New G30 and question on ammo

[grimmjpr]

My Jeep magiclly drove me to the gun shop and i ended up leaving with a G30, checked out a G36 and had to decide....went with the G30.

I know its been talked about before, but i had an interesting conversation with the instructor teaching the concealed carry class.

I run 147 grain HSTs in my 19, and wanted to run the 230 grain HSTs in my 45.......the instructor said that a 45 is too powerful for civilian use and is just a libality because in 200 or 230 grain it will shoot through 15 walls or 3 people and can richoct and kill everyone......ok i'm streching it a little, but he was trying to get me to purchase a 40 instead he felt this is the best round(i'm not knocking 40s at all i just wanted a 45) he uses CorBon 135 grain JHPs. Was saying that the 40 won't over penatrate and the 45 will always, "the 45 is good for the military where they have to shoot through gear and if it goes through 3 guys its better then one". I don't clam to know it all so help me out...

I got a 45 anyway...thats what i wanted.....hehe

So is a 230 or 200 grain bullet too heavy and will it shoot through schools like the 88 Magnum????? :rofl:

Any thoughts or input would be great....thanks.

Oh yeah he also added that the way to go for home defense and in many other places frangible or glaser type ammo is the best......that i know isn't really true....

[Butch]

Opinions are all too often less than accurate, his may be a good example.

FMJ .45 ball ammo is entirely likely to over penetrate a human body, but the same is likely with FMJ 9mm's and FMJ .40's.

Like the FBI realized a few years ago, when most of the shots fired in a gun fight simply miss the intended target, is over penetration really that big of a problem?

Just don't carry FMJ ammo, JHP's are much more effective anyway.



:patriot:

[grimmjpr]

Opinions are all too often less than accurate, his may be a good example.

FMJ .45 ball ammo is entirely likely to over penetrate a human body, but the same is likely with FMJ 9mm's and FMJ .40's.

Like the FBI realized a few years ago, when most of the shots fired in a gun fight simply miss the intended target, is over penetration really that big of a problem?

Just don't carry FMJ ammo, JHP's are much more effective anyway.



:patriot:

He and I were both talking about JHPs :wow:

[beaner]

If your instructor was giving you his opinion, then I can kindly dissagree....if he were stating factually that the .45 is too much for civillian use, then I could rant and rave all day!!!
You have to take into balance the ideas of speed and mass. If a 230gr .45 were pushing 2000fps, then I could see a problem. I would think that you would have more of a problem of over penetration with a smaller, faster bullet- and with FMJ's at that. By the same token, it is wise to take into account all such factors when deciding on what to carry.

My favorite calibre is still .45acp...my G30 is loaded with Doubletap 230gr Gold Dots. They penetrate very well..that should make you happy, not sad!:cool:
You made a good choice. Besides, though I'm fond of the 230gr, you can always experiment with different bullet weights....I've seen .45's go down to 165gr, though they usually start around 185gr-just 5gr heavier than the common "heavy" .40S&W load.

By the way, I did a penetration experiment once using 185, 200, and 230gr Doubletap Gold Dots fired into an old truck. Without going into detail, I was impressed with how much more penetration was gained by the 230, even over the 200.
Weights and speed, man, weights and speed!

Beaner

PS- Stay away from the "Goofy" ammo!!

[Bigfunkytown]

Go with old slow 230 grain Remington JHP if you are worried about overpenetration.

[MrMurphy]

Your instructor was full of it.

the 9mm FMJ penetrates helmets and gear better than the .45 FMJ in tests if I remember correctly...

as a civilian, you'd be using JHP anyways. Any pistol round will go through walls, including his magical .40. If you aim properly, it's not a problem.

[blakhatdan]

My Jeep magiclly drove me to the gun shop and i ended up leaving with a G30, checked out a G36 and had to decide....went with the G30.

I know its been talked about before, but i had an interesting conversation with the instructor teaching the concealed carry class.

