Educate me...please

[Lone Wolf8634]

I'm a complete beginner when it comes to AR's. I know I would like to own one before the end of the year but I have no idea what to look for.

I've read quite a bit about building your own, but thats out due to my (obvious) inexperience.

What I would like would be a range / varmit gun. Something I could shoot a lot and learn about so I could eventualy build my own...always assuming that that would still be allowed in the future!

So I my question to you is: which ready built rifle would be best to buy for a beginner?

Brand?

Barrel length?

Sights?

Any extras that would make the rifle more functional/ enjoyable?

Would I benifit most from a used or a new gun? I've seen a lot for sale here on GT that looked nice!!!

Any help would be appreciated, I'm currently saving $$$ for this so I need to get edumacated!!!

[RWBlue]

What price range?

[RWBlue]

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=52
18" SPR 5.56mm Rifle with VIS
$2441.27

Tack on a Leupold mil dot scope with Larue mount.
Gemtech sound suppressor
Gen3 Mini-14, IR laser
Harris bi-pod w/ YHM mount

:drool:

[Lone Wolf8634]

What price range?

Oops! Kinda left that out, Didnt I? I'm planning on spending between $1000- to $1500 on this.

[Lone Wolf8634]

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=52
18" SPR 5.56mm Rifle with VIS
$2441.27

Tack on a Leupold mil dot scope with Larue mount.

:drool:

That might be a little outside the realm of financial possibilities:shocked:

[RWBlue]

Find the chart that gets posted here. It details which brands have what mil.spec. items.


If it is a SHTF rifle, I would suggest you get a chrome lined barrel.
If you want the ultimate accuracy, I suggest you don't get a chrome lined barrel.

When you say varmint gun, what range are you shooting them?
If you are reaching out there a longer barrel is better.
The military goes with 14.5 inch barrels, 18 inch barrels, 20 inch barrels.

I don't recommend 14.5 inch barrels because the flash suppressor has to be pinned and welded to make it 16 inches or pay the ATF $200 to make a SBR.

[Lone Wolf8634]

I'll try to find that chart.

I hadnt thought about it being a SHTF gun, But will probly be in the line up. I consider ALL my guns SHTF guns. (Except for the TC encore)

Whats the purpose of the chrome lined barrel?

Acuuracy is definitly what I want. 20' barrel is probly what would want.

[RWBlue]

I consider my AR-15 light barrel a primary SHTF rifle. I have a AR-15 HBAR, that I will not consider a SHTF rifle because I don't want to carry it.

Chrome lined barrels decrease the likelihood of corrosion in the barrel.

Heavy barrels are great for long strings of shooting, but are a ***** to carry.

Your going to want a free float rail, this will help with accuracy.
I like mil.spec. mags, but some people will tell you to get some PMAGs. If I were in your shoes, I would get some of both. This also means some 20s and some 30s.

BTW, I was serious about the Larue scope mount. I have two, I will buy more.

Take a look at www.rockriverarms.com A4, or A4 National Match

[MrMurphy]

The short (carbine length, 14.5 or 16") barrels are more than accurate enough for your needs. With an optic or a decent shooter you can hit anything you want out to 300+ meters or more, with irons as well. With an irons-only rifle the 20" has a longer sight radius and makes it easier to hit, but it can easily be done. A Special Forces guy in Afghanistan back in 2002ish dropped a Talibaner at 500 m with a scoped M4.

the short barrel, combined with a collapsing stock, makes it exceedingly handy for getting into/out of vehicles, moving through heavy brush, buildings, etc. I do this every day, and you can do it with a 20" (M16 length) but the M4 makes it far handier.

A LMT, Sabre Defense, Colt, or on the lower end Stag Arms, 16" barreled carbine, flat top reciever, with rails, and a collapsing stock is a good "all around" package that can be made to do anything. More than accurate enough for plinking, handy for defensive use, and with the rails and reciever you can add/subtract anything you want.

[RMTactical]

I use my carbines for varmint hunting, but they were built with the priority being that of self defense, etc...

Is that what you are thinking about going for??

[Branspop]

This also means some 20s and some 30s.

20s are great. Particularly if you are planning any prone or bench shooting. I use Brownells and USGI mags. I have Pmag, but haven't played with them enough to give it an honest rating.

