45gap and IDPA ???

[MarkTX]

I've been eyeing a compact 45gap Glock at the local gunshop and started thinking it might be a nice addition.

But I didn't notice any mention of this newer round in the IDPA rules, did I just miss it ? I was wondering if it could be shot in CDP or are they demanding only 45acp ?

[sidewinder6]

Like the 21, you could shoot in any of the divisions. Well, OK not the revolver ones. You would have to download to the appropriate division.

[Justin1911]

What does the rulebook say? I couldn't find mine. If it says 45 caliber pistol then I think you would be ok to shoot the GAP in CDP. If if says 45 ACP pistol then no GAP. I have not known anyone to shoot it in local matches yet.

[8Point203]

From the IDPA rulebook.
The firearms are grouped into five (5) divisions: 1) Custom Defensive
Pistol (.45ACP semi-automatics only); 2) Enhanced Service Pistol (9mm
(9x19) or larger caliber semi-automatics); 3) Stock Service Pistol
(9mm (9x19) or larger caliber double action, double action only, or
safe action semi-automatics); 4) Enhanced Service Revolver (.38
caliber or larger double action revolvers); and 5) Stock Service Revolver
(.38 caliber or larger double action revolvers).

To my reading it would not be allowed in the CDP class but allowable in all others. except revolver of course.

[8Point203]

The firearms are grouped into five (5) divisions: 1) Custom Defensive
Pistol (.45ACP semi-automatics only); 2) Enhanced Service Pistol (9mm
(9x19) or larger caliber semi-automatics); 3) Stock Service Pistol
(9mm (9x19) or larger caliber double action, double action only, or
safe action semi-automatics); 4) Enhanced Service Revolver (.38
caliber or larger double action revolvers); and 5) Stock Service Revolver
(.38 caliber or larger double action revolvers).

[Jim Watson]

IDPA CDP is .45 ACP ONLY.
No GAPS, no Supers, no Rowlands, no Win Mag, no .50 GI.

[Bogey]

You're stuck with SSP or ESP. As Jim and others have noted, CDP is .45 only.

Just a question though. Why would you want to shoot GAP in any shooting sport with ammo as expensive as it is? OK, if you reload, not too bad I guess. But you'll end up losing more brass than you'll care to.


Someone just told me today that 9mm is running $220/K. :shocked::shocked::shocked: I used to pay that for 45 two years ago.:shocked:

[MarkTX]

...Just a question though. Why would you want to shoot GAP in any shooting sport with ammo as expensive as it is? OK, if you reload, not too bad I guess. But you'll end up losing more brass than you'll care to...


Well since as this thread has informed me 45gap won't fly in the CDP division of IDPA -then it looses some of its appeal. The idea behing my OP was having a G19 frame size Glock that covered all the IDPA semi-auto divisions.

[GRR]

Well since as this thread has informed me 45gap won't fly in the CDP division of IDPA -then it looses some of its appeal. The idea behing my OP was having a G19 frame size Glock that covered all the IDPA semi-auto divisions.

Several pistols won't cover all divisions. The 45 GAP can compete in SSP, ESP and even ESR.

[Joe D]

Yeah, we don't allow no stinkin .45 ACP wannabe in CDP. A .45 GAP is just a .45 ACP Jr. Talk to us again when you grow up.

[engineer151515]

Yeah, we don't allow no stinkin .45 ACP wannabe in CDP. A .45 GAP is just a .45 ACP Jr. Talk to us again when you grow up.

GAP is just ACP without all the hot air - dead space in the cartridge.

Hot air. You'll hear a lot of hot air when 45GAP is discussed.

[HighVelocity]

Buy a S&W 625 instead. Then you can shoot 45GAP in ESR against guys shooting the same gun with 45acp ammo.

[WellArmedSheep]

Someone just told me today that 9mm is running $220/K. :shocked::shocked::shocked: I used to pay that for 45 two years ago.:shocked:

Around here it's about $190/K...still double what it was two years ago.

[gary newport]

IDPA CDP is the ONLY semi-auto division in either IDPA or USPSA that is limited to one specific CALIBER. I gues Bill Wilson wanted to build a wall around a safe little sandbox where folks could play with their over-priced custom 1911s! :whistling: (A G38 would be a good choice for both CC and CDP -- were it permitted in the latter!)

