Why Campuses Are Unsafe [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Dale00
06-20-2008, 23:17
This report is a little dated but still provides some good insights into why campuses aren't better prepared for violence. I wonder how much things have improved, if any.

EXPERT GROUP DISCOVERS 5 REASONS WHY COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES ARE NOT SAFE

The SERAPH Research Team, consisting of education and law enforcement experts have discovered seven reasons, which create unsafe college campuses.

The SERAPH Research Team provides a bi-yearly school safety report for Congress and in 2006 provided an assessment of the “The Virginia Tech Review Panel Report”.

1. Since the Columbine massacre in 1999, police departments across the United States have been training in “active shooter” response. This has been a well-established practice for use in public [K-12] schools.

However, our survey of colleges and universities security directors and police chiefs shows that few have had this training. Two reasons were given for this, the first was the cost, administrators did not want to pay for the training and second administrators barred campus security / police administrators from seeking out the training because they did not want a “militaristic campus atmosphere”.

2. College Administrators have no training in security or police operations and as a result micromanage security operations on their campuses. This is problematic because of the obvious delay it causes in response time. In addition, when a college or university has a police department micromanagement by administrators can violate state law regarding obstruction of justice.

3. A proper security audit is vitally important to campus security. However, our survey of security directors / police chiefs indicates that most college administrators will not allow these assessments to be done. Two reasons for this refusal is the fear of liability exposure and the chance that the audit would require changes in management systems.

4. Threat assessment as a science has existed in the United States since the early 1940s. Predication and prevention of violence is a critical aspect of campus security and one that in SERAPH’s experience is seriously lacking on higher education campuses. All Resident Assistants, security / police and department administrators should be trained to identify violent behavior in students, staff and visitors.

A lack of systematic monitoring of people on campus contributes to crime.

5. An emergency plan is only as good as the data in it and the ability of key personnel to use it effectively.

Training is important for the effective management of an emergency by key personnel. You cannot ask untrained people to do what trained people do.

SERAPH Research Team http://www.seraph.net/about_seraph.html

Oldskoolfan
06-21-2008, 03:39
Very interesting article. As an aside note on a related issue, does Florida allow CCW on college campuses? My girlfriends sister got accepted to Florida State and I am curious about it as we will be visiting her in the fall.

OgenRwot
06-21-2008, 03:44
Nope, the only colleges allowing CCW are the nine public colleges in Utah, Colorado State University and Blue Ridge Community College (Weyers Cave, VA). That's it. Check out this site for more info: http://www.concealedcampus.org

Oldskoolfan
06-21-2008, 03:48
Nope, the only colleges allowing CCW are the nine public colleges in Utah, Colorado State University and Blue Ridge Community College (Weyers Cave, VA). That's it. Check out this site for more info: http://www.concealedcampus.org

Is it legal in Florida? As in Oregon and Indiana it is legal but I assume the college will expel the student. I was curious as to whether the state protects the student from this punishment.

RussP
06-21-2008, 09:03
Very interesting article. As an aside note on a related issue, does Florida allow CCW on college campuses? My girlfriends sister got accepted to Florida State and I am curious about it as we will be visiting her in the fall.Click here then click on FL in the table. (http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USOffLimitsA-M.pdf)

:cool:

rvrctyrngr
06-21-2008, 10:36
Is it legal in Florida? As in Oregon and Indiana it is legal but I assume the college will expel the student. I was curious as to whether the state protects the student from this punishment.

Absolutely not. Schools of any level are a big no-no for carry in FL.

Arrowman
06-21-2008, 12:35
Sadly, most campuses have become "target rich environments" due to the nearly complete ban of CCW.

That being said, while I was a student a PennState, possession of firearms on campus was VERBOTEN for all BUT CCW holders thanks to a fortunate legal victory in State Supreme Court...

I never felt threatened whilst a student there, but after having gone back for many visits since, I'll be damned if I would let my son or daughter go there unarmed these days.

feltoosj
06-22-2008, 00:51
What OgenRwot says is only partially true (glad to see SCCC info passed around tho :D)...those are the only 9 that allow it BOTH through law and policy...there are states that DO NOT FORBID CCW ON CAMPUS BY LAW. Such states are (not an exhaustive list): PA, VA, WV, MI, IN, WA, KY, and wait for it...wait for it...CALIFORNIA!

