Bit The Bullet - Katadyn Gravidyn Water Filter [Archive] - Glock Talk

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wjv
04-01-2008, 15:47
I already have:
1 PUR Scout camping filter with multiple spare filters
1 MSR miniworks camping filter with multiple spare filters

The PUR & MSR filters both have four level of purification An intake hose filter; A 0.2 micron filter; a carbon filter; and a iodine matrix to kill viruses. If I remember correctly I once calculated that I have enough replacement PUR and MSR filters, and spare parts to purify about 8,000 gallons. .

But that would be a LOT of pumping. . . .

I also started stocking those 7 gallon blue Aqua-cubes from Walmart. I had planned on getting 21 of them (3 weeks worth of water), but they ain't cheap! With tax their about $10 each. So after getting ten of them I decided that I'd be better off with a good gravity water filter.

Went to Moosejaw.com. They had them listed for $169.95. Added in the 15% discount code of MAXIMUS, opted for the free (but slower) shipping, and my total was $144.45. . . Or about the price of 15 blue water cubes. . .

So now I have 5 gallons of bleach; 70 gallons of water in blue cubes; 40 gallons in the HW tank; 40 gallons in the camper (most of the year); 8,000 gallons via hand pump camping Purifiers (will kill viruses); and 20,000-39,000 gallons via the Gravidyn. So I finally feel like I have a reasonable handle on the water situation. . Thankfully I have two sources of water within 150 yard of the house. A running stream part of the year, and a large duck pond full year round. I still plan to add bleach to the water after running it through the Katadyn Gravidyn, just to make sure.

In a month or two I'll go back to Moosejaw and order 3 more candles for the Katadyn.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i303/bcvojak/RVNet/Gravidyn.jpg

I still want to buy a CZ rifle. . :crying: But I needed a better water filter more than I needed another rifle.

Garlic
04-01-2008, 16:01
I still want to buy a CZ rifle. . :crying: But I needed a better water filter more than I needed another rifle.

Smart man.:thumbsup:

TacticalRecon
04-01-2008, 16:23
Smart man.:thumbsup:

+2 :wavey:

ToyotaMan
04-01-2008, 17:00
A gravity filter is really cheap for what you get and it is an essential piece of equipment to have. Make sure you use it now to make sure everything works properly, and get some spare filters for it.

Get some 55 gallon barrels and put one under your gutters downspouts. Get enough of them and have them stored away in a shed or something so that you can replenish your stored water supply with the rain in case you couldn't run your well, or city water stopped working.

Or in case your nearest stream or lake or pond got contaminated with something.

LongGun1
04-01-2008, 22:49
In a month or two I'll go back to Moosejaw and order 3 more candles for the Katadyn.



Good Move on getting the Katadyn! :thumbsup:


If I were you....I would also consider getting 3 spare Ceradyn elements..

(due to their longevity)

.. for a worst case SHTF.


BTW....I would not add chlorine post filtration....yuk! :puking:

YMMV

HouGlock
04-01-2008, 23:00
LG1, in another post you talked about using the ceradyn with a charcoal filter after the ceradyn to get the best of both worlds.

Do you have any additional info or links on how this could be done?

LongGun1
04-01-2008, 23:15
LG1, in another post you talked about using the ceradyn with a charcoal filter after the ceradyn to get the best of both worlds.

Do you have any additional info or links on how this could be done?

http://www.rei.com/product/709006


To refill the Carbon filter...

You can either buy these Katadyn
Carbon Cartridge Replacement Packs

http://www.archerymarket.com/store/product/2616/Katadyn%3Cbr%3E-Carbon-Cartridge-Repl-Pack/

..or buy it in bulk http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4268&cmpid=03csegb&ref=3312&subref=AA&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=0111079000000

.or make activated carbon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activated_carbon

http://www.pinoynegosyo.blogspot.com/2006/10/how-to-make-activated-carbon.html

wjv
04-01-2008, 23:55
If I were you....I would also consider getting 3 spare Ceradyn elements..

(due to their longevity)

.. for a worst case SHTF.

AquaRain makes a similar filter (with carbon) and makes the following statement: "Element life, per single element: ceramic, about 2,500 - 10,000 gallons; carbon, about 3,000 - 5,000 gallons. If the carbon wears out before the ceramic, replace the elements if you need carbon; or, if you don't need carbon, keep using them as long as the ceramic is good."

Don't see why the Gravidyn wouldn't work the same. I think it is basically the same filter as the Ceradyn, except with a carbon core. So when the carbon is DOA, your left with a Ceradyn system.

Am I wrong in this assumption? It there a problem that the once depleted, the carbon could become contaminated and make things worse?

My only concern about adding bleach pre-filtering is that it would add an extra strain on the carbon.

