speeding up in IDPA

[another okie]

I am a new member of IDPA. I shot the qualifier and participated in my first match Saturday. I didn't drop too many points, but apparently I was extremely slow. Does anyone have some tips on speeding up without compromising safety? I'm using a Glock 17.

[DannyR]

Okie,

You can practice your draw with an empty pistol. The emphasis is to get your front sight quickly onto the target. With alive ammo, practice controlled pairs, emphasis on grip and stance. Fast double taps without control means little. Speed comes with practice. Don't try to force it. The Masters did not become Masters overnight. If you practice outdoors, then set up multiple targets at varying distances. IDPA is a game, just like golf and baseball. The more you practice........;)

I highly recommend Matt Burkett's 3-tape video package.;)

[hapuna]

First off do you have a timer and do you practice with it??? I have found that it is important to know how long it takes to draw and put the first shot in the target. You can then modify that by doing 2 per target and see how long it takes. You can then try doing it faster and seeing where you start to loose accuracy. The other drill was to shoot 2 do a tac reload and shoot 1. Reloads are usually time consuming. You can also do slide lock reload drills. Once you have the timer you can work on areas that you feel are slow. After drawing and shooting from 7yds try it from 20. I think you will see that it is slower if you want to hit the target. You can work on that til you get faster.
One thing I would find helpful is to understand what the times are like for the best shooters so there would be a goal to work toward but I haven't found one as yet. Good Luck

[howardw]

I’m kind of grappling with this issue myself. I’ve been shooting IDPA since December of last year. I’m currently an SSP Expert. I shot a match this weekend and compared my times to a very strong local master shooter. I shot the match quite well and was only down about 9 points in a 75 round match, but I was still 8 seconds slower than this master shooter overall. I’m thinking how do I pick up that 8 seconds? Well, shooting it clean in the same time will pick up a big chunk of that time, but not figuring an increase in accuracy how do I pick up time? (He was down more points than I was...)

Weapons Manipulations
Draw
Reload

Shooting
First shot
Split Times

Moving

Stage Management

These divisions are pretty much off the top of my head. But, let’s look at how we can get our times down on each.

Weapons Manipulations: This one is pretty easy. Dry fire. Personally, I’m just as fast (if not faster) than the Master shooter in question on these. (I’m shooting SSP he’s CDP) I dryfire every night, which is what I would suggest you do to get these times down. Your draw should be at least down to 1.5 secs. I think mine hovers around 1.3 depending on the difficulty of the first shot. But if you are in the 2.5 sec range on your draw there is a second per string that you can be saving. Reloads are the same way. All it takes is practice, and it’s cheap, at home, practice at that.

Shooting: Well first off, shooting accurately is one way to save time. If you are dropping a lot of points it will pay to slow down and shoot only as fast as you can accurately. (Enos paraphrased, “Shoot only as fast as you can see, and see only what you need to make the hit.”) But, you say you are shooting accurately, and so am I, so what else can we do?

Basically, I think, it’s a matter of lowering our split times. Again, this is a practice issue, but it is also intrinsically tied with technique. Everything is connected (grip, stance, trigger control) but some things are more key than others. For me, the importance of a good strong grip is beginning to become apparent. You don’t want to grip so hard that your hands shake or that you lose trigger finger dexterity, but a strong grip will help the front sight return home more consistently after recoil. Your really have to read Enos on watching the sights and shooting fast. It’s also an awareness and dexterity issue. I think dry fire can help in this to some extent. Learn how to pull the trigger quickly without disrupting the sights. But, live fire with a timer is where we can really improve on this. Another good shooter told me the thing to do is shoot 8” steel at distance. Once you learn to do this, everything else is cake. With steel you can teach yourself to associate a sight picture with a hit. With practice you just learn to do it faster.

Moving: I’m not sure what exactly I’m going to do here to speed things up. There are some tricks I know of that involve weight distribution to aid in going from stationary to moving, and tricks on running, but for me I think I need to practice them so they become natural. I’m going to look funny in the back yard, but I guess that’s what I’m going to have to do. In the words of the Master in question, “Start hauling when you see the front sight lift.” I’m going to start video taping matches too. That way I will be able to compare my shooting with the better shooters to see what I have to do to speed things up.

