KED's & TRACTION SLPINTS [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : KED's & TRACTION SLPINTS


WIMPY
05-25-2008, 01:36
How many times are these items used in your practice? Actually pulled off the unit & put on a patient. I work in an urban ER and I can not remember the last time I saw a pt come in with either applied. I also am a paramedic and I have not used either in a while.:wavey:

jmatteau
05-25-2008, 06:10
We use our traction splint a couple times a year.

Our KEDS do not get pulled out as much as they should. I like to use the KED during the day when manpower is lower. It makes it lots easier to get the pt. out of the vehical and to the longboard. Seems when there are more people around though, the idea gets shot down.

D25
05-25-2008, 10:46
KEDs don't get used enough. If there are no indications for a rapid extrication- i.e. immediate life threats- then a KED needs to be employed. I get very frusterated when first responders drag their feet, or disappear when I show up with the green bag. Additionally, none of this is a secret, and ignoring your KED is opening yourself up to liability and demonstrating poor patient care. Regardless of your local protocols, the DOT curriculum, PHTLS, and every other modern instructional trauma guideline recomends seated spinal immobilization- to immobilization to a LBB, if there are no immediate life threats that dictate the necessity of a rapid extrication.

I use my Sager every time it is called for. It is an almost magical device that alleviates so much pain so easily. Femur fxs are relatively uncommon, but I can't immagine not using it when it is indicated.

To answer your question, in the last month or so, I've used the KED 5 or 6 times, and a Sager twice.

RyanNREMTP
05-25-2008, 15:06
I've used the KED a couple of times a year, mostly for pedi calls. Used the traction splint twice in a two week period last year and that's it. As for it's uses, we follow current ITLS protocols so the same as everyone else's basically.

In 13 years of EMS, I've only used the KED twice on an adult.

huskerbuttons
05-25-2008, 17:49
In 20 yrs in EMS I have used the the traction splint, both the Hare & Sager, about a dozen times or so. I love the Sager! The KED, 1 time in an MVA, about 20 times on hip fx's. They are great for that if you turn them upside down.

fire-duck
05-25-2008, 19:46
I have used the tractions splint once in the last year. The KED on the other hand, I agree that it does not get used near as much as it should be. On the ladder truck that I am assigned, we keep the backboard with all c-spine equipment, and KED inside the stokes basket, that way it is an all in one package. If you grab for one part you get them all, and it reminds you to use the KED, so it is not an after thought

HarleyArcher
05-26-2008, 10:03
I have been in EMS for 15 yrs and a Paramedic for 12 yrs. I have used both of them on patients a grand total of once each. The KED is probably the piece of equipment that is used the least but should be used the most. Both are a PIA in my opinion and should be removed from the KKK standards. Bryan

RLDS45S
05-26-2008, 15:22
Man I can not say the last time I saw a pt with a traction splint on in the ER, put one on a patient that turfed out.....but none come in.

D25
05-27-2008, 10:02
Both are a PIA in my opinion and should be removed from the KKK standards. Bryan

Because they are too difficult for you to use? They certainly do what they are designed to do, and they do it well. What do you use as an alternative? Anything? Or do you just let your patients "tough it out."

DaleGribble
05-27-2008, 13:38
Never ran a femur fx.

I've used the KED countless times for hip fx's. I've used it a few times on auto accidents but that's rare since most pt's are already up and ambulatory by the time we show up.

I used it Sunday on a guy that fell and whacked his noggin in his bathroom and was sitting in a chair when we showed up. It was the only way we could extricate him from his cramped quarters without totally blowing c-spine all to hell.

matsig
06-02-2008, 12:04
I love the KED and would like to see it used more often.
My Dept does ALOT of rapid extrications where the KED should have been used.

HarleyArcher
06-04-2008, 06:55
Because they are too difficult for you to use? They certainly do what they are designed to do, and they do it well. What do you use as an alternative? Anything? Or do you just let your patients "tough it out."

No they are not to hard to use, they take way to long to apply. We use vacum splints and fx. straps with MS and Fentanyl for pain! We use C-spine precautions and allot of help to remove people from vehicles, ect. Works just as good in half the time. They do work, but the KED (if you have ever used one) manipulates the hell out of people when you put it on. Bryan

D25
06-08-2008, 10:41
No they are not to hard to use, they take way to long to apply. We use vacum splints and fx. straps with MS and Fentanyl for pain! We use C-spine precautions and allot of help to remove people from vehicles, ect. Works just as good in half the time. They do work, but the KED (if you have ever used one) manipulates the hell out of people when you put it on. Bryan

So you use vasodialators on multisystem traumas? If you've broken your femur, the mechanism is there to effectively R/O isolated extremity fx, at least 90% of the time.

And, don't take this the wrong way, but you might need to get the ol' KED out and practice with it for a couple hours if you can't put one one without manipulating a pt. That is part of the NREMT-B test. They certainly can be challenging, and sometimes c-spine + lots of hands is a better option, but I think it is a tool that we need to be proficient with.

HarleyArcher
06-12-2008, 10:14
So you use vasodialators on multisystem traumas? If you've broken your femur, the mechanism is there to effectively R/O isolated extremity fx, at least 90% of the time.

