View Full Version : TX: Thousands sign petition to make Texas an open-carry state
HerrGlock 06-23-2008, 02:14 http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/715977.html
Thousands sign petition to make Texas an open-carry state
By ANNA M. TINSLEY
atinsley@star-telegram.com
If Duane Suddeth had his way, he could strap on a handgun and wear it — anytime, anywhere — without concealing it.
That day has not come in Texas, but the 42-year-old Bedford man is among thousands hoping it is on its way.
"This is the public’s right," Suddeth said. "Whether they choose to exercise that or not is up to them."
Texas, despite its independence and frontier reputation, is one of only six states where handguns cannot — in some form — legally be worn in plain view.
Suddeth is among a group of residents wanting to change that who have joined a growing nationwide "open-carry" movement.
Some say it harks back to constitutional rights and frontier days when settlers carried their weapons where everyone could see them.
"It was considered part of everyday life back then," said John Pierce, co-founder of www.OpenCarry.org, a champion of the effort. "The concealed-carry part was what was looked at with disdain."
In Texas, where residents may carry concealed handguns if they have a permit, more than 3,500 people have signed an online petition asking Gov. Rick Perry and the Legislature to make Texas an open-carry state.
"Cowboys and Indians, and the Alamo — and many just assumed that Texas was an open-carry state," wrote Gary Williams, one of many Texans advocating for gun law change. "Clearly, there are some changes that need to be made."
Gun safety advocates aren’t so sure.
"What are they trying to do? Go back to Texas gunslinger days?" asked Richard Leal, a board member of the Houston-based Texans for Gun Safety. "Things are bad enough as it is, with people 18 and older being authorized to carry guns."
The open-carry effort
Many states such as Texas do have concealed handgun rules and permits in place.
But many also have open-carry rules, unlike Texas, along with New York, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Florida, South Carolina and Washington, D.C., according to OpenCarry.org.
Dozens of states either issue licenses for open carry or allow the practice without any license, according to the Web site.
"The concealed-carry movement that swept the country in past decades has been a great benefit to law-abiding citizens to be able to protect themselves in an uncertain world," Pierce said. "But we are trying to re-educate people that open carry is . . . a basic gun right."
The Texas Citizens Defense League, of which Williams and Suddeth are members, is trying to get the word out.
Part of that is the petition that asks that all people who may legally buy a handgun also be allowed to carry it openly, except in places prohibited by law.
"I can’t count the times I have been in some discussion about open carry in some Northern state . . . and somebody says, 'Hey, this is not . . . Texas,’ " said Mike Stollenwerk, co-founder of OpenCarry.org.
"And I respond, 'Thankfully you are correct, as open carry is banned in Texas.’ "
Texas reaction
Any change to the law would come from the Texas Legislature, which is why the petition is to lawmakers and Perry.
The issue is not on the governor’s plate yet, a spokeswoman said.
"The governor is very supportive of conceal and carry laws," said Kristi Piferrer, a Perry spokeswoman. "Expanding that to open carry probably will take a lot of public deliberation and legislative guidance."
Some law enforcers say they would be leery of an open-carry policy in Texas.
"I really think it would cause a lot of uneasiness in the community, with people seeing so many guns," Tarrant County Constable Sergio DeLeon said. "It could create more problems than it would solve."
Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson, who as a state senator helped make concealed-carry law in 1995, said he doesn’t believe that open carry would create any problems.
While he never considered proposing an open-carry measure, Patterson said he has seen the practice in Arizona.
"I went into the bank, and a guy walked in with a .45 in his back pocket," he said. "I thought, 'Well, that’s unusual.’ "
"You never know"
Suddeth, an IT professional who does some travel for work, said he would like to openly carry a loaded handgun. In the past year, Suddeth said there was an elderly woman attacked, cars broken into, a home broken into and several assaults in his Bedford neighborhood.
"You never know when crime is going to happen," he said. "I think eventually we will see open carry in Texas.
"Eventually, it will happen."
Online: www.petitiononline.com/texasoc/petition.html
Open-carry states Texas is one of six states that either do not allow or highly restrict the open carrying of handguns in public. The others are New York, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Florida and South Carolina, as well as Washington, D.C., according to OpenCarry.org.
More than a dozen states require a license for open carry, from Utah to Mississippi to Massachusetts. Eleven more, from Vermont to Arizona, allow it but don’t require licenses. Still more generally permit it but offer various restrictions. And two states, California and Illinois, allow loaded handguns to be carried in rural areas, according to the Web site.
"OpenCarry.org believes that 'a right unexercised is a right lost,’ and increasingly gun owners are agreeing," according to the Web site. "It’s time gun carry comes out of the closet in America."
Source: www.OpenCarry.org
ANNA M. TINSLEY, 817-390-7610
Letters to the editor
letters@star-telegram.com
rvrctyrngr 06-23-2008, 06:51 Well written article. Nice to see a relatively un-biased story in the news concerning firearms.
One question:
"What are they trying to do? Go back to Texas gunslinger days?" asked Richard Leal, a board member of the Houston-based Texans for Gun Safety. "Things are bad enough as it is, with people 18 and older being authorized to carry guns."
Don't you have to be 21 to get a CPL in Tejas?
HerrGlock 06-23-2008, 07:31 Don't you have to be 21 to get a CPL in Tejas?