Stage Management: This is another good way to save time, and all it takes is a little thought. Shooting the classifier there are some things you can do. Do a Google search for “IDPA classifier tips” and you should find some of these. For matches, it’s good to hang with good shooters and pick their brains. This is gaming stuff so if you are shooting IDPA “tactically” you may want to ignore this stuff, but it’s where matches at the higher levels of competition are sometimes decided.

This is all rambling, but it’s stuff I’ve been thinking about lately. Anyone want to contribute and see where we can take this?

As for reading and watching: Enos's book and Burkett's book are great. I haven't gotten Burkett's videos yet (holding out for the DVD), but I've heard a lot of good things about them. www.brianenos.com www.mattburkett.com

[Mark L Miller]

I have seen lots of great advice here. I am going to add something that may or may not help. I was at a little idpa match the other day & most of the guys were shooting very well. However, it seemed on targets they were shooting at with more than one shot (double taps) they would shoot, think, then shoot again. I tell myself before I shoot - 2 shots (or whatever) is what I am gonna shoot. It is a mental discipline. 2 shots. My mind is made up before I ever even hear the buzzer. I am going to fire 2 shots where required or 3 or whatever. I am definitely not saying I am a great, or even good, shooter but my double taps were really strong that day. One of the guys even asked me how I did the double taps that fast. I was honored because he is a very fine shooter. I got the opportunity to work with him a few minutes & he decreased his split times considerably, with no loss of accuracy. Fun stuff, but mentally challenging. I have no idea if that is good trainig from a technical standpoint but since I am playing a game, that is what works for me. Good luck & have fun shooting. MLM By the way, I also shoot a g-17, 3.5lb connector, polished trigger, hi-viz front sight. Great guns!!!!

[Taipei Personality]

Originally posted by Mark L Miller
However, it seemed on targets they were shooting at with more than one shot (double taps) they would shoot, think, then shoot again.

In my experience, that's caused by target focus, rather than front sight focus. You shouldn't be looking for holes, rather, you should be able to "call your shot", i.e., know where on the target the front sight was when the shot let off.

Easier in theory than in practice, though. :)

[another okie]

Thanks! Some good advice there. I didn't mean I wasn't dropping any points, only that I was dropping fewer than many of the people who finished ahead of me. I do need to be more accurate at longer ranges.

[Snokid]

one of the best ways to improve your speed is to send more lead downrange....

but don't just pull the trigger learn with each shot.

how did that feel?
what did I see?
what could I do differently?

get the idea?

sno

[another okie]

I know I need to practice drawing and shooting. I also was using a holster with retention strap, the only OWB holster I had for my Glock. Now my Sidearmor OWB is here, and that should save some time right there.

One suggestion above that really jumps out at me is looking at the target rather than the sights. I feel sure I was doing that - shoot, look, shoot, look. But I didn't realize it until Taipei pointed it out above. I will definitely work on that. Thanks!

[Taipei Personality]

Originally posted by another okie
One suggestion above that really jumps out at me is looking at the target rather than the sights. I feel sure I was doing that - shoot, look, shoot, look. But I didn't realize it until Taipei pointed it out above. I will definitely work on that. Thanks!

Thank Brian Enos. :) If you haven't read his book, it's a must. Available at http://www.brianenos.com/Qstore/c000001.htm

[MarkP]

http://www.sportshooter.com/idpa/idpa_improving_results.htm

[mattburkett]

Danny, thanks for the comment on the video.

Howard, great post!

Okie, what I need to know to help you speed up is what you think you are slow at? Is it everything or can you come up with any areas in particular?

For a few tips to get you going, go to my website mattburkett (http://www.mattburkett.com) and click the shooting tips button on the left. The primary tip that will help you shoot better is the timing drill, of course this is almost impossible to do without a good grip and stance so check that tip out first.

Best of luck,

[Rick-Atl]

Try putting a video camera on a tripod and just video your shooting or have some one video you then you can critique the action and look for ways to improve.

