View Full Version : My 1st Glock (G36) just outgrouped my XD45c! Question on +P also
I just picked one of these up last week and just got around to taking it to the range this weekend. I was initially going to the shop to purchase the Kahr P45 which was nearly $200 more than the G36. At the suggestion of the guy at the shop, he told me even if both the Glock and the Kahr were the same price, he'd still opt for the Glock, based on his experience w/many more customers reporting that the Kahrs were finicky feeders. He ensured me that the Glock would basically eat anything I fed the thing (and it did) and for a CCW...the last thing I need is something less than 100% reliable. I took his advice.
Here's where it gets interesting.
Not only did that G36 eat no less than 8 different kinds of "premium" HP's (SXT, Golden Sabres - both 230 and 185gr, HST, Gold Dot - both 230 & 200 +P...etc.) as well as hundreds of target rounds (WWB, Magtech, Blazer, Remington FMJ)....but (and I'm not exaggerating here) outshot my XD45 Compact by a mile?! The XD45c has a 4" barrel and is quite a bit larger and theoretically SHOULD be more accurate.
Yes, it was a LITTLE harder to hold onto than the XD45C w/both the shorty and normal/longer magazines...but nothing that was an issue at all. At first it was about 20 feet out and put the groups within say a raquetball sized group. I then moved the target to about 50 feet (way more than the distance that this gun was meant for in a defense situation)....and it ALSO outgrouped my XD45!? After that, we moved the targets back in and were putting 2 quick shots into the chest region, followed by 1 quick shot to the head. The Glock never missed the target and was pretty much POA accurate, where the XD would sometimes miss the head-shot for me. WTF!?!
I was a little bit disgusted because the XD45 is my go-to gun for my home because it has the TLR light on the rail. It will still continue to be my go-to house pistol, though...for now.
I surmised that maybe i'm just not used to that 6 o'clock sight picture that the XD45 uses (I just hate this fact about the XD)? Maybe the Glock trigger is just better for ME and my technique? Maybe I just SUCK altogether!! But the results are what they were. My buddy who was there w/me also shot a good margin better than w/the XD.
Also...if some people could give their opinions on this:
I currently have Speer Gold Dot 200 gr +P loaded in the G36 and when shooting them, it really wasn't hard to handle when compared to the regular 230 (non +P) rounds I was shooting. Hardly noticeable to me, anyway.
But is it OK for the gun? I also have some 185 gr (non +P) Golden Sabers that I can also use, which should have more velocity over the 230 gr rounds I have on-hand...but the guy at the store highly recommended the Gold Dot 200 gr. +P in the G36...but I just want to make sure it doesn't damage my new baby. This G36 is now my new favorite in my collection!! I'm loving this thing.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
EAGLESFANPHILA
06-22-2008, 21:53
Way to go G36!:supergrin:
I own a XD Tac .45...love it....however, this weekend I fired a 36 for the first time, and I must admit...that thing was accurate as hell....point of aim was excellent....I may have to get one of those....
andime-out :cool:
Congrats on the new purchase. I think you made the right choice. I previously owned a Kahr P45, and I much prefer the G36.
BTW, +p ammo will not damage your Glock.
I carry Corbon DPX 185gr +p in my G36.
My top three ammo choices in that gun would be:
Corbon DPX 185gr +p, Speer GD 230gr Short-Barrel, Winchester Ranger-T 230gr
My concealed carry instructor (mandatory class to get a permit in my state) bragged how he shot 50,000 rounds per year and what a great shot he was and I out shot him with my new 36 in the final class. Granted I used to shoot competively and win matches long ago but that 36 can shoot.
T.
Congrats on the new purchase. I think you made the right choice. I previously owned a Kahr P45, and I much prefer the G36.
BTW, +p ammo will not damage your Glock.
I carry Corbon DPX 185gr +p in my G36.
My top three ammo choices in that gun would be:
Corbon DPX 185gr +p, Speer GD 230gr Short-Barrel, Winchester Ranger-T 230gr
Exxxcellent. Just the info I was looking for!!
I just didn't want to damage anything, knowing the G36 is on the short side.
Sincere 'thank you' for the info! I'm already looking at my next Glock. The trigger is 200% better than the mushy trigger on my XD. I wish I had looked at the Glocks to begin with prior to me buying the XD, to be honest.