I do have a couple of these: http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm?skunum=18478&src=SRQB lying around in my camper. They are suppose to be good for ~2,000 gallons. I was thinking of jury rigging them as a post filter / post bleach process. Walmart also sells them in their RV section.

I also need to order a couple hole plugs so I can run the filter on 1, 2 or 3 filter sticks. With a family of 4, I could (in theory) just use one candle filter at a time for a ~8 gallon per day production rate.

HouGlock
04-01-2008, 23:58
Thanks buddy! As always, great info, I love finding ways to extend the usefullness of my preps and the usefullness of my $$$!

There's always something new to learn here

LongGun1
04-02-2008, 03:37
Am I wrong in this assumption? It there a problem that the once depleted, the carbon could become contaminated and make things worse?


Read this page...

http://books.google.com/books?id=0YhymbzXAukC&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=carbon+filter+bacterial+growth&source=web&ots=w2kFO4BsIA&sig=k7E0DDZfUQp0J2YNYRw3qU9065g&hl=en


..and this one.. http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/WQ/WQ-13.html

AC filters have a limited lifetime. Eventually, the surface of the AC becomes filled with adsorbed pollutants, and no further treatment occurs. 'Break-through' takes place when pollutants break through the filter and emerge in the treated water. Contaminant concentrations in the treated water can possibly be even higher than those in the untreated water. The cartridge then needs to be replaced. Knowing when breakthrough will occur and when to replace the cartridge is a major problem with AC treatment.



..and this... http://www.filterswater.com/water-purification/carbon-filter.htm

Carbon Filters for Dechlorination - Food and Beverage Industries
Grannular Activated Carbon is a reliable means to remove disinfectant residuals - specifically chlorine and chloramine by-products. Carbon provides very high capacity for chlorine - roughly 1 pound of chlorine per pound of carbon. While carbon has high capacity for chlorine removal, at the same time the carbon bed is a breeding ground for bacteria.

We always recommend that carbon filters be followed by Ultraviolet Units to prevent bacterial growth downstream.

In addition, we also recommend that there be a downstream particle filter to remove the inevitable carbon fines coming from the bed of carbon in a Tank Based carbon filter system.

Operationally, to minimize the chance for bacterial growth, we recommend that the carbon vessel be backwashed every 3 to 7 days to minimize the chance for bacterial growth in the carbon filter bed. By backwashing frequently, bacteria will have less chance of becoming established in the carbon filter bed.




For longevity, health & cost concerns..

I would recommend a carbon filter unit seperate from the ceramic unit

and/or

..having a carbon media that is replaceable.


If you decide on a "Ceramic/Carbon Combination unit"..

..I would recommend a unit like the Katadyn Combi http://www.survivalequipment.net/katadyn_combi.html

..that have replaceable activated carbon media.


That way you get the full life span of the expensive Ceramic..

..as you can replace the inexpensive activated carbon media when needed..

..without being forced to dispose of both. :)

Also....when the output from a ceramic element is reduced due to the pores getting..a simple cleaning will do..

..vs having to dispose of a combination element that gets clogged due to bacteriological grow-thru.

Also the clock starts ticking on the life of a carbon filter after first usage..

..even if you don't use it for months afterward. :sad:


Those are some of the reasons I gravitate to the Katadyn Ceradyn "ceramic only" filter elements..

..instead of the Katadyn Gravidyn or Berkey Super Sterasyl "combo filter" elements.

(Just because an combi element has silver impregnation to inhibit bacteriological grow-thru...

..does not mean it is 100% successful!

No need chancing a serious "health issue"...especially during a SHTF!)


Also...post filtration, you might consider UV lighting instead of Chlorine..

I have a large stock of UV LEDs put back for this purpose.


BTW...I was a Katadyn Dealer at one time..

..& still prefer their filters for many reasons.

And though I invest a sizable amount of money in preps..

..I try to get the "Best Bang for the Buck" (ROI).

HouGlock
04-02-2008, 09:14
LG1, this is great info. If I could indulge you for a couple questions?

If I run water through a Katadyn Ceradyn, I was planning to run it through the AC afterwards, but the article you referenced recommended ultraviolet as well as a particle filter after the AC. Would it be best then to run water through the AC first, or to run water through the Ceradyn a second time?

Also, how do you set up the ultaviolet to work? Trying to understand how exactly to expose the water to the ultraviolet light.

I really like the reference talking about dechlorination as that is what I will be needing to do.

kirgi08
04-02-2008, 09:28
I just saw this and thought it might be useful down the line STS.A Katadyn MK6 Desalinator for $799.I don't need/want one,but I'm sure that there are some coastal folks that will.I read/saw this in SMGs montly flier.'08.

wjv
04-02-2008, 09:59
Thanks LG1! Great info. Looks like my next set will be 3 of the Ceradyn filters. I'll also pick up a couple liters of the AC that you referenced earlier. It's pretty neat that with these types of filters you can switch out the elements to configure the system either way.