This means that you can't get arrested for it, or at least not for CCWing on campus (trespassing maybe), but you can bet you'd face disciplinary action for it if you're a student or employee and maybe slapped with a trespass warning if you're not.

Depending on the location, campuses can be much safer than their host cities, but it's still not good enough. Another aspect as to why they're unsafe is cause criminals ignore gun laws (along with laws prohibiting rape, armed robbery, assault, etc.) while law-abiding citizens do not. Thus, criminals have the upper hand.

magiaaron
06-22-2008, 04:43
Is it legal in Florida? As in Oregon and Indiana it is legal but I assume the college will expel the student. I was curious as to whether the state protects the student from this punishment.

Legal in Indiana, and while you *may* get expelled for having a gun on campus, I know one local university cop that says he sees people carry open on campus occasionally and he says they tell em to just put the guns back in the car. My guess is that if someone wanted to carry on campus (in Indiana) and they aren't LEO, then if it's concealed, they'll be fine. If they never draw, they don't need to worry. If there's an active shooter scenario and they protect themselves and end the situation, then they don't need to worry. They're alive and aren't ending up in jail. Expelled? Maybe. Living the rest of your life: Priceless.

-magiaaron
PS I think you would be able to get in somewhere else if you were a hero and "agreed" not to carry again.

Fear Night
06-22-2008, 08:24
Is it legal in Florida? As in Oregon and Indiana it is legal but I assume the college will expel the student. I was curious as to whether the state protects the student from this punishment.
Many states are like that, you would face no legal punishment - just expulsion from the university. Florida is not one of them; carry on campus is banned by the state.

OgenRwot
06-22-2008, 15:06
What OgenRwot says is only partially true (glad to see SCCC info passed around tho :D)...those are the only 9 that allow it BOTH through law and policy...there are states that DO NOT FORBID CCW ON CAMPUS BY LAW. Such states are (not an exhaustive list): PA, VA, WV, MI, IN, WA, KY, and wait for it...wait for it...CALIFORNIA!

This means that you can't get arrested for it, or at least not for CCWing on campus (trespassing maybe), but you can bet you'd face disciplinary action for it if you're a student or employee and maybe slapped with a trespass warning if you're not.

Thanks for the heads up on the laws!

But, not only will you get a possible trespassing ticket but I do believe you are going to get booted from the school. And if you get expelled from a college for bringing a firearm to class I can assure you that you're not going to get accepted to any other college in the country.

That being said I choose to go unarmed. My college degree is my future and I can't risk that. I know I know, if I'm dead that all doesn’t matter but still, I cannot screw up getting my degree. I go to a fairly ghetto community college right now where I honestly don't feel that safe. But, I don't really have a choice in this situation, unfortunately.

Tx-G30
06-22-2008, 15:18
come to think of it, during my 4 yrs in college, i seem to recall seeing campus police only twice... once during orientation and once when i passed by a k9 officer as i was heading to class

fwiw, it really bothered me when students refered to campus police as 'rent a cops'. yeah, that title is really funny... until they're the victim of a campus crime.

Warp
06-22-2008, 18:05
Legal in Indiana, and while you *may* get expelled for having a gun on campus, I know one local university cop that says he sees people carry open on campus occasionally and he says they tell em to just put the guns back in the car. My guess is that if someone wanted to carry on campus (in Indiana) and they aren't LEO, then if it's concealed, they'll be fine. If they never draw, they don't need to worry. If there's an active shooter scenario and they protect themselves and end the situation, then they don't need to worry. They're alive and aren't ending up in jail. Expelled? Maybe. Living the rest of your life: Priceless.

-magiaaron
PS I think you would be able to get in somewhere else if you were a hero and "agreed" not to carry again.


That was my experience as a full time (armed) student for 2 years in Indiana.


That being said I choose to go unarmed. My college degree is my future and I can't risk that. I know I know, if I'm dead that all doesn’t matter but still, I cannot screw up getting my degree. I go to a fairly ghetto community college right now where I honestly don't feel that safe. But, I don't really have a choice in this situation, unfortunately.

You always have a choice.

Or, in this case, multiple cholice.

You have made your choice. Hopefully it is the best one for you.

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