.44mag, shoot through stuff, like bear

[ithaca_deerslayer]

I've shot deer with my .44mag revolver using basic Remington 240 grain semi-jacketed hollow point SJHP. Seems to work good on thin skinned animals.

But all these bear threads have me scared. What specific factory load would you use to penetrate through thick fur, skull, bear, metal, zombies ?

Have any of you done backyard penetration tests?

This thread will probably reveal the superiority of the .44 mag over all other rounds on the planet Earth.

Thanks :)

[kensteele]

in the state of ny, there are no bears of the kind or variety that you need to worry about. ;)

[ithaca_deerslayer]

in the state of ny, there are no bears of the kind or variety that you need to worry about. ;)

So are you saying the Remmy 240 SJHP is good enough for anything walking in front of my gun sights? The excerpts below raise concern of a .45ACP being able to penetrate a black bear skull. I know the .44mag has more zip, but I was wondering if a round designed for penetration might be a better woods carry idea than my trusty SJHP's.


http://www.nrtoday.com/article/20080611/NEWS/696532934/1063/NEWS&ParentProfile=1055

Squeezing off rounds from his .45-caliber pistol while wrestling with a black bear atop a bluff in the forest outside Glide was freaky enough.

...

Wyckoff fired a round into the bear’s forehead, but the animal kept coming, climbing on top of him. Struggling underneath the animal’s weight, Wyckoff said he fired three more rounds into the bear.

...

By then, the rest of the group had rushed over. Glide resident Justin Norton fired a round from his .44 into the bear’s stomach to no avail.

He approached the bear, placed the gun behind its ear and fired again before it finally rolled off of Wyckoff.

...

With the dying bear still struggling, a final round finished him off.

...

After the attack, Wyckoff sat still, not wanting to move for fear the bear had ruptured the femoral artery in his groin. He figures he would have bled out in minutes.

...

At the hospital, a surgeon sewed him back together, astonished that the bear had missed every major artery, as well as Wyckoff’s tendons.

...

His .45 is covered with teeth marks, but it still works. The bullet Wyckoff fired at point-blank range into the bear’s head lodged in the animal’s skull, leaving the man with a souvenir after it was removed.

...

The bear, which when field-dressed weighed more than 260 pounds, has since been sent to a taxidermist.

[WIG19]

A bear doesn't have to be big to become an issue; but bad encounters are rare & it's usually something you screwed up. Still, one could be enough.

That said, whether 44 Mag or hot 45 Colt, I'd prefer to carry a really hardcast heavy lead slug. If you don't handload, there are a couple of outfits that do up shoulder-crushing, skull-cracking loads using Beartooth and Cast Performance bullets and the like.

Try Buffalo Bore (http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm); I think they can even be ordered through Cabela's. They even make one that's less abusive on the user based on input from people who carry those really lightweight "mountain guns" & stuff. (There's no such thing as a free lunch; you carry a Scandium gun... well, it's gonna feel different.)

Have fun!

:patriot:

[ithaca_deerslayer]

Try Buffalo Bore (http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm);

Cripe, this has got to be a thumper!

" NEW HEAVY 44 MAGNUM +P+ 340 gr. LBT-LFN GC . (1478 fps / M.E. 1649 ft. lbs.) Dan Wesson Revolvers. "


Maybe I'd prefer this one:

"Lower Recoil 44 Magnum 255 gr. Keith-Style GC
(1350 fps me. 1032 ft.lbs)
Per Box of 20
$30.86
Order Now

There have been several requests for a full power 44 mag. Load that recoils substantially less than our other Heavy 44 mag. Loads, but will still penetrate deeply and be deadly on game animals.

When S&W introduced their model 329PD, we noticed that some of those scandium revolvers would experience sticky extraction with our Heavy loads and the recoil in the light weight scandium 329PD guns was horrendous, to say the least. This recoil would some times cause bullets to “jump crimp” thus tying up the revolver.

