Pizza Hut Killing Employees?

[magiaaron]

For those interested in working for Pizza Hut, it might be worth knowing that if you are attacked by a gunman and defend your life, you will be fired immediately for doing so.

This is precisely what happened to former Pizza Hut deliveryman James Spiers on March 27, 2008. Mr. Spiers, a 10 year employee of Pizza Hut and a legal concealed-carry permit holder in the state of Iowa was viciously attacked by a crazed gunman that was lying in wait for him as he was delivering pizzas. The alleged gunman, 19 year-old Kenneth Alonzo Jimmerson trapped Mr. Spiers in the apartment building lobby and attempted to rob him at gunpoint. Mr. Spiers fought back against the gunman and, during the struggle, Mr. Spiers was able to wrestle away long enough to draw his own (legally carried) weapon and fire it at his attacker. His attacker fled after being struck by the bullet from Mr. Spiers' handgun, and was arrested and charged with robbery in the first degree. The assailant's alleged accomplice, Melanie Elaine Stout, was also arrested and charged with conspiracy to commit a felony for ordering the pizza with the intent of luring Mr. Spiers to the apartment building. The police immediately ruled Mr. Spiers' use of his weapon as a justifiable shooting.

What happened next was even more shocking than the ordeal that Mr. Spiers had already gone through. Upon word of Mr. Spiers survival of his near-death experience reaching management at Pizza Hut, he was immediately fired. According to Pizza Hut, their policy forbids any employee (even those acting completely within the accordance of state law), from being in possession of a weapon while working. So, although Mr. Spiers was a loyal, law-abiding employee, Pizza Hut felt it necessary to punish him when he defended his life. Should he have not been legally carrying a firearm with him that night while out working for this heartless corporation, he would have likely ended up in the obituary section of the next day's paper. Yet, Pizza Hut seems not to care at all. Then again, why would they? They, apparently, have no concern for their employees' lives.

For that reason, it is recommended that all those who believe it should be a person's right to protect themselves from crazed gunmen let Pizza Hut know how they feel about this inflexible policy that costs the jobs of good, hardworking Americans when they fight back against armed robbers.

You can voice your disgust by calling Pizza Hut at: http://click2voice.com/images/phuri/c2vlink_icon.gif800-948-8488

or by visiting their contact section on their website:
http://www.pizzahut.com/contactus/contactusform.aspx?l1=2024


-Aaron

[Jeff82]

I no longer buy from Pizza/Pasta Hut. For this very reason. I won't support a pro-criminal organization.

[magiaaron]

I no longer buy from Pizza/Pasta Hut. For this very reason. I won't support a pro-criminal organization.

+1 I'm proud when I see people actually voting with their wallets. That's what I'm doing and I wrote them saying such. They ask if you want to receive a call about your issue, and I said, "YES!". Hopefully more people will react the way you have and let them see how many of us care about this issue.

-magiaaron

[Jeff82]

+1 I'm proud when I see people actually voting with their wallets. That's what I'm doing and I wrote them saying such. They ask if you want to receive a call about your issue, and I said, "YES!". Hopefully more people will react the way you have and let them see how many of us care about this issue.

-magiaaron

I always let management know when they've lost (or gained) money because of their policies. I don't want there to be any doubt as to why a (potential) customer did what they did.

[cjlandry]

To be fair, you'd probably best not order any pizza for delivery, because all of the major chains are more than likely to have such a no weapons policy.

It was still his choice to carry against company policy, and I don't believe he'll starve to death over losing his job. Regardless, I'll remember this incident when I order pizza. I ordered a pizza yesterday. I expect delivery about 30 hours from now.

[Jeff82]

To be fair, you'd probably best not order any pizza for delivery, because all of the major chains are more than likely to have such a no weapons policy.

It was still his choice to carry against company policy, and I don't believe he'll starve to death over losing his job. Regardless, I'll remember this incident when I order pizza. I ordered a pizza yesterday. I expect delivery about 30 hours from now.

That's why I only order from an outfit that allows their drivers to protect themselves.

[willy1094]

That's too bad, I love Pizza Hut pizza but no more for me!

*edit to add that I have sent Pizza Hut a message via the link above. Thanks to the OP for the link!

[uhlawpup]

You shouldn't order pizza from them for a very important reason other than their weapons policy. The food is bad for your body.

[Fear Night]

This would happen anywhere. If you break company policy with a big corporation you are punished, no questions asked. You are only a number to them and easily replaceable.

[Blitzer]

That's why I only order from an outfit that allows their drivers to protect themselves.

And that would be whom? :dunno:

[magiaaron]

This would happen anywhere. If you break company policy with a big corporation you are punished, no questions asked. You are only a number to them and easily replaceable.

This is true. And that's why standing up for our fellow concealed carry people is important. We're only a number to them. BUT, we control the number that matters to them: Their profit.

-magiaaron

[N4tbg]

This is true. And that's why standing up for our fellow concealed carry people is important. We're only a number to them. BUT, we control the number that matters to them: Their profit.

-magiaaron

We need a sticky in Carry Issues dedicated to businesses that we should not patronize. The Glock Serial Number Research Project (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412093) is a great example of the format that could be used. Break it down into global, national and states.

