Pm45 Vs Pm9

[Knuckler]

Anyone out there have both?

I LOVE my PM9, but 9mm worries me. I would rather have .45.
What is the recoil like on a PM45? How much bigger is it?
Is it small enough to carry as a BUG on my ankle?

Thanks.

[thug23]

A friend of mine who is a cop has a PM40 and he said he wishes he bought the PM9 instead. He said he can hardly shoot the gun for more than 50 rounds as it breaks free from his grip and the recoil is brutal and hurts his hand. I guess the gun handle is very slim and narrow with not much to wrap your hands around. :dunno: With the ammo they make today a 9MM is plenty of stopping power.

[mini14jac]

Don't buy into the hype that the .45 (or any handgun for that matter) is a death ray.
Steven Camp has shot many 16-18 lb. varmint with .38, .45, and 9mm, and says he's seen no difference in "stopping power" on those small critters.
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/OtherHandguns.htm

His "always gun" is a J frame .38. :wow:

For a gun as small the PM9, 9mm is going to be easier to control than .40 or .45.
Hitting the target is the key to winning.
As the saying goes, "You can't miss fast enough to win the fight.".

The 9mm in your PM9 is more than adequate for personal protection, if you do your part.

[Kyglock22]

Don't buy into the hype that the .45 (or any handgun for that matter) is a death ray.
Steven Camp has shot many 16-18 lb. varmint with .38, .45, and 9mm, and says he's seen no difference in "stopping power" on those small critters.
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/OtherHandguns.htm

His "always gun" is a J frame .38. :wow:

For a gun as small the PM9, 9mm is going to be easier to control than .40 or .45.
Hitting the target is the key to winning.
As the saying goes, "You can't miss fast enough to win the fight.".

The 9mm in your PM9 is more than adequate for personal protection, if you do your part.

Excellent information!!! I've carried a 9mm for years and do not worry about the 9mm/.40/.45 hype. Clearly hitting the target at the point in which you aim is FAR more important than caliber.( aka COM shots)

[gtmtnbiker98]

I carry my PM9 loaded with Speer GDHPs, 124gr +P+ and I'm plenty comfortable.

[Knuckler]

Guys, I understand the there has been alot of advancement in
the stopping power of the 9mm. I am just not a big fan.
The department next to mine had 12 shootings with their full
size SIG P226s last year...and 7 of them survived. In one case,
the suspect was hit 6 or 7 times, and still continued to try and grab
his gun out of the backseat. One of the UC officers had to jump
onto the hood of his car and dump a round into his head to end the fight.
Not comforting. Now that I am working a "non uniform" assignment,
I cannot carry my full size duty pistol. I don't have a shotgun and a
patrol rifle next to me, nor is my partner right there. I want as much
"thumping" power as I can get in a small package.

I'm not talking about 20 pound varmints. I'm worried about 175lb crackheads,
drunks, and psychos. "People" like that are the majority of my "customers".
They don't respond to pain stimuli the same way normal people do.

I know that a handgun is not a death ray. I have a shotgun and a patrol
rifle in my car (when working uniform)....they are far more effective.
If given the choice, I show up with one of those.

I know shot placement is key.....but my world is not paper targets.
In real life, you cannot always get a perfect shot. I want as much
projected power as possible, for that unfortunate time when things
go south quickly.

I have heard that the PM40 is unpleasant, but the PM45 is not.

Does anyone have both? Can you compare size and recoil?

I really do not want this to turn into a "9mm is OK with me" thread.
I don't care if 9mm is fine for you. More than likely, you are not going to the
same places, and doing the same things I am.

I simply want someone to compare/contrast the 2 pistols....please.

[Rick Poage]

the kahr 45s are easy to shoot, even the pm45. the 45 doesnt have the pressure or more importantly the slide velocity of the 40 or the 9. the 45 with standard pressure to me is easier to shoot the the pm9 with plus p plus. im comfortable with the 9, because i shoot it well but i like big bullets that knock big holes and penetrate deep, so im a big fan of and shoot 45s to. i carry in my pocket, every day, a pm9 and with the grace of God i will survive if it comes to that so... i read my bible and practice practice practice.............regards rick

[user]

I like the flatter trajectory and greater cartridge capacity that a 9 gives you. If you're doing target practice and you know your target is 7 yards away, then a .45 is great. But if your target is moving between 7 and 25 yards and you have to carry trajectory tables in your head in order to lob a big heavy .45 to where he is, you're likely to miss. Also the lower recoil of the .45 as compared with the .40 is due to the fact that bigger heavier bullet has a reduced power load. Sort of like firing a howitzer, in my mind. I think the .45 mystique is due to WWII sentimentalism, myself. Whenever I see questions like that, my first thought is, "what, are you kidding?"