Notice he didn't say "concealed"
The trick he missed is there is nothing (assuming OC becomes legal) stopping a 17 year old with a pistol from carrying it.
mac_attack 06-23-2008, 08:34 there are now over 3768 signatures on the petition.
Glockdude1 06-23-2008, 08:39 there are now over 3768 signatures on the petition.
3769 now. :supergrin:
rvrctyrngr 06-23-2008, 09:34 Notice he didn't say "concealed"
The trick he missed is there is nothing (assuming OC becomes legal) stopping a 17 year old with a pistol from carrying it.
That's what I mean, HG. He said "Things are bad enough as it is, with people 18 and older being authorized to carry guns.", indicating that someone 18yo can obtain authorization to carry (CPL).
HerrGlock 06-23-2008, 10:04 That's what I mean, HG. He said "Things are bad enough as it is, with people 18 and older being authorized to carry guns.", indicating that someone 18yo can obtain authorization to carry (CPL).
If I'm reading TX law right, a 17 year old can CCW inside a car today without breaking any law (assuming legal ownership of firearm) so they can already do it.
lastevolution 06-23-2008, 10:05 If I'm reading TX law right, a 17 year old can CCW inside a car today without breaking any law (assuming legal ownership of firearm) so they can already do it.
18year old (yougest age to posess a handgun). Not a felon. Not in a gang. Etc.
They law just places the burden of proof of traveling on the state instead of the driver.
rvrctyrngr 06-23-2008, 10:07 If I'm reading TX law right, a 17 year old can CCW inside a car today without breaking any law (assuming legal ownership of firearm) so they can already do it.
Gotcha, thanks.
HerrGlock 06-23-2008, 10:09 18year old. Not a felon. Not related to gangs. Etc.
They law just places the burden of proof of traveling on the state instead of the driver.
Where are you getting 18 from? (not pick, honest question) I see where minor is defined as 16 or younger but I don't see much of anything about 18.
I'd just be happy if they let all people who may legally buy a handgun also be allowed to carry it. I really don't want people to know I'm carrying a pistol.... You might have nutjobs trying to "steal" the gun out of your holster. But I guess a thumb break holster would help a bit....
txinvestigator 06-23-2008, 11:43 18year old (yougest age to posess a handgun). Not a felon. Not in a gang. Etc.
They law just places the burden of proof of traveling on the state instead of the driver.
negative. Last September Texas removed the presumption for traveling, and traveling is no longer an issue for carrying a handgun in your car. It is no longer UCW if you are not a member of a criminal street gang, the weapon is not in plain view, you are not commiting another crime at the time (traffic not included) and you are eligible under federal law to possess the gun.
Traveling matters not under the changed law.
txinvestigator 06-23-2008, 11:46 Where are you getting 18 from? (not pick, honest question) I see where minor is defined as 16 or younger but I don't see much of anything about 18.
There is no under 18 year old prohibition. The only age restriction comes from this law;
Texas Penal Code
§ 46.13. Making a Firearm Accessible to a Child.
(a) In this section:
(1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of age.
(2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm that is loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the chamber.
(3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm inoperable by a trigger lock or other means.
(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal negligence:
(1) failed to secure the firearm; or
(2) left the firearm in a place to which the person knew or should have known the child would gain access. (c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the child's access to the firearm:
(1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
(2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people or property;
(3) was gained by entering property in violation of this code; or
(4) occurred during a time when the actor was engaged in an agricultural enterprise.
That law makes the violator the adult who left the gun there, not the child.
Yellowfin 06-23-2008, 11:49 "Bad enough as it is" ? If anyone thinks carry rights are a bad thing, they have no place on any board or organization with anything to do with firearms.
HerrGlock 06-23-2008, 11:51 There is no under 18 year old prohibition. The only age restriction comes from this law;
That law makes the violator the adult who left the gun there, not the child.
That's what I thought. Thanks :supergrin:
wife and I just signed up.
Getting close to 4100 now
PAGunner 06-23-2008, 12:14 When I think of Texas, I think of open carry. It is insane to me that TX does not have open carry, hell, I thought Texas had OC, and PA didn't (when I first moved here from NY), but to my suprise, it was just the opposite.
Waterwagonboom 06-23-2008, 13:15 http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/715977.html
Thousands sign petition to make Texas an open-carry state
By ANNA M. TINSLEYatinsley@star-telegram.com
Related Content
STAR-TELEGRAM/LAURIE L. WARD
Duane Suddeth shows his .40-caliber Glock 23 semiautomatic pistol holstered on his hip in his front yard in Bedford. Suddeth is among a group of residents who have joined a growing nationwide "open-carry" movement. STAR-TELEGRAM/LAURIE L. WARD Most-read stories
Thousands sign petition to make Texas an open-carry state
Dallas Cowboys’ spending spree might have Super result
Arlington motorcyclist seriously injured
Motorcyclist jailed in passengers death
Mineola reels from abuse at swinger's club
Most e-mailed stories
Barnett Shale drillers work overtime to recruit college graduates
Thousands sign petition to make Texas an open-carry state
Barnett Shale drillers work overtime to recruit college graduates
Carlin worked comedy in Fort Worth in 1959
Canoeists scout put-in locations along Trinity River
If Duane Suddeth had his way, he could strap on a handgun and wear it — anytime, anywhere — without concealing it.
That day has not come in Texas, but the 42-year-old Bedford man is among thousands hoping it is on its way.