My concealed carry instructor (mandatory class to get a permit in my state) bragged how he shot 50,000 rounds per year and what a great shot he was and I out shot him with my new 36 in the final class. Granted I used to shoot competively and win matches long ago but that 36 can shoot.
T.
HAHAHA.....that's HILARIOUS!! I love that story!
Congrats on the 36! Don't worry about +P, it'll be fine, my personal pick for a .45 carry gun would be 230 HST +P, if it didn't recoil too hard for the size of the gun. Golden Saber is good too, so is that Gold Dot you have, if it outshoots your go-to gun and is smaller, I think you have a winner on your hands eh?
Congrats on the 36! Don't worry about +P, it'll be fine, my personal pick for a .45 carry gun would be 230 HST +P, if it didn't recoil too hard for the size of the gun. Golden Saber is good too, so is that Gold Dot you have, if it outshoots your go-to gun and is smaller, I think you have a winner on your hands eh?
Absolutely. I was ECSTATIC on how accurate and reliable the G36 was for me...but at the same time, I couldn't get past that sinking feeling of "Why in the hell do I have this XD and NOW what do I do with it?"
...do I send it back to Springfield to fix the crappy, mushy trigger pull and extra long reset? Do I just sell the thing and get another Glock? Do I keep it and just get another Glock anyway? If I get another Glock, I know the XD is just going to sit in my safe. Why is this stubby little G36 out-grouping my longer and heavier XD45...at both close and long distances? Is my XD a lemon!? UGH!!
I've read the endless Glock vs. XD threads on various discussion boards...but now that I own both...I can really honestly say that the Glock works better for me. There's just no questioning the results I came back with from the range.
Some Gelatin tests taken from StoppingPower.net:(Note: G36 & G30 have same barrel length)
10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for:
Speer .45 ACP 230 gr GDHP Short Barrel
Testing Platform:
Glock 30
Barrier:
Four Layers of Denim
TEST RESULTS:
Round # 1:
Penetration: 15.00
Recovered Weight: 229.6 gr.
Expansion*: .731 cal.
Velocity: 766.8 fps
* Expansion measured at widest point.
Load:
Cor-Bon 160gr DPX.
"Compact Gun Load"
Barrier:
4 Layers of Denim.
Mediium:
25lb Block of Vyse Ordnance Gelatin.Prepared using FBI protocols.
(Heat the water, weigh and measure, run the drill, cool at room temp for hours, chill... etc. which explains the odd Doghair and moth or two.)
PLatform:
Glock G-30.
(Not really a true compact, but it's what I had)
Conditions:
Spitting rain, cloud of skeeters, temps in the late 80's according to the old thermometer that I gotta replace.
Shot#1:
Vel.- 1093fps.
Penetration.-12.0"
Recovered Dia- .752
Recovered weight- 160gr.
Shot#2:
Vel.-1051fps
Penetration- 12.10"
Recovered Dia.- .712
Recovered weight.- 160gr.
Shot#3:
Vel.- 1083fps
Penetration.- 11.75
Recovered Dia.- .728
Recovered weight.- 160gr
Shot#4:
Vel.- 1069fps
penetration.- 12.25"
Recovered Dia. -.734
Recovered weight. - 160.3gr
Velocity.:
(8 shot string)
Lo- 1051
Hi- 1128
avg.- 1081
E.S.- 77.53
S.D.- 25.88
10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for:
Corbon .45 ACP 185gr. DPX
Testing Platform:
Glock Model 30
Barrier:
4 Layers of Denim
TEST RESULTS:
Round # 1:
Velocity: 1024.0 fps
Penetration: 14.00"
Recovered Weight: 184.2 gr.
Expansion*: .81 cal.
Round # 2:
Velocity: 974.1 fps
Penetration: 14.75"
Recovered Weight: 183.4 gr.
Expansion*: .830 cal.
Round # 3:
Velocity: 960.3 fps
Penetration: 13.50"
Recovered Weight: 183.3 gr.
Expansion*: .880 cal.
Round # 4:
Velocity: 934.7 fps
Penetration: 12.75
Recovered Weight: 181.5 gr.
Expansion*: .812 cal.
Round # 5:
Velocity: 964.3 fps
Penetration: 14.00
Recovered Weight: 183.2 gr.
Expansion*: .808 cal.