[randyc74]

I carry a Glock 23 .40 cal. on duty as a LEO (detective) I carry a
PM45 or S&W 442 as my back up weapon. I practice a couple times a month or more with all 3 pistols. I feel the KAHR PM45 has less objectional recoil then the Glock or the 442.

Randy

[Kyglock22]

the kahr 45s are easy to shoot, even the pm45. the 45 doesnt have the pressure or more importantly the slide velocity of the 40 or the 9. the 45 with standard pressure to me is easier to shoot the the pm9 with plus p plus. im comfortable with the 9, because i shoot it well but i like big bullets that knock big holes and penetrate deep, so im a big fan of and shoot 45s to. i carry in my pocket, every day, a pm9 and with the grace of God i will survive if it comes to that so... i read my bible and practice practice practice.............regards rick

No offense, but there is NO WAY that any Kahr .45 is "easier" to shoot or "feels" easier to shoot than a PM9. I've shot both, as well as K9's, P9's, K40's, TP9's and believe me when I say that you can tell a difference in felt recoil when shooting the .40/.45 versus the .9mm in Kahr pistols. I'm not saying the .40 or .45 is too much or unmanageable in any Kahr platform, but any Kahr 9mm shoots "easier". Felt recoil is much less when shooting the steel Kahr's versus the Polymer ones as well.

And for the record, Kahr does not advise ANY +P+ ammo to be shot through their pistols.....let alone their polymer versions. I'm not saying it can not be done, but the pistols were not designed for the pressures of +P+ ammo

Mike

[Rick Poage]

and no offense to you. in my opion the 45s are easier to shoot, the recoil is diffferent then the pm9, more of a shove then the sharp kick, but thats just my opion and if its different then somone elses, it didnt cost them anything. i know kahrs were not made with plus p plus in mind but its important to me to know the products that i sell, the strong points and weak ones as well. this ammo is not going to destroy a pistol as well made as a kahr and unlike most folks, if it breaks, i can fix it......regards rick

[Chuck54]

I own;

PM9
T9
P45

The P45 definately has the heavier recoil, no matter what bullet weight or pressure level in any of the three pistols.

I know it is contrary to what sounds reasonable but in the P45 I tried Gold Dots in 185 and 230 grain loads both at standard pressure levels. Each time I fired the 185's I checked the box to make sure they were not +P as the recoil was noticeably more brisk than the 230's.

[Kyglock22]

and no offense to you. in my opion the 45s are easier to shoot, the recoil is diffferent then the pm9, more of a shove then the sharp kick, but thats just my opion and if its different then somone elses, it didnt cost them anything. i know kahrs were not made with plus p plus in mind but its important to me to know the products that i sell, the strong points and weak ones as well. this ammo is not going to destroy a pistol as well made as a kahr and unlike most folks, if it breaks, i can fix it......regards rick


You do realize that you've voided your warranty on the Kahr Pistol that you chose to shoot +P+ ammo through correct? And just so you know, Kahr DOES INDEED watch and monitor The Kahr Club here on GT, and keeps up with the newest posts on here. I'm not talking about your "average" worker from "the assembly line" either..... I know for a fact that the "High Ups" at Kahr watch this club. Best of Luck!

Mike

[mini14jac]

The point of my post was, when shooting any handgun, it's probably going to take multiple hits to make an attacker stop.

If the calibers mentioned wouldn't stop an 18 lb. animal in it's tracks, why on earth do you think any of them would stop a 200lb. crackhead? :shocked: :upeyes:

As a police officer, you may have seen the video of the officer who emptied his .357 into a large assailant, (who lived) only to be killed by the bad guy's .22 magnum. :dunno:

The link I provided has several articles that talk about actual police shootings involving everything from .38 to 12 guage.
It makes interesting reading, and proves that you'd better plan on shooting until the threat is ended, regardless of your weapon.

In the shooting scenarios you mentioned, I doubt seriously that the outcome would have been any different if the officers were shooting .357 magnum.
There is plenty of "real world" data available to verify this.
I believe that the actual statistic is that 90% of shooting victims survive, (regardless of caliber) but I don't plan on looking it up.
So, plan your shootings accordingly.