[Beware Owner]

We can make an example of Pizza Hut, hopefully the rest will straighten out their act before they too are boycotted. Once criminals find out that pizza boy is packin, then the company itself will cut losses in lost wages, transportation expenses, and materials, which is what is lost when they're robbed. You can count on me making my call.

Well, I did, and I apparently need to call between 11am to 12 pm, the automated line hung up on me. You need to choose option 2. I'll call back.

[Buki192327]

I don't buy my pizza from the chain operations. I only buy from the local Mom & Pop operation. Get better quality. They don't have drivers getting robbed, shot or killed, as they don't deliver. If I want pizza bad enough I will go pick it up myself. Shops like this still do exist.

[blackjack]

I understand and support making choices based on strongly-held principles. I have my own personal boycotts of certain products for various reasons. However, in the case of Pizza Hut/Domino's/Mazzio's, etc., you have to understand that the policies are all based on the reality of how the courts operate in civil liability cases, otherwise known as "sue the deep pockets" by the plaintiff bar.

Here is the way it would work from a corporate lawyer perspective: Joe Pizzaguy is making a delivery in a sketchy part of town so he has some "protection" under his jacket, Javon Homeslice sees him pull up with his cartop sign and decides he can get a two-fer by jacking up Joe at gunpoint for the pizza and the money, Joe pulls out his heater and ventilates Javon but doesn't kill him, Javon is a paraplegic that is wheeled into court for the jury's pity, ka-ching goes payoff from Corporate Pizza Inc. From the CPI perspective, they can keep their pockets closed by having a strong policy on firearms because they only have to pay Worker's Comp rates for the death/injury of an employee (lower than civil liability) and are shielded from further action by the Worker's Comp laws.

[zoyter2]

What a stupid thread title. I guess appropriate for the cause.

I fully understand Pizza Hut's policy. If you don't want to be unprotected, find another minimum wage job that allows you to carry. If you choose to carry after being told not to and get fire, so what?

How many people here have had to fight for EVERY GD PENNY YOU HAVE, EVERY PENNY YOU WILL MAKE IN THE FUTURE, YOUR HOME, YOUR CAR AND YOUR LIFE, just because of the stupidity of some other individual?

How many people here would gamble your home and job NOW on the fact that the next random guy you encounter will be trained well enough to react properly when using a gun? Do you people ever go to a public range? Want to bet on THOSE guys?

Why the hell would you expect Pizza Hut to do so when YOU won"t?

[Yellowfin]

And that would be whom? :dunno:Smaller mom and pop chains. I asked my local place if they support drivers' rights to carry and they said absolutely. (Of course the catch is where we live it has to be unloaded OC, but we're working on that.)

[speedlace]

Another reason not to buy from Pizza Hut.

:)

[Dean]

They fired the guy, for NOT getting murdered on the job?
I'm boycotting Pizza Hut. I can make my OWN pizza, standing there wearing my Glock.
You think I'm kidding? I open carry in my house, when I cook. That way, I can have all the windows and doors open and nothing can happen.

[crash_gsxr750]

i voted with my stomach (pizza hut is aweful)

but here's another reason not to buy that chit

[Daryl in Az]

For those interested in working for Pizza Hut, it might be worth knowing that if you are attacked by a gunman and defend your life, you will be fired immediately for doing so.


So, the big question is:

Would you rather keep your life, and lose your job, or lose your life, and keep your job?

Just what I always wanted; some dead dude bringing me pizza!

Daryl

[liberty addict]

I understand and support making choices based on strongly-held principles. I have my own personal boycotts of certain products for various reasons. However, in the case of Pizza Hut/Domino's/Mazzio's, etc., you have to understand that the policies are all based on the reality of how the courts operate in civil liability cases, otherwise known as "sue the deep pockets" by the plaintiff bar.

Here is the way it would work from a corporate lawyer perspective: Joe Pizzaguy is making a delivery in a sketchy part of town so he has some "protection" under his jacket, Javon Homeslice sees him pull up with his cartop sign and decides he can get a two-fer by jacking up Joe at gunpoint for the pizza and the money, Joe pulls out his heater and ventilates Javon but doesn't kill him, Javon is a paraplegic that is wheeled into court for the jury's pity, ka-ching goes payoff from Corporate Pizza Inc. From the CPI perspective, they can keep their pockets closed by having a strong policy on firearms because they only have to pay Worker's Comp rates for the death/injury of an employee (lower than civil liability) and are shielded from further action by the Worker's Comp laws.

True. But we should trumpet loud and clear everyplace we can the FLIP side of this policy -- the necessary implication that the corporation doesn't give a rats' behind about Joe Pizzaguy that works for them -- if he dies while delivering pizza for them, that is just too frickin' bad.

I tell my students at college (computer science students) about this stuff. They get it. :cool:

[Yellowfin]

I understand and support making choices based on strongly-held principles. I have my own personal boycotts of certain products for various reasons. However, in the case of Pizza Hut/Domino's/Mazzio's, etc., you have to understand that the policies are all based on the reality of how the courts operate in civil liability cases, otherwise known as "sue the deep pockets" by the plaintiff bar.

