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chowchow
06-06-2008, 08:49
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/MAN109032.htm

Mukhang slightly used mga ito galeng ng SIngapore Military. Malaking tulong sa COIN ng AFP.


>>>>>>>>>>

Manila to buy 10 military helicopters from Singapore 04 Jun 2008 10:36:39 GMT
Source: Reuters
MANILA, June 4 (Reuters) - The Philippines is negotiating to buy 10 second-hand combat helicopters from Singapore to beef up the military's efforts to defeat Muslim and communist rebels, a senior general said on Wednesday.

The air force general, speaking on condition of anonymity, told Reuters the government had allocated 400 million pesos ($9 million) to buy the night-capable refurbished aircraft from Singapore in a commercial deal.

"This is not the first time we're entering into a deal with Singapore to acquire U.S.-made UH-1H helicopters," the general said, adding 20 similar single-engined aircraft had been transferred by Singapore in 2005.

The Philippines has 40 helicopters, mostly second-hand, donated by the United States as part of military assistance to fight communist New People's Army rebels and Muslim militants with ties to Jemaah Islamiah.

Last year, the government set aside nearly 8 billion pesos to acquire new attack helicopters and utility helicopters.

The new armed forces chief, Lieutenant-General Alexander Yano, said the military's aging hardware was affecting its ability to defend its borders.

"To be frank with you, our capability as far as these aspects are concerned is a little deficient," Yano told reporters on Wednesday.

"We cannot really defend all these areas because of the lack of equipment." (Reporting by Manny Mogato; Editing by Carmel Crimmins and David Fogarty)

Clusterbomb
06-09-2008, 22:24
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/MAN109032.htm

The new armed forces chief, Lieutenant-General Alexander Yano, said the military's aging hardware was affecting its ability to defend its borders.

"To be frank with you, our capability as far as these aspects are concerned is a little deficient," Yano told reporters on Wednesday.



Haay! Ang hirap talaga ng walang pera!

Aging hardware to be augmented by more second-hand hardware.

"a little deficient"? I wonder what would consitute a major deficiency.

userfriendly
06-10-2008, 04:00
To be frank with you, our capability as far as these aspects are concerned is a little deficient," Yano told reporters on Wednesday.


what an understatement :wow:

isuzu
06-10-2008, 20:01
Haay! Ang hirap talaga ng walang pera!

Aging hardware to be augmented by more second-hand hardware.

"a little deficient"? I wonder what would consitute a major deficiency.


As long as the UH-1H is properly maintained, the airframe could last a long time. I have previous posts regarding the UH-1H, which is one of the strongest airframes ever built. The Huey has evolved into the UH-1F "Iroquois," the UH-1N and the UH-1Y which are heavily used by the US Marines.

The Bell Helicopter website even refurbishes UH-1H helicopters. It's just a matter of maintaining the equipment.

BrassKnuckle
06-10-2008, 20:35
Haay! Ang hirap talaga ng walang pera!


Meron naman tayong pera. Napupunta nga lang sa bulsa ng iilan.

Sumaimpiyerno nawa sila. :steamed:

Clusterbomb
06-11-2008, 01:34
As long as the UH-1H is properly maintained, the airframe could last a long time. I have previous posts regarding the UH-1H, which is one of the strongest airframes ever built. The Huey has evolved into the UH-1F "Iroquois," the UH-1N and the UH-1Y which are heavily used by the US Marines.

The Bell Helicopter website even refurbishes UH-1H helicopters. It's just a matter of maintaining the equipment.

Sir, Isuzu, I'm not picking a fight with you ha? You are right- the Huey is one example of a good design that endures.

My first concern lang is how long we can really keep maintaining them. Sooner or later parts will be scarce because no one would make them or there wouldn't be enough to cannibalize from existing ones. Even if Bell or a third party would manufacture parts, I would imagine they would be expensive- the quantities would be too small (no economies of scale) or too specialized to manufacture cheaply. Add to that the fact that as the years go by, the number of flying Hueys all over the world will dwindle- crashes, retirement, etc. so that it would keep on being expensive to supply parts to a shrinking fleet. Prices are not cheap for a captive market.

