FOP has concerns about making all city property off limits, even to off-duty cops. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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HerrGlock
06-21-2008, 18:40
http://www.southbendtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080621/News01/806210315
South Bend gun ordinance postponed for more study
FOP has concerns about making all city property off limits, even to off-duty cops.

JAMIE LOO
Tribune Staff Writer

SOUTH BEND -- A measure that would have prohibited firearms on city property is on hold.

The Common Council originally planned to review a new version of the proposal Monday. The public hearings and vote are now postponed indefinitely. The council discussed the proposal at its last meeting but had concerns over the wording, fines and penalties in the ordinance.

Assistant city attorney Tom Bodnar has said that reviving the proposal stems from concerns that some city employees have been intimidated by angry residents carrying firearms into their offices.

The council passed a similar ordinance in 1994 that was superseded by state gun control laws passed later that year. In 2001, the issue came up again, but it was withdrawn by the city legal department before the council could vote on it.

Karen White, D-at large, council chairwoman of the health and public safety committee, said Wednesday the council needs to gather more input and study the ordinance more closely before taking action.

"We have always sought to properly weigh and balance constitutional rights, while protecting public health and safety," she said in a press statement.

The ordinance would have prohibited firearms on city property, with the exception of on-duty law enforcement officers and security guards under contract to protect the property. City buildings would have to conspicuously display signs warning people of the firearms restrictions.

Anyone found with a firearm on city property would be fined, and the weapon would be confiscated. A violator could also be required to attend two seminars on firearms safety and perform community service.

But the wording of the ordinance also implied that off-duty police officers couldn't carry their weapons onto city property. Sgt. Jim Walsh, an executive board member with the Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 36, sent an e-mail to the council last week, saying the union wouldn't support "an ordinance that would take our weapons and leave the criminal with his."

When off-duty officers carry firearms, the weapon is either concealed or the person is still identifiable as an officer. If off-duty officers are disarmed, what if someone was hurt because the officer couldn't protect them, Walsh asked. He said people with legal permits to carry weapons would be the ones adversely affected by the ordinance.

"I think that we all know that a criminal would not care if they were in violation of an ordinance like this on city property and will continue to violate law and carry their weapon," Walsh wrote. "The law abiding persons are the people that will follow the law."

Although the County-City Building has metal detectors, the city has numerous offices that are not in the building.

Staff writer Jamie Loo:
jloo@sbtinfo.com
(574) 235-6337

(Comments link at the bottom of the page)

Letters to the Editor:
VOP@sbtinfo.com

LoadToadBoss
06-21-2008, 20:08
But the wording of the ordinance also implied that off-duty police officers couldn't carry their weapons onto city property. Sgt. Jim Walsh, an executive board member with the Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 36, sent an e-mail to the council last week, saying the union wouldn't support "an ordinance that would take our weapons and leave the criminal with his."

Excuse me! Isn't that what we gun owners have been saying all along with regard to our weapons?

rvrctyrngr
06-21-2008, 20:41
Doesn't Indiana have state preemption?

smithbm
06-22-2008, 10:32
Doesn't Indiana have state preemption?

Yes they do. I'm not exactly sure what South Bend plans to accomplish other than to test and possibly strengthen the preemption laws. Indiana is extremely pro CCW with very few prohibited areas. I don't foresee this initiative progressing any further than it already has.

Hask12
06-22-2008, 11:44
Ironic that the FOP is concerned about this. In Ohio the FOP has tried time and time again to do their best to revoke the 2nd amendment.

rvrctyrngr
06-22-2008, 12:09
Ironic that the FOP is concerned about this. In Ohio the FOP has tried time and time again to do their best to revoke the 2nd amendment.

They're only concerned with it because it might affect THEM.

RussP
06-22-2008, 14:19
If they keep South Bend from changing the ordinance, send thank you emails and letters thanking them. Make certain they know the thank you is from someone with a carry permit.


:cool:

coloradokevin
06-22-2008, 14:58
Ironic that the FOP is concerned about this. In Ohio the FOP has tried time and time again to do their best to revoke the 2nd amendment.

Ahhh... I remember that from even when I was living in OH. It was an issue back there even ten years ago!

In fact, it is part of the reason that I didn't elect to join the FOP when I became an officer myself. There are other organizations that provide similar protections for those of us in blue, and many don't get quite so politically involved!

Dr. DaveT
06-22-2008, 22:28
Yes they do. I'm not exactly sure what South Bend plans to accomplish other than to test and possibly strengthen the preemption laws. Indiana is extremely pro CCW with very few prohibited areas. I don't foresee this initiative progressing any further than it already has.

I don't think the preemption aplies to city owned property though.
Hopefully thiss won't pass anyway !

Razoreye
06-23-2008, 09:08
I love it, the FOP only care about themselves. I would too, but they're fine with taking it away from the plebes? Elitists... :rofl:

rvrctyrngr
06-23-2008, 09:20
I don't think the preemption aplies to city owned property though.
Hopefully thiss won't pass anyway !

If IN's preemption law is like FL's, it forbids the passing of ANY firearms ordinances contradictory to what the state deems to be legal (or, not illegal).

For example...FL's list of prohibited places does not include city-owned property. Therefore, no municipality can say 'no guns in our city parks', etc...

cjlandry
06-23-2008, 09:34
They're only concerned with it because it might affect THEM.

I love it, the FOP only care about themselves. I would too, but they're fine with taking it away from the plebes? Elitists... :rofl:

To be fair, Walsh did continue with this:

He said people with legal permits to carry weapons would be the ones adversely affected by the ordinance.

"I think that we all know that a criminal would not care if they were in violation of an ordinance like this on city property and will continue to violate law and carry their weapon," Walsh wrote. "The law abiding persons are the people that will follow the law."

What more needs to be said?

rvrctyrngr
06-23-2008, 09:38
I agree CJ, but I submit to you that if the original verbiage of the ordinance had excluded off-duty LEOs, we wouldn't have heard a peep from them.

HerrGlock
06-23-2008, 10:10
I agree CJ, but I submit to you that if the original verbiage of the ordinance had excluded off-duty LEOs, we wouldn't have heard a peep from them.

If you really want to give the guy his due, they could very well have said nothing at all and then told the city that HR218 (LEOSA) trumped anything passed by the city, after it passed. They didn't have to say anything at all.

Razoreye
06-23-2008, 10:31
To be fair, Walsh did continue with this:
He said people with legal permits to carry weapons would be the ones adversely affected by the ordinance.

"I think that we all know that a criminal would not care if they were in violation of an ordinance like this on city property and will continue to violate law and carry their weapon," Walsh wrote. "The law abiding persons are the people that will follow the law."

What more needs to be said?
That's true but the email spurned the statute only because of the exclusion of off duty officers. I'm glad he recognizes it for what it is but shouldn't that be the reason listed in his email to begin with?

Bren
06-23-2008, 11:19
Doesn't the FOP usually favor gun control? Surely they don't need guns if the world is safe enough to advocate disarming everybody else.

Hask12
06-23-2008, 17:54
As has been said above, FOP only mentions how something will have a negative impact on another group, when it works to their benefit.

gary newport
06-23-2008, 18:11
To be fair, Walsh did continue with this:
He said people with legal permits to carry weapons would be the ones adversely affected by the ordinance.

"I think that we all know that a criminal would not care if they were in violation of an ordinance like this on city property and will continue to violate law and carry their weapon," Walsh wrote. "The law abiding persons are the people that will follow the law."



What more needs to be said?

...perhaps that neither off-duty LE nor legal CCW holders should be "adversely affected" by such an ordinace?

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