CCF and Failure to Extract [Archive] - Glock Talk

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MO Shooter
04-18-2008, 07:09
Hey Guys,

I have used the search function to nauseum and tried everything I can think of. Please help.

Problem: I two stainless CCF Raceframes with a two different G34 slides on them. About once in 50 rounds the guns decide to give me a failure to eject/extract. As everybody knows that does not help win a match. They have pretty much always done this but I did have it band-aided for a while (old style locking block and .40 bearing). Gun runs perfect on the plastic frames. When the problem occurs the spent case is left in the chamber with a new round pushing up against it.

Gun Setup:

Stainless CCF Raceframe with the new style CCF locking block

G34 slide with stock G34 barrel

13-17 lb recoil spring-I usually run 13lb ISMI, but have tested others looking for the cure. Stock plastic guide rod, modified to be uncaptured. The gun definately goes to lockup.

LCI extractor for 9mm, have tried many different 9mm and .40's

Spring loaded bearing from .40 (forget about it extracting with a 9mm bearing)

New extractor rods and springs

Factory and reloads. Reloads are 100% reliable with the plastic frames. 3.8 gr tightgroup with a 124 gr MG HP set at 1.115.

Brass is range pickup, mostly once fired.

Magazines: Have many running from brand new to old as dirt (10,000 or so rounds), does'nt change a thing. Feed lips measure .335-.338 with the brand new magazines on the .338 side.

Gun clean or dirty really does'nt matter still FTE's.

My hypothesis:
1. The magazines have alot of wiggle when inserted into the gun. Could this wiggle and movement be causing the problem?
2. Could the locking block be a little high? I noticed a small amount of peening on the leading edge of the locking block. I removed a very small amount of material (basically polish) from the bridge to smooth the area on one of the frames to no effect.


Thanks in advance. I with your help I can get this thing running.

Jager1147
04-18-2008, 07:40
Hey Guys,

I have used the search function to nauseum and tried everything I can think of. Please help.

Problem: I two stainless CCF Raceframes with a two different G34 slides on them. About once in 50 rounds the guns decide to give me a failure to eject/extract. As everybody knows that does not help win a match. They have pretty much always done this but I did have it band-aided for a while (old style locking block and .40 bearing). Gun runs perfect on the plastic frames. When the problem occurs the spent case is left in the chamber with a new round pushing up against it.

Gun Setup:

Stainless CCF Raceframe with the new style CCF locking block

G34 slide with stock G34 barrel

13-17 lb recoil spring-I usually run 13lb ISMI, but have tested others looking for the cure. Stock plastic guide rod, modified to be uncaptured. The gun definately goes to lockup.

LCI extractor for 9mm, have tried many different 9mm and .40's

Spring loaded bearing from .40 (forget about it extracting with a 9mm bearing)

New extractor rods and springs

Factory and reloads. Reloads are 100% reliable with the plastic frames. 3.8 gr tightgroup with a 124 gr MG HP set at 1.115.

Brass is range pickup, mostly once fired.

Magazines: Have many running from brand new to old as dirt (10,000 or so rounds), does'nt change a thing. Feed lips measure .335-.338 with the brand new magazines on the .338 side.

Gun clean or dirty really does'nt matter still FTE's.

My hypothesis:
1. The magazines have alot of wiggle when inserted into the gun. Could this wiggle and movement be causing the problem?
2. Could the locking block be a little high? I noticed a small amount of peening on the leading edge of the locking block. I removed a very small amount of material (basically polish) from the bridge to smooth the area on one of the frames to no effect.


Thanks in advance. I with your help I can get this thing running.

Just a little more info, what gen G34 slides? The stock spring loaded bearing does not run at all, or much worse? make sure your extractor is compatible with your gen slide if you've changed it. http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/extractors.html

MO Shooter
04-18-2008, 08:41
The slide is 3rd gen. Extractor(s) are 9mm proper to the slide. The 9mm bearing takes the failure rate to 1 in 10-15. Thanks in advance.

Jager1147
04-18-2008, 11:37
Tough one. Barrel too tight to locking block? Sounds like somehow the extractor is hopping over the case rim during unlocking, and you've already increased extractor tension by using the .40 bearing? To make my 9mm open gun run on a CCF frame, I've added a shim behind the spring to increase extractor tension. Would you give this a try and report back? Also, I'm sure you did this but make sure chambers are smooth and clean, and try different factory ammo's - many times gun problems are ammo or magazine related. I don't think the mags are to blame here.

MO Shooter
04-18-2008, 12:30
Jager, thanks for your response. The .40 bearing is a little longer than the 9mm bearing which results in increased extractor pressure. With the old style CCF locking block the .40 bearing was the hot ticket. I also think that the extractor is skipping the case. I will try and make a shim as suggested. The chamber is smooth and clean. My ammo will run all day with the same slide assembly on a plastic frame. The ammo makes right at 130pf.