Mr. Wilson, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL! :soap:

[Jim Watson]

Hey, it could have been worse, Bill might have defined WDP and you must shoot a Wilson gun.

[freeidaho]

IDPA CDP is the ONLY semi-auto division in either IDPA or USPSA that is limited to one specific CALIBER. I gues Bill Wilson wanted to build a wall around a safe little sandbox where folks could play with their over-priced custom 1911s! :whistling: (A G38 would be a good choice for both CC and CDP -- were it permitted in the latter!)

Mr. Wilson, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL! :soap:

Nice rant, but CDP is not limited to any brand or design of pistol. My G21 works fine in CDP as did my Para's. I see lots of Sigs, Glocks, XDs, and of course 1911's in CDP. Seems pretty balanced to me.

kr

[gary newport]

Hey, it could have been worse, Bill might have defined WDP and you must shoot a Wilson gun.

That thought may have crossed his mind....
:whistling:

But, since Bill did leave that little loophole in the CDP rules, I'll be shooting a Glock21SF there!

[gary newport]

Nice rant, but CDP is not limited to any brand or design of pistol. My G21 works fine in CDP as did my Para's. I see lots of Sigs, Glocks, XDs, and of course 1911's in CDP. Seems pretty balanced to me.

kr

"Any brand or design of pistol"...as long as it is chambered in .45 ACP! Don't you find it odd that only this ONE division is caliber-specific? Since the .45 GAP tosses the SAME bullets at the SAME velocities as .45 ACP, what exactly is the rationale for NOT permitting it to compete in CDP?

[Jim Watson]

I can't shoot my Wilson at GSSF, and I'm not whining.

[5glock]

"Any brand or design of pistol"...as long as it is chambered in .45 ACP! Don't you find it odd that only this ONE division is caliber-specific? Since the .45 GAP tosses the SAME bullets at the SAME velocities as .45 ACP, what exactly is the rationale for NOT permitting it to compete in CDP?
Read the rules. It states 45ACP. What's the rationale with arguing with the rules???

[gary newport]

I can't shoot my Wilson at GSSF, and I'm not whining.

Yep, Glock sponsors GSSF and requires all pistols to be Glocks. I suppose, by the same token, I should expect a manufacturer of custom 1911s to insist on a division, if not an entire competition devoted to custom 1911s.

Except that isn't what happened. The pistol doesn't have to be a 1911, custom or otherwise, to compete in CDP, as long as it is chambered in .45 ACP! This doesn't make a lick of sense!

I seem to recall reading that, early on, CDP wasn't limited to just .45 ACP. Any truth to that?

[gary newport]

Read the rules. It states 45ACP. What's the rationale with arguing with the rules???

I expect rules to make sense. Does separating Major and Minor PF make sense? Sure. Does restricting a division to a single caliber? Nope!

[sidewinder6]

What does the rulebook say? I couldn't find mine. If it says 45 caliber pistol then I think you would be ok to shoot the GAP in CDP. If if says 45 ACP pistol then no GAP. I have not known anyone to shoot it in local matches yet.


I apoligize for the error. I didnt re-read the rule book before I posted and only considered the caliber. I forgot about the protectionisim. :rofl:

[5glock]

I expect rules to make sense. Does separating Major and Minor PF make sense? Sure. Does restricting a division to a single caliber? Nope!

It's still the rules that we all play by though. So you play by the rules or find another game. Want some rules? Try USPSA.

[gary newport]

It's still the rules that we all play by though. So you play by the rules or find another game. Want some rules? Try USPSA.

Rules can be changed...sometimes.

[5glock]

Rules can be changed...sometimes.

So go for it and good luck.

[Joe D]

Just wait for the new rule book. I predict CDP will be for single stack, single action 1911 autos only.

[Bogey]

I wasn't around IDPA when it started back in ought 6...but I understand that it was a 1911 only division at the time. (single action .45s) It wasn't until later that other mfgrs weaseled in. Can anyone say "sponsors"?

[Jim Watson]

From the Official Rule Book Effective 10-26-96 (I don't know if there were an earlier one.)

"Custom Defensive Pistol Division is intended to offer a place in competition for shooters using the various "practical" custom 1911 style 10mm/.45 single stack pistols while still allowing shooters using the various hi-capacity pistols such as the Para-Ordnance, STI/SVI, and Glock 20/21 to compete on equal ground."

10mm was still in the '99 rule book and is out of the '05 rules. I don't know if it was in the LGB, mine has wandered off.