Average: 971.60 fps
High: 1024.00 fps
Low: 934.70 fps
Standard Deviation: 33.00 fps
Extreme Spread: 89.95 fps
* Expansion measured at widest point.
Northalius
06-23-2008, 06:55
Some Gelatin tests taken from StoppingPower.net:(Note: G36 & G30 have same barrel length)
10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for:
Speer .45 ACP 230 gr GDHP Short Barrel
Testing Platform:
Glock 30
Barrier:
Four Layers of Denim
TEST RESULTS:
Round # 1:
Penetration: 15.00
Recovered Weight: 229.6 gr.
Expansion*: .731 cal.
Velocity: 766.8 fps
* Expansion measured at widest point.
Load:
Cor-Bon 160gr DPX.
"Compact Gun Load"
Barrier:
4 Layers of Denim.
Mediium:
25lb Block of Vyse Ordnance Gelatin.Prepared using FBI protocols.
(Heat the water, weigh and measure, run the drill, cool at room temp for hours, chill... etc. which explains the odd Doghair and moth or two.)
PLatform:
Glock G-30.
(Not really a true compact, but it's what I had)
Conditions:
Spitting rain, cloud of skeeters, temps in the late 80's according to the old thermometer that I gotta replace.
Shot#1:
Vel.- 1093fps.
Penetration.-12.0"
Recovered Dia- .752
Recovered weight- 160gr.
Shot#2:
Vel.-1051fps
Penetration- 12.10"
Recovered Dia.- .712
Recovered weight.- 160gr.
Shot#3:
Vel.- 1083fps
Penetration.- 11.75
Recovered Dia.- .728
Recovered weight.- 160gr
Shot#4:
Vel.- 1069fps
penetration.- 12.25"
Recovered Dia. -.734
Recovered weight. - 160.3gr
Velocity.:
(8 shot string)
Lo- 1051
Hi- 1128
avg.- 1081
E.S.- 77.53
S.D.- 25.88
10% Ballistic Gelatin Tests for:
Corbon .45 ACP 185gr. DPX
Testing Platform:
Glock Model 30
Barrier:
4 Layers of Denim
TEST RESULTS:
Round # 1:
Velocity: 1024.0 fps
Penetration: 14.00"
Recovered Weight: 184.2 gr.
Expansion*: .81 cal.
Round # 2:
Velocity: 974.1 fps
Penetration: 14.75"
Recovered Weight: 183.4 gr.
Expansion*: .830 cal.
Round # 3:
Velocity: 960.3 fps
Penetration: 13.50"
Recovered Weight: 183.3 gr.
Expansion*: .880 cal.
Round # 4:
Velocity: 934.7 fps
Penetration: 12.75
Recovered Weight: 181.5 gr.
Expansion*: .812 cal.
Round # 5:
Velocity: 964.3 fps
Penetration: 14.00
Recovered Weight: 183.2 gr.
Expansion*: .808 cal.
Average: 971.60 fps
High: 1024.00 fps
Low: 934.70 fps
Standard Deviation: 33.00 fps
Extreme Spread: 89.95 fps
* Expansion measured at widest point.
Wow! Those're some nice results from the Corbon DPX, and out of a Glock 30? Sheesh. If I had a Glock 30, I'd seriously consider that round. :)
jmsfmtex
06-23-2008, 07:06
For the past few years I have been between my G27 and G36. This past week I finally decided on the G36 for CCW. It is very concealable, accurate and just feels good in my hand. I think you made a very wise choice.
Some Gelatin tests taken from StoppingPower.net:(Note: G36 & G30 have same barrel length)
WOW!!!
Awesome information you gave there!!
Thank you for the insight!
I'm going to visit that website right now.
thank you again
TexasPOff
06-23-2008, 08:55
Sounds like you should look at trading your XD for a G30/G30SF. Would be a great home defense pistol, and you can use the G36 for CCW. The G30 has the light rail your looking for.
jimglock36
06-23-2008, 12:11
I shoot +p out of my g 36 all the time.
my 36 loves the +p I actually shoot more acurately with it.
Sounds like you should look at trading your XD for a G30/G30SF. Would be a great home defense pistol, and you can use the G36 for CCW. The G30 has the light rail your looking for.
Man, you're reading my mind. I'm seriously fighting myself NOT to do this. I've got a lot of $$ into the stupid XD. I had the slide Hardchromed by Virgil over at Tripp Research, TruGlo night sights, and about 10 magazines at say, $25 a pop! (OUCH!) and a Lasermax guiderod (more on that down below)
To be honest...If I could trade it straight up, I'm SURE I would...but I know I'm going to bring this thing in and they're going to offer me like $300 for it, if that. It's only got a couple hundred rounds through it.
To top it all off...after the 1st shot this past trip, the Lasermax turned on...(I didn't turn it on myself) and the switch on both sides of the slide stop lever were OFF. It just stayed on the whole time. I can't stand this thing. The Crimson Trace laser grips on my 1911 and Ruger 357 are dialed in (they're adjustable) SO EXACT, it's scary. I don't use them at the range, but just in case they're needed for defense of the house. Lasermax said to send it in and they'll replace it, but what a total POS....but it just adds to the "This XD SUCKS" factor...:steamed:
I want a G30, now!!!!
I shoot +p out of my g 36 all the time.
my 36 loves the +p I actually shoot more acurately with it.
Awesome and thank you for the info. I feel confident I'm not going to hurt anything now. I'm just astounded at how accurate this little G36 is! I moved the target way back at the range, just to see if it was a fluke and it definitely outshot the XD by a country mile from ALL distances.
paul1973
06-23-2008, 15:05
I just picked one of these up last week and just got around to taking it to the range this weekend. I was initially going to the shop to purchase the Kahr P45 which was nearly $200 more than the G36. At the suggestion of the guy at the shop, he told me even if both the Glock and the Kahr were the same price, he'd still opt for the Glock, based on his experience w/many more customers reporting that the Kahrs were finicky feeders. He ensured me that the Glock would basically eat anything I fed the thing (and it did) and for a CCW...the last thing I need is something less than 100% reliable. I took his advice.
Here's where it gets interesting.
Not only did that G36 eat no less than 8 different kinds of "premium" HP's (SXT, Golden Sabres - both 230 and 185gr, HST, Gold Dot - both 230 & 200 +P...etc.) as well as hundreds of target rounds (WWB, Magtech, Blazer, Remington FMJ)....but (and I'm not exaggerating here) outshot my XD45 Compact by a mile?! The XD45c has a 4" barrel and is quite a bit larger and theoretically SHOULD be more accurate.
Yes, it was a LITTLE harder to hold onto than the XD45C w/both the shorty and normal/longer magazines...but nothing that was an issue at all. At first it was about 20 feet out and put the groups within say a raquetball sized group. I then moved the target to about 50 feet (way more than the distance that this gun was meant for in a defense situation)....and it ALSO outgrouped my XD45!? After that, we moved the targets back in and were putting 2 quick shots into the chest region, followed by 1 quick shot to the head. The Glock never missed the target and was pretty much POA accurate, where the XD would sometimes miss the head-shot for me. WTF!?!
I was a little bit disgusted because the XD45 is my go-to gun for my home because it has the TLR light on the rail. It will still continue to be my go-to house pistol, though...for now.
I surmised that maybe i'm just not used to that 6 o'clock sight picture that the XD45 uses (I just hate this fact about the XD)? Maybe the Glock trigger is just better for ME and my technique? Maybe I just SUCK altogether!! But the results are what they were. My buddy who was there w/me also shot a good margin better than w/the XD.
Also...if some people could give their opinions on this:
I currently have Speer Gold Dot 200 gr +P loaded in the G36 and when shooting them, it really wasn't hard to handle when compared to the regular 230 (non +P) rounds I was shooting. Hardly noticeable to me, anyway.
But is it OK for the gun? I also have some 185 gr (non +P) Golden Sabers that I can also use, which should have more velocity over the 230 gr rounds I have on-hand...but the guy at the store highly recommended the Gold Dot 200 gr. +P in the G36...but I just want to make sure it doesn't damage my new baby. This G36 is now my new favorite in my collection!! I'm loving this thing.
Any help would be greatly appreciated! Great gun! The g36 is my most accurate gun.
200g. +P gold dots are what I carried in my g36 when I hade her.. 2 words- TACK DRIVER. But mine wasn't reliable so I regretfully sold it.. But I have been itching for another because I loved that weapon.. It will be my next purchase I'm sure!
RyansFortyFives
06-23-2008, 15:47
My OD G36 is my main carry gun right now. I'm carrying it with Taurus Hex 185grn HP's. I hit a golf ball at 50 yards on my last shot on my last magazine of the day. I will admit that it was a completely lucky shot though.
BamaTrooper
06-23-2008, 16:25
Awesome and thank you for the info. I feel confident I'm not going to hurt anything now. I'm just astounded at how accurate this little G36 is! I moved the target way back at the range, just to see if it was a fluke and it definitely outshot the XD by a country mile from ALL distances.
If it is HD and size is not an issue, why not trade up to the 21sf? Then you have the light rail AND 3 more rounds.
If it is HD and size is not an issue, why not trade up to the 21sf? Then you have the light rail AND 3 more rounds.
UGH...I'm new to the whole Glock thing, to be honest...but I've definitely now got the bug. I'm going to have to look at all the models because I'm just learning about them to tell you the truth.
Ok, so I'm looking at the 30 or the 21? Why are you guys recommending the SF models of the 30 and/or 21, over the "regular" 30 and 21 models?
BamaTrooper
06-23-2008, 16:46
UGH...I'm new to the whole Glock thing, to be honest...but I've definitely now got the bug. I'm going to have to look at all the models because I'm just learning about them to tell you the truth.
Ok, so I'm looking at the 30 or the 21? Why are you guys recommending the SF models of the 30 and/or 21, over the "regular" 30 and 21 models?
The 36 is the single stack smallest 45. The 30/30sf are the 10 shot "compact" 45s. The 21/21sf are the full sized 45s. If you aren't worried about size and weight because itis a "bedside" home defense gun, the
21/21sf gives you 3 more rounds than the 30/30sf using the standard mags for each gun. I think a light will mount under either one.
In case you are wondering, sf means short frame; short front to back, not top to bottom and results in a slightly smaller grip circumference that helps those of us with mid to small hands.
I have ownded the 21 but traded for a 21sf, I own a 36 and I owned a 30 but traded it to get the 30sf I pick up tomorrow.
I own a 21sf, I've had it for about 4 months, I wanted to get the 30sf, but it wasn't available at the time. I've fed my 21sf several different brands of plinking loads, several different brands of carry loads all different weights. NOT A SINGLE PROBLEM. And at 50' off hand I can manage around 2''. I'm happy with that, double taps I can keep within an index card out to 21'.
The only thing it's a duty gun, not so easy to conceal, atleast in this season.
paul1973
06-23-2008, 19:43
My OD G36 is my main carry gun right now. I'm carrying it with Taurus Hex 185grn HP's. I hit a golf ball at 50 yards on my last shot on my last magazine of the day. I will admit that it was a completely lucky shot though. How did the other guys on the golf course feel about this??
Bushwhacker
06-23-2008, 20:22
SF stands for "slim frame" Glock made the SF's narrower in grip width.:upeyes:
http://www.tucsonguns.com/Article_Detail.php?g=content1175897784
http://www.officer.com/web/online/On-the-Street/Glock-21-SF/21$37241
SF stands for "slim frame" Glock made the SF's narrower in grip width.:upeyes:
http://www.tucsonguns.com/Article_Detail.php?g=content1175897784
http://www.officer.com/web/online/On-the-Street/Glock-21-SF/21$37241
You are wrong. So are your sources.
GlockWheeler
06-23-2008, 21:21
:nutcheck:
congrats and good shootin:wavey:
The g36 is a great gun...especially for a ccw. I load mine with hornady 200gr +P's. Congrats on your purchase!
g36user
AustinTx
06-23-2008, 23:06
Well, you have identified the problem "I've got a lot of $$ into the stupid XD". You know you will lose your proverbial "shirt", if you trade it. That's really a tough decision. I have done such things and always regret losing the gun that I traded.
At
Excellent information, guys and I really appreciate it. You've saved me countless hours of reading up on those models on my own. I think I'm leaning towards a 21 since I have a smaller one for carry, as well as a shorter-than-normal 1911, although I'd never carry that, methinks. The Glock 36 really seems like the PERFECT tool for that job, for me at least.
The poster above me, AustinTX, is right though...to just trade in the XD would be = to losing my shirt on the damn thing. I'd be better off just getting the new Glock 21 instead and keeping the XD around to hold my office door open. I really can't stand that whole 6 o'clock sight picture thing. It throws me off entirely.
Much thanks, again for all this awesome info/help on things!
Sincerely,
Bob
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