Attending several matches helps you can observe the masters techniques.

BTW at my last IDPA match I was soo good the usual last place finisher agreed to pay my fees for the next match so he would not be last all the time.

;a

[MarkCO]

I hate to be the stick in the mud, but here goes.

Ask yourself these questions:

1. Why am I shooting IDPA?

2. What does score mean to me?

3. 1st or last, am I learning?

As a long time off and on IPSC shooter, and having obtained IDPA Master in 2 classes and Expert in 2, I ask myself, and my students these questions.

About 2 years ago, I was at a local IDPA match, I had shot a stage in 24.3 seconds. I won the match and had the fastest time on the stage. I happened to have my IPSC gun and gear and some of the shooters wanted to see how it would be shot "IPSC style", so I complied. I shot it in 10.2 seconds. Burkett would have shot it in 6 or 7 seconds.

Having run the clock on several different types of shooters, from IPSC to IDPA, to NRA, to Steel matches, and knowing the differnet mindsets, and having shot most disciplines, I offer this...

If IDPA is a game, then most of the above is good advice, but better advice is to shoot IPSC. It is the Winston cup of action pistol shooting. IDPA is like local sportsman class. If IDPA is what you use for getting some form of stress hoping to improve perceived real world skills, then time is of little concern. Most top IDPA shooters, if they approached a real life lethal encounter the same way they shoot stages, would make it into a pine box quickly. I am NOT saying that they would approach real life situations this way necessarily. I would bet money that at any IDPA match, the match lowest time was not the best tactician. One of our best Master Class shooters, who has several regional and state wins is not what I would call a tactician. However, we have some Marksman and Expert class shooters I would definately want if the proverbial fecal matter hits the rotating impeller blades!!!

Also, IDPA matches vary widely from club to club. Some stress tactics, some are just watered down IPSC stages. Also, SOs vary, as does rule enforcement. I can shoot a stage fast enough, commiting procedurals, that the SO can't yell "cover" fast enough to give me a penalty. This of course is wrong, and I only did it to show the inconsistency afforded speed shooters. I'd love to get some of the "top club" shooters on my stages, and then watch the mid level shooters with good tactics shame them when they blow cover, fail to scan, etc.

So figure out why you are shooting IDPA. Then set yourself some goals to effect that end, whatever it might be. This should include scores. I am NOT saying that scores have to be unimportant to a tactician, but they should not be the most important. If they are, again, move on up to IPSC. No matter what you do, focus on at least one weakness and strength each match. Pay attention to them and learn about your shooting.

I highly recomend Matt's tapes as well.

As I read my post, I thought of one more thing. I shot IDPA almost exclusively over the past 2 years. I did very well, almost always placing in the top three overall in matches. But I also stopped getting the stress dump. IDPA became less and less of a challenge to me. My tactical skills were very good to start with and I refined and improved most of them. In some form, I became bored. The last several matches, I have not even shot the stages. I design them to help create a forum in which those who wanted to could improve their tactical skills. From the shooters response, I have accomplished this goal. I don't give a rip what my score is in IDPA, I know if I push myself, I can win. I only want to test tactics. That is why IPSC is so much fun. It tests my analytical skills, my shooting skills, has a higher level of excitement and adrenaline, and I am competing with TOP level competitors where those few tenths I have worked so hard to get pay off. Shaving a few tenths in IDPA lets me win by 20.2 seconds instead of 20, big deal.

Regards,

[another okie]

In response to the question about my goals in IDPA: I'm a beginner. I want to see how I do with competition stress added and to improve my gun handling skills under pressure.

In response to the question about what parts I want to speed up on:
I need to speed up (1) the time to draw and make the first shot and (2) the time to acquire the next target. Especially number 2. As a legacy of target shooting I tend to stare at the target after I've shot it and think for a moment before moving on.

I'm not really concerned about speeding up in terms of going around corners or running from one spot to another or "solving" the scenario.

[Rusty Phillips]

Originally posted by MarkCO
1. Why am I shooting IDPA?


this is a very good question

why are you shooting?

i cant afford to spend $300 or more on a 2 or 3 day pistol class, so for me IDPA is the next best way for me to improve.

