IDPA Barrel swap?

[nmstew]

I'm looking to get a 23C. (please no flame war over the who to compensate or not to compensate debate) I understand that compensated models are not IDPA legal, and with the price of ammo going up, I was planning on using a non-compensated 9mm barrel in the gun during IDPA matches. Would this make the gun legal for matches?

[DannyR]

I do not think that IDPA allows for a caliber change. Why not get a 19C and a G19 regular barrel?

The round count in IDPA matches is normally under 100, so you could also get your G23C and a regular G23 barrel.

[Bren]

I do not think that IDPA allows for a caliber change. Why not get a 19C and a G19 regular barrel?

The round count in IDPA matches is normally under 100, so you could also get your G23C and a regular G23 barrel.

Yes, IDPA allows a caliber change - it just moves the gun to ESP division instead of SSP.

[Jim Watson]

Yes, IDPA allows a caliber change - it just moves the gun to ESP division instead of SSP.

Better check with IDPA HQ before you buy big and shoot small.
One of our guys says Robert Ray told him that caliber conversion barrels were not allowable for Glocks in any Divisin.

[Joe D]

IDPA considers a 9mm conversion barrel to be a "bull barrel". In addition the G23 was never offered in 9mm. OTOH IDPA says you can have a bull barrel if the length is 4.3" or less. Hmmmmmmm.:whistling:

[Bren]

.IDPA considers a 9mm conversion barrel to be a "bull barrel". In addition the G23 was never offered in 9mm. OTOH IDPA says you can have a bull barrel if the length is 4.3" or less. Hmmmmmmm.
OK, I can see that one, sort of.

[SureThing]

If you only plan to do it casually, every so often, I don't anyone would care. At local matches here, no one has every checked anyones gun, holster, etc...

If you plan to compete seriously, or get too good at it, then someone woudl say something.

[Jim Watson]

OTOH IDPA says you can have a bull barrel if the length is 4.3" or less. Hmmmmmmm.:whistling:

That's "...factory installed cone style barrels on pistols with a barrel length of 4.2" or less." in the rule book.

[SureThing]

Useing the search feature int he IDPA rule book, here is what I have found.


PERMITTED Modifications (Inclusive list):
1. Sights may be changed to another conventional notch and
post type (see “sights” in glossary for further information).
2. Grips may be changed to another style or material that is
similar to factory configuration (no weighted grips; see
“weighted grips” in glossary for further details).
3. A slip-on grip sock and/or skateboard tape may be used.
4. Internal action work may be used to enhance trigger pull as
long as safety is maintained (no visible external modifications
allowed).
5. Reliability work may be done to enhance feeding and
ejection.
6. Internal accuracy may be worked to include replacement of
barrel with one of factory configuration and original caliber.
7. Plastic plugs may be used to fill the opening behind the
magazine well.

[SureThing]

EXCLUDED Modifications (NON-Inclusive list):
1. Externally visible modifications other than grips or sights.
2. Robar style grip reduction.
3. Add-on magazine well opening.
4. Guide rods made of a material different from the factory part
it replaces.
5. Seattle Slug Grip Plug and similar weighted products.
21
6. A barrel of another caliber that is not offered in the original
factory model.
7. Slide lightening (see “slide, lightening” in glossary for
further information).
8. Checkering and stippling.
9. Refer to Appendix ONE-A. Firearms-Non-IDPA-Legal
Modifications.
3. Enhanced Service Pistol Division (ES

[SureThing]

Seems clear to me the answer is NO

[MarkP]

if you were to use a G23 stock barrel (non-comp) you would be legal.

[Bren]

EXCLUDED Modifications (NON-Inclusive list):

6. A barrel of another caliber that is not offered in the original
factory model.
(ES
You are not quoting a rule applicable to all divisions; that is only for SSP. That section ahs nothing to do with whether it's legal in ESP, except that by stating what you quoted in SSP and not in ESP it makes it more clear that a caliber change IS allowed in ESP.

[matt m]

http://idpaforum.yuku.com/topic/3895/t/G23-to-G19-Conversion.html

[Joe D]

Bottom line is Robert said it was not legal. That kind of ends this debate.

[rvrctyrngr]

Yup...

[mpolans]

IMHO, this was one of *THE* dumbest rulings ever made in both IDPA and USPSA, but it's not legal in either for Production and SSP/ESP respectively.

[SureThing]

IMHO, this was one of *THE* dumbest rulings ever made in both IDPA and USPSA, but it's not legal in either for Production and SSP/ESP respectively.

The dumbest rule is not to allow stippeling, or frame mods. If you remove your finger grooves, you have a Non Legal IDPA pistol

[murph2127]

IMHO, this was one of *THE* dumbest rulings ever made in both IDPA and USPSA, but it's not legal in either for Production and SSP/ESP respectively.