And, don't take this the wrong way, but you might need to get the ol' KED out and practice with it for a couple hours if you can't put one one without manipulating a pt. That is part of the NREMT-B test. They certainly can be challenging, and sometimes c-spine + lots of hands is a better option, but I think it is a tool that we need to be proficient with.
First off I use vasodialators on orthopedic injuries, NOT multisystem trauma! If I have an isolated femur fx. (indication for the hair traction) then a splint and pain managment works great! How often do you have just that? Most femur fx. have other injuries associated with them that rule out the traction splint anyhow. As far a getting the ol' KED out we do it for skills annually and for all our class skills we may host. I feel more than proficient with it. I have been doing this job for a long time and I am one who ALWAYS keeps up on skills and tx. changes. Thanks for your input!! Bryan

D25
06-12-2008, 13:00
First off I use vasodialators on orthopedic injuries, NOT multisystem trauma! If I have an isolated femur fx. (indication for the hair traction) then a splint and pain managment works great! How often do you have just that? Most femur fx. have other injuries associated with them that rule out the traction splint anyhow. As far a getting the ol' KED out we do it for skills annually and for all our class skills we may host. I feel more than proficient with it. I have been doing this job for a long time and I am one who ALWAYS keeps up on skills and tx. changes. Thanks for your input!! Bryan

No. I agree with you. I thought you were saying that a vac splint and MS is what you use for femur fxs because it's faster than a Sager or Hare- regardless of the other considerations that come along with the injury.

And, I guess I'm not understanding you thoughts about the KED. I'm not doubting anyone's skills. I just don't understand why you say it's not used enough- a comment that seems to endorse the value and effacy of a KED, and then say that it manipulates the pt- which seems to percieve a KED as ineffective and possibly harmful. No hating- just interested in your thoughts.:wavey:

HarleyArcher
06-12-2008, 14:03
No. I agree with you. I thought you were saying that a vac splint and MS is what you use for femur fxs because it's faster than a Sager or Hare- regardless of the other considerations that come along with the injury.

And, I guess I'm not understanding you thoughts about the KED. I'm not doubting anyone's skills. I just don't understand why you say it's not used enough- a comment that seems to endorse the value and effacy of a KED, and then say that it manipulates the pt- which seems to percieve a KED as ineffective and possibly harmful. No hating- just interested in your thoughts.:wavey:

D25: If you go by standards and protocols, yes the KED is used to infrequently. It is a specific piece of equipment that is only on the truck for one thing and by not using it I know we are opening ourselves up for possible liabilities. However, I feel myself and a few good trained helpers can remove and package a patient from a sitting position onto a LSB faster and less invasive than using the KED. Just my feeling on the equipment, not trying to get into a pissing match with anyone! Bryan

D25
06-12-2008, 14:05
D25: If you go by standards and protocols, yes the KED is used to infrequently. It is a specific piece of equipment that is only on the truck for one thing and by not using it I know we are opening ourselves up for possible liabilities. However, I feel myself and a few good trained helpers can remove and package a patient from a sitting position onto a LSB faster and less invasive than using the KED. Just my feeling on the equipment, not trying to get into a pissing match with anyone! Bryan

Gotcha!:highfive::drunk:

larry_minn
06-15-2008, 15:16
Last time I used a traction splint was on myself. I had a mid shaft femur break with ends far out of alignment. Brand new EMTs.. They stalled so I told them what to get and how to set it up/tighten it.
Seldom used KED/short board (yes SB) It shoudn't cause problem with pt movement.

D25
06-15-2008, 21:16
Last time I used a traction splint was on myself. I had a mid shaft femur break with ends far out of alignment. Brand new EMTs.. They stalled so I told them what to get and how to set it up/tighten it.
Seldom used KED/short board (yes SB) It shoudn't cause problem with pt movement.

On yourself!???!:wow::shocked::faint: Holy crap that musta smarted.

larry_minn
06-17-2008, 14:34
On yourself!???!:wow::shocked::faint: Holy crap that musta smarted.

Kinda, sorta, in a way. And yes it smarted.

I left AMA from one hospital after they screwed up once again and had treatment (plan) that was considered the norm. (at least during WW II)
Basicly with mid shaft femur break to hang 50 lbs of weights from a metal rod thru shin for a few months (when x-rays clearly show ends are NOT aligned verticalle/horezontally or even in length) THen put a spicka cast (think ankle to upper ribs) and then spend a few months in nursing home THEN physical therpy.... Plus wear shoes with a lift of few inchs.....
So I ordered my own set of x-rays from my room (guess I impersonated a Dr.) opps. I then sent those x-rays to a relative of mine who is a Othopedic surgen. He called and IIRC his comments were . First "why didn't you send me current x-rays instead of ones from night of your accident. ?" When I suggested he check dates on x-ray his next words were "Get the XYZABC out of that place ASAP"
Instead I tried to be diplomatic and met with Dr. and said I wanted to go to Mlps hospital where my sister works and wanted to be transfered. He refused. So I called them to come get me and notified him I was leaving that afternoon and I would like some pain meds for trip. He cancelled the ambulance (from another hospital mind you)
When I found out we had a "come to Jesus" and he had local ambulance take me and authorized some pain meds. He did not give any orders for transport needs so the service thought it was easy and sent two new folks. They had no idea how to work it. So I explained what gear to get/ how to hook it up/how far to tighten/pad and off we went. (with a extra shot of morphine along.) Thats the short version. :)