Another thing is that both the civilian leadership and the brass do not seem to be interested in putting a transition program in place. How many more generations of pilots will they consign to flying just Hueys?

How enticing can that be career or skills-wise? Dapat yung ibang senior pilots i-train na nila sa next generation aircraft para maka-build up sila ng pool of mentors. Yung gustong mag-retiro sa Huey, pabayaan nila, pero yung mga bata pa, bigyan sana nila ng incentive to improve & learn something new.

If I were a new graduate of the PMA, I would think twice about becoming a chopper pilot- ang lagay, yan na lang ang matutunan kong paliparin? Wala nang iba? (fixed wing aircraft is even more in short supply, so that's another problem altogether). Mas maganda pa yata yung mga news helicopters na gamit ng civilian pilots (probably ex-AFP din sila) ngayon- mas bago, may night flying capability pa. The last time there was a big rally in the Republic of Makati, there was a news chopper that kept hovering above the Ayala-Paseo de Roxas junction well after the sun had set.

I'm just trying to look beyond the technical success of the Huey. Like the M113 APC, I also admire it as one of those rare mechanical designs that really endures. Kaso nga lang, we must also be realistic as how much more service we can squeeze out from it and plan now for a worthy successor. I just wish the authorities would be more forward looking kasi sayang din yung potential ng mga pilots natin.

BrassKnuckle
06-11-2008, 06:40
Did you see those big Russian-made cargo helicopters the Burmese govt used in the aftermath of that cyclone? Buti pa sila may ganon. Burma na nga lang yon...

Kawawa talaga tayo. "Helicopter airforce" na nga lang ang PAF, puro luma pa.

Clusterbomb
06-11-2008, 20:53
Did you see those big Russian-made cargo helicopters the Burmese govt used in the aftermath of that cyclone? Buti pa sila may ganon. Burma na nga lang yon...

Kawawa talaga tayo. "Helicopter airforce" na nga lang ang PAF, puro luma pa.

See, buti pa sila, may choppers for heavy lift duties. Tayo dito disaster prone din pero Huey pa rin inaasahan for relief work. They can only do so much. How many sacks of rice pwede isakay sa Huey? 10? 14? Not much, di ba? They say a Huey can lift about 1,400lbs on an external sling, pero (assuming our pilots are trained for that, though I've never seen/heard of any instance) can the airframes of our old Hueys allow that?

isuzu
06-11-2008, 21:53
Sir, Isuzu, I'm not picking a fight with you ha? I'm just trying to look beyond the technical success of the Huey. Like the M113 APC, I also admire it as one of those rare mechanical designs that really endures. Kaso nga lang, we must also be realistic as how much more service we can squeeze out from it and plan now for a worthy successor. I just wish the authorities would be more forward looking kasi sayang din yung potential ng mga pilots natin.

Clusterbomb, I understand your point. :) It's purely a matter of maintenance issues with our AFP. Any good equipment won't last without proper maintenance. I can't recall where I read it, but a lot of pilots still prefer the Huey platform over the Blackhawk. The Blackhawk is huge, and not as maneuverable as the Huey (and a very easy target for the enemy). And the Huey is easy to land in tight spaces because of its size. There was one disaster in the US where the first to land were the UH-1H of the National Guard because the pilots found landing spots perfect for the aircraft.

I believe that Bell will continue manufacturing parts for a long time for the UH1H so that their modernized Hueys (Huey II) will be attractive to potential buyers.

