1911 ? Deal or No Deal?

[Fire_Medic]

Hi guys, recently joined here at GT, purchased a G30SF that I absolutely LOVE to shoot more and more every trip to the range. I have fallen head over heels for the .45ACP caliber. I'm new to the 1911 pistols and want that to be my next purchase, caught the bug. I'm looking to stay at $1,000 or under for my first one.

One of my friends who is also LE has a SW 1911 standard model Blued/Black Steel with wood grips NIB and will let it go to me for $775.00 but with only 1 magazine. He said he'd throw in a wilson combat mag for me in place of the factory one if I wanted it. I wanted to know if this was a good deal or would there be something else that is a better buy for a little more money.

I'm deciding between a S&W, Springer, and Kimber.

Any opinions are welcome and appreciated. TIA.

:supergrin:

[okie]

I have had experiences with the Kimber Classic stainless, Warrior and Custom Covert which is out of your price range. All 3 are/were awesome handarms. I havent done any research on SW 1911's so I cant say if that's a deal or not:dunno: Good luck and enjoy the world of 1911's:thumbsup:

[Fire_Medic]

I have had experiences with the Kimber Classic stainless, Warrior and Custom Covert which is out of your price range. All 3 are/were awesome handarms. I havent done any research on SW 1911's so I cant say if that's a deal or not:dunno: Good luck and enjoy the world of 1911's:thumbsup:

I can get into a Warrior for a little over $800 + taxes with my LE discount at the local shop I visit. Would probably put me just under $1K out the door. Just wondering if it would be worth the extra cash over the SW. Thanks for your input. :thumbsup:

[okie]

I can get into a Warrior for a little over $800 + taxes with my LE discount at the local shop I visit. Would probably put me just under $1K out the door. Just wondering if it would be worth the extra cash over the SW. Thanks for your input. :thumbsup:

Thats an awesome deal on the Warrior my friend, I paid 1,083 out the door for my Warrior:alex:

[Fire_Medic]

Thats an awesome deal on the Warrior my friend, I paid 1,083 out the door for my Warrior:alex:

Then I will have to consider it. Will be going to the shop for some prices in a little while.

Does the kimber have an internal or external extractor? Supposedly the SW's don't jam at all because the extractor is external? I have personally spoken to 3 people who sold their Kimbers because of jams, however I do not know the quality of ammo they were using that could have been the issue.

[kirgi08]

I prefer Kimbers ta SWs anyday of the week.'08

[kirgi08]

Then I will have to consider it. Will be going to the shop for some prices in a little while.

Does the kimber have an internal or external extractor? Supposedly the SW's don't jam at all because the extractor is external? I have personally spoken to 3 people who sold their Kimbers because of jams, however I do not know the quality of ammo they were using that could have been the issue.


I prefer the original design.I've run all types of ammo thru my Pro-Carry.Wolf/WWB/UMC/CCI Brass/Alum.'08.

[GlockRik]

I don't think that is a good buy on a used S&W. You can check Bud's online for price comparison.
Bud's (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_39_71/products_id/15086)

Rik

[Fire_Medic]

Ok so I went to my local shop and here's where I'm at, with the LE discounts I get.

Kimber Custom II TLE w/NS Black $892.00 out the door.

SW1911 $761.00 out the door.

So I will not be buying the used one, needless to say. I'm leaning towards the kimber because I've always wanted one, and I would have never thought I could get one for this price. For the $130.00 difference I think the Kimber is a no-brainer. Thanks for the info to those of you who have posted.

Any thoughts welcomed. :thumbsup:

[Cross-X]

Not so good of a price in my neighborhood. Your market may vary.

[Fire_Medic]

Not so good of a price in my neighborhood. Your market may vary.


Not so good of a price on which pistol?

[Jim Watson]

I'd go back to the guy with the second hand S&W and lowball him on the price, contingent on reliable testfire.

[xd357]

three of your friends say kimber's jam and you still want one?
i'd look a little harder into a springfield. i suggest doing a little searching on kimber's customer service here on glock talk.

good luck on your search

[97guns]

i prefer internal extractors as well, my kimber has never bobbled with maybee 1000 rounds through it. take a look at dan wessons 1911's alot of gun for the money.