I run 147 grain HSTs in my 19, and wanted to run the 230 grain HSTs in my 45.......the instructor said that a 45 is too powerful for civilian use and is just a libality because in 200 or 230 grain it will shoot through 15 walls or 3 people and can richoct and kill everyone......ok i'm streching it a little, but he was trying to get me to purchase a 40 instead he felt this is the best round(i'm not knocking 40s at all i just wanted a 45) he uses CorBon 135 grain JHPs. Was saying that the 40 won't over penatrate and the 45 will always, "the 45 is good for the military where they have to shoot through gear and if it goes through 3 guys its better then one". I don't clam to know it all so help me out...

I got a 45 anyway...thats what i wanted.....hehe

So is a 230 or 200 grain bullet too heavy and will it shoot through schools like the 88 Magnum????? :rofl:

Any thoughts or input would be great....thanks.

Oh yeah he also added that the way to go for home defense and in many other places frangible or glaser type ammo is the best......that i know isn't really true....

Whatever ammo you decide on, make sure you test it extensively before carrying it. Speer 185g GDHPs repeatedly give me LRN in my G30.

[DanK]

I think the .45 tends to be too slow to be a decent penetrator. Just use hollowpoints. And if the ammo capacity isn't a problem, the .45 is the far better cartridge in my opinion. Its less snappy, it leaves a bigger hole, for me at least its easier to slip into the magazine (my fingers don't rub on the mag lips as much).

[C.Smith]

Something else to consinder is that with the 40 you get a very snappy pistol were with the 45 it has more of a push. My wife prefers shooting the 45 over the 40. I think your instructor is not very educated on ballistics or overly opinionated.

Corey

[grimmjpr]

Thanks for the input everyone.....I never claim to know everything and was thinking along the lines of what you are all saying. I didn't see how a 45 in a good JHP would be such an overpenatrator. I just didn't want to make a mistake when i order up some 230 grain HST......

Thanks Again

[DanK]

Your instructor was full of it.

the 9mm FMJ penetrates helmets and gear better than the .45 FMJ in tests if I remember correctly...

as a civilian, you'd be using JHP anyways. Any pistol round will go through walls, including his magical .40. If you aim properly, it's not a problem.

I have never heard of the 9mm penetrating helmets, at least not the PASGT type. The only pistol cartridge that I heard of doing that was the 7.62X25 Tokarov. Box O' Truth did that experiment.

If you want to get those results with a 9MM sized bullet, I'd try the 9X25 Dillon, or the .357Sig. Either way I would bet on a lighter FMJ round departing from an extended barrel. The 95gr Dillon might have the advantage because of it's round nosed configuration and higher velocity.

[Dan_F3]

In case you haven't seen it, there's a website called the Box o' Truth. It's at http://www.boxotruth.com. I think this will answer your questions. You can draw your own conclusions as to the depth and breadth of knowledge of this instructor.

[commander]

230 gr HST std pressure is what I carry in my G30 and my G36.
My second choice is 230 gr std pressure Ranger T.

Both have been extensively tested by several law enforcement agencies.
They do not over penetrate. They do reliably expand (really big).

[griggrt]

Yeah... as far as body armor is concerned, a .45 is one of the easiest projectiles to stop. I know we aren't talking body armor right now, but it would make sense that a .45 would pass through fewer walls and such before coming to a rest than the .40S&W round and a 9mm.

Your salesman/ instructor was full of BS. You now have, in my opinion, probably the best carry weapon on the market. Good Choice

[rat5545]

As a concealed handgun instructor in Texas, I'm somewhat surprised that they would even offer their opinion, and somewhat ashamed when someone like that shares the same title as I do. Makes you wonder about the quality of CHL holders they are turning out with their limited knowledge.

[Tailhunter]

Speer 200gr. Gold dot +P in my G30sf ... perfect match.