A lot of mothballed M113s were called back to active duty and sent to Iraq because of the failure of a supposed lightweight APC to stand up to IEDs.

cebuboy
06-11-2008, 22:47
Our mechanics at the air force did a good job of putting together this Huey II for SAR use.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i208/amochua/huey/DSC03579.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i208/amochua/huey/DSC03519.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i208/amochua/huey/DSC03584.jpg

BrassKnuckle
06-12-2008, 06:36
Whatever happened to the Sikorsky helicopter gunships that we had? They were famous during the EDSA revolution.

Mahina yata talaga tayo sa maintenance. We just use what we have until they fall apart or fall out of the sky, then wait for the next batch of dole-outs.

cebuboy
06-12-2008, 06:52
The Sikorsky was transferred to the presidential air wing.

Actually our boys do a very good job of maintaining their equipment. The Huey IIs were assembled using a new engine and tail section for the cobra.

isuzu
06-12-2008, 18:28
Whatever happened to the Sikorsky helicopter gunships that we had? They were famous during the EDSA revolution.

Mahina yata talaga tayo sa maintenance. We just use what we have until they fall apart or fall out of the sky, then wait for the next batch of dole-outs.

They were good (and fast) helicopters, but built for business use. I think it's only the Philippines that converted the S-76 to military use. There were, I believe, two that suffered tail rotor failures. Poor maintenance also contributed to its premature pull-out from combat duties. There was one I saw at Villamor that is being used for SAR.

Clusterbomb
06-12-2008, 20:18
I had the opportunity to observe and take pictures of an S-76 crew loading its rocket pod at the Camp Crame parade grounds during EDSA I. From the looks alone and the instrument layout in the cockpit, talagang generations apart sya from the Huey. Ilan na lang kaya ag operational units na natira?

Talagang beggars cannot be choosers. If we had money, we could really shop around, di ba? And we don't have to confine our choice of choppers to what the Kanos dish out.

CatsMeow
06-12-2008, 21:03
The ones I saw at Crame in the late 90s when they were still re-enacting the EDSA helicopter landings no longer had their weapons pylons, and there was a gap at the side doors where they used to be. The PAF was the only user of the AS-76, as Sikorsky called them, courtesy of then Secretary of State Alexander Haig.

The 1991 airshow, which featured Russian hardware, had among others a Mil Mi-17. The Russkies made it do aerobatics.

Classic aircraft can be kept flying years after they have long become obsolete, but then maintenance gets to be a problem. Take the DC-3, a number are still flying, there are companies that still stock spare parts, but I read those R1830s have been overhauled so many times that they've had it, and Pratt & Whitney had long stopped making them. Hence, they've been fitted with turboprops. This is the result:

http://www.baslerturbo.com/

But Philippine mechanics, either land or aviation, are miracle workers.:cool:

Clusterbomb
06-12-2008, 22:49
@catsmeow

Yeah, thats another classic. Weren't some of them fitted with 3 GE Miniguns, a wing sight and called "Puff the Magic Dragon" in 'Nam? The the grandlolo of today's C-130 Specters? Or was it a different plane?

CatsMeow
06-13-2008, 00:37
@catsmeow

Yeah, thats another classic. Weren't some of them fitted with 3 GE Miniguns, a wing sight and called "Puff the Magic Dragon" in 'Nam? The the grandlolo of today's C-130 Specters? Or was it a different plane?

Yes, the AC-47 "Puff the Magic Dragon". It was featured in the John Wayne movie "The Green Berets", where Puff sprayed the SF camp after it was overrun by the Viet Cong. It was followed by the AC-119, the twin-boom transport also fitted with miniguns, and finally the AC-130, which now included a 105mm howitzer and a 40mm Bofors gun.

When the South Americans received some AC-47s as aid from the US, they couldn't maintain the GE miniguns, so they substituted three Browning AN-M2 .50 caliber machineguns (the aircraft type); just as effective.

BTW, the DC-3 was also manufactured in Russia as the Lisunov Li-2, and also in Japan as the L2D, during World War II. So oddly two Pacific war enemies were using the same type of transport.

http://www.douglasdc3.com/japl2d/japl2d.htm