[Fire_Medic]

three of your friends say kimber's jam and you still want one?
i'd look a little harder into a springfield. i suggest doing a little searching on kimber's customer service here on glock talk.

good luck on your search

Yes but as I said there was no proof of ammo used and the such. The same three people change guns like a normal person does their underwear, lol. So I wanted some feedback from fellow GT members.

Found out today the issue is with the stock kimber magazines. Throw in some Chip McCormick mags or Wilson combat mags and you're good to go.:supergrin:

Will look into the Kimber CS thanks.

[okie]

Then I will have to consider it. Will be going to the shop for some prices in a little while.

Does the kimber have an internal or external extractor? Supposedly the SW's don't jam at all because the extractor is external? I have personally spoken to 3 people who sold their Kimbers because of jams, however I do not know the quality of ammo they were using that could have been the issue.

The Warrior doesn't have the external extractor:phew:

[L-2]

http://forums.1911forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=27
Here's a Kimber-specific forum, the main set of forums dealing specifically with 1911 handguns.

Personally, unless you've got money, time, and patience, I can't recommend Kimber to anybody, as both of my Kimbers, bought this year, did not work out of the box. My SIS Custom is currently back at the factory as it failed during its first outing.

My TLE II did better. It just needed a different slide stop (which Kimber sent me, but I went with another brand of slide-stop anyway) and 1,000 rounds until I felt comfortable with it. OTOH, if I knew what I know no, I wouldn't bother with a Series II Swartz-safety gun, but that's just me. As they say, YMMV.

I won't need to worry about the Series II safety on the SIS, as it doesn't have one. I waited a month or two to get the SIS, then after its first time at the range it failed, and now Kimber will likely have it for ~month, I estimate, befire I get it back. Hopefully it'll work once it gets back. (What was wrong with it? It went full-auto during its 3rd magazine. The good part, Kimber customer service wanted it back to ensure everything was fixed properly, instead of me finding somebody to do it at my cost.)

Once all the bugs are worked out, I expect I'll have two nice guns for the money...but I keep wondering if I'd bought one $2400 gun, if I wouldn't be a bit happier.

[Substance-P]

http://forums.1911forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=27
Here's a Kimber-specific forum, the main set of forums dealing specifically with 1911 handguns.

Personally, unless you've got money, time, and patience, I can't recommend Kimber to anybody, as both of my Kimbers, bought this year, did not work out of the box. My SIS Custom is currently back at the factory as it failed during its first outing.

My TLE II did better. It just needed a different slide stop (which Kimber sent me, but I went with another brand of slide-stop anyway) and 1,000 rounds until I felt comfortable with it. OTOH, if I knew what I know no, I wouldn't bother with a Series II Swartz-safety gun, but that's just me. As they say, YMMV.

I won't need to worry about the Series II safety on the SIS, as it doesn't have one. I waited a month or two to get the SIS, then after its first time at the range it failed, and now Kimber will likely have it for ~month, I estimate, befire I get it back. Hopefully it'll work once it gets back. (What was wrong with it? It went full-auto during its 3rd magazine. The good part, Kimber customer service wanted it back to ensure everything was fixed properly, instead of me finding somebody to do it at my cost.)

Once all the bugs are worked out, I expect I'll have two nice guns for the money...but I keep wondering if I'd bought one $2400 gun, if I wouldn't be a bit happier.

This is very similar to my experience this year. I bought two Kimbers and helped my friend pick out two more for himself. My Aegis II was 100% and remains my second favorite 9mm...incredibly easy to shoot well and feels great in the hand. Now the not so good experience: my SIS failed a lot during 500 rounds (about 2-3 rounds per magazine). I had to make multiple stops to the local gun smith and spend a half dozen range trips (plus a couple hundred bucks on ammunition and a month of my time) to get it running reliably....thankfully, now it has been 100% for 250 rounds. I have since taken it with me to a couple of gun shows just to see if there were any deals to be had. Lastly, I went to visit my buddy and we were going to break in his Kimbers (he had a Custom CDP and a Pro TLE II with laser grips). The CDP jammed about once per magazine even after changing magazines to Wilsons, changing the slide stop, replacing the recoil spring, etc. He was so ticked off that we went to trade it in the next day. The TLE was even worse. We couldn't make it through a magazine without at least three malfunctions. We tried similar fixes (slide stop, different magazines, springs, etc.). With each of the guns we tried 4 different types of factory ammo. He was enamored with the Pro's design so he sent it back to Kimber. Cost him nearly $70 to send it back (they will pick it up for free from your house but they do not give you a specific time or day to do so). They told him they would send him two magazines to offset shipping and that would look at on Friday and let him know (they received it on a Tuesday). A month later he got it back with a long list of things they did to it...and no magazines (not that he needed the extra magazines but was disappointed that they forgot to send them).