"This is the public’s right," Suddeth said. "Whether they choose to exercise that or not is up to them."
Texas, despite its independence and frontier reputation, is one of only six states where handguns cannot — in some form — legally be worn in plain view.
Suddeth is among a group of residents wanting to change that who have joined a growing nationwide "open-carry" movement.
Some say it harks back to constitutional rights and frontier days when settlers carried their weapons where everyone could see them.
"It was considered part of everyday life back then," said John Pierce, co-founder of www.OpenCarry.org, a champion of the effort. "The concealed-carry part was what was looked at with disdain."
In Texas, where residents may carry concealed handguns if they have a permit, more than 3,500 people have signed an online petition asking Gov. Rick Perry and the Legislature to make Texas an open-carry state.
"Cowboys and Indians, and the Alamo — and many just assumed that Texas was an open-carry state," wrote Gary Williams, one of many Texans advocating for gun law change. "Clearly, there are some changes that need to be made."
Gun safety advocates aren’t so sure.
"What are they trying to do? Go back to Texas gunslinger days?" asked Richard Leal, a board member of the Houston-based Texans for Gun Safety. "Things are bad enough as it is, with people 18 and older being authorized to carry guns."
The open-carry effort
Many states such as Texas do have concealed handgun rules and permits in place.
But many also have open-carry rules, unlike Texas, along with New York, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Florida, South Carolina and Washington, D.C., according to OpenCarry.org.
Dozens of states either issue licenses for open carry or allow the practice without any license, according to the Web site.
"The concealed-carry movement that swept the country in past decades has been a great benefit to law-abiding citizens to be able to protect themselves in an uncertain world," Pierce said. "But we are trying to re-educate people that open carry is . . . a basic gun right."
The Texas Citizens Defense League, of which Williams and Suddeth are members, is trying to get the word out.
Part of that is the petition that asks that all people who may legally buy a handgun also be allowed to carry it openly, except in places prohibited by law.
"I can’t count the times I have been in some discussion about open carry in some Northern state . . . and somebody says, 'Hey, this is not . . . Texas,’ " said Mike Stollenwerk, co-founder of OpenCarry.org.
"And I respond, 'Thankfully you are correct, as open carry is banned in Texas.’ "
Texas reaction
Any change to the law would come from the Texas Legislature, which is why the petition is to lawmakers and Perry.
The issue is not on the governor’s plate yet, a spokeswoman said.
"The governor is very supportive of conceal and carry laws," said Kristi Piferrer, a Perry spokeswoman. "Expanding that to open carry probably will take a lot of public deliberation and legislative guidance."
Some law enforcers say they would be leery of an open-carry policy in Texas.
"I really think it would cause a lot of uneasiness in the community, with people seeing so many guns," Tarrant County Constable Sergio DeLeon said. "It could create more problems than it would solve."
Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson, who as a state senator helped make concealed-carry law in 1995, said he doesn’t believe that open carry would create any problems.
While he never considered proposing an open-carry measure, Patterson said he has seen the practice in Arizona.
"I went into the bank, and a guy walked in with a .45 in his back pocket," he said. "I thought, 'Well, that’s unusual.’ "
"You never know"
Suddeth, an IT professional who does some travel for work, said he would like to openly carry a loaded handgun. In the past year, Suddeth said there was an elderly woman attacked, cars broken into, a home broken into and several assaults in his Bedford neighborhood.
"You never know when crime is going to happen," he said. "I think eventually we will see open carry in Texas.
"Eventually, it will happen."
babietuan323 06-23-2008, 13:31 when i was living in LA, i found out that it was an open carry state, but Tx wasn't =(
Its about time Texas did something to try to get OC. For one thing, its too freaking hot to CC w/o giving away the faintest hint that you are packing, down here.
If Tx ever does get OC, I'm sure it'll be restricted as with any other weapon, with city zones allowing you to get arrested for disturbing the peace if someone gets scared and calls the cops.
However, it beats living in my home state of Maryland.
just figured out how to sign... count is at 4326 now
4364, seems to be going up pretty rapidly.
PAGunner 06-23-2008, 13:50 If Tx ever does get OC, I'm sure it'll be restricted as with any other weapon, with city zones allowing you to get arrested for disturbing the peace if someone gets scared and calls the cops.
That is just lame, it ain't like that in PA (excluding Philly).
mustangdave 06-23-2008, 14:14 #4449
george_brooks59 06-23-2008, 14:14 http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/715977.html
Thousands sign petition to make Texas an open-carry state
By ANNA M. TINSLEYatinsley@star-telegram.com
Related Content
STAR-TELEGRAM/LAURIE L. WARD
Duane Suddeth shows his .40-caliber Glock 23 semiautomatic pistol holstered on his hip in his front yard in Bedford. Suddeth is among a group of residents who have joined a growing nationwide "open-carry" movement. STAR-TELEGRAM/LAURIE L. WARD Most-read stories
Thousands sign petition to make Texas an open-carry state
Dallas Cowboys’ spending spree might have Super result
Arlington motorcyclist seriously injured
Motorcyclist jailed in passengers death
Mineola reels from abuse at swinger's club
Most e-mailed stories
Barnett Shale drillers work overtime to recruit college graduates
Thousands sign petition to make Texas an open-carry state
Barnett Shale drillers work overtime to recruit college graduates
Carlin worked comedy in Fort Worth in 1959
Canoeists scout put-in locations along Trinity River
If Duane Suddeth had his way, he could strap on a handgun and wear it — anytime, anywhere — without concealing it.