Here is the way it would work from a corporate lawyer perspective: Joe Pizzaguy is making a delivery in a sketchy part of town so he has some "protection" under his jacket, Javon Homeslice sees him pull up with his cartop sign and decides he can get a two-fer by jacking up Joe at gunpoint for the pizza and the money, Joe pulls out his heater and ventilates Javon but doesn't kill him, Javon is a paraplegic that is wheeled into court for the jury's pity, ka-ching goes payoff from Corporate Pizza Inc. From the CPI perspective, they can keep their pockets closed by having a strong policy on firearms because they only have to pay Worker's Comp rates for the death/injury of an employee (lower than civil liability) and are shielded from further action by the Worker's Comp laws.Big corps like Pizzaglut have good lawyers. The jury can be told quite simply "Don't want to end up like that guy? Simple, don't try to jack our drivers! Is that hard to understand? Can't avoid breaking the law then STFU." There is no way in hell you can uphold someone trying to forcibly rob a pizza guy, period. A simple standard corporate policy of drivers are given specific instruction to only shoot in defense of their lives when threatened would be iron clad.

I for one support laws to make companies and their management infinitely liable for any and all exclusion of CCW or OC by employees. Trying to avoid liability? Then allow employee carry or it's on you. If you've got a judge with a problem with that then kick them out of their job and see to it they never work again.

[MEM10G23]

What a coincident, I was seriousley about to go to pizza hut for lunch while my car gets worked on. This story just put a sour taste in my mouth, I always thought they were allowed to carry

[B.Reid]

If I worked there I would defend myself and accept the firing.

[wtchdr4011]

Delivery people in my town use their personal vehicles to deliver. Screw 'em I carry in my car. My car, my gas, my life.

[Beware Owner]

Delivery people in my town use their personal vehicles to deliver. Screw 'em I carry in my car. My car, my gas, my life.

I believe it becomes a hired vehicle once you put the sign on it and clock in.

[PicklePilot]

Most convinience stores have this policy as well.

[urfavghost]

I am a driver for pizza hut, and even though it may be crappy that I would get fired for using my gun they make do not make it obvious I would get in trouble for carrying. Also every major chain has the rule that drivers are in no way supposed to protect themselves unless they are being draged inside a house or car, i'm guessing some bigshot lawyer came up w/ this. For the record I hate working for pizza hut and am only doing it to get through school. LOL something else to chew on most pizza places not only do there best to not pya docotors bills if u get hurt on a run they also do not reemburse ur tips and expect u to repay the store for any lost sales or product

[windplex]

I no longer buy from Pizza/Pasta Hut. For this very reason. I won't support a pro-criminal organization.

It is important to let them know why you have stopped patronizing them. Otherwise they could easily conclude a drop in sales was due to any number of market reasons.

[wtchdr4011]

I believe it becomes a hired vehicle once you put the sign on it and clock in.

I would still carry.

[kensteele]

This story just put a sour taste in my mouth, I always thought they were allowed to carry

this is a [new] story? doubt it. outside the first paragraph, it's mostly just someone's opinion, very few facts.

if you feel that strongly about it, you shouldn't have been eating there and supporting them in the first place. that policy has been in place for a long long time. why wait until they fire somebody to raise a fit?

[buckhunter3987]

My feedback.

Just to let you know you have lost me as a customer. Mr. James Spiers in Iowa was wrongfully discharged after defending his life while delivering your pizza. He violated no laws, only exersized his right to protect his life. I realize that he was only a number to the corporate office, but by saving his own life, he also saved, albeit a small amount, the revenues you had earned that evening. You should be giving him comendation for helping to remove more scum from from our cest pool of a society. Instead, you support crime and scum with your anti-gun, anti-selfdefense policies. I hope you see the error in your ways and revise your unconstitutional rules.
Thank You, Have a nice day.

[PicklePilot]

Unfortunately, the issue here is protecting yourself inspite of what could be the liability issue, rules, regs, laws ect..

I posit that a few kids, even underage have been given guns to carry while attending college, a few people take them to work, a few teachers take them to schools....hard to stomach anyone without serious martial arts training feels safe running in central park and not packing, or someone that leaves the bar in a bad part of town isn't....

I think this going to be about discretion...we all want to be legal, keep our jobs, not get in trouble, but I think as the rules and laws possibly get tougher, your circumstance dictates taking measures to protect yourself, then you have a choice...get raped in that parking lot, but keep your job, .... or be discrete, and if you have to shoot the bad guy you can..worry about your job later...

Besides, if you get jacked at 7-11, or some psycho at work that just go fired starts taking out people in thier cubicles, one by one, trust me, dropping the guy before he get's to the boss's office, will probably get you a raise before you get fired....depends on how you handle it.

[gary newport]

if you feel that strongly about it, you shouldn't have been eating there and supporting them in the first place. that policy has been in place for a long long time. why wait until they fire somebody to raise a fit?

Unless one worked for the outfit, how would one know what their employee policies are? :dunno: I've never been given an employee's handbook to go with the pizza I ordered! :whistling:

[Jeff82]

And that would be whom? :dunno:

My local Papa John's.

[Jeff82]

It is important to let them know why you have stopped patronizing them. Otherwise they could easily conclude a drop in sales was due to any number of market reasons.

(See post #4.)

:thumbsup:

[GPalmer]

I no longer buy from Pizza/Pasta Hut. For this very reason. I won't support a pro-criminal organization.
+1, I used to buy quite a bit from them, now I make it myself...

[DonGlock26]

A dead employee is cheaper than a dead criminal suspect. Thank our legal system- the one that gave Al Qaeda terrorists US constitutional rights.


