Do You Carry 9mm 115gr+P+? Why?

[glock20c10mm]

If you carry 9mm 115gr +P+ for self defense, why do you choose it over the various 124gr/147gr loads?

I just want a general consensus of reasoning. It seems to be the least popular bullet weight, yet in the past seems to have had a good BG stopping record. But there are enough people who still feel they prefer it, so I'm just looking for the general reasons "why".

http://www.prestoimages.net/graphics03/13627_pd249884full.jpg

[isp2605]

1) Because I've seen several real life results from actual shootings.
2) Because I have quite a bit stockpiled from when we were issued the round.
3) Because it works very well, plain and simple.

[legion3]

No, but I would carry it and feel OK. Heck on duty we were forced to carry winchester silvertip standard pressure 115 grains. I love the Ranger 127 +P+ so if neccessary I would pack the 115 +P+. Just prefer the heavier bullet's.

Years ago I carried the old Corbon 115+P as my CCW round.

Heck the cost alone of the Ranger 115 +P+ is attractive as a stock up SD round

[Deputydave]

I used to years ago. But then I started seeing to many BG's shot with it where the round didn't penetrate an outstretched limb and/or penetrate deeply enough in the upper torso to hit a vital spot.

Many of these weren't 'big' people either which gave me additional pause. I would carry it if nothing else were available.

[vafish]

I carry Federal 9BPLE 115 gr +P+ in my 9MM's.

Why.

1. I was given a bunch of it.

2. It has proven itself 100% reliable with several hundred rounds through each my G17 and G19.

3. It is very accurate in my gun. Much more accurate than any other 9MM load I have tried.

4. From what I have read and heard it is a pretty decent performer.

5. It is the same load my local PD uses. They have almost 2,000 sworn officers carrying it and aren't screaming for a change.

[unit1069]

Is it true that there is no SAAMI "+P+" designated round?

[Dandapani]

Is it true that there is no SAAMI "+P+" designated round?

+P+ means "greater than +P" pressure with no particular upper limit. Most manufacturers are "reasonable" when designing these higher pressure rounds.

I don't like the "light" weight. I don't believe in the mythical "energy" element in service rounds. I do believe in momentum. Mass is where its at.

Would you use 155 grain in 40sw?

Would you use 185 grain in 45acp?

[Rugby]

I carried it for years when I went through my light/fast phase; plus for all the other reasons mentioned. I switched to the 127's because the speed is about the same, the bullet is heavier, and the bullet is the better SXT. I still have cases of both weights, but the G19 is still loaded with the 147gr. Winchester Bonded.

Anything is better than those 124 grains.:winkie:

[D-GLOCK17]

I normally preferred 115 grainers too. This weight gives generally gives the 9mm rounds its highest velocity and enery. There are 9mm rounds at ~500 or so foot lbs. The 124 grains are in the middle and 147 gr 9mm rounds with ~250 ft lbs. I always like the idea of having 9mm rounds in there most factory loadings. Also the Corbon 115 gr JHP+P is also supposedly one of the most "deadly" 9mm rounds to I believe. I am starting to lean toward 124 gr. Either standard pressure or +P. Aren't today's 115 grainers pretty much getting 12+ inches of penetration in gelatin?

[RLDS45S]

The following list represents the Maximum Average Pressure (PSI) recommended by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute.

25 Auto 25,000
32 S&W Long 15,000
380 Auto 21,500
9mm Luger 35,000
9mm Luger +P 38,500
38 S&W 14,500
38 Auto 26,500
38 Special 17,000
38 Special +P 18,500
38 Super Auto +P 36,500
357 Sig 40,000
357 35,000
357 Remington Max 40,000
40 S&W 35,000
10mm Auto 37,500
41 Remington Mag 35,000
44 Special 15,500
44 Remington Mag 36,000
45 Auto 21,000
45 Auto + P 23,000
45 Long Colt 14,000
454 Casull 65,000
480 Ruger 48,000

[RyanNREMTP]

I don't. Mostly because right now I carry 135 Hydrashocks which from what I shot testing right penetrated paper targets without problem. Only got this because this is what I was given.

[AZ_Quailhunter]

Yes.....Cor Bon ...and they have been field tested and are known stoppers.

[unit1069]

+P+ means "greater than +P" pressure with no particular upper limit. Most manufacturers are "reasonable" when designing these higher pressure rounds.

I don't like the "light" weight. I don't believe in the mythical "energy" element in service rounds. I do believe in momentum. Mass is where its at.

Would you use 155 grain in 40sw?

Would you use 185 grain in 45acp?