I think I'm going to set up the filter in my house and just use every day, and keep a Ceradyn set for the long term emergency situation.

mitchshrader
04-02-2008, 17:46
Thanks for getting the good info in a lump, LG1, for *at least* the 2nd time.

I got serious Katadyn envy right now. I coulda done that, and bought .22's instead, and don't feel smart for it.

Hope when I DO get to it, I get that good a deal. Cheapest I've heard of, anytime lately.

Main thing has kept me from buying one I never saw a deal that tingled my cheapskate button..

LongGun1
04-02-2008, 19:40
I coulda done that, and bought .22's instead, and don't feel smart for it.



Actually...the way .22 LR has been going up lately..

..you might have come out ahead doing it your way! :)


Hey...does prepping nowadays..

..ever feel like one of those disaster movies...like Dante's Peak..

..where you are just one step ahead of the s**t storm? :rofl:

LongGun1
04-02-2008, 19:57
LG1, this is great info. If I could indulge you for a couple questions?

If I run water through a Katadyn Ceradyn, I was planning to run it through the AC afterwards, but the article you referenced recommended ultraviolet as well as a particle filter after the AC. Would it be best then to run water through the AC first, or to run water through the Ceradyn a second time?

Also, how do you set up the ultaviolet to work? Trying to understand how exactly to expose the water to the ultraviolet light.

I really like the reference talking about dechlorination as that is what I will be needing to do.


How you stage your filtration is dependent on your needs.


One way...is a Pre-filter 1st (if needed for heavy particulate matter)

..then Carbon element..

..then Ceramic..


In my case....I plan to have the UV LED in a cistern..

.. where the water is circulated from near the bottom..

..& is fed into the top to aerate the water..

The UV is to address any bacteria, virus and cysts that may be in the water.

The long lived UV LEDs can be parallel configed into lighting strips that can be submerged if needed.

Also...I do not need to add chlorine if using this method!

fatboy148
04-03-2008, 06:02
Congrats on your new filter! Now that you are in the Moosejaw system, you will get emails with % off codes at different times of the year. 15% seems to be the standard discount, which is good because their water filter prices are priced less than the other suppliers already. They will go 20% a few time a year also. The best one I have seen was for 25% off any one item. (The Gravidyn was like $118.00 at one point). I think that if you are going to purchase extra filters, you may be better off to get another whole filter set up, complete. Doing it this way you have all new parts including those that may fail such as the water spout. The bad thing is that it will take up more room in you storage area. The best part of doing it this way is it is usally less expensive to order the entire unit instead of just the replacement filters, go figure! If you want to play, try using the code: supersale in the check out box, most of the time it will give a 15% discount. Right now the Ceradyn has a $199.95 list price, on sale for $179.95, with the supersale discount code it is $152.95, and that is a shipped price. At this time the coupon will not work with the Gravidyn though, it is trial and error. The water filters are the only thing that I have ever purchased from this company, everything else is just too stylish for me! You will enjoy doing business with these people, here, the customer can do no wrong! Too bad more companies don't have the same philosophy. Check their prices vs those on the net, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. I hope this helps.

mitchshrader
04-03-2008, 07:52
i've been surfing the avalanche since last year, LG1, and havn't felt dumb about it. one step ahead? heck, i'd like to HOPE i'm still a step ahead. more like a half step and shrinking..

the folks who don't see it as fairly grim ain't got my perspective. i don't think the wheels have come off, but i'm real sure that thwop thwop thwop sound ain't good.

i have no reason to think that claimed near term improvements aren't big lies. interesting times.

BigFatDog
04-03-2008, 09:12
i have no reason to think that claimed near term improvements aren't big lies. interesting times.

They usually are. Perception always trumps reality.

Just make sure that while you stay ahead that you aren't raising Gazelles. I went through a selection process a few years ago. I got picked a lot of "faster" people didn't. I asked the head honcho, "why me." I'll always remember what he said, although probably not exactly the way he said it. The rose colored glasses of time...

"They're Gazelles. When they stumble, fall and get mixed with the pack they get crushed or eaten. For tough jobs you want the guy who has been at the back and had to scratch and claw his way to the lead. It doesn't matter that he finished there. It's the fact that the knows the rough terrain and what the view looks like in the front. He'll get the job done. He wont quit. That's what matters most"

Oh, and nice filter bcvojak

wjv
04-04-2008, 23:37
I think that if you are going to purchase extra filters, you may be better off to get another whole filter set up, complete. Doing it this way you have all new parts including those that may fail such as the water spout. The bad thing is that it will take up more room in you storage area. The best part of doing it this way is it is usually less expensive to order the entire unit instead of just the replacement filters, go figure!

Your right! It's literally a $4.33 difference!

mitchshrader
04-05-2008, 01:00
i have, from experience, a GREAT appreciation for the potential of random clots of humanity.

as a bunch, we sit and whine till we have a DARN good reason to get busy, fat and sloppy and worthless is almost a natural condition barring any habits of concern or dire need....

but i've watched a crowd of worthless layabouts, (to all appearances). . turn into motivated volunteers, in the face of a grass fire once, and a forest fire once..

folks who didn't look at all useful, nor even claim to be useful...

humans will shock heck out of ya by what they can, and WILL do, given enough motive and enough immediacy..

oh sure, sometimes that turns into a mob, with poor leadership, or none.. but give em a spark plug and that engine will fire up.

part of the reason i chase bargains so hard is i try every single time to consider what would i need for a crowd. . IF i had 40 strangers as dependents, what makes em a functional group? What PREVENTS them from being a functional group?

Water is right at the top of the list, in quantity. I'm wondering what might be done to gain the most gallons per hour in an off-the-shelf system that'd scale up.. feasibly.

what gives you 100 gallons a day, SAFE, for babies.. in one step? Affordably..

wjv
04-05-2008, 19:08
i have, from experience, a GREAT appreciation for the potential of random clots of humanity.

as a bunch, we sit and whine till we have a DARN good reason to get busy, fat and sloppy and worthless is almost a natural condition barring any habits of concern or dire need....

but i've watched a crowd of worthless layabouts, (to all appearances). . turn into motivated volunteers, in the face of a grass fire once, and a forest fire once..

folks who didn't look at all useful, nor even claim to be useful...

humans will shock heck out of ya by what they can, and WILL do, given enough motive and enough immediacy..

oh sure, sometimes that turns into a mob, with poor leadership, or none.. but give em a spark plug and that engine will fire up.

part of the reason i chase bargains so hard is i try every single time to consider what would i need for a crowd. . IF i had 40 strangers as dependents, what makes em a functional group? What PREVENTS them from being a functional group?

Water is right at the top of the list, in quantity. I'm wondering what might be done to gain the most gallons per hour in an off-the-shelf system that'd scale up.. feasibly.

what gives you 100 gallons a day, SAFE, for babies.. in one step? Affordably..



Crown Berkey®
Stainless Water Purifier
with Black Berkey®
Purifying Elements


650 gallons per day. . . Also available in lesser flow rates.

http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/berkey_light_big_berkey_water_filter_british_berkefeld_portable_purifier.aspx

wjv
04-10-2008, 21:48
Got It!! Only 9 days with free shipping. . Gotta love MooseJaw.

Haven't tried it yet, but check all the filters to make sure that they were all in one piece. MooseJaw double boxed it so everything arrived A-OK!

urbansurvival
09-01-2011, 20:03
Wow, I know this is a really old thread, but surprisingly I found it based on a google search as I am dealing with the exact same questions.

I came across the Gravidyn, thought it was excellent, planned to purchase one, then I came across the Ceradyn. I didn't like the idea of having to replace filters after 6 months with the Gravidyn. It is totally not cost effective to have to replace 3 very expensive filters because the activated carbon portion is not replaceable. This really is crap - it's like signing up for cable on a special and then having them hike the price after 6 months!

I am interested in the Ceradyn for bug out/preparedness/survival situations where creek water might have to be used. To complicate matters, the closest portion of the creek is downstream from a popular swimming hole and is known to have ecoli (of course in a time of survival I don't know how much recreation would be happening or how long ecoli survives). Well, I suppose the 2 micron Ceradyn would catch the Ecoli anyway...so I digress.

But also in my part of the country there is a lot of mining and of course everywhere these days there is a lot of pollution. So now I am missing the activated carbon option. I looked up the links on this thread, but the inline Katadyn filter someone linked to REI specifies a .25 inch? intake hose. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Ceradyn has a spigot type outflow. Not only that, but how in the world would you generate water pressure to push the water through the filter? I really wouldn't want to be hand pumping with a Katadyn Hiker pro!

Any ideas on EASY fail safe ways to obtain a post-Ceradyn activated carbon filter with a decent flow rate? Let me also say, I am not quite 100% comfortable buying supposedly food grade quality activated carbon on eBAY and making my own filter, but I also don't want some complicated contraption that can fail in a survival situation. I wish cheaperthandirt.com had a big activated carbon filter in one of those 5 gallon buckets!

So far in my google searches I have not found a cheap decent size carbon only filter that is portable for survival type situations. They do have ones that fit under the sink for residential, but in a survival situation, I think your options for obtaining water pressure would be limited!

Any further advice, guys?

Thank You