Anyway, as I said, I LOVE my Aegis II and give credit where it is due...but I won't be buying a Kimber again. There are too many other great guns out there to keep me occupied. When I consider that with another few hundred dollars over what I spent getting the SIS RL up and going I could have bought a Les Bear and received it in custom cardboard box, I get a little disappointed that I didn't go that direction. Many people have had great experiences with Kimbers and they make a very appealing looking gun at a reasonable price point; however, its not worth the risk to me to go down that road again. I will say that if you know a good smith, you could likely get any problems you might have with a Kimber straightened out without too much trouble.

[Fire_Medic]

Substance-P and L-2, I appreciate your input it has given me much to think about. What would you guys say then with what you do know, if you were going to spend $1100 or less on a 1911, what would it be. Or maybe there is something a couple hundred more that would be worth it.

What about a springer loaded operator, or a guy at the range recommended an STI Trojan but I have not had much experience with that.

Any additional input would be greatly appreciated. I just really WANT a 1911, if not I'll just end up spending the same money on a G21SF to go with my 30SF, and a G17 that will end up being my range/target shooting queen.

Thanks in advance. great posts.

:thumbsup:

[kirgi08]

FM.The Spartan is a fine choice/Base line and reliable.Your call,I like/love an Kimber.I aint you,I run what I brung.You havta decide your requirements,Not I or any other.'08.

[Fire_Medic]

FM.The Spartan is a fine choice/Base line and reliable.Your call,I like/love an Kimber.I aint you,I run what I brung.You havta decide your requirements,Not I or any other.'08.

Yeah Kirgi I know, just asking for opinions/experiences since I'm new to 1911's. I Love how the kimbers look, but would be reaaly upset if I spent almost $1K on a gun and it doesn't work right.

Just looking for feedback from people to help me make my decision. I would never ask anyone to make it for me. :supergrin:

[GlockRik]

A couple of thoughts since you were orginally considering a S&W. They have a lifetime warranty and the majority of owners seem satisfied with them.

It does not matter what gun you choose,(Colt, Kimber, Springfield, etc.) if you come on a forum and ask, someone is going to have a horror story.

You may want to check out this site: 1911 (http://forums.1911forum.com/)

Rik

[Fire_Medic]

A couple of thoughts since you were orginally considering a S&W. They have a lifetime warranty and the majority of owners seem satisfied with them.

It does not matter what gun you choose,(Colt, Kimber, Springfield, etc.) if you come on a forum and ask, someone is going to have a horror story.

You may want to check out this site: 1911 (http://forums.1911forum.com/)

Rik

Thanks for the info Rik, will check out the site you recommended.

:thumbsup:

[L-2]

Substance-P and L-2, I appreciate your input it has given me much to think about. What would you guys say then with what you do know, if you were going to spend $1100 or less on a 1911, what would it be. Or maybe there is something a couple hundred more that would be worth it.
I can't fault Glocks, but I too, wanted to go (back to) with a 1911 platform.
Here's what I didn't read prior to buying my Kimbers: http://www.10-8performance.com/id8.html

OTOH, I have a local gunsmith who was willing to ensure my Kimber was going to perform right, regardless of model, even with the Series II safety. I realize not everyone has such a resource or would want to spend more time & money once they've already spent ~$1,000.

I also realize, even if I spent more money on a Wilson, Les Baer, or Ed Brown (some of the others I'm presently considering), these also may have needed to go back for whatever reason. That's why there are manufacturer warranties.

What I wouldn't do again, is get a Series II safety gun, again, even though I had a personally-known gunsmith go over it. I'd rather not have to use him for that, although, I had another option which others may not consider. I'd have no problem taking the Series II mechanism out of the gun. Others may not feel comfortable doing so. YMMV. While mine, and other Kimber owners' Series II safeties are working, I don't see taking a chance in having the possibility of getting a click, instead of a bang, when there are other 1911 brands out there.

I would consider a Springfield next time, but can't comment further as I didn't buy one and don't have any personal experience in such a purchase.

