My .357 Sig experiment

[Targettarget]

I found some 80 grain .355 Speer hollow points the other day at my local store that I will be planning to load onto .357 Sig brass. I would like to achieve 1650-1700 FPS.

Is this realistic or not?

Does anybody know (at 40,000 psi) how many FPS I can expect?

[chewybaca67]

That sounds doable....and fun! :supergrin:

Here is some data from the Hodgdon site.
90 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon HS-6 .355" 1.135"
9.8 grains=1484 @ 28,200 PSI
10.8 grains=1634 FPS @ 38,700 PSI

[Washington,D.C.]

Accurate Arms has data for 88 grain bullets at 1616fps and 95 grain bullets at 1572fps. Both of these loads use AA#5 powder. USE EXTREME CAUTION IF USING AA#5 !!!!! They have load data for AA#7 and AA#9 with the same bullets too.


http://www.accuratepowder.com/loaddata_caliber_handgun_standard_357cal.htm

[Targettarget]

I can't wait to see the look on everyone's face when they see 1700 FPS from a pistol.

Thanks.

[fredj338]

I easily get 1485fps from my short P239 & 88gr Rem. JHP. I have a bbl. for my Delta, I need to see, but I'll bet it can be done w/ AA#7 or Longshot, maybe PowerPistol.

[Washington,D.C.]

A 90 grain bullet at 1715fps with Power Pistol.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipeDetail.aspx?title=Pistols%20and%20Revolvers&gtypeid=1&weight=90&shellid=1021&bulletid=58

[glock20c10mm]

That sounds doable....and fun! :supergrin:

Here is some data from the Hodgdon site.
90 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon HS-6 .355" 1.135"
9.8 grains=1484 @ 28,200 PSI
10.8 grains=1634 FPS @ 38,700 PSI

I don't know what gun barrel length they used for the data you list, but in Hornady's reloading guide they show lower numbers using the same 90gr XTP, with the powders they used out of a SIG P229 with a 3.84" barrel. Also, they used Winchester small pistol primers.

Their max load results are as follows:
7.3gr of Bullseye @ 1500fps
7.7gr of HP38 @ 1450fps
7.3gr of AA#2 @ 1400fps
8.8gr of Unique @ 1400fps
9.2gr of SR4756 @ 1400fps

I certainly don't doubt all other numbers listed by everyone else. Was Hornady themselves being extra conservative? Was it simply a matter of barrel length? Could Hornady have used slower burning powders and came up with the same results? I don't know, just thought I'ld throw it out there and ask.:dunno:

Of possible interesting note, I just delved into this a bit further, looking at the velocities Hornady AND Nosler claim for their 115gr .355cal projectiles from a 357SIG, with Nosler using the same gun listed above that Hornady used for their testing, and the same Winchester small pistol primer.

Looking at the results makes Hornady look even more conservative, OR, Hornady's bullets are just that much more frictional while traveling down the barrel, therefore upping pressures that way, although it doesn't really seem to be the case when looking at the data overall.

For 115gr XTPs, Hornady lists the following powders all acheiving 1350fps which was their max velocity listed:
8.3gr of Unique
8.4gr of SR4756
8.6gr of VIHT N-350
9.1gr of Power Pistol
9.6gr of Win. Action Pistol
9.8gr of HS-6
10.8gr of Blue Dot
10.8gr of HS-7
12.1gr of AA No. 7

For 115gr Sporting Handgun bullets, Nosler lists:
9.1gr of VIHT N-350 @ 1425fps (also listed as the most accurate powder tested)
8.9gr of VIHT 3N37 @ 1438fps
12.1gr of AA No. 7 @ 1442fps
14.3gr of AA No. 9 @ 1454fps

I guess, based on all of the above(including other posts in this thread), it seems quite reasonable to expect an easy 1600+fps from most any 90gr or less weight .355cal projectile loaded in the 357SIG, from a "full-sized" handgun. I just wonder to what psi Hornady was actually testing their stuff? Who knows, does seem a tad weak though.

Hornady even shows 2 max loads with their 124gr XTP reaching 1350(9.3gr Win. Action Pistol, and 10.5gr of Blue Dot), so now it really seems weird they didn't do more with even their 115gr XTP, let alone the 90gr XTP!

Well, at any rate, it certainly appears the 90gr XTP should do an easy 1600+fps! Kind of reminds me of the 7.62 X 25mm Tokarev, where Hornady shows 1700fps from a 4.75" barrel, using a Federal 100primer and 14.2gr of H110, with their 90gr .308cal XTP bullet!

Now if Hornady was on the weak side of that load......:shocked: And just think, the sectional density of that bullet is on par with the sectional density of a 120gr .355cal bullet, if one existed of course, but still!