In order to alleviate the recoil, crimp jump and sticky extraction, we have developed this load. It is still full power, but uses a lighter weight, super hard cast, gas checked bullet and will still penetrate very deeply in big game despite its lighter weight. This load is ideal for those of you who carry the S&W model 329PD. This load will not lead your barrel.

This load falls well under SAAMI pressure specs and is safe to use IN ANY 44mag. While we love to hear from our customers, please do not phone/email us and ask if this load is safe in your particular 44 mag.—it is—providing your gun is in normal working condition.

Now there exists a serious full power 44 mag. load that will penetrate big bones (including a bears skull) and drive deeply into living organs and tissues, that has minimum recoil.

See the below ballistics fired out of my personal revolvers.

S&W 329PD (4 inch)---1264 fps

Ruger Red Hawk (5.5 inch)---1357 fps

[dougader]

Glide is about 3 hours south of where I live. Clearly, that bear was fighting for its life and was really po'd. Probably gut shot with the 338. And I'd be willing to bet that Llama 45 was stuffed with jhp's.

I have a friend in Alaska who still carries jhp ammo in his 44 mag when he goes salmon fishing. :upeyes:

A good hardcast slug is the way to go for the much needed penetration in a bear encounter.

[jlrjhr]

in the state of ny, there are no bears of the kind or variety that you need to worry about. ;)

You are not familiar with the Adirondacks. I have seen many large bears there while deer hunting. A friends father took a monster 410 lb. bruin behind the cabin a few years ago. What a sight that was, tied to the roof of the Explorer, while driving through NYC on the way to LI. Lets just say we got noticed.

[Gunnut 45/454]

ithaca_deerslayer
Just switch from JHP to a JSP 240gr and you'll get all the penertration you want or need!!

[vafish]

I've shot exactly 1 bear.

It was pretty small maybe 175 lbs.

Hit it 3 times with a .44 mag using 240 gr JHP's I hand loaded. Gun was a 4" S+W 29.

First hit was as it was running away from me, went through the top part of the shoulder from behind, broke the shoulder and exited out the front.

Second hit was cross ways through the chest. Classic heart lung shot. Complete penetration.

Third shot was to the back of the head as he was sitting down looking the opposite direction. Bulled entered top rear of the skull and exited under the chin.

None of the rounds was recovered.

[454ThunderGod]

For .45 Colt/.44 Mag

I tend to keep a simple formula for this...depending on the bear.

I use either a FNSP or a Hardcast LBT....both in 300gr

[MSgt Dotson]

Hard cast bullets, flat meplat....

250-275 gr at 1000+ fps....

These *WILL* penetrate!

[degoodman]

Buffalo Bore makes ammo that should be to your liking. Corbon also has several good loads in their hunting line. You want a heavy, cast bullet for bear defense.

Now on this skull penetration thing... Here's the deal. Yes, a bear skull is very tough, and yes, they can straight up stop a shot from a slow moving handgun round like a .45 ACP. They have also stopped rifle rounds from penetrating too. The reason is not that the bears are born with a hardened steel plate in their heads, but that the skull plate you're trying to penetrate sits at a very shallow angle when the bruin is looking at you. It probably sits back at a 70 degree angle from vertical or more. So it deflects bullets just like still water will if shot at from too shallow of an angle. And the angle you have against a charging bear will be too shallow.

[Ak.Hiker]

A good 240 JSP should be plenty for any black bear. I would save the HP 240's for deer hunting and switch to the same weight SP when hunting for black bear. I have found the Winchester 240 grain white box to be a pretty tough soft point bullet. If you want something a little heavier the Speer 270 grain Gold Dot SP is a great loading. In penetration testing I have seen the Gold Dot out penetrate some expanding 300 grain bullets. Of course hard cast loadings will offer even more penetration but do you really need it for black bear?

[ithaca_deerslayer]

Thanks all.

I see Federal also makes a 300gr cast core. And I think I'll do a backyard test comparing the win white box 240 sp to the rem 240 jhp, as well as to any box of hard cast I find.