That day has not come in Texas, but the 42-year-old Bedford man is among thousands hoping it is on its way.
"This is the public’s right," Suddeth said. "Whether they choose to exercise that or not is up to them."
Texas, despite its independence and frontier reputation, is one of only six states where handguns cannot — in some form — legally be worn in plain view.
Suddeth is among a group of residents wanting to change that who have joined a growing nationwide "open-carry" movement.
Some say it harks back to constitutional rights and frontier days when settlers carried their weapons where everyone could see them.
"It was considered part of everyday life back then," said John Pierce, co-founder of www.OpenCarry.org, a champion of the effort. "The concealed-carry part was what was looked at with disdain."
In Texas, where residents may carry concealed handguns if they have a permit, more than 3,500 people have signed an online petition asking Gov. Rick Perry and the Legislature to make Texas an open-carry state.
"Cowboys and Indians, and the Alamo — and many just assumed that Texas was an open-carry state," wrote Gary Williams, one of many Texans advocating for gun law change. "Clearly, there are some changes that need to be made."
Gun safety advocates aren’t so sure.
"What are they trying to do? Go back to Texas gunslinger days?" asked Richard Leal, a board member of the Houston-based Texans for Gun Safety. "Things are bad enough as it is, with people 18 and older being authorized to carry guns."
The open-carry effort
Many states such as Texas do have concealed handgun rules and permits in place.
But many also have open-carry rules, unlike Texas, along with New York, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Florida, South Carolina and Washington, D.C., according to OpenCarry.org.
Dozens of states either issue licenses for open carry or allow the practice without any license, according to the Web site.
"The concealed-carry movement that swept the country in past decades has been a great benefit to law-abiding citizens to be able to protect themselves in an uncertain world," Pierce said. "But we are trying to re-educate people that open carry is . . . a basic gun right."
The Texas Citizens Defense League, of which Williams and Suddeth are members, is trying to get the word out.
Part of that is the petition that asks that all people who may legally buy a handgun also be allowed to carry it openly, except in places prohibited by law.
"I can’t count the times I have been in some discussion about open carry in some Northern state . . . and somebody says, 'Hey, this is not . . . Texas,’ " said Mike Stollenwerk, co-founder of OpenCarry.org.
"And I respond, 'Thankfully you are correct, as open carry is banned in Texas.’ "
Texas reaction
Any change to the law would come from the Texas Legislature, which is why the petition is to lawmakers and Perry.
The issue is not on the governor’s plate yet, a spokeswoman said.
"The governor is very supportive of conceal and carry laws," said Kristi Piferrer, a Perry spokeswoman. "Expanding that to open carry probably will take a lot of public deliberation and legislative guidance."
Some law enforcers say they would be leery of an open-carry policy in Texas.
"I really think it would cause a lot of uneasiness in the community, with people seeing so many guns," Tarrant County Constable Sergio DeLeon said. "It could create more problems than it would solve."
Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson, who as a state senator helped make concealed-carry law in 1995, said he doesn’t believe that open carry would create any problems.
While he never considered proposing an open-carry measure, Patterson said he has seen the practice in Arizona.
"I went into the bank, and a guy walked in with a .45 in his back pocket," he said. "I thought, 'Well, that’s unusual.’ "
"You never know"
Suddeth, an IT professional who does some travel for work, said he would like to openly carry a loaded handgun. In the past year, Suddeth said there was an elderly woman attacked, cars broken into, a home broken into and several assaults in his Bedford neighborhood.
"You never know when crime is going to happen," he said. "I think eventually we will see open carry in Texas.
"Eventually, it will happen."
Good tor Texas, now all we need is to get tho other states to join the effort.
TexasGlock23 06-23-2008, 14:19 I'm still surprised Texas is not OC. I love my state either way and can not wait to get back home.
sohaltang 06-23-2008, 14:20 Good tor Texas, now all we need is to get tho other states to join the effort.
Did you miss this part? "Texas, despite its independence and frontier reputation, is one of only six states where handguns cannot — in some form — legally be worn in plain view." You make it sound like very few states have this law when the truth is Texas is in the slim minority (almost 9:1)
DKSuddeth 06-23-2008, 14:22 The article has generated more publicity than I ever thought it would.
I've just finished an interview with Fox 4 news for tonight at 5 or 6 pm.
Yes, I'm Duane Suddeth.
OD GASTON 06-23-2008, 14:24 Cool,:wavey: keep up the good work.....
RyanNREMTP 06-23-2008, 14:32 Congrats on the interview, hopefully they won't edit the crap out of it.
mnglocker 06-23-2008, 14:33 4505 thank you. :supergrin:
itsnitro 06-23-2008, 14:40 4519 votes!
FLORIDA needs to be next!!!
Because of this article posted in another thread (with a link to the petition), I signed as well. Otherwise I never would have known about it...
drew
grindchug 06-23-2008, 14:48 everyone assumes we are an OC state... Hell didn't California start allowing rural OC recently? That just aint right.
txinvestigator 06-23-2008, 14:58 Did you miss this part? "Texas, despite its independence and frontier reputation, is one of only six states where handguns cannot — in some form — legally be worn in plain view." You make it sound like very few states have this law when the truth is Texas is in the slim minority (almost 9:1)
That is absolutely false. Texas generally prohibits the carry of handguns on or about your person, except for law abiding citizens carry concealed in a vehicle. See section 46.02 of the Texas Penal Code
There are eight general exceptions where people can carry handguns. Of those, only TWO require that the handgun be concealed. ONE requires that the handgun be in plain view. That does not include Peace Officers and such. See Penal Code section 46.15 (b)
So the FACT is Texas allows open carry in 75% of the situations where a person can legally carry a handgun.