[Rabbit Creek]

The trick with the SIG cartridge is in the powder volume, a full case prevents bullet set back which in turn blows up guns....KA_BooooM


AA-7 ought to easily surpass your expectations "BUT" ya didn't mention your gun/platform, all guns chambered in the SIG round are NOT created equally in the chamber support department.

[fredj338]

Well, at any rate, it certainly appears the 90gr XTP should do an easy 1600+fps! Kind of reminds me of the 7.62 X 25mm Tokarev, where Hornady shows 1700fps from a 4.75" barrel, using a Federal 100primer and 14.2gr of H110, with their 90gr .308cal XTP bullet!

Now if Hornady was on the weak side of that load......:shocked: And just think, the sectional density of that bullet is on par with the sectional density of a 120gr .355cal bullet, if one existed of course, but still!

They work up loads that work best w/ their bullets, not necessarily produce the max. pressures. It would reason if you can push a 115grJHP @ 1442fps W/ 12.1gr of AA#7, then the same powder charge under a 90-110gr bullet will be going quite abit faster. Another great bullet to load to high end in the 357sig is the 102grGS. Pretty accurate too.

[Rabbit Creek]

They work up loads that work best w/ their bullets, not necessarily produce the max. pressures. It would reason if you can push a 115grJHP @ 1442fps W/ 12.1gr of AA#7, then the same powder charge under a 90-110gr bullet will be going quite abit faster. Another great bullet to load to high end in the 357sig is the 102grGS. Pretty accurate too.


Obviously not a reloader are you? Hmmm?

Why contribute when you haven't a clue?

[glock20c10mm]

Obviously not a reloader are you? Hmmm?

Why contribute when you haven't a clue?
:popcorn::popcorn:Dang!:popcorn::popcorn:

Did good ol' fredj338 really say something crazy enough to deserve that?:shocked:

[AusShane]

I did some experimenting with the 357sig too :supergrin:
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j227/shaneme28/cantalope4.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j227/shaneme28/357pumpkin7.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j227/shaneme28/357pumpkin2.jpg
Thats a 115gn XTP doing 1485fps
wouldnt mind trying some 90gr sierras

[MSgt Dotson]

Bullets lighter than 115 grains in .355/.356 caliber.....?

Pumpkin explosions aside....

....Why?Why?

[AusShane]

Bullets lighter than 115 grains in .355/.356 caliber.....?

Pumpkin explosions aside....

....Why?Why?
Only other thing i can think of vermin control, still some vermin you need full sized projectiles ie - wild dogs,goats, pigs etc

[Rabbit Creek]

I did some experimenting with the 357sig too :supergrin:
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j227/shaneme28/cantalope4.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j227/shaneme28/357pumpkin7.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j227/shaneme28/357pumpkin2.jpg
Thats a 115gn XTP doing 1485fps
wouldnt mind trying some 90gr sierras

Bear in mind tho that a 115@1500fps is an old 9mm load from the first VV manual using 3n37

[fredj338]

Obviously not a reloader are you? Hmmm?

Why contribute when you haven't a clue?

Sorry RC, but WTFRU? I'll bet I have put more handloaded rounds down range in a year than you have in your very short lifetime. Geeze man, use alittle common sense. You will NEVER get into trouble using load data for heavier bullet & substituting w/ a lighter bullet, unless, possibly, you are useing a slow powder like H110. So FWIW, pray tell, what is your reloading experience RAMBO?:dunno:
I have safely gotten a 88grJHP to 1450fps in my BHP. The same bullet in 357sig in my short P239 goes 1500fps. Getting to 1600fps in a 5" bbl. 357sig would be quite easy & 1700fps possible IMHO.

[fredj338]

Bullets lighter than 115 grains in .355/.356 caliber.....?

Pumpkin explosions aside....

....Why?Why?
Sure, a 90-100gr JHP @ 1500fps makes a great vermin round. Explosive w/ shallow penetration & less ricochette potential.:supergrin:

[chewybaca67]

Bullets lighter than 115 grains in .355/.356 caliber.....?

Pumpkin explosions aside....

....Why?Why?

One stop shot stuff aside, I'd sure in the hell would hate to get hit ANYWHERE with one of them! Can you imagine a "simple" hit in the arm would look like?

[Targettarget]

I don't know what gun barrel length they used for the data you list, but in Hornady's reloading guide they show lower numbers using the same 90gr XTP, with the powders they used out of a SIG P229 with a 3.84" barrel. Also, they used Winchester small pistol primers.

Their max load results are as follows:
7.3gr of Bullseye @ 1500fps
7.7gr of HP38 @ 1450fps
7.3gr of AA#2 @ 1400fps
8.8gr of Unique @ 1400fps
9.2gr of SR4756 @ 1400fps

I certainly don't doubt all other numbers listed by everyone else. Was Hornady themselves being extra conservative? Was it simply a matter of barrel length? Could Hornady have used slower burning powders and came up with the same results? I don't know, just thought I'ld throw it out there and ask.:dunno:

Of possible interesting note, I just delved into this a bit further, looking at the velocities Hornady AND Nosler claim for their 115gr .355cal projectiles from a 357SIG, with Nosler using the same gun listed above that Hornady used for their testing, and the same Winchester small pistol primer.