I read that the 9mm was originally designed as a 124-grain round.

What were the bullet weights the two calibers you referenced designed for? I think the 230-grain was probably for .45ACP but I really don't know. I am guessing 180-grain was the original load for .40S&W.

[glock20c10mm]

I normally preferred 115 grainers too. This weight gives generally gives the 9mm rounds its highest velocity and enery. There are 9mm rounds at ~500 or so foot lbs. The 124 grains are in the middle and 147 gr 9mm rounds with ~250 ft lbs. I always like the idea of having 9mm rounds in there most factory loadings. Also the Corbon 115 gr JHP+P is also supposedly one of the most "deadly" 9mm rounds to I believe. I am starting to lean toward 124 gr. Either standard pressure or +P. Aren't today's 115 grainers pretty much getting 12+ inches of penetration in gelatin?
According to Winchester's and Double Tap's own "numbers":
Win 9mm+P+ Ranger, 115gr, 1335fps, KE=455ft/lbs, P=8.50", E=.81"
DT 9mm+P Gold Dot, 115gr, 1415fps, KE=511ft/lbs, P=12.00", E=.70"

Penetration is based on clothed gel. E = expanded bullet diameter in clothed gel. Both velocities and kinetic energy figures are based on a 4" barrel.

[glock20c10mm]

Would you use 155 grain in 40sw?
Yes. Why not? Many people choose 155gr 40S&W loads. So do some federal agencies, not to mention some LE. If I chose to shoot 40S&W as an SD round, I'ld choose the 155gr loads over the 180gr loads.

Would you use 185 grain in 45acp?
No, but I would use 200gr+P. Of course, that's if I chose to shoot the round at all.

[intheburbs]

Accuracy, proven round, widely used by LE - sounds like good reasons to me.

Same reasons I keep my 10mm loaded with DT 135gr Noslers.

[geofri]

I was going to post a new thread,
but this one seems to be along my own question
(i hope you don't mind, glock20c10mm?)


Glock is even more positive and states that its guns are designed for continuous use with NATO ammunition and, therefore, may be used with +P+ because, "This type of ammunition does not exceed maximum NATO specification pressure levels and is totally compatible to be used in Glock pistols."
In an effort to evaluate the differences between standard and +P+ loads, samples of each were fired in Glock 17 and 19 pistols. As expected the slightly shorter barrel of the Glock 19 produced somewhat lower velocities, but the gun, which had previously been 100% reliable with a wide variety of ammunition, began to experience some malfunctions when shooting any of the +P+ loads. Sometimes the slide failed to go completely into battery, and it was felt that the slide rebounded out of battery in a whiplash response to the higher recoil. Thorough cleaning and lubrication did not relieve the problem. But when shooting standard ammunition, the pistol resumed its previous faultless level of reliability. No malfunctions occurred with the Glock 17, regardless of ammunition. M882 ball ammunition was fired in both guns without malfunctions. The results of the shooting tests are shown in Table 2 {at the end of this document).
taken from http://www.glockworld.com/articles/9mmhistory.htm


Is this correct in stating that +p+ ammo isnt reliable in a Glock 19 ?!

[Merkavaboy]

For the reasons that isp2605 listed, especially because out on the streets, IT WORKS.

Currently I use the Federal version (9BPLE). I still have a whole unopened case that I got at a dirt cheap price that was trade-in ammo from a No. Calif. University PD. If I didn't have the Federal stuff I'd be using the Winchester brand without any hesitation.

[Merkavaboy]

Is it true that there is no SAAMI "+P+" designated round?

You are correct. There is no standard for +P+ loadings. Pressures and velocities are what ever Federal, Winchester & Remington (who are the Big-3 manufacturers of 9mm +P+) decide is safe for their product.

[ContractSoldier]

Nope. I carry the Winchester Ranger SXT 127 Gr. +P+, once my 147 Gr. Ranger SXT arrive's, I'll switch over to them.

[SCmasterblaster]

Speer 115gr Gold Dot HP. 1340FPS out of my G17, and I trust my life to this round.

[Merkavaboy]

I read that the 9mm was originally designed as a 124-grain round.

What were the bullet weights the two calibers you referenced designed for? I think the 230-grain was probably for .45ACP but I really don't know. I am guessing 180-grain was the original load for .40S&W.

The first real 9x19mm Parabellum cartridge was made by DWM using the 480C (19.01mm) case and the 123gr. (8g) 278F Flachspitzengeschob jacketed truncated solid point bullet.