The answer is LAWYERS!!!!

Glock doesn't recommend the caliber swap. So if IDPA or USPSA were to permit it they would be allowing something the manuf. considers dangerous. An actionable position to take to be sure.

What if someone got hurt? It would be "yournameDPA" or "yournamePSA" after that ;)

[mpolans]

The answer is LAWYERS!!!!

Glock doesn't recommend the caliber swap. So if IDPA or USPSA were to permit it they would be allowing something the manuf. considers dangerous. An actionable position to take to be sure.

What if someone got hurt? It would be "yournameDPA" or "yournamePSA" after that ;)
While you can blame lawyers for many things, this stupid rule isn't one of them. There are many things regularly done in USPSA (and sometimes in IDPA) that a manufacturer wouldn't recommend, such as disabling a grip safety (even if it is a useless idea) or loading ammo to pressures in excess of SAAMI specs (regularly done in USPSA for open division and sometimes in limited and production).

However, a barrel swap isn't one of them. If it were truly a liability issue, I'd hardly think Lone Wolf and others would be selling so many of them. On a personal note, I've never seen a safety issue caused by a conversion barrel.

This only reasoning I've ever heard for this reg was that because the barrel would be heavier than the equivalent factory configuration, it was a bull barrel. In other words, a Glock 35 with a 9mm conversion barrel would way more than a Glock 34. That said, the difference in weight is so incredibly small that there's no competitive advantage gained. Furthermore, the difference in weight is so small that it is well below the allowance allowed in USPSA Production (and IIRC IDPA's SSP). I think the rulings weren't well thought out when they were made.

End result, if you own a Glock 35 and want to save money by shooting 9mm in an ammo intensive discipline like USPSA or IDPA, you have to buy a whole new gun. I think this rule really only serves to discourage participation without any redeeming value.

[ecmills]

The answer is LAWYERS!!!!

Glock doesn't recommend the caliber swap. So if IDPA or USPSA were to permit it they would be allowing something the manuf. considers dangerous...
They do allow it. In ESP.

[murph2127]

They do allow it. In ESP.

No they don't. IDPA has deemed a caliber swap (such as putting a 9mm barrel in a .40 gun) to be illegal in IDPA. This was per Bill Wilson FWIW.

Ted

[murph2127]

While you can blame lawyers for many things, this stupid rule isn't one of them. There are many things regularly done in USPSA (and sometimes in IDPA) that a manufacturer wouldn't recommend, such as disabling a grip safety (even if it is a useless idea) or loading ammo to pressures in excess of SAAMI specs (regularly done in USPSA for open division and sometimes in limited and production).
.

Disabling a grip safety is illegal in IDPA and there are words pertaining to ESR about guns making the power factor safely.

Like it or not, it is IDPA's policy. Call them if you want to. R.Ray at HQ did not know Bill Wilson's full idea as to why they are making them illegal but he suspected it was a liability issue.

I really don't care what you do but I would really hate to see someone get DQ'ed at a major match for doing it which is why I spoke up to begin with.

Ted Murphy
MD 2008 IDPA Nationals.

[mpolans]

Disabling a grip safety is illegal in IDPA and there are words pertaining to ESR about guns making the power factor safely.

Like it or not, it is IDPA's policy. Call them if you want to. R.Ray at HQ did not know Bill Wilson's full idea as to why they are making them illegal but he suspected it was a liability issue.

I really don't care what you do but I would really hate to see someone get DQ'ed at a major match for doing it which is why I spoke up to begin with.

Ted Murphy
MD 2008 IDPA Nationals.
I also stated the rule, despite my disagreeing with the rationale...so why the atttitude? Regarding disabling grip safeties and making power factor, while the original poster was asking about IDPA, I was addressing the broad attack on lawyers. FWIW, not everyone shoots I Don't Practice Anymore exclusively. As far as Wilson's thoughts, I doubt Wilson gave it much thought beyond, "I don't make conversion barrels, so this ruling won't affect how many Wilson Combat products I sell."

[Joe D]

Here comes the IPSC vs IDPA crowd. Mpolans, let's don't go there. Take off your Mall Ninja outfit and show some maturity.
Anyone that shoots competitively is my bud.

[Jim Watson]

I was addressing the broad attack on lawyers...

As far as Wilson's thoughts, I doubt Wilson gave it much thought beyond, "I don't make conversion barrels, so this ruling won't affect how many Wilson Combat products I sell."

But it's allright to attack Bill Wilson? A look at the line count of guns by make and model at the Nationals shows he is not making a lot of sales off of IDPA. More Glocks than anything. Isn't Gaston the one that has a game that allows nothing but his products? I don't see anybody whining about not being able to shoot GSSF with a Smith & Wesson.