Looking at the results makes Hornady look even more conservative, OR, Hornady's bullets are just that much more frictional while traveling down the barrel, therefore upping pressures that way, although it doesn't really seem to be the case when looking at the data overall.

For 115gr XTPs, Hornady lists the following powders all acheiving 1350fps which was their max velocity listed:
8.3gr of Unique
8.4gr of SR4756
8.6gr of VIHT N-350
9.1gr of Power Pistol
9.6gr of Win. Action Pistol
9.8gr of HS-6
10.8gr of Blue Dot
10.8gr of HS-7
12.1gr of AA No. 7

For 115gr Sporting Handgun bullets, Nosler lists:
9.1gr of VIHT N-350 @ 1425fps (also listed as the most accurate powder tested)
8.9gr of VIHT 3N37 @ 1438fps
12.1gr of AA No. 7 @ 1442fps
14.3gr of AA No. 9 @ 1454fps

I guess, based on all of the above(including other posts in this thread), it seems quite reasonable to expect an easy 1600+fps from most any 90gr or less weight .355cal projectile loaded in the 357SIG, from a "full-sized" handgun. I just wonder to what psi Hornady was actually testing their stuff? Who knows, does seem a tad weak though.

Hornady even shows 2 max loads with their 124gr XTP reaching 1350(9.3gr Win. Action Pistol, and 10.5gr of Blue Dot), so now it really seems weird they didn't do more with even their 115gr XTP, let alone the 90gr XTP!

Well, at any rate, it certainly appears the 90gr XTP should do an easy 1600+fps! Kind of reminds me of the 7.62 X 25mm Tokarev, where Hornady shows 1700fps from a 4.75" barrel, using a Federal 100primer and 14.2gr of H110, with their 90gr .308cal XTP bullet!

Now if Hornady was on the weak side of that load......:shocked: And just think, the sectional density of that bullet is on par with the sectional density of a 120gr .355cal bullet, if one existed of course, but still!

Thanks, much appreciated.

[Targettarget]

Bullets lighter than 115 grains in .355/.356 caliber.....?

Pumpkin explosions aside....

....Why?Why?

The real question is...why not.

1700 FPS from an autoloading handgun.....that's bad ass. :supergrin:

[uz2bUSMC]

Obviously not a reloader are you? Hmmm?

Why contribute when you haven't a clue?


He'd probably teach you a thing or two about reloading. Or three for that matter...

[AusShane]

Bear in mind tho that a 115@1500fps is an old 9mm load from the first VV manual using 3n37

Ok two guys in the caliber corner - both from Alaska - both who hate the 357sig - who keep touting the 9mm over it - im finding this a bit of a coincidence :dunno:

[Alaskapopo]

I found some 80 grain .355 Speer hollow points the other day at my local store that I will be planning to load onto .357 Sig brass. I would like to achieve 1650-1700 FPS.

Is this realistic or not?

Does anybody know (at 40,000 psi) how many FPS I can expect?

Back when I shot the .357 sig I loaded 88 grain golddots, Sierra 90 grain JHP's and Sierra 95 grain FMJ's all to velocities of 1750 to 1800 in my Glock 24 with a 357 sig barrel. Accuracy was not that great though. I used power pistol.
Pat

[Alaskapopo]

Ok two guys in the caliber corner - both from Alaska - both who hate the 357sig - who keep touting the 9mm over it - im finding this a bit of a coincidence :dunno:

What other guy and what are you implying. Spit it out don't dance around.
Pat

[SKYWLKR]

Flat shooting!!!

I played around a bit with 90gn in a 9mm, got close to 1500 fps with suposedly SAMI pressure.

I wonder what an 88gn with +p+ press could do.. maybe 1600

[AusShane]

What other guy and what are you implying. Spit it out don't dance around.
Pat
Well within 1 minute of writing that you made a response to the thread for the 1st time - yeah i meant you. Hey you come up with alot of good info - but im over your 357sig bashing. Its a good round it IS as good as the 357mag with facotry ammo using the 125gn JHP, and all these pics of exspanded .45 projectiles and you saying itll make a bigger hole - yeah right! ive seen .45 rounds go through and through animals and produce holes much similair to original projectile cal but ive also seen animals shot with the 357mag that had exit holes bigger than a human fist. I dont need gello stats and Fackler to tell me what does more damage. Another thing - what is it you hate about hornady and the xtp projectiles? ive seen you quote nothing good about them when infact they are damn good. But hey to your credit you do come up with alot of good stuff but im over everything you say about the 357sig - its a good choice if people want to use it then fair enough.