During the U.S. Army testing between 1900 & 1906 they designed their own .45 caliber autoloading pistol cartridge designated Caliber .45 M1906. This round was slightly larger than the current .45ACP cartridge of today. The M1906 was loaded with a 200gr. FMJ bullet. A short time later the .45ACP cartridge was designed and designated M1911 and the bullet weight was increased to 230gr.

The 40S&W cartridge developed and brought onto the market in 1990 was designed to use a standard weight 180gr. truncated flat-nosed bullet in order for these rounds to be adaptable for use in pistols that use 9mm sized platforms.

[FatBoy]

I have used Fed 9BPLE for years in all of my 9mm. As to why, good street performance and I got a bunch @ a good price. I am now going through the change in some of my 9mm to Speer 124 +p, but plan to keep 9BPLE in my HKP7's. Why the change...I got a pretty good deal on 3000 rounds of it last winter. If I would have found a deal on 3k of 9BPLE I would have grabbed that.

As to the post about failures w/ a G19 and 115+P+...I have fired a fair amount of 9BPLE in my G19 w/o issue, as well as, my G17, B92 and HK P7M8 & M13 all 100%. I guess that's why we should all test our carry ammo in our own guns.

FB

[glock20c10mm]

I was going to post a new thread,
but this one seems to be along my own question
(i hope you don't mind, glock20c10mm?)

taken from http://www.glockworld.com/articles/9mmhistory.htm


Is this correct in stating that +p+ ammo isnt reliable in a Glock 19 ?!
I don't mind in the least. Anyone/everyone should feel free to ask any question, or make any comment they want in any thread of mine that they may think is only even marginally related to the thread as a whole, or in direct rebuttal to something anyone else posted. Anyone who :crying: about a thread going off on some other tangent here and there is a moron and wants nothing more than something to quibble about because they're also a looser. There's no reason any thread can't go off on any number of tangents AND STILL COVER WHAT THE OP QUESTIONED.

Good Shooting,
Craig:thumbsup:

PS - I'm happy to see others have already answered your question!

[Mwinter]

But no longer. Main issue is cost, since the only 115gr +p+ load I'll use is the Gold Dot.

The 9BPLE et al do not use a bonded bullet, which is near the top of my list for load selection in any CCW/LE caliber.

And yes I would carry lighter weight bullets in other calibers...provided they are bonded bullets and penetrate to the depths desired. The various Gold Dot loadings are pretty similar within caliber, regardless of grain weight or pressure.

The 185gr GDHP (at least according to the ATK data I have and the gel tests I've seen) performs very similar to the 200gr +p and 230gr GDHP. The 185gr load might have an edge in one FBI test event, while the others might get a little more penetration, retained weight, expansion, whatever...same for barrel length and individual weapons--one load might be a little better in your gun than another firearm.

All the current ATK bonded LE pistol loads (Gold Dot and Federal Tactical) meet my requirements in 9/40/45, since they're all tweaked to excel in the FBI tests.

[glock20c10mm]

Dang, I have to say; Many, many good posts, which include reasoning, which I'm very happy to see! Thus far, I'm impressed with the following the 115gr +P+ 9mm round has in general. Just seems like that bullet weight is brought up the least, yet is actually far from unpopular, obviously.

Anyone know of some of the current specific police departments currently using 115gr +P+ 9mm rounds? And, any idea how long they've been using it for, or at least?

[SIGShooter]

I chose the 115 +P+ because, for me, it is exremely accurate and very little recoil. With the research I have done, the Ranger has a pretty good street record.

I also use 124, 124 +P, 127 +P+. However, I prefer the 115 +P+ over them all. When the winter rolls around, I will go with a 124 +P GDHP for SD.

[Rugby]

I chose the 115 +P+ because, for me, it is exremely accurate and very little recoil. With the research I have done, the Ranger has a pretty good street record.

I also use 124, 124 +P, 127 +P+. However, I prefer the 115 +P+ over them all. When the winter rolls around, I will go with a 124 +P GDHP for SD.

I will go with a 124 +P GDHP for SD.

Eeeeeeewwwwwwww! :puking:124 grain.

[Retseh]

I use 9BPLE, it's incredible IMO.

For those preferring 124gr loads, put something weighing 9 grains in your hand sometime and see if you can tell it's even there :)

[unit1069]

You are correct. There is no standard for +P+ loadings. Pressures and velocities are what ever Federal, Winchester & Remington (who are the Big-3 manufacturers of 9mm +P+) decide is safe for their product.

Thanks. That's what I thought I'd read some time ago.

[unit1069]

The first real 9x19mm Parabellum cartridge was made by DWM using the 480C (19.01mm) case and the 123gr. (8g) 278F Flachspitzengeschob jacketed truncated solid point bullet.