But a G21 was ok in CDP from the first year of IDPA.

I guess a bedroll lawyer would point out that the specification was for ".45" and not ".45 ACP."

I would not really mind if CDP still allowed 10mm or had picked up .45 GAP or any other cartridge of factory ballistics comparable to .45 ACP. I just think getting all indignant and wanting to rewrite the rules to suit your tastes is nye kultoorni.

[MarkTX]

"Any brand or design of pistol"...as long as it is chambered in .45 ACP! Don't you find it odd that only this ONE division is caliber-specific? Since the .45 GAP tosses the SAME bullets at the SAME velocities as .45 ACP, what exactly is the rationale for NOT permitting it to compete in CDP?

This was my thought exactly. I mean when you make a division built around a caliber -why not make it built around a power factor or bullet design or whatever. It does seem obvious the intent was to prevent those 1911s from getting shown up by some lowly Glock 17 :rofl:

[gary newport]

From the Official Rule Book Effective 10-26-96 (I don't know if there were an earlier one.)

"Custom Defensive Pistol Division is intended to offer a place in competition for shooters using the various "practical" custom 1911 style 10mm/.45 single stack pistols while still allowing shooters using the various hi-capacity pistols such as the Para-Ordnance, STI/SVI, and Glock 20/21 to compete on equal ground."

10mm was still in the '99 rule book and is out of the '05 rules. I don't know if it was in the LGB, mine has wandered off.

But a G21 was ok in CDP from the first year of IDPA.

I guess a bedroll lawyer would point out that the specification was for ".45" and not ".45 ACP."

I would not really mind if CDP still allowed 10mm or had picked up .45 GAP or any other cartridge of factory ballistics comparable to .45 ACP. I just think getting all indignant and wanting to rewrite the rules to suit your tastes is nye kultoorni.

Jim, I didn't want the rules rewritten for "taste" reasons, just consistency and logic. Right now, fans of the .45 GAP (yes, they DO exist) are denied the "level playing field" of shooting against other Major PF .45 pistols in CDP and must play with the 9 minimeter crowd. That just ain't logical or fair!

A G38, for example, holds exactly the right number of rounds for CDP, can make Major without breaking a sweat, puts the same size bullet holes in the target as a .45 ACP and is an eminently concealable and lightweight weapon (in keeping with the "carry" orientation of IDPA). I would certainly like the option of using my G38 in CDP and I hope the rule is changed to allow what makes perfect sense. In the meantime, I'll shoot my G21SF (or G30SF, when I get it) in CDP

[Jim Watson]

Since they took the amply powerful 10mm and .400 Cor-Bon out of CDP, leaving nothing but .45 ACP, I doubt they will suddenly shift to a form of bore diameter consistency that will lead to adding GAP. It strains my logic, too, but I don't really care. You could not run after me fast enough to give me a GAP or a Glock in any other non-9mm chambering.

[GlockRik]

Just wait for the new rule book. I predict CDP will be for single stack, single action 1911 autos only.

Funny how SS is O.K. in USPSA, but there will be no end to the howling if IDPA were to institute such a class.



Originally Posted by gary newport
I expect rules to make sense. Does separating Major and Minor PF make sense? Sure. Does restricting a division to a single caliber? Nope!

Rules don't have to make sense, they just need to be the same for everyone. One big advantage to coming up with your own game is you get to make the rules. IDPA is a great game that I enjoy a lot. If BW uses it to his advantage, more power to him.

Rik

[gary newport]

Rules don't have to make sense, they just need to be the same for everyone. One big advantage to coming up with your own game is you get to make the rules. IDPA is a great game that I enjoy a lot. If BW uses it to his advantage, more power to him.

Rik

I have a higher standard for rules! :cool:

It all goes back to my childhood and "reading above the red line"--but I won't bore any of you with that!

[hankfan79]

You're stuck with SSP or ESP. As Jim and others have noted, CDP is .45 only.

Just a question though. Why would you want to shoot GAP in any shooting sport with ammo as expensive as it is? OK, if you reload, not too bad I guess. But you'll end up losing more brass than you'll care to.


Someone just told me today that 9mm is running $220/K. :shocked::shocked::shocked: I used to pay that for 45 two years ago.:shocked:

I got some 9mm for $180/1k and .45 for around 240/1k.(Todays pricing) Not sure where that pricing came from.