Anyway, good luck. Carry what you want, but don't be surprised if the bad guy isn's blown across the room when you shoot him. :faint:

[gtmtnbiker98]

Irregardless of caliber, make and/or model, it all boils down to shot placement and as a side note, cops are not known for their marksmanship ability. My wife shoots better than half the officers on my dept.

[user]

Most of the Sheriff's Deputies and Police Officers I chat with while on business at various courthouses don't really like guns. They regard them as necessary tools and they're not the slightest bit interested in how they work or in getting better at shooting them. Some of them say things like how they don't like loud noises, or resent the time it takes to go to the range to qualify.

[Bang!]

Most of the Sheriff's Deputies and Police Officers I chat with while on business at various courthouses don't really like guns. They regard them as necessary tools and they're not the slightest bit interested in how they work or in getting better at shooting them. Some of them say things like how they don't like loud noises, or resent the time it takes to go to the range to qualify.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? :rofl:

[user]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? :rofl:

no, no joke. Of course, there's some nonzero probability that they're telling me a bunch of crap for some reason I don't understand. Maybe they're afraid the populace will think they're a bunch of whacko nazi types if they admit they like firearms. There are a bunch of whacko socialist types who view the mere ownership of guns as an act of aggression. So maybe it's a line they're told to recite for political reasons.

[1337-G]

I carry my PM9 loaded with Speer GDHPs, 124gr +P+ and I'm plenty comfortable.

You sure that you didn't sneak an extra "+" in there?

[Javelin]

I am just saving up for a nice rorenbaugh sub 9mm. But oh my they are nice and to me worth two kahr pistols.

[Kyglock22]

I am just saving up for a nice rorenbaugh sub 9mm. But oh my they are nice and to me worth two kahr pistols.


:laughabove:

Best of Luck with the "rorenbaugh" (Rohrbaugh) 9mm sub compact. Not only are they WAY over priced, but unfortunately they suffer a lot of problems and malfunctions as well. Do a Google search and you'll find this out. No thanks, I'll stick with any of my Kahrs.

[MarkTX]

Anyone out there have both?

I LOVE my PM9, but 9mm worries me. I would rather have .45...


No I don't have both -just the PM9. But your statement sounds a bit odd, I mean if you don't care for the 9mm then why do you LOVE your PM9. It just seems like caliber is the decision you make before the purchase :cool:

What is your duty handgun ? When I played deputy at the local SO, I carried a G22 on the hip and a G27 on the ankle (but you do need a quality rig for that). The ability to use G22 mags in the G27 made it a simple choice.

The G27 is remarkably easy to shoot, seems to have less "felt recoil" in my hands than the G23 :embarassed:

[randyc74]

Prior to buying my PM45, I had every intention of buying the PM9 for backup/offduty. I would not feel under gunned with a 9mm. The PM45 was on sale at a local gun store so I saved money going with the PM45. No pistol caliber is always a one shot manstopper. Now that I have the PM45 I'm very satisfied with the pistol, but would probably have been just as satisfied with the PM9. Kahr makes a fine pistol in any caliber.

[czdj]

Guys, I understand the there has been alot of advancement in
the stopping power of the 9mm. I am just not a big fan.
The department next to mine had 12 shootings with their full
size SIG P226s last year...and 7 of them survived. In one case,
the suspect was hit 6 or 7 times, and still continued to try and grab
his gun out of the backseat. One of the UC officers had to jump
onto the hood of his car and dump a round into his head to end the fight.
Not comforting. Now that I am working a "non uniform" assignment,
I cannot carry my full size duty pistol. I don't have a shotgun and a
patrol rifle next to me, nor is my partner right there. I want as much
"thumping" power as I can get in a small package.

I'm not talking about 20 pound varmints. I'm worried about 175lb crackheads,
drunks, and psychos. "People" like that are the majority of my "customers".
They don't respond to pain stimuli the same way normal people do.

I know that a handgun is not a death ray. I have a shotgun and a patrol
rifle in my car (when working uniform)....they are far more effective.
If given the choice, I show up with one of those.

I know shot placement is key.....but my world is not paper targets.
In real life, you cannot always get a perfect shot. I want as much
projected power as possible, for that unfortunate time when things
go south quickly.

I have heard that the PM40 is unpleasant, but the PM45 is not.

Does anyone have both? Can you compare size and recoil?

I really do not want this to turn into a "9mm is OK with me" thread.
I don't care if 9mm is fine for you. More than likely, you are not going to the
same places, and doing the same things I am.

I simply want someone to compare/contrast the 2 pistols....please.


Thanks for the clarification... Mission does dictate the gear/kit and I'm hoping more folks will chime in with the comparison you're looking for.

Personally, I'll be getting the mid-size or compact S&W M&P45 after I have had a chance to grip both of them. I don't see any advantages to the Kahr platform over the M&P.

[KharToon]

[QUOTE=czdj;10515089]Thanks for the clarification... Mission does dictate the gear/kit and I'm hoping more folks will chime in with the comparison you're looking for.

Personally, I'll be getting the mid-size or compact S&W M&P45 after I have had a chance to grip both of them. I don't see any advantages to the Kahr platform over the M&P.[QUOTE]

Kahr is smaller and more comfortable to carry. The mid size M&P45 is NOT anywhere near as small as the PM45. I have owned and sold to M&P Compacts, one in .40 and on in 9mm. Both of them failed to return to battery regularly and were not reliable. Just my 2 cents.

[KharToon]

Anyone out there have both?

I LOVE my PM9, but 9mm worries me. I would rather have .45.
What is the recoil like on a PM45? How much bigger is it?
Is it small enough to carry as a BUG on my ankle?

Thanks.

PM45 is comparable to a P9 in grip length and would be pushing the limits of ankle carry IMO.

[czdj]

I have owned and sold to M&P Compacts, one in .40 and on in 9mm. Both of them failed to return to battery regularly and were not reliable. Just my 2 cents.

That's unfortunate!!! I have over 1000 rounds through my full size 9mm and it has performed flawlessly. OTOH, my Kahr PM9 has had to go back twice to get worked over to be reliable with the 6 round magazine.

Did you ever send your M&P's back to S&W? What did they tell you?

[KharToon]

That's unfortunate!!! I have over 1000 rounds through my full size 9mm and it has performed flawlessly. OTOH, my Kahr PM9 has had to go back twice to get worked over to be reliable with the 6 round magazine.

Did you ever send your M&P's back to S&W? What did they tell you?

Never sent them back, just traded them in for Glocks.:supergrin:

[beaversgs]

I too would like to hear more from folks who have shot the PM45 and the PM9. I've had 2 PM9's and a MK9 and liked all three. I know where the last one I sold is and he knows to call me if he decideds to part with it:supergrin:

Seriously, I'm interested in compared percieved recoil and viability for pocket carry.

GregB

[ScoPro]

I've always heard the advantage of the .45 over the lesser calibers is that it makes bigger holes which leak more blood. :cool:

[KharToon]

I've always heard the advantage of the .45 over the lesser calibers is that it makes bigger holes which leak more blood. :cool:

Could agree more, the trick is getting the penetration with a bigger BB so it can reach vital organs and make that bigger hole.

[beaversgs]

I'm interested in trying to get some idea of the perceived recoil of the PM45 before I drop @$700 on a pistol that may not be what I'm looking for. Any feed back from folks who have shot or own one would be appreciated. Feel free to PM or email me.

GregB

[KharToon]

I'm interested in trying to get some idea of the perceived recoil of the PM45 before I drop @$700 on a pistol that may not be what I'm looking for. Any feed back from folks who have shot or own one would be appreciated. Feel free to PM or email me.

GregB

The percieved recoil is similar to shooting a hot 9mm (+P), .40 or .357 sig in a sub compact pistol. Reacquisition is more difficult than my PM9 but the trade off in caliber is worth the extra kick for me. This is my second PM45 and just like the first one, brass hits me in the face or forehead at least one in five or six shots :cool:

[mmc45414]

if your target is moving between 7 and 25 yards and you have to carry trajectory tables in your head in order to lob a big heavy .45 to where he is, you're likely to miss. ... Sort of like firing a howitzer, in my mind. ... Whenever I see questions like that, my first thought is, "what, are you kidding?"I can’t believe I am stepping into a potential caliber war, but when I see statements like that, my first thought is “what, are you kidding?” It is OK if it is not your preference, but I can assure you from experience shooting it at targets that range between 3 and 50 yards for about 30 years, you are not likely to miss anatomically shaped targets because of the bullet's trajectory.

We occasionally like to back up to about 50 and shoot at 8” plates against the clock for practice and fun. At that range I will pull up a couple inches above the target but success at that point has a lot more to do with a nice trigger than trajectory.

[beaversgs]

I hadn't intended to start a caliber war with this thread. I guess my next question for PM45 owners is it possible/comfortable to run a hundred rounds of standard power carry ammo fairly quickly in one range session without any adverse effects or is 50 rounds more realistic?

Thanks,

Greg