[MrMurphy]

I've never had any problem shooting prone with 30s. Prone, as in prone in the middle of a hillside, wearing armor, shooting through waisthigh grass, or over/around obstacles, walls, and vehicles tends to be a bit different than prone on the range where everything is perfectly flat. :)

[Kalmah]

Scroll down to the bottom. The Model 6.
http://www.stagarms.com/rightrifles.htm

Just add a scope and you're ready to reach out and touch those prairie dogs.

[RWBlue]

The short (carbine length, 14.5 or 16") barrels are more than accurate enough for your needs. With an optic or a decent shooter you can hit anything you want out to 300+ meters or more, with irons as well. With an irons-only rifle the 20" has a longer sight radius and makes it easier to hit, but it can easily be done. A Special Forces guy in Afghanistan back in 2002ish dropped a Talibaner at 500 m with a scoped M4.

Accuracy is not based on barrel length, but if you are trying to shoot a ground squirrel the size of your 2 firsts put together, more velocity makes everything fly flatter.


the short barrel, combined with a collapsing stock, makes it exceedingly handy for getting into/out of vehicles, moving through heavy brush, buildings, etc. I do this every day, and you can do it with a 20" (M16 length) but the M4 makes it far handier.

+1
But it should be noted that the Army is using the SPR, and the Marines are still issuing M16A4s.

[MrMurphy]

For the majority of the Marines (though with a collapsing stock as originally intended, it'd be better) the A4 makes sense.

Personally a collapsing stock A4 I could live with, but working out a Humvee most days, the M4 is far handier. For what I do, it makes more sense.

[Branspop]

I've never had any problem shooting prone with 30s. Prone, as in prone in the middle of a hillside, wearing armor, shooting through waisthigh grass, or over/around obstacles, walls, and vehicles tends to be a bit different than prone on the range where everything is perfectly flat. :)


I work in a more urban environment. Things can be quite flat.

[MrMurphy]

I generally work on and around a flightline (doesn't get too much flatter and wide open) but there's a lot of buildings and microterrain in other parts too.

[RWBlue]

Lone Wolf8634, the problems that come with one rifle, when you really want 2 or 3 or 5. :)
The best rifle for long range work, is the worst rifle for short range work.

I am thinking of doing a SBR, 11 inch barrel, collapsible stock for close range work. It would be better for in the vehicle...

I also want an SPR clone, 18inch stainless barrel, PRS. It might pay noveskerifleworks for their upper, because I want that kind of accuracy.

[Lone Wolf8634]

Lone Wolf8634, the problems that come with one rifle, when you really want 2 or 3 or 5. :)
The best rifle for long range work, is the worst rifle for short range work.

I am thinking of doing a SBR, 11 inch barrel, collapsible stock for close range work. It would be better for in the vehicle...

I also want an SPR clone, 18inch stainless barrel, PRS. It might pay noveskerifleworks for their upper, because I want that kind of accuracy.

Yeah, Ive already figured out that the black rifle bug is gonna be just as bad as my plasticpistolosis. I can already see my wifes eyes rolling!!:upeyes:

Oh well, ya gotta have hobbies!!

Keep goin, I'm hiding and learning!!

[Lone Wolf8634]

Another stupid question, Can you get multiple barrels for the same rifle or do the barrels have to com with an upper?

[RWBlue]

Another stupid question, Can you get multiple barrels for the same rifle or do the barrels have to com with an upper?

I can change an upper in less than a minute while having a conversation at the range. My optics are on the upper, they remain sighted in.

I built some of my guns so I could swap a barrel it I wanted to. This would take longer. Everything would need to be sighted in, adjusted.....

i.e If you are thinking of swapping at the range, back and forth, get two uppers.
If you are thinking of buying a complete gun and swapping barrels later, It can be done, but it is usually easier/better to build a second upper.

[Lone Wolf8634]

I can change an upper in less than a minute while having a conversation at the range. My optics are on the upper, they remain sighted in.

I built some of my guns so I could swap a barrel it I wanted to. This would take longer. Everything would need to be sighted in, adjusted.....

i.e If you are thinking of swapping at the range, back and forth, get two uppers.
If you are thinking of buying a complete gun and swapping barrels later, It can be done, but it is usually easier/better to build a second upper.

Thank you, I'm sure that once I get one that I'll wanna tweak it just a little bit. My fear is that after next year we'll end up with some form of AWB and wont be able to get parts. I'm sure it'll take me quite a while just to figure out "exactly" what I want.