[Dean]

I know all about the .45 ACP.
I carried one as an Army MP, 29 years ago, and as a US Coast Guardsman after that.
ANY modern ball or bonded hollow point ammo you put in a .45 ACP that it feeds well will be a good defensive round.

230 Gr. Ball - that's fine ( I have seen this round blow a big chunk out of a man's head, extruding his brains.)

230 Gr bonded HP - that's fine ( I recently read about a man shot in the chest with this round. The round penetrated his chest, destroyed his upper right lung, and then penetrated through his right scapula bone.)

200 Gr. bonded HP - that's fine.
What do I recommend? A 230 Grain bonded HP round, such as Speer's Golddot. I guarantee you that round is an excellent choice for personal defense /CCW, when the .45 is the caliber of choice. It is a devastating round. Put Crimson Trace Lasergrips on your weapon. Carry your weapon securely locked in place with a Bianchi Carrylock belt slide holster. Carry at least one spare magazine at all times. :drillsgt:

[mastrbloata]

Thanks for the input everyone.....I never claim to know everything and was thinking along the lines of what you are all saying. I didn't see how a 45 in a good JHP would be such an overpenatrator. I just didn't want to make a mistake when i order up some 230 grain HST......

Thanks Again
You might want to pick up the +P version (P45HST1) to make up for any velocity deficit using the G-30's 3.78" barrel. It's what I'm using in my G-30. WICKED. I had been looking for the "perfect" carry load for the 30 for years and I was driving myself crazy with the "velocity/will it open/will it penetrate deeply enough?"-stuff. Finally I just gave up and started carrying ball. That is until I stumbled accross some testing someone posted a while back on GT, shooting the HST against SXT and some other type of bullet. I have to admit, I was taken with it. Now it's what I'm carrying and I haven't looked back. I feel really good about using this in my 30.

[C.Smith]

Where are you guys buying Federal HST rounds for the 45?

Corey

[griggrt]

www.ammunitiontogo.com

I think it is about 22 bucks for 50 rounds of 45ACP.

[griggrt]

http://ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/index.php?cName=45-acp-hollow-point-ammo

23.95

[NG VI]

Ignore everything he tells you about ammunition, none of that sounds remotely true to me. You want less penetration from your .45? Load it up with 230 HST, or HST +P, that stuff will expand to an inch or more in soft tissue and will penetrate 13-14" reliably, unlike the Glasers he wants you to buy. And remember that 230 grain in a .45 caliber is not equal to 230 grain in a .40 caliber, the sectional density is about the same as the 180 grain .40 and 147 9mm bullets. Get some good ammo and call it a day. I like HST 230 grain. I just need a smaller gun to carry it with.

[utahglock]

Recently bought a 30SF and loaded it with CB DPX-like it just fine
evan marshall

[93GT]

I wouldn't believe another word that came out of that guy's mouth. Don't take his advice on buying guns, ammo, a new car, picking out napkins for your son's birthday party, what brand of toothpaste you use, etc...

[thebuzzard]

My G30 feeds anything I put in it but my very favorite load is the DPX. It's just a very good performer under all circumstances.

I do wish it was less pricey but, I have a feeling it is gonna get even more expensive soon.

The HST 230 grn is a great round and I would move to that if I could not get DPX. I bought a few hundred rounds of DPX a while back and I'm glad I did.

[MrMurphy]

Key word was penetrates "better". I can't remember but I thought one of the initial tests was shooting at the old M1 steel helmet. I think 9mm FMJ would go through, a .45 would not.

Neither one penetrates all that great. Have seen several cars shot up by 9mm and the rounds went everywhere except the target, but most did go through the doors. In one case, they went through a guy's leg, car seat, car floor and into the ground so deep they almost didn't get them out. And that was an old '80s Caddy, not some lightweight Honda.

[hillclimber]

My 30 shot great with winchester LEO 230 gr..gold dots..HST jammed 1 in 15- 20 shots..