MO Shooter
04-18-2008, 15:29
I fashioned a shim out of the interior part of a ball point pen. I made the OAL to about .030 of spring lockup. I ended up using a .130 shim with the 9mm bearing. The .40 bearing was too big to get the cover on the slide. Just simply for giggles I ran the gun with a shock buff (generally I don't) and it ran 12 shots and FTE. I took the shock buff out and finished the mag + 2 more with no problems. We will have to see what happens when I can blast more rounds. Thanks again for your help

B+Shooter
04-18-2008, 18:24
CCF no flex!!!

MO Shooter
04-20-2008, 12:16
Shot a IDPA match yesterday with the shimmed bearing and a brand new extractor. No failures! I guess that I will have to see how long this "fix" lasts. Thanks for the help.

Jager1147
04-21-2008, 14:14
MO Shooter,

Glad to see you're up and running. Please keep us posted, especially on the buffers.

jager

VN350X10
04-21-2008, 21:43
scrap the metal frames......

GLOCK = polymer

1911 = metal

What part of this equasion doesn't seem to apply ?

I've heard many complaints from shooters using the CCF frames, all are reliability related.
I've also heard of the frames not being machined correctly & requiring gunsmith work to even go together & fire.

Like Dustin Hoffman was told in "The Graduate"......"PLASTICS" !

uncle albert

kaapo
08-14-2008, 06:47
Tough one. Barrel too tight to locking block? Sounds like somehow the extractor is hopping over the case rim during unlocking, and you've already increased extractor tension by using the .40 bearing? To make my 9mm open gun run on a CCF frame, I've added a shim behind the spring to increase extractor tension. Would you give this a try and report back? Also, I'm sure you did this but make sure chambers are smooth and clean, and try different factory ammo's - many times gun problems are ammo or magazine related. I don't think the mags are to blame here.


I think this is main problem in extract,my ccf runs perfectly when i make taller spring bearing.When i tight slide and frame cap extract problems start instantly!

graycrait
08-14-2008, 21:49
I have a 2nd Gen G17 setup on a CCF steel frame. It is so damn accurate it amazes me! It is also dead reliable with any ammo. How long will the frame hold out? I don't have a clue but it is fun while it is lasting. I just shoot a hole in paper and use the hole for a target, it is so fun. Now if I could only learn how to draw and change mags;)

I also put non LCI extractors in my LWD G34 frame that rides on the spare 2nd Gen G17 frame and it works all the time every time, along with many other aftermarket parts.

However, the CCF is the apple of my eye. It is so boringly accurate and reliable I ended up converting a .38 Super to 9mm as a diversion.

Craig in Clarksville, TN

BobTorre
05-18-2010, 15:53
I fashioned a shim out of the interior part of a ball point pen. I made the OAL to about .030 of spring lockup. I ended up using a .130 shim with the 9mm bearing. The .40 bearing was too big to get the cover on the slide. Just simply for giggles I ran the gun with a shock buff (generally I don't) and it ran 12 shots and FTE. I took the shock buff out and finished the mag + 2 more with no problems. We will have to see what happens when I can blast more rounds. Thanks again for your help

Jefe,

Can you please post a picture of what the shim looks like. Or more details on how you made it. I have a ccf frame for my glock 17. The lower is still the original poly, but I am getting a lot of FTE and I am sure I am holding it with Guapo strength. The shim idea seems doable I just don't have a clue of what it is supposed to look like or where you placed it in the spring, front back ...? In front of the :dancingbanana: bearing

BobTorre
05-31-2010, 00:12
Tough one. Barrel too tight to locking block? Sounds like somehow the extractor is hopping over the case rim during unlocking, and you've already increased extractor tension by using the .40 bearing? To make my 9mm open gun run on a CCF frame, I've added a shim behind the spring to increase extractor tension. Would you give this a try and report back? Also, I'm sure you did this but make sure chambers are smooth and clean, and try different factory ammo's - many times gun problems are ammo or magazine related. I don't think the mags are to blame here.

Senor,

can you pm yourstruly with any instruction on how to create such magnificent and much needed shim. I am getting a plethora of FTE... and I am using your kit...:dunno:

BobTorre
05-31-2010, 18:21
Nada...? Ay Dios mio....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQFEY9RIRJA

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ampdog
06-05-2010, 07:23
I would use the CCF guide rod and spring. Also, my experience is that the recoil buffer stops it from running very well too. Not sure if you are using one, but I was because I figured it would be good protection for the frame and slide (SS Caspian) and it definately gave me problems.

Also, check out this link for some other discussions on the system.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69241&st=0

Jager1147
06-26-2010, 13:01
BobTorre,

PM me or call me. I'll describe what's done to help the CCF extraction issue.

BobTorre
07-10-2010, 16:02
Senores,,, I got a non-lci 9mm extractor and a Spring Load Bearing for a .40 caliber (the white one) and presto! Problem is gone.

Thank me.

BobTorre
07-10-2010, 16:03
.... it's like the petals of a flower