That said, no more PH for me and mine.

[Big Al 24]

No more Pizza hut here. And as a side bonus I'll probably save on toilet paper too. :rofl:
And it's freaking Pizza hut! Just carry and lose the job. My employer can't dictate certain aspects of my life and ultimately if I survive the incident I'll be happy to pound the pavement to look for new employment.

[Dandapani]

We need a sticky in Carry Issues dedicated to businesses that we should not patronize. The Glock Serial Number Research Project (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412093) is a great example of the format that could be used. Break it down into global, national and states.

Thank you.

[B-Dog]

I can make my OWN pizza, standing there wearing my Glock.
You think I'm kidding?



Ummm... No?

[mike1969]

NO pizza hut for me. Now there are several mom and pop places here in town that make some killer pizza. I know of one that has a policy, if the store gets robbed, the robber is going to get shot. The manager lets the drivers carry along as they have a permit. How do I know this??? He is a member at the range where I shoot. Last year one of his drivers was shot by a 15 yr old thug.

[desco20]

Big corporations don't need to go to court, they usually settle to keep down the bad publicity. The company I work for ( I won't say) has been sued many times, and they usually settle and the case leaves the public eye.

[eclipse13]

For the record, know that I deliver for Domino's and they have this same policy. I'm not even allowed to carry the pocket folder that I do while I drive. My manager knows about it and doesn't care, but the district manager and higher ups don't know. Also, while I am not 21 yet, I plan on carrying when I turn 21. I'd rather be fired than die, it is as simple as that.

[liberty addict]

Most convinience stores have this policy as well.

You mean, other than the mom & pop convenience stores -- such as the one me and my wife own. :cool:

I've been in the back office of a 7-11 store. It is disgusting to read their list of what to do in case of a robbery. (May as well say "bend over and kiss your *** goodbye). Oh, I know THEY think what they recommend will MINIMIZE your risk of injury. Maybe true, unless the crooks are determined to eliminate all witnesses. If the corporate lawyers are so convinced that their policy works, I wish them luck trying it out when they find themselves under violent criminal attack. They still probably wouldn't change their minds though. :upeyes:

[Oldskoolfan]

By this logic we would be boycotting Walmart, Costco, Target, Bestbuy, and thousands of other businesses for not letting their employees carry. I believe that it is silly to do such a thing. The real issue is the court system and not the company who is only trying to better protect themselves from a civil court system gone wild.

[Oldskoolfan]

A dead employee is cheaper than a dead criminal suspect. Thank our legal system- the one that gave Al Qaeda terrorists US constitutional rights.
You mean accused Al Quaeda terrorists US Constitutional rights which are endowed to all men and women by the creator.

[Oldskoolfan]

So you can enter a contract when you take the job and break it? If you agree to follow the rules in the handbook it is ok to break them because you don't like them? That is pretty dishonest. Why not tell your employer that you wish to carry and that you will accept the job as long as you can carry a firearm with you while on the clock?

[Yellowfin]

By this logic we would be boycotting Walmart, Costco, Target, Bestbuy, and thousands of other businesses for not letting their employees carry. I believe that it is silly to do such a thing. The real issue is the court system and not the company who is only trying to better protect themselves from a civil court system gone wild. Target doesn't allow their employees to carry? No wonder they have the company name on their shirts then.

[EAJuggalo]

My local Papa John's.
Not if that Papa John's is in line with Corporate Policies. I've worked as a driver for Pizza Hut and both driver and General Manager for Papa John's, both companies have the same policies with regards to weapons in the workplace. It took me 4 years to get my franchise group to start complying with state law stating that employers may not prohibit permit holders from having weapons in their vehicles on company property.

I've had drivers for me that carried and they understood that if their sidearms ever had to be used or were seen that I would have no choice but to end their employment. They all stated to me that if they had to draw their jobs would be the least of their worries.

[w4004p]

i ran some pie in between LE jobs. one mgr found out i was armed and asked me to keep in my vehicle. another mgr found out and said NO WAY, you keep it ON YOU. word finally made it back to the actual owner of the company and he was like - this guy's former LE? has a permit? will he hang out til closing? one of the mgr's had been badly beaten by three robbers, upon leaving the store, the majority of the mgr's were happy to hear i was doin my part to help.

[Critias]

To be fair, you'd probably best not order any pizza for delivery, because all of the major chains are more than likely to have such a no weapons policy.
You also shouldn't ever buy gas or smokes or sodas or snacks from any convenience store, ever.

Almost every business that can have a "no resistance" or "no weapons" policy will have such a policy. It's disgusting and emasculating, sure, but to them it makes good business sense -- they can discourage their employees from resisting, or they can be held liable for what some schmuck would no doubt call encouraging their employees to get into fights with armed criminals, and then they'd get their ass taken to court by some crippled used-to-run-a-cash-register employee.

I imagine it's much like the "call for help, don't carry a weapon!" mantra that cops often spout to women in rape prevention articles, the "it worked...this time, but it was very dangerous!" warnings that cops always give after a CCW defended his life with his firearm, and similar such nonsense sound bites. It's not the cops really feeling that way, it's the police department covering it's butt.

Same gig with rob-o-matic business chains that tell their employees to never, ever, fight back. It all comes down to dollar signs and out litigious society. If they didn't tell folks NOT to fight back, someone would fight back because "the company told me to," and then the company would get sued.