Remember, 1911s may come with only one (low-end) magazine. Be prepared to spend another $100 for three more quality magazines (another topic itself) and 500 rounds of FMJ ammo, which is often the recommended break-in quantity.

I'm happy with my TLE II, now, but I've easily got another $500 into it with ammo, gunsmithing, and magazines. I just wasn't lucky enough to have it work perfectly (to my satisfaction) right out of the box as we Glock owners have been accustomed.

[Substance-P]

I don't have first hand experience with the STI Trojan but it was one of the guns I was looking at trading my SIS in on. I have heard good things about them and I would try to locate one to look over if I were in your shoes.

One of the nice things about 1911s is that by and large the problems that someone may have with one can be remedied with enough attention from a competent smith. The overall design is incredibly reliable and due to its longevity and wide spread adoption by so many companies, most smiths know their way around the few potential trouble spots on the platform. So if there is a Kimber you have your heart set on, I think you would be safe to give a try.

As I said, I really like one of my Kimbers. I think I am going to like my SIS now that it is working, I just have a bad taste in my mouth based on the serious of break in frustrations that I need to get past in order to be able to enjoy that gun. At the same time, I have a list of other 1911s that I want to get (including an STI, a Smith and Wesson Performance Center, and a Les Baer) so I am going to work on acquiring those before I would consider getting another Kimber (unless it was another Aegis II).

Now, if I were going to spend around $1100 on my first 1911, I would buy the same 1911 that I bought for my first 1911 this year: the Dan Wesson Commander Bobtail. I was able to get it for $850 and it has the build quality of a gun at least 50% more expensive than that. I would also consider the STI Trojan...but there are a lot of choices in that range and a lot of it comes down to what you are drawn to and which ones get you excited.

Here are some pictures of the 1911s that I have or that I have bought and keep at my Dad's house (where we have joint custody of them)
<a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/albums/q147/substance-p/?action=view&current=DanWesson-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q147/substance-p/DanWesson-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/albums/q147/substance-p/?action=view&current=EdBrownJeffCooper.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q147/substance-p/EdBrownJeffCooper.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
[URL="<a

[Substance-P]

And a couple more pics<a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/albums/q147/substance-p/?action=view&current=AegisII.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q147/substance-p/AegisII.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s135.photobucket.com/albums/q147/substance-p/?action=view&current=KimberSIS.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q147/substance-p/KimberSIS.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[Substance-P]

A couple of thoughts since you were orginally considering a S&W. They have a lifetime warranty and the majority of owners seem satisfied with them.

It does not matter what gun you choose,(Colt, Kimber, Springfield, etc.) if you come on a forum and ask, someone is going to have a horror story.

You may want to check out this site: 1911 (http://forums.1911forum.com/)

Rik

:thumbsup:

Internet forums are so helpful but you have to take what everyone says and evaluate the impact it should have on your decision. Based on what I have read about a variety of gun manufacturers on this site and others, there are only a handful of companies that I have placed on my Don Not Buy List. There are, however, several more that are on my buy with caution list.

[R.TOKER]

I currently own a SW1911 #108285. It is a great production 1911. I previously owned a Kimber Tactical Custom II that was a true nightmare. I will not bash Kimber, but they do have issues with QC. Don't assume the Kimber is better than the SW1911 line based on the number of magazine ads. S&W makes a fine production 1911. Just one man's opinion!!:supergrin:

[Fire_Medic]

I currently own a SW1911 #108285. It is a great production 1911. I previously owned a Kimber Tactical Custom II that was a true nightmare. I will not bash Kimber, but they do have issues with QC. Don't assume the Kimber is better than the SW1911 line based on the number of magazine ads. S&W makes a fine production 1911. Just one man's opinion!!:supergrin:

What have you heard of the SW1911 model#108282. Their website does not specify but it's pictured with a Wilson Combat magazine as is your model?:dunno:

[R.TOKER]

What have you heard of the SW1911 model#108282. Their website does not specify but it's pictured with a Wilson Combat magazine as is your model?:dunno:

The current production SW1911's come with ACT/Novak magazines. Mine have worked fine. I also purchased Tripp cobra mags, which are the best IMHO. Also the SW1911 external extractor works just fine.

[Fire_Medic]

The current production SW1911's come with ACT/Novak magazines. Mine have worked fine. I also purchased Tripp cobra mags, which are the best IMHO. Also the SW1911 external extractor works just fine.