During the U.S. Army testing between 1900 & 1906 they designed their own .45 caliber autoloading pistol cartridge designated Caliber .45 M1906. This round was slightly larger than the current .45ACP cartridge of today. The M1906 was loaded with a 200gr. FMJ bullet. A short time later the .45ACP cartridge was designed and designated M1911 and the bullet weight was increased to 230gr.

The 40S&W cartridge developed and brought onto the market in 1990 was designed to use a standard weight 180gr. truncated flat-nosed bullet in order for these rounds to be adaptable for use in pistols that use 9mm sized platforms.

Thanks to you too.

[ULVER]

The 115gr. +P+ loads worked... Period! FBI be damned, they just did. Good thing no one ever told the perps, who constantly went down like...a sack of hammers. Saw it.

For Law Enforcement, I think the new bonded/tactical designs are a proper direction, and there is nothing wrong with 124gr. bullets. Likely the best weight overall.

For the average concealed-carry "Joe", I don't thinK you can beat the CorBon 115gr. JHP. A really honest 1,350fps, and unless you are the Highway Patrol, should do ya good, in most situations.

I still think the Ranger-T 127gr. +P+ rules; if ya can get it. ANYof the various +P Gold Dots (124gr.), loaded by MANY, define the 9mm these days. It seems to work just FINE!

The "Sleeper"---HST & 147gr. Ranger-T... Never dreamed a 147 would work. The "T" does... Sure does...:cool:

[vafish]

The 115gr. +P+ loads worked... Period! FBI be damned, they just did. Good thing no one ever told the perps, who constantly went down like...a sack of hammers. Saw it.

For Law Enforcement, I think the new bonded/tactical designs are a proper direction, and there is nothing wrong with 124gr. bullets. Likely the best weight overall.

For the average concealed-carry "Joe", I don't thinK you can beat the CorBon 115gr. JHP. A really honest 1,350fps, and unless you are the Highway Patrol, should do ya good, in most situations.

I still think the Ranger-T 127gr. +P+ rules; if ya can get it. ANYof the various +P Gold Dots (124gr.), loaded by MANY, define the 9mm these days. It seems to work just FINE!

The "Sleeper"---HST & 147gr. Ranger-T... Never dreamed a 147 would work. The "T" does... Sure does...:cool:

So what you are saying is that there are a lot of good choices for the 9MM that should make anyone happy, no matter what theory of stopping they subscribe to.

[SIGShooter]

Eeeeeeewwwwwwww! :puking:124 grain.


Don't be a hater!!!

Read the sig line Marine!!!

:tongueout::tongueout::wavey:

[von Schulenberg]

Federal 9BPLE used to be my favourite round for the reasons most of the other posters have already listed, but one of the biggest reasons for me was its rounded ogive. In the few thousand rounds I've fired, it has always fed as reliably as ball in my experience. The only time I ever experienced a misfeed with it was due to a worn magazine spring in my Hi-Power.

Nowadays, I've gotten away from the "need for speed" and use Winchester RA9T.

[MOHAA Player]

Never,I'm not a fan of light weight bullets in service calibers.I like a balance of Pen/Exp and if I have to get only one of the two I'll take Pen.Light weight +p+ rounds expand fast and will not Pen as deep as 124gr +p or 147gr 9mm loads.OK this is what I have observed from years of research on the 9mm and I'm only answering the OP's question.
FLAME SUIT ON

[glock20c10mm]

Never,I'm not a fan of light weight bullets in service calibers.I like a balance of Pen/Exp and if I have to get only one of the two I'll take Pen.Light weight +p+ rounds expand fast and will not Pen as deep as 124gr +p or 147gr 9mm loads.OK this is what I have observed from years of research on the 9mm and I'm only answering the OP's question.
FLAME SUIT ON
Maybe all 115gr+P+ 9mm aren't created equal, some:rock:, while some are :crazy:??? :dunno:

[Mwinter]

g20c hit the nail on the head...."+p+ 115gr 9mm" doesn't say nearly as much about the expected/predicted performance as the bullet type.

Example (not a 115gr but oh well): the 124gr +p+ HydraShok can be a pretty rotten expander through clothing....when it plugs is becomes more of a "+p+ JSP/FMJ" and penetrates a lot more than some folks would deem desirable. The design/load is overall not nearly as good as some more modern standard pressure rounds.

Find a round that meets YOUR requirements, functions 100% in YOUR gun, buy a suitable quantity of it and a good quality practice round with similar recoil, POA, etc., and train train train. My requirements may not resemble yours at all.