Is it a bite out of a crap sandwich to work at a place like that? Sure. I did my time at a Shell station. I used to get my pay docked for the amount of any drive offs, but I also got written up if I ever trotted out of the store to catch a drive off and demand payment. It was a catch 22. I couldn't do anything to stop anyone from ripping us off, but if we got ripped off on my watch, I got in trouble. I also worked thirds twice a week, and wasn't allowed to carry. Did it suck? Yeah. Sure. But I knew the rules when I started to work there, and I sucked it up and took the job because I needed to work.

Same thing with the disarmed folks working chain convenience stores, the disarmed pizza delivery drivers, or those who arm themselves and/or put up a fight in the result of such an attack in defiance of company policy. They knew the rules when they signed up (or, if they didn't, they SHOULD have). It sucks, but that's life. Get a better job, get a different job, play by the company rules...or be prepared to handle the consequences (like getting fired).

[Yrdawg]

What a stupid thread title. I guess appropriate for the cause.

I fully understand Pizza Hut's policy. If you don't want to be unprotected, find another minimum wage job that allows you to carry. If you choose to carry after being told not to and get fire, so what?

How many people here have had to fight for EVERY GD PENNY YOU HAVE, EVERY PENNY YOU WILL MAKE IN THE FUTURE, YOUR HOME, YOUR CAR AND YOUR LIFE, just because of the stupidity of some other individual?

How many people here would gamble your home and job NOW on the fact that the next random guy you encounter will be trained well enough to react properly when using a gun? Do you people ever go to a public range? Want to bet on THOSE guys?

Why the hell would you expect Pizza Hut to do so when YOU won"t?



Sir....You need anger mgmt.

AND I for one make it a point to react in the negative when called you people

Remember your constitutional right to remain silent when your stupid level is high

You'd really like my suggestion that if an employer requires you to be unprotected he then becomes liable for any and all damages to you.

Criminal, Civil, everything (called Dawgs Law round here)

[Yrdawg]

You also shouldn't ever buy gas or smokes or sodas or snacks from any convenience store, ever.

Almost every business that can have a "no resistance" or "no weapons" policy will have such a policy. It's disgusting and emasculating, sure, but to them it makes good business sense -- they can discourage their employees from resisting, or they can be held liable for what some schmuck would no doubt call encouraging their employees to get into fights with armed criminals, and then they'd get their ass taken to court by some crippled used-to-run-a-cash-register employee.

I imagine it's much like the "call for help, don't carry a weapon!" mantra that cops often spout to women in rape prevention articles, the "it worked...this time, but it was very dangerous!" warnings that cops always give after a CCW defended his life with his firearm, and similar such nonsense sound bites. It's not the cops really feeling that way, it's the police department covering it's butt.

Same gig with rob-o-matic business chains that tell their employees to never, ever, fight back. It all comes down to dollar signs and out litigious society. If they didn't tell folks NOT to fight back, someone would fight back because "the company told me to," and then the company would get sued.

Is it a bite out of a crap sandwich to work at a place like that? Sure. I did my time at a Shell station. I used to get my pay docked for the amount of any drive offs, but I also got written up if I ever trotted out of the store to catch a drive off and demand payment. It was a catch 22. I couldn't do anything to stop anyone from ripping us off, but if we got ripped off on my watch, I got in trouble. I also worked thirds twice a week, and wasn't allowed to carry. Did it suck? Yeah. Sure. But I knew the rules when I started to work there, and I sucked it up and took the job because I needed to work.

Same thing with the disarmed folks working chain convenience stores, the disarmed pizza delivery drivers, or those who arm themselves and/or put up a fight in the result of such an attack in defiance of company policy. They knew the rules when they signed up (or, if they didn't, they SHOULD have). It sucks, but that's life. Get a better job, get a different job, play by the company rules...or be prepared to handle the consequences (like getting fired).



LOL...........another roll me over and do me againer heard from.....

ITS THE RULES might be on your head stone one day, if the Pizza Hut drivers memorial fund pays for it that is

[Oldskoolfan]

Sir....You need anger mgmt.

AND I for one make it a point to react in the negative when called you people

Remember your constitutional right to remain silent when your stupid level is high

You'd really like my suggestion that if an employer requires you to be unprotected he then becomes liable for any and all damages to you.

Criminal, Civil, everything (called Dawgs Law round here)

Do you have a Constitutional right to carry on my property? If the employer says no guns, then it should be no guns. Anyone who disobeys the agreed upon rules when they took the job is a liar.

How is the employer requiring you to be unprotected? It just means no guns or weapons. If you cannot figure out that a gun is only a tool and that your wits are the weapon then you are in trouble. If you don't like the rules find another job. Its simple as that.

[desco20]

This goes to show you if you use your weapon, run like hell out of there so you can keep your job:supergrin:

[cjlandry]

AND I for one make it a point to react in the negative when called you people

I make it a point to not let non-PC terms upset me. "You people" is really the silliest term over which to get upset.

LOL...........another roll me over and do me againer heard from.....

ITS THE RULES might be on your head stone one day, if the Pizza Hut drivers memorial fund pays for it that is

The man speaks the truth. Those are the rules at just about every company who bothers to have a policy on such things. Those companies whose employees are subject to a higher than normal rate of armed robberies are highly likely to have a non-resistance rule for such situations.

You gotta weigh your need for a job against your desire to survive such things. I wouldn't go shooting at a drive-off at the gas station, but I'd be prepared for the worst case scenario, job be damned.

That's just me, though. Some folks believe that they follow every single rule in their company's book. That's their business.

[Critias]

LOL...........another roll me over and do me againer heard from.....

ITS THE RULES might be on your head stone one day, if the Pizza Hut drivers memorial fund pays for it that is
Maybe I was unclear in my post since I didn't use fancy colors, all capitalized letters, or enough smileys to accomodate you -- I no longer work at such an establishment (for part of my employment there it didn't matter, I was under 21 anyways), and I now carry whenever I'm able. I'm not particularly proud of the couple years I spent manning a register at a gas station (the job itself), but I'm not ashamed of the time I spent there, either. I was living on my own, paying my own way through college, not borrowing money from anyone or leeching off society as a whole. I worked a crappy job with crappy rules, but I stood on my own two feet while I did so. Lots of folks can't say the same.

That stated, I was mostly out to explain to people that you've got a lot more businesses than just Pizza Hut, and in fact more business than just pizza delivery companies, to take issue with if you're going to stage a boycott as a result of a "no weapons/no resistance" policy when it comes to being robbed. There are all kinds of stores across the country that have it very clearly stated what employees are, and are not, to do in case of a workplace robbery or other crime.

What's more, my point (coming in part from the perspective of someone who used to work at such an establishment) was that those employees know that ahead of time, and have three options as adults. They can choose to seek gainful employment elsewhere. They can work at that establishment and follow the rules (perhaps to their own detriment, by way of workplace violence). They can work at that establishment and not follow the rules (perhaps to their own detriment in other ways, like being punished by the company).

This guy rolled the dice and carried while delivering pizza, in express disobedience with his employer's clearly written rules. He gambled, and in this case it both paid off and didn't. He won the game, because he didn't die. He lost the game, because he then got fired. That was his choice to make. I don't feel sorry for him either way -- I think it's a crappy situation, but I'm also not surprised or in any way surprised to read about it. It's happened before, and it will likely happen again. It is not an isolated incident, it's just the way the system works.

[Bozz]

I think that Pizza Hut should have paid for some formal firearms training for that guy, since he didn't mortally wound that scumbag who had ambushed him....LOL!

Pizza Hut should not have fired him, even though he broke policy. This guy is alive today because of his actions, and Pizza Hut should be happy about it. Reprimand, yes... fire him... NO way.

I'm now glad that the Pizza Hut around the corner from me is gone. I don't have any Pizza place deliver to me... I go pick it up or patronize mom & pop places because I like them better.

Bozz

[Jeff82]

i ran some pie in between LE jobs. one mgr found out i was armed and asked me to keep in my vehicle. another mgr found out and said NO WAY, you keep it ON YOU. word finally made it back to the actual owner of the company and he was like - this guy's former LE? has a permit? will he hang out til closing? one of the mgr's had been badly beaten by three robbers, upon leaving the store, the majority of the mgr's were happy to hear i was doin my part to help.
I'm happy for you but that really burns me up. It take it that if I wasn't LE, didn't have that little piece of gov't issued paper that my life is any less worth protecting?! Yet they turn around and want to sponge of of your commitment to taking the steps and spending the money to be able to protect you and yours. I'd charge a fee for my "protection". :supergrin:

[Jeff82]

Not if that Papa John's is in line with Corporate Policies. I've worked as a driver for Pizza Hut and both driver and General Manager for Papa John's, both companies have the same policies with regards to weapons in the workplace. It took me 4 years to get my franchise group to start complying with state law stating that employers may not prohibit permit holders from having weapons in their vehicles on company property.

I've had drivers for me that carried and they understood that if their sidearms ever had to be used or were seen that I would have no choice but to end their employment. They all stated to me that if they had to draw their jobs would be the least of their worries.

"LALALALALALALA" (fingers in ears...)

Now I'm gonna have to go and verify... Shucks, they make real good pizza too. I know I read last year one of their drivers used a gun to defend himself during a robbery and was basically hailed as a hero, even by the company. Now I'm gonna havta check that out again too.

[Jeff82]

Every person has the right to defend themselves. Firearms are the best way to do that in most situations.

There is a difference between private property like your home and property that is used by employees and the public at large.

The only place there should be any restrictions allowed is on your own personal private property. Anything else is a violation of a person's civil and natural right to self defense.

You tell me I can't carry a gun at your house, I don't even want to be around you anyway because you suck. You won't have to worry about me coming to your private property because I don't hang around people who suck.

In my world anyway.

[zoyter2]

Sir....You need anger mgmt.

AND I for one make it a point to react in the negative when called you people

Remember your constitutional right to remain silent when your stupid level is high

You'd really like my suggestion that if an employer requires you to be unprotected he then becomes liable for any and all damages to you.

Criminal, Civil, everything (called Dawgs Law round here)

LOL...I manage to get angry pretty well on my own. But when I do need help, I will seek it on the advice of someone who DOES NOT make a point "to react in the negative when called you people". :upeyes:


Tell you what, I will make a deal with you.

You have no clue of my background in firearms, you have no idea of my proficiency level, you have no concept of how I would react to a perceived threat, or even if I would start shooting for little or no reason.

Now, will you sign a document that makes you financially liable for my actions in public with a gun? No, you would be a damn fool to do so, when you have no reason to do so.

Why then will you stupidly demand Pizza Hut to do so? There are thousands of people to deliver pizza for them who don't even own a gun. Why should they add the very real risk of tremendous expense they would be exposed to by allowing anyone to carry a weapon.

It may come as a shock to you, but not everyone is the obviously well tuned, superbly trained killing machine that many who post here are. Some people who have guns would be a public menace if called on to use them. Do we now add a "driver weapons training" course to the cost of Pizza Hut's business? Will the employees have to periodically qualify in order to deliver pizza? How about pre-employment "stress testing" to assure a driver can handle dealing with irate customers without reacting badly?

Look, if you want to deliver pizzas for a living, don't take the job and start breaking the rules you agreed to. If you don't want to follow the rules, THEN DON'T TAKE THE JOB. This is so simple and so basic that I cannot imagine the FNDA that doesn't understand it.

Here is the bottom line. You have NO right, constitutional or otherwise to do something that I, as employer, ask you to do as long as the act is legal. As employer, I don't really give a rat's ass about much except MAKING MONEY AND HIRING MORE PEOPLE. Before you start you knee jerk whine about "rights to self defense", you better realize that once the bar is set for the government to step in "trump" private company rights, private CITIZEN rights are to follow.

Don't be a little idiot. If you feel that you cannot do a job safely without breaking the rules of the job. Don't take the job. There are thousands of other people who will. Taking the job, breaking the rules and then crying because you get fired doesn't make you a 2nd amendment advocate. It does however make you a little *****.

[Jeff82]

LOL...I manage to get angry pretty well on my own. But when I do need help, I will seek it on the advice of someone who DOES NOT make a point "to react in the negative when called you people". :upeyes:


Tell you what, I will make a deal with you.

You have no clue of my background in firearms, you have no idea of my proficiency level, you have no concept of how I would react to a perceived threat, or even if I would start shooting for little or no reason.

Now, will you sign a document that makes you financially liable for my actions in public with a gun? No, you would be a damn fool to do so, when you have no reason to do so.

Why then will you stupidly demand Pizza Hut to do so? There are thousands of people to deliver pizza for them who don't even own a gun. Why should they add the very real risk of tremendous expense they would be exposed to by allowing anyone to carry a weapon.

It may come as a shock to you, but not everyone is the obviously well tuned, superbly trained killing machine that many who post here are. Some people who have guns would be a public menace if called on to use them. Do we now add a "driver weapons training" course to the cost of Pizza Hut's business? Will the employees have to periodically qualify in order to deliver pizza? How about pre-employment "stress testing" to assure a driver can handle dealing with irate customers without reacting badly?

Look, if you want to deliver pizzas for a living, don't take the job and start breaking the rules you agreed to. If you don't want to follow the rules, THEN DON'T TAKE THE JOB. This is so simple and so basic that I cannot imagine the FNDA that doesn't understand it.

Here is the bottom line. You have NO right, constitutional or otherwise to do something that I, as employer, ask you to do as long as the act is legal. As employer, I don't really give a rat's ass about much except MAKING MONEY AND HIRING MORE PEOPLE. Before you start you knee jerk whine about "rights to self defense", you better realize that once the bar is set for the government to step in "trump" private company rights, private CITIZEN rights are to follow.

Don't be a little idiot. If you feel that you cannot do a job safely without breaking the rules of the job. Don't take the job. There are thousands of other people who will. Taking the job, breaking the rules and then crying because you get fired doesn't make you a 2nd amendment advocate. It does however make you a little *****.

How 'bout a law that separates a companies legal obligations from actions employees take on their own when acting in self defense? Or is that too simple an answer and work against the attempts to disarm the nation?

1. Identify a principle
2. Support that principle
3. Only enact laws/rules/policies/etc that support the principle
4. Anything else is subversive to the principle
5. People that subvert "national principles" are "enemies of the States" and should be exiled from the States

[rvrctyrngr]

I believe it becomes a hired vehicle once you put the sign on it and clock in.

No it doesn't. It's still a private vehicle. All they pay for is the gas (sort of).

I worked for Domino's all through college when home on breaks. We were a franchise, not a corporate store. Myself, the manager and the owners all carried, even in the store. Don't know about the other employees.

[rvrctyrngr]

NO pizza hut for me. Now there are several mom and pop places here in town that make some killer pizza. I know of one that has a policy, if the store gets robbed, the robber is going to get shot. The manager lets the drivers carry along as they have a permit. How do I know this??? He is a member at the range where I shoot. Last year one of his drivers was shot by a 15 yr old thug.

Which place is that, Mike? I'll certainly patronize them if they're near my area.

[PicklePilot]

Not sure if the the average minimum wage clerk could afford a gun anyway....

[rvrctyrngr]

Minimum wage?

When I worked for Dominos, I made more than minimum on the clock, plus tips, plus mileage, plus overtime. Came out to around $14/hr 20 something years ago. I'd make enough money during the summer to pay for my whole next year of school (tuition/books/room/board/beer, etc...), and not have to work. Bought several guns during that time.

[cjlandry]

Minimum wage?

When I worked for Dominos, I made more than minimum on the clock, plus tips, plus mileage, plus overtime. Came out to around $14/hr 20 something years ago. I'd make enough money during the summer to pay for my whole next year of school (tuition/books/room/board/beer, etc...), and not have to work. Bought several guns during that time.

I worked three to five hours a night, and seldom brought home less than $100 cash, after I filled my tank at the end of the night. This was also around 20 years ago. If you know your area very well, you can rake in some cash running pizzas.

[shotgunred]

My local Papa John's.

papa johns takes checks from anyone with out checking ID.

i know this because someone wrote them several hundred dollars of counterfeit checks using my account numbers.

So i wont buy from them.
you can find a reason to boycot everyone.

[akgunnut]

I probably won't boycott Pizza Hut, but I will never work for them as a delivery driver.

[Lady Glock]

I have a dominos 2 doors down from my job and a Godfather's pizza directly across the road from my house. Very easy for me to get pizza without having to have it delivered. :)

[glockman23]

I no longer buy from Pizza/Pasta Hut. For this very reason. I won't support a pro-criminal organization.

Now I have another reason to never eat there. Their pizza sucks!! I'm a Papa Johns man, myself.

[Beware Owner]

Get a better job, get a different job, play by the company rules...or be prepared to handle the consequences (like getting fired).

You missed one. Or, you can write to your people in Glock Talk so they can join in the fight against The People. WE will not sit by quietly. Post away.

[Beware Owner]

No it doesn't. It's still a private vehicle. All they pay for is the gas (sort of).

I worked for Domino's all through college when home on breaks. We were a franchise, not a corporate store. Myself, the manager and the owners all carried, even in the store. Don't know about the other employees.

Then, what rules/policies can be enforced on a private vehicle? That sounds like there may be a loophole, either that or they simply haven't had it contested in court. That would be interesting.

[rvrctyrngr]

Then, what rules/policies can be enforced on a private vehicle? That sounds like there may be a loophole, either that or they simply haven't had it contested in court. That would be interesting.

Yes it would be interesting. About all they could say is that you can't have 'X' in your car on company property (in FL two weeks from now, they can't even do that). But that's an entirely different argument :supergrin:

There were times when my car was broke and I had to drive a 'company' truck, so all bets would be off. But like I said previously, my store didn't play that game, so it wasn't an issue. Just to add fuel to the fire, one of the owners (it was two brothers that owned all the Domino's in my town) was an attorney!

[Beware Owner]

I would still carry.

All day!

[kensteele]

LOL...I manage to get angry pretty well on my own. But when I do need help, I will seek it on the advice of someone who DOES NOT make a point "to react in the negative when called you people". :upeyes:


Tell you what, I will make a deal with you.

You have no clue of my background in firearms, you have no idea of my proficiency level, you have no concept of how I would react to a perceived threat, or even if I would start shooting for little or no reason.

Now, will you sign a document that makes you financially liable for my actions in public with a gun? No, you would be a damn fool to do so, when you have no reason to do so.

Why then will you stupidly demand Pizza Hut to do so? There are thousands of people to deliver pizza for them who don't even own a gun. Why should they add the very real risk of tremendous expense they would be exposed to by allowing anyone to carry a weapon.

It may come as a shock to you, but not everyone is the obviously well tuned, superbly trained killing machine that many who post here are. Some people who have guns would be a public menace if called on to use them. Do we now add a "driver weapons training" course to the cost of Pizza Hut's business? Will the employees have to periodically qualify in order to deliver pizza? How about pre-employment "stress testing" to assure a driver can handle dealing with irate customers without reacting badly?

Look, if you want to deliver pizzas for a living, don't take the job and start breaking the rules you agreed to. If you don't want to follow the rules, THEN DON'T TAKE THE JOB. This is so simple and so basic that I cannot imagine the FNDA that doesn't understand it.

Here is the bottom line. You have NO right, constitutional or otherwise to do something that I, as employer, ask you to do as long as the act is legal. As employer, I don't really give a rat's ass about much except MAKING MONEY AND HIRING MORE PEOPLE. Before you start you knee jerk whine about "rights to self defense", you better realize that once the bar is set for the government to step in "trump" private company rights, private CITIZEN rights are to follow.

Don't be a little idiot. If you feel that you cannot do a job safely without breaking the rules of the job. Don't take the job. There are thousands of other people who will. Taking the job, breaking the rules and then crying because you get fired doesn't make you a 2nd amendment advocate. It does however make you a little *****.

unbelievable, i love it! :rofl:

way to tell it like it is. :thumbsup:

[habanero69]

I think that Pizza Hut should have paid for some formal firearms training for that guy, since he didn't mortally wound that scumbag who had ambushed him....LOL!

Pizza Hut should not have fired him, even though he broke policy. This guy is alive today because of his actions, and Pizza Hut should be happy about it. Reprimand, yes... fire him... NO way.

I'm now glad that the Pizza Hut around the corner from me is gone. I don't have any Pizza place deliver to me... I go pick it up or patronize mom & pop places because I like them better.

Bozz

What part of "even though he broke policy" don't you get? How can Pizza Hut support employees that blatantly break company policy, especially when it involves firearms and the liability as others has so repeatedly pointed out? I don't disagree with what the delivery guy did; he saved his life, but he also broke the rules, hence lost his job. Plain and simple. I'm sure he has moved on and never looked back.