Thanks for your replies, info has been helpful. Couple of questions.

Do you ever CCW your? And how many mags did it come with, do the LE packages come with 3 mags for this pistol as well?

[beefums]

three of your friends say kimber's jam and you still want one?
i'd look a little harder into a springfield. i suggest doing a little searching on kimber's customer service here on glock talk.

good luck on your search


All 1911s jam now and then. My Springfield 1911 didn't work out of the box. The barrel was distorted, everything stove piped, multiple failure to batteries. After sending it to their custom shop for warranty work, it worked fine.

As far as my Kimber, I've ran 600 rounds through it flawlessly except for a few FTF because of the cheap mags I was using.

Just my experience.

[L-2]

Do you ever CCW your? And how many mags did it come with, do the LE packages come with 3 mags for this pistol as well?

1. I currently ccw my TLE II everyday.
2. Both my Kimbers only came with one mag. each, although the SIS came with Kimber's high-end 8 round Kimpro Tac Mag, while the TLE II came with a 7 round Government-type mag.
3. I'm unaware of any Kimber LE package, unlike Glock.

[L-2]

As far as my Kimber, I've ran 600 rounds through it flawlessly except for a few FTF because of the cheap mags I was using.

There was an old saying "misery loves company", but in this case, I'm glad when I hear other people having no problems with their Kimbers. I hope to get my SIS back within 3 more weeks (it's been gone 2 weeks, already) and want to have the same experience once it returns, too.

[Fire_Medic]

I'm about 90% sure I've come to a final decision. I believe that I should not rush into getting a 1911 no matter how bad I want one right now, and that I will wait for a more proper time when I can afford to spend over $1K on it and get something better than a SW or an entry level Kimber instead of one of the higher end Kimbers.

And with the cost of ammo soaring and practice being so important, I think I will be spending the money I would have spent on the 1911 on A G17 and a G19 duo instead for the time being.

Still want one, but rather wait and do it the right way.

Thanks to everyone for your input as it has all been valuable to me.

:thumbsup:

[bac1023]

Nice pics.

[kirgi08]

Get yourself a/n older Kimber,I have rt at 40g worth of rounds thru my "Original" Kimbers.
The only "New" Kimber I want is a/n Raptor/Commander size.'08.

[Substance-P]

Nice pics.

Thanks...1911s are like talented models, they help even the most amateur photographers produce a pretty picture.

[Substance-P]

I'm about 90% sure I've come to a final decision. I believe that I should not rush into getting a 1911 no matter how bad I want one right now, and that I will wait for a more proper time when I can afford to spend over $1K on it and get something better than a SW or an entry level Kimber instead of one of the higher end Kimbers.

And with the cost of ammo soaring and practice being so important, I think I will be spending the money I would have spent on the 1911 on A G17 and a G19 duo instead for the time being.

Still want one, but rather wait and do it the right way.

Thanks to everyone for your input as it has all been valuable to me.

:thumbsup:

There are benefits to saving up and there are benefits to taking the plunge and getting one's first 1911 (as the first is almost never the last 1911 one buys). I am glad that I got the Dan Wesson first...it is a fantastic weapon at a really good price and I didn't feel too bad about learning about the 1911 platform on a gun that was comfortably in my price range.

Another thing to consider is a 9mm 1911 like the Aegis II, the one with the dark slide and light frame that I posted a picture of. That is a good way to get a 1911 fix while maintaining a weapon that is cheaper to feed.

Whatever you do, don't let the challenge of the initial decision dissuade you from taking home a 1911 at some point, they are a pleasure to shoot and a compliment to any collection:thumbsup:

[Fire_Medic]

There are benefits to saving up and there are benefits to taking the plunge and getting one's first 1911 (as the first is almost never the last 1911 one buys). I am glad that I got the Dan Wesson first...it is a fantastic weapon at a really good price and I didn't feel too bad about learning about the 1911 platform on a gun that was comfortably in my price range.

Another thing to consider is a 9mm 1911 like the Aegis II, the one with the dark slide and light frame that I posted a picture of. That is a good way to get a 1911 fix while maintaining a weapon that is cheaper to feed.

Whatever you do, don't let the challenge of the initial decision dissuade you from taking home a 1911 at some point, they are a pleasure to shoot and a compliment to any collection:thumbsup:

Thanks for the advice again :thumbsup: