Kahr PM9 failure

[surgdog]

I had a scary problem today with my new PM9. I was going through the breakin period and was on about my 300th round when the gun expoled.

It appears that the slide did not set all the way and fired the bullet without it being fulled sitted.

The top of the grip on the right side blew off and scared the hell out of me. The shell casing is busted at the button. It almost appears if this is some kind of safety feature since there is not a corresponding part on the left grip.

This gun is brand new and this was it's first firing. Is it suppose to be able to fire without the slide fully forward.

I would appreciate any ideas as to the problem and what I should do now with this expensive piece of plastic and metal.

Any ideas would be welcome. I will try and attach pictures.

[user]

Kahr's operating manuals say that's how the gun is supposed to function when a cartridge blows up incorrectly. The grips are designed to act as a pressure relief valve, like you've got on the lid of a pressure cooker, in order to prevent the gun from literally exploding.

Nevertheless, I'd make arrangements with Kahr to have them check it over before attempting to fire it again. Could be dangerous.

[surgdog]

Thanks for the reply.

I am still impressed that the gun is able to fire without the slide being fully forward.

I plan on calling Kahr first thing Tuesday morning.

[road_king]

I often wonder why this kind of a problem only happens on a holiday weekend!

[Tough Guy Levi]

Howdy Surgdog:

Any photos of your damaged Kahr? Would like to see your pressure valve release (right grip) valve up "close".

As a side-bar, my Kahr PM 9 "survived" 787 miles in my waist-band 5.11 tactical jeans waist-band "holster" during a trip up to the CA Central Coast this weekend. Very comfortable carrying plus my extra mag was in a Milt Sparks PCH pocket holder. One would never know I was carrying even though I didn't have much opportunity to take leather jacket/sweatshirt off because of the cool overcast weather.

I did go "bare" when I was walking around the Arroyo Grande Strawberry Festival on Saturday. My tucked in Harley long-sleeve shirt covered up the Kahr easily. In fact, I "ran" into a fellow Rotarian who is the Arroyo Grande, CA Police Chief. We chatted about Rotary, motorcycles and CCW (carry concealed weapon) permits etc. He's in favor of CCW and I showed him my Orange County Sheriff Department permit and he asked if I was carrying. When I showed him a peek of my Kahr, he couldn't believe I could hide it so well in my waist-band 5.11 tactical jeans "holster".

Tough Guy Levi

[surgdog]

Hi, Tough Guy Levi.

Yeah, I got a great picture but when I tried to upload it said file was too large. Need to figure out how to decrease file size.

As an update I talked to Kahr today and they acted like this happens all the time. Said "white box Winchester" ammo was the worst offender. They suggested American ammo and no reloads. I thought Winchester was American but they said it was not. Who would have known.

At any rate they were nice and had me send it back. Next surprise it cost $97 to ship UPS overnight. So much for getting a good deal on the internet.

Thanks for the reply. I got this gun just for concealed carry.

Surgdog

[Tough Guy Levi]

Howdy Surgdog:

My Kahr PM 9, purchased new June 05 (VA# 59XX) has "digested" thousands of rounds using Winchester White Box ammo during practice sessions. Neary a problem and if WWB ammo was a constant "problem" wouldn't you think in the Kahr's owners manual there would be lawyer "speak" NOT TO USE WWB AMMO?

I've witnessed two non-Kahr "blown-up" incidents similar to yours during training sessions. The causes were man made, ie the shooters limp-wristed their weapons. The shooters weren't using Kahrs (Glock, Sig) thus Kahr might find a "problem" with your particular weapon.

Reduce the size of your photos and you will be able to upload them. We "all" are looking forward to them.

Tough Guy Levi

[mini14jac]

That's outrageous!
I would ask Kahr to cover the cost of shipping.

Winchester White Box, Walmart Bulk Pack, is all I shoot in my Kahr and Glock.
Haven't had a problem in thousands of rounds through a couple of Glocks, 3 Kahrs, and several other nines.

I'm thinking the gun was at fault.
Like you said, firing out of battery.

I wouldn't let them slide on that. :upeyes:

[surgdog]

Ok, here is a attempt at a resize of the picture. Hope it gets there.

[Tough Guy Levi]

Howdy Surgdog:

Happy your hand wasn't in the way of the grip that "let go" releasing the pressure! Be interested in Kahr's take on what caused your cartridge case to blow causing your weapon's damage! I doubt it the ammo was the cause!!

Tough Guy Levi
NRA Certified Pistol Instructor

[surgdog]

Yeah, considering I am a right handed surgeon it could have been a life changing experience.

Now I'm kinda concerned about shooting the Kahr at all. I will always be waiting for it to explode.

[Tough Guy Levi]

Howdy Surgdog:

Request Kahr replace your weapon with another. End of worry and you will be again confident your surgery hand will not be subjected to a grip "dent" in it. You informed us all about Kahr's built in grip escape mechanism. I practice shooting with both hands (I'm a Cowboy Action Shooter too) thus I'm aware now where my hand shouldn't be!! THANKS

One of my clients is a Dentist - Oral Surgeon - mid-life crisis- purchased a Harley (in thing to do?!) and spent 6 months healing because he had a boo boo breaking both wrists. One doesn't show off in front of his office staff while riding over a curb while looking at office staff rather than the road! Egg on his face thus had to hire a "sub" for 6 months until he healed. Still has the Harley but doesn't ride it as often as per his wife.

Tough Guy Levi

[jp233]

Wow, I did not think that Kahr's could fire out of battery but it appears I might be wrong.

Let us know how Kahr handles this, they should replace the entire gun to you free of charge. At least that's my position. Sounds like that is a pretty darn good design though, to blow that panel piece off instead of creating massive frame failure.

Winchester White Box is the ammo of choice for the range, it simply does not get cheaper for new ammo. WTF are they talking about???

[surgdog]

Well, I got the same gun back in less than 5 days. It was completely repaired and looked new.

I have not shot it yet but will soon.

I have reviewed the gun manuel it does not state that Winchester white box should not be used but they sure tell you that on the phone.

We will see.

[surgdog]

One other point.

This whole episode now has me looking at a Glock 27 for pocket carry. Even though I think the Kahr still has the size problem better controlled than the Glock.

I have a Glock 23 and I have complete confidence in it. I guess I will have to build that confidence in the Kahr again but I wonder if I will always be waiting for it to blow up. (That really gets your attention.)

Surgdog

[Bronson]

One other point.

This whole episode now has me looking at a Glock 27 for pocket carry. Even though I think the Kahr still has the size problem better controlled than the Glock.

I have a Glock 23 and I have complete confidence in it. I guess I will have to build that confidence in the Kahr again but I wonder if I will always be waiting for it to blow up. (That really gets your attention.)

Surgdog

I'm pretty sure Glocks will also fire out of battery. I know my old room mates would and the one I picked up at the gun show also did.

Bronson

[Tough Guy Levi]

Howdy Surgdog:

If KAHR has a problem with Winchester White Box ammo, there would be lawyer speak in the manual, on Kahr's pistol boxes and/or on the weapon itself. I have thousands of Winchester White Box ammo "digested" by my Kahr PM 9 with neary a problem. If you have any ammo left in the same White Box you were using, I would send the box/ammo to Winchester for their comments

I don't know why your weapon malfunctioned but since Kahr repaired it, looks new as you said, I'd be curious what the repair "slip" indicated was repaired, replaced ie barrel, slide, frame and etc?

I wouldn't hesitate shooting your weapon using my support hand until I had confidence in your weapon (HINT). Better safe than sorry Surgdog!!

Tough Guy Levi

[surgdog]

Ok Tough Guy Levi here is verbatim what the slip reads

"replaced extractor, Extractor spring, side panel, side panel screw, test fired ok."

Will try to go to range today and report back.

Surgdog

[surgdog]

Shot about 150 rounds today. Mostly UMC manufactured FMJ but also several mags of Georgia Arms HP and had no problems.

Makes a difference to load first round with mag release vs sling shot technique as Kahr suggests in manuel.

Feel comfortable enough with it that I carried tonight out to dinner using a Galco ankle holster.

I must have had a bad round initially to cause the kapoow. Will only shoot US manufactured ammo for now.

Surgdog