IDPA allows me to work on my pistol skills, solve tactical problems, and work on "mindset" issues... not to mention teach me to keep my head down. relatively low on my priorities are speeding up or whether or not i can shoot a 2" group at 15 yards... those will come with time.

im 6'2" and you should see me hide behind a 55 gallon drum

if there was an award for "best use of cover" i think i might have a shot at winning it, which is good, because im not winning much else...

im not going there to win things or impress people

[smoney]

Ok, i am an SSP master, i routinely shoot with some very experienced masters, what seperates a master from the expert its all mental, BUT it takes a lot of physical knowlege to get to the physical "expert" level.

First, i can say todd jarret's video on "basics" is basic, sorry i can't testify about matt's as i don't have them yet.

but it is really NOT that far out of the realm of most people to take a class to a good instructor, i mean you buy a new gun right, well instead of buying that gun, maybe you should learn to use the ones that you have at a more proficient level.... people can steal guns,. they can't steal knowlege.

that said ways to improve speed, buy a timer WOAH. another $120 minimum, but if you want to run with the big dogs. one cute trick i have heard of is using a stop watch and a tape recorder and a whistle, blow it at 1 sec, 2 sec, or whatever yoru par time is.

lastly, and this is what people hate the most PRACTICE!!!!! strap on your blaster with NO ammo ANYWHERE near you, and dry fire dryfire a lot and dry fire often. my recomendation is 1/2 hour a day. it doesn't take long to help your accuracy, but then learn a draw stroke. to reload, an transition from one target to another, smooth is fast!

good luck in your endeavours.

[mattburkett]

smoney, great post, and you have a nice webstore. :-)

BTW when I was getting started, I didn't have a lot of money to practice. DRYFIRE. Did that a lot! Probably even up to three hours a day sometimes. You have to make the gun an extension of yourself.

Get all the information that you can, books, videos etc... I would suggest getting the most information from the IPSC market as it has been around longer and there is a lot more available. Check out the forums at www.brianenos.com and the tips and forums on my site. There is enough info to keep you busy for the next couple of years.

Actually the best thing you can do to improve your IDPA shooting is to go shoot an IPSC match if you can find one in your area. Once you get good at IPSC it is an easy changeover to IDPA.

Take care,

[another okie]

Thanks! Some good tips. I shot a second match, finishing 20th out of 23 despite shooting almost completely clean. I'm still too slow between shots - that's the main thing I want to work on. Most of the guys and girls going very fast were not very realistic in their behavior - running around corners and so on. I do want to move up to a decent classification, but there's no hurry.


I guess the main advice I see above is to practice drawing adn dry-firng from the holster. I'll do it.

[Duck of Death]

I practice my draws using a cheap tape recorder. I've recorded "are you ready, stand by, beep" the beep coming from my timer. The beep is spaced at different intervals form the standby. You can get a lot of start signals on a 1 1/2 hour tape.

[Wulfenite]

For newbies I recommend that they give themselves two speeds; like gears in a car. Shooting speed and moving speed. When you're starting out you're spending a great deal of mental energy on managing the weapon to make hits and be safe. While enguaging an array you will often get stuck in a low gear. When its time to move you'll continue in that same low gear wasting time.

This is where a newbie can save alot of time. When you're done with an array. Mentally put the gun away. By that I mean finger off trigger weapon pointed and fixed in a safe direction (usually towards the next array). That done, break out of the low gear and MOVE! When you get to the next array, shift back into the shooting gear.

The same kind of thing happens within an array. If the stage designer puts two targets at 10 yards and 2 targets at 2 yards is not uncommon to see new shooters enguage the 10 yarders at an appropriately slow pace then carry that same pace onto the contact distance targets. As you shoot matches and practice try to cultivate the ability to automatically ratchet your speed up and down to hit each target at the right pace. Also try to identify that distances where you can use different sighting techniques. For instance. <3 yds. = double tap w/out sight picture. >3<6 yds. = double tap with a ragged sight picture., etc.