Considering that the petition makes such an obvious and simple mistake on this fact, I suspect the remainder of their "facts".
geminicricket 06-23-2008, 15:07 Texas bans open-carry on the books, but it isn't really banned on the streets.
My grandfather open-carried a revolver in the county where and when Jess Sweeten was the sheriff. My sisters dated a guy who open-carried a revolver. When he'd come over to visit he'd remove his gunbelt and lay it atop the television.
John Wesley Hardin died in 1876. Due to the events preceding his death, the Texas legislature banned the open carry of handguns. It was a political overreaction to a newspaper campaign.
John Wesley Hardin is still dead. Angel Maturino Resendez subsequently proved that neither guns nor knives were needed to kill a lot of people. The legislature has not subsequently banned telephones and laundry irons.
Waterwagonboom 06-23-2008, 15:14 So the FACT is Texas allows open carry in 75% of the situations where a person can legally carry a handgun.
That statement is very misleading. General open carry is not legal in Texas. That 75% is actually few situations.
While he never considered proposing an open-carry measure, Patterson said he has seen the practice in Arizona.
"I went into the bank, and a guy walked in with a .45 in his back pocket," he said. "I thought, 'Well, that’s unusual.’
Yes, we can open carry here in AZ, but the weapon must be in a holster designed for that purpose. You CAN NOT 'Mexican-style' carry by simply shoving the gun down the front of your pants or putting it 'in your back pocket'. It would only be legal if the .45 was in some kind of a holster, inside the back pocket. And if it was, how did he know it was a .45? :dunno:
i'm 4624...4625 as of 3:00pm central
how many signatures are needed for something to happen?
Landmonster 06-23-2008, 15:59 I just signed up.
Please do it!
http://www.petitiononline.com/texasoc/petition.html
HerrGlock 06-23-2008, 16:00 The article has generated more publicity than I ever thought it would.
I've just finished an interview with Fox 4 news for tonight at 5 or 6 pm.
Yes, I'm Duane Suddeth.
Pleased to meet'cha. They posted it. I found it. :supergrin:
Nice interview :thumbsup:
woohoo! 4326 last count Your Not Really from Texas, Are You? You need to read up on our history. Or take I-35 North....
Landmonster 06-23-2008, 16:07 Hit the petition guys
You should sign that, if you support open carry in TX.
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?texasoc&1
DKSuddeth 06-23-2008, 16:07 Pleased to meet'cha. They posted it. I found it. :supergrin:
Nice interview :thumbsup:
if you are talking about the fox 4 interview, please post the link. :wow:
sohaltang 06-23-2008, 16:13 Hit the petition guys
You should sign that, if you support open carry in TX.
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?texasoc&1
4770 Signatures Total That was me :)
grindchug 06-23-2008, 16:15 wow 300+signatures since I read this post and signed it.
HerrGlock 06-23-2008, 16:28 if you are talking about the fox 4 interview, please post the link. :wow:
Lemme look, but was talking about the article about the interview.
Peace Warrior 06-23-2008, 16:29 FLORIDA needs to be next!!!
+1,000,000 :thumbsup:
But Im glad to here Texas may come around for its law abiding citizens.
Go Texas!
HerrGlock 06-23-2008, 16:32 Holy cow, are people really that blind to the fact that this is legal in a lot of other states?
Read the comments on the page. It's pathetic.
Holy cow, are people really that blind to the fact that this is legal in a lot of other states?
Read the comments on the page. It's pathetic.Here is one...
<TABLE class=pfMsgDisplayTable><TBODY><TR><TD class=pfMsgBody colSpan=2>Ban all guns!!! I am dead set aganst the open carry thing. I say ban all the weapons and guns from everybody including the crimanals. Then there'll be a safer place to live in. I've all ways been down on guns since the beginning. Melt them all down and make something out of them that involves peace. Outlaw all rifles, guns, pistols or what have you. Just make them illeagle. Then we'll have the peace we want.
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=pfMsgActionBar colSpan=2></TD></TR><TR><TD class=pfMsgEnvelope>
Posted by: Neo-flower child
http://acx.prospero.com/dir-icon/0/4/c.icon
6/23/2008 7:53 AM
3318.16 Report as Violation (http://pod01.prospero.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=tosReportMaster&tsn=16&webtag=kr-fortworthtm&tid=3318&ptpw=y)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Chowdadi 06-23-2008, 16:57 If Texas doesn't become an open carry state, I'd sure like to see lifetime concealed weapon permits issued here.
txinvestigator 06-23-2008, 17:51 That statement is very misleading. General open carry is not legal in Texas. That 75% is actually few situations.
It is not misleading at ALL. It is factual. But I didn't LIE, like the petition does. ;)
txinvestigator 06-23-2008, 17:54 If Texas doesn't become an open carry state, I'd sure like to see lifetime concealed weapon permits issued here.
It won't. At least not in the foreseeable future.
