Ruag 9mm "mild steel jacket"

[Targettarget]

Anybody ever seen any of this before?

It is Ruag 9mm "mild steel jacketed". I bought it locally from a place that sells Ruag ammo religiously. I'm not concerned about it being Ruag, its Swiss made and pretty good stuff, but the "steel jacket" has me thrown for a loop for some reason.

Armour Piercing ammo is illegal as hell in Canada, and apparently this stuff isn't ammo piercing, but with a steel jacket?

Also, how does a mild steel jacket affect barrel life with Polygonal rifling?

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/6415/ruag9mm1yi8.jpg
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/2504/ruag9mm2kk5.jpg

[novaDAK]

At least in the US, armor piercing has to have the majority of the weight be a hard metal like steel. Having a steel jacketed bullet is not AP, especially mild steel. It will spark if it hits a metal object down range and may not be as easy on the gun's barrel as copper but I don't think it will hurt over the long run.

[Joeywhat]

AP ammo is steel core (among other materials). The jacket alone being steel will not make it penetrate armor.

I'm not sure I would feel warm and fuzzy running it through my guns...but I'm no metallurgist.

[Mwinter]

RUAG makes very consistent and high-quality stuff in my experience.

'Mild steel' is kinda like 'hot sauce'....doesn't mean much. If it's a steel-jacketed bullet like the ones Sellier & Bellot used to use in their 9mmP ammo, then it shouldn't hurt a good quality gun. I ran thousands of rounds of it through a G17 with no loss in accuracy/reliability.

Ditto the other poster's advice on it being forbidden at certain indoor ranges due to perceived fire/ricochet hazard and wear on the backstop.

FYI, many rounds deemed 'armor-piercing' down here in the US are legal in Canada. Several US states also have their own individual prohibitions on 'armor-piercing' ammo, to add to the confusion and general silliness.

[kensteele]

yeah i wouldn't worry about it too much either.

since we're on the topic, for the most part, is ap pistol ammo illegal to possess or at least is it illegal to use illegally?

[Berto]

THe 7.5 Swiss GP11 stuff I use is all steel jacket too. Their stuff is excellent quality ammo and I doubt it hurts anything.
Local range forbids it, despite the lead core.:upeyes:

[Merkavaboy]

I've not seen any new production RUAG pistol ammo in my neck of the woods.

In 2006 I talked to one of the RUAG reps at the SHOT Show and he said that they wouldn't be importing any of their ammo for the commercial market (here in the states) because no one would be willing to buy their ammo at the prices they'd have to charge for their quality ammo.

I've shot quite a bit of 9mm that was made with mild steel jackets (Russian Bear, Wolf and Czech Sellier & Bellot) without problems. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot steel jacketed ammo through my GLOCKs. Remember that GLOCK has a world-wide market and their barrels are made to shoot all kinds of ammo from iron/polymer frangible training rounds to bullets that have steel jackets.

RUAG is excellent quality and if you can buy this stuff in Canada at a good price, buy it and shoot it up! :thumbsup:

[novaDAK]

yeah i wouldn't worry about it too much either.

since we're on the topic, for the most part, is ap pistol ammo illegal to possess or at least is it illegal to use illegally?

I'm not sure exactly, but I believe it is legal to possess and shoot, just illegal to sell to 'ordinary civilians.' So the stuff that is already out there in circulation is still legal. IANAL so take what I said with a grain of salt.

[Merkavaboy]

since we're on the topic, for the most part, is ap pistol ammo illegal to possess or at least is it illegal to use illegally?

Depends. Generally, it is legal to possess AP ammo and to sell from one individual to another. Be aware that some states (especially Calif.) does not allow the possession of AP handgun ammo.

I'm fairly sure that it is a Federal crime to possess AP handgun while in the commission of a crime (just like wearing body armor during a crime).

Any company that wants to develop/sell AP handgun ammo must get approval & licensing from the Feds and can sell only to LEA's and the military.

To the best of my knowledge, presently there is no ammo company that is specifically making AP handgun ammo nor importing it. The old AP ammo like KTW's, French THV's, American Ballistics etc. are all in the cartridge collector's realm and often garner decent prices for single cartridges (anywhere from $5-$20 or more ea.).

[Joeywhat]

AP ammo cannot be imported, manufactured or commercially sold. I think covers it...basically if you own some, it's perfectly legal to own and use, and you can sell it to the guy down the street if you want. You just can't buy it from a retailer anymore, and can't make it yourself.

[Targettarget]

Thanks, Gentlemen.

[Mwinter]

Texas law states that it is illegal to possess handgun ammo designed to 'penetrate metal or body armor'.

I have been unable to find a conviction under this law. It's kinda odd, since just about every LE pistol out there is 'designed to penetrate metal' (FBI car door/sheet steel event).

You'd have a difficult with a successful prosecution due to the wording....it'd probably be up to the lawyers to duke it out.

The feds at least are very specific with their prohibitions, even though they really don't address any useful restriction on ammo that actually defeats soft armor. They are kind enough to maintain a list of the 'no-no' ammo on the ATF website.

Merkava, you might wanna tell that RUAG rep that the US is a goldmine for expensive ammo....3 bucks a pop in many instances for Extreme Krock and others. RUAG could make BANK! :D

[Jim Watson]

I just want some of the Ruag that they shot the test target for my P210 with.
Dang hard to find a really accurate FMJ, but they manage it.
The Ruag rep at the SHOT Show would have been glad to fix me up... with a firm order for a million rounds and an import license.

[degoodman]

Remember the definition of armor piercing ammunition is VERY specific, and applies almost exclusively to handgun ammo. The statute reads...

Under Title 18, UNITED STATES CODE, CHAPTER 44 as amended by Public Law 103-322
The Violent Crime and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (enacted September 13, 1994) 18 U.S.C. CHAPTER 44 § 921(a)(17)(B) the term 'armor piercing ammunition' means --

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

(C) The term 'armor piercing ammunition' does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Secretary finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Secretary finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device.

Not all steel jacketed ammo is AP, but it is harder on backstops, and the sparking issue in a range is actually an issue sometimes (lots of that dust on the walls and floors is unburnt powder in addition to other crapola)

[gary newport]

Is the Unobtainum used in Extreme Schlock as good as depleted Uranium? :supergrin:

[crunk8]

how much is ammo up north

[Targettarget]

how much is ammo up north

4 months ago, I use to be able to get a case of 9mm CCI brass for $209. Now that's more like $250, if you can find it.

on average

9mm = $14 /50
.40 = $17/50
.45 = 24 / 50

What really hurts up here is when you start getting into the more "specialized" stuff. .357 Sig is upwards of $35 / 50.

All in all, we have more or less the same prices as you, but we don't have the selection. Importing ammo from the US is a pain in the ass (or so I've been told) and when stores here do order, they order allot and it goes fast. It pays to buy in bulk up here.