I understand the thinking behind the lifetime licensing; but we get new laws every 2 years, people get convicted of crimes, etc.
Now, you have to renew ever 5 years after your first renewal, and on the third and subsequent renewal you only need the class every other renewal.
Yellowfin 06-23-2008, 18:09 Ban all guns!!! I am dead set aganst the open carry thing. I say ban all the weapons and guns from everybody including the crimanals. Then there'll be a safer place to live in. I've all ways been down on guns since the beginning. Melt them all down and make something out of them that involves peace. Outlaw all rifles, guns, pistols or what have you. Just make them illeagle. Then we'll have the peace we want.
Posted by: Neo-flower child
6/23/2008 7:53 AM
3318.16 Report as ViolationI am literally baffled how there are human beings with that little intelligence and that kind of mindset living and walking among us.
winchester62 06-23-2008, 18:32 Dude... Get a haircut!:supergrin:
ashtxsniper 06-23-2008, 18:41 double tap
M2 Carbine 06-23-2008, 18:48 So the FACT is Texas allows open carry in 75% of the situations where a person can legally carry a handgun.
And those situations are?
ashtxsniper 06-23-2008, 18:56 Signed this one when it was around the 2900 mark now its over 5000 .
PAGunner 06-23-2008, 18:57 I am literally baffled how there are human beings with that little intelligence and that kind of mindset living and walking among us.
I was gonna suggest to RussP that he report Neo-Flower Child for being in violation due to the fact she lacks the minimum IQ to give an opinion.
KilgoreTrout 06-23-2008, 18:58 Im all for open carry. Gives me plenty of time to clear my shirt, draw, and acquire a sight picture while you hard asses are the first ones getting shot at.
In Certain situations open carry would be a preventative measure. I think in MOST situations concealing still leaves the deck in your favor.
rvrctyrngr 06-23-2008, 19:05 Im all for open carry. Gives me plenty of time to clear my shirt, draw, and acquire a sight picture while you hard asses are the first ones getting shot at.
Yeah. That happens every day in AZ, IN, VA, PA, GA, WA, OR.....just the other day I was reading about....
Oh.
Wait.
No it doesn't.
G36Packer 06-23-2008, 19:16 Wasn't there another petition a while back? Although I would like to see open carry legal I doubt many employers would embrace open carry on the job.
4519 votes!
FLORIDA needs to be next!!!
That would have my support
RyanNREMTP 06-23-2008, 19:55 Cool I was number #59 on the list.
TexasNativeDRJH 06-23-2008, 19:57 #5314 here
sigdeputy 06-23-2008, 20:15 I can not believe it, but I signed it! I've never been a big OC fan, as I have stated here before, but it's time that Texas got on board.
sigdeputy is now officially on record as a supporter! :tongueout:
Your Not Really from Texas, Are You? You need to read up on our history. Or take I-35 North....
No, I'm not from Texas originally neither are 90% of the people I've met in Texas. Do I need a special permit to live here that I'm not aware of?
I don't know what your problem is but try to remember that we're on the same side.
DKSuddeth 06-23-2008, 20:53 Dude... Get a haircut!:supergrin:
my father keeps telling me that very same thing. :tongueout:
For all that would like to remain anonymous. You may want to edit the "I'm # **** out of your post.
Yellowfin 06-23-2008, 21:31 Open carry is about as anonymous as running for governor.
fgutie35 06-23-2008, 22:15 5553with my wife's signature till now. I read about the post on 18year olds getting permits, there is a requirement for that. You have to serve on the armed forces or National Guard for that. I know this because when I took the class, one of the students was 19yrs and he had just come back from a tour in Iraq. The ONE exception that texasinvestigator is talking about is when you are carrying a rifle in your car which HAS to be in plain view or else you are in trouble. About the 75% being able to open carry, well I never heard of that, and for sure wouldn't take his word for it and try it!:rofl:
txinvestigator 06-24-2008, 02:33 5553with my wife's signature till now. I read about the post on 18year olds getting permits, there is a requirement for that. You have to serve on the armed forces or National Guard for that. I know this because when I took the class, one of the students was 19yrs and he had just come back from a tour in Iraq. The ONE exception that texasinvestigator is talking about is when you are carrying a rifle in your car which HAS to be in plain view or else you are in trouble. About the 75% being able to open carry, well I never heard of that, and for sure wouldn't take his word for it and try it!:rofl:
Perhaps you should actually read the law. :rofl: :wow:
Here, I'll help you;
Texas Penal Code
b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(1) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a
member of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by
Section 431.001, Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal
institution;
(2) is on the person's own premises or premises under
the person's control unless the person is an employee or agent of
the owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility
is to act in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or
property, in which event the person must comply with Subdivision
(5);
(3) is traveling;
(4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other
sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is
conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's
residence, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;
(5) holds a security officer commission issued by the
Texas Private Security Board, if:
(A) the person is engaged in the performance of
the person's duties as a security officer or traveling to and from
the person's place of assignment;
(B) the person is wearing a distinctive uniform;
and
(C) the weapon is in plain view;
(6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid
license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to
carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the
person is carrying;
(7) holds a security officer commission and a personal
protection officer authorization issued by the Texas Private
Security Board and is providing personal protection under Chapter
1702, Occupations Code;
(8) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or
is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or
license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted
or licensed premises; or
(9) is a student in a law enforcement class engaging in
an activity required as part of the class, if the weapon is a type
commonly used in the activity and the person is:
(A) on the immediate premises where the activity
is conducted; or
(B) en route between those premises and the
person's residence and is carrying the weapon unloaded.
I was gonna suggest to RussP that he report Neo-Flower Child for being in violation due to the fact she lacks the minimum IQ to give an opinion.I checked, and Moderator authority does not extend to citing neo-flower children. I was in San Francisco in the 70s - I didn't like them then, and probably don't need to meet this one. :upeyes:
:cool:
There is no under 18 year old prohibition. The only age restriction comes from this law;
That law makes the violator the adult who left the gun there, not the child.
You're forgetting federal law. The 1968GCA, revised as the "Youth Handgun Safety Act," states you must be 18+ to own, possess, or buy (though a private sale) a handgun.
http://iweb.tntech.edu/cpardue/youthnotice.html
Yeah. That happens every day in AZ, IN, VA, PA, GA, WA, OR.....just the other day I was reading about....
Oh.
Wait.
No it doesn't.
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
Chalk one up there for me. :patriot:
Wow, over 100 sigs in the last 30 mins. :woohoo:
RyanNREMTP 06-24-2008, 18:28 Rehash of the Fox clip but one of the local channels just had a bit about open carry.
Let's see how far we can take this.
7888 now.
I'm in there too, though not the latest, several added as I was hitting the SUBMIT button.
txinvestigator 06-25-2008, 07:03 You're forgetting federal law. The 1968GCA, revised as the "Youth Handgun Safety Act," states you must be 18+ to own, possess, or buy (though a private sale) a handgun.
http://iweb.tntech.edu/cpardue/youthnotice.html
Ok. The question was about Texas law.
BrandonR 06-25-2008, 07:20 In my opinion, getting rid of the stupid 30.06 signs and law that allows private businesses to say you're automatically trespassing if you enter with a legally owned gun should take priority over open carrying. Virtually everywhere you go, the business is often likely to have a 30.06 sign, meaning it's unfriendly to those carrying.
txinvestigator 06-25-2008, 07:32 In my opinion, getting rid of the stupid 30.06 signs and law that allows private businesses to say you're automatically trespassing if you enter with a legally owned gun should take priority over open carrying. Virtually everywhere you go, the business is often likely to have a 30.06 sign, meaning it's unfriendly to those carrying.
So a private property owner should have no say in who or what comes into his business?
I am in a major city, and see few 30.06 signs. In fact, I can't recall when I saw the last one.
chowchow 06-25-2008, 12:07 Right now Im pretty comfortable its concealed. No need to let someone know and somehow seen to others as an intimidation.
http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou080624_tj_gunlaws.368369a1.html
Group wants to carry handguns in plain view
10:46 PM CDT on Tuesday, June 24, 2008
By Kevin Reece / 11 News
Video: Kevin Reece's 11 News report
View larger player
More Video HOUSTON -- Inside Jim Pruett’s northwest Houston gun store, you can find a gun with a laser sight, weapons of all styles and Jim’s own .45 caliber pistol secured to his hip. When he leaves the store, however, he has to conceal it and keep it out of sight.
That is the law in Texas.
The law could change, and a petition with more than 7,000 signatures so far, is pushing for the state to adopt an open carry law. It would allow a gun owner to carry a handgun in the open for all the bad guys -- and the good guys -- to see.
Open carry law
Do you support an open carry law in Texas?
Yes
No
Not sure
View Results
“In certain places it would be a good crime deterrent,” said Pruett, a supporter of the group Open Carry.
Opponents see the push for open carry laws as a way to create gunslingers and promote "hotheads" to open fire.
“I think it’s a terrible idea,” said Richard Leal of Texans for Gun Safety Laws. “We’re going back to the gunslinger days, where basically… Here I am; you think you’re faster than I am? Let’s try it.”
Also online
Open Carry Web site
Texans for Gun Safety Web site
As the concealed handgun law in Texas stands now, you can get in trouble for displaying that weapon – even if it’s inadvertent – because it could be construed that you are using it for intimidation. That’s at the center of the open carry debate – is intimidation a bad thing or good thing?
“The bad guys are not worried about the police. They’re not worried about jail. That’s part of their life,” said Pruett. “They’re worried about citizens who are armed and might shoot them.”
Leal sees the open carry laws as wrought with potential for abuse.
“I don’t need to be intimidated by it. That’s not your purpose to intimidate me. But regardless of what your purpose is, it’s how I react to the situation (that counts),” said Leal.
How the governor and legislature react is what both sides of the debate are waiting for next.
I would prefer to see concealed carry without a permit like Vermont before open carry. I just don't really see the point except if I am hiking or something.
Longtooths 06-25-2008, 12:10 +1000% for open carry.
Don't get me wrong, I would like to see open carry too, but I think the focus right now should be on better concealed carry laws, because right now, frankly, the texas conceal carry laws STINK. 51%, no carry at school functions, no carry on college campuses, no carry in churches, etc, etc.
Waterwagonboom 06-25-2008, 12:11 Look at it as one more obstacle the anti gunners have to overcome. We need to gain ground, not just hold it. I'm all for it but I'll keep mine concealed.
fnfalman 06-25-2008, 12:13 I like to pack my iron on my side the way God and John Wayne wanted to be done.
The hell with that concealed carry crap. Why do I have to appease the sheeps? If they don't like seeing my irons, then don't look at me.
grindchug 06-25-2008, 12:24 I think the option to open carry would prevent a lot of petty crime not to mention protect a permit holder if he is printing or someone catches a glance at his carry piece
Don't get me wrong, I would like to see open carry too, but I think the focus right now should be on better concealed carry laws, because right now, frankly, the texas conceal carry laws STINK. 51%, no carry at school functions, no carry on college campuses, no carry in churches, etc, etc.
I have to agree with you. Although I do not think I would open carry, I am all for god, honest people being able to if they so desire.
txinvestigator 06-25-2008, 12:48 I think the option to open carry would prevent a lot of petty crime not to mention protect a permit holder if he is printing or someone catches a glance at his carry piece
He does not need protection from those things now.
This reminds me me of a funny discussion I had with a couple of guys years ago. I was talking with them (I forget where they were from) and the subject of guns, CCW, came up. One of them said something along the lines of "Man I like Texas, you can just carry a 6-shooter on your side like a cowboy!" I laughed and told them...man you have it totally backwards, open carry is legal here...not in Texas. You do it in Texas even accidentally and it is against the law. They were like What? Really?!
They actually thought it was like the wild west in Texas, when actually we have less restrictive guns laws here. I even pointed out we can have 10 handguns or long-guns in our vehicles loaded or unloaded, concealed or in plain sight, with no permit required if we wanted. They were floored.
Anyways, I hope you guys in TX get it passed. :cheers:
saigonsmuggler 06-25-2008, 13:00 Yep the only times I saw a 30.06 was a local Austin hospital and my old workplace. Otherwise I have not seen a 30.06 on any local businesses.
There is no reason why a person should be forced to hide or disguise his use of a constitutional right.
That being said, I prefer to carry concealed, but I like knowing that it does not matter if I am seen carrying.
grindchug 06-25-2008, 13:14 He does not need protection from those things now.
Uh. Yes it is illegal to show a firearm that you are carrying in public.
witheringfire 06-25-2008, 13:43 For the record, I oppose all open carry. The visible presense of a firearm has the potential to escalate a situation as much as de-escalate it. Additionally, open carry can present an image of someone thinking they "have something to prove". Makes one wonder about those who have CCW permits and still prefer to OC. The only time the firearm you are carrying needs to become visible is when you are about to pull the trigger. For that reason, I do fully support "shall issue" laws everywhere with regard to CCW - provided the individual has aquired the proper training in use of force and maintains ongoing weapons qualifications to insure that he/she can put the rounds where they need to go.
M2 Carbine 06-25-2008, 13:43 Do you support an open carry law in Texas?
Yes...
grindchug 06-25-2008, 13:48 For the record, I oppose all open carry. The visible presense of a firearm has the potential to escalate a situation as much as de-escalate it. Additionally, open carry can present an image of someone thinking they "have something to prove". Makes one wonder about those who have CCW permits and still prefer to OC. The only time the firearm you are carrying needs to become visible is when you are about to pull the trigger. For that reason, I do fully support "shall issue" laws everywhere with regard to CCW - provided the individual has aquired the proper training in use of force and maintains ongoing weapons qualifications to insure that he/she can put the rounds where they need to go.
I can draw a firearm a hell of a lot easier from a belt or paddle holster than from my concealed carry rig covered by clothing.. not to mention it would be more comfortable in Texas heat or while doing things like bike riding, dog walking, boating, fishing, hiking etc..
For the record, I oppose all open carry. The visible presense of a firearm has the potential to escalate a situation as much as de-escalate it. Additionally, open carry can present an image of someone thinking they "have something to prove". Makes one wonder about those who have CCW permits and still prefer to OC. The only time the firearm you are carrying needs to become visible is when you are about to pull the trigger. For that reason, I do fully support "shall issue" laws everywhere with regard to CCW - provided the individual has aquired the proper training in use of force and maintains ongoing weapons qualifications to insure that he/she can put the rounds where they need to go.
Then don't open carry if it becomes available, it's rather simple. I will continue to support your right to carry concealed but as a long time CHL holder I for one would like the option of carrying open if I so choose. I don't think we should restrict or make everyones decision for them based on our personal feelings. That is precisely what the gun banners say about YOUR firearms at home or YOUR CHL -- and they have no proof.
What is your evidence that open carry is a problem? Notice that like the gun banners, those that would infringe a right have the obligation of showing proof, not just beliefs or feelings?
There are NO significant problems for either CHL nor Open Carry.
In fact, there are NO gun control laws that can be shown to work. Not one, no matter how reasonable sounding they are.
Not even NICS/Brady background checks have been shown to work. (And they aren't even enforced on criminals so they cannot be necessary.)
Please respect everyone's right to choose. The way to do that is to support the petition. Choice is good.
Drunkenmonkey 06-25-2008, 13:54 I support it because I think its a basic right but I do think its a really dumb idea.
Yes, I'm for open carry in Texas. And, in Florida where I live.
Same as the helmet law for me. I may not open carry often but I'd like to be
free to make the choice. I would sure like to be able to open carry in my own car. :steamed:
For the record, I oppose all open carry. The visible presense of a firearm has the potential to escalate a situation as much as de-escalate it. Additionally, open carry can present an image of someone thinking they "have something to prove". Makes one wonder about those who have CCW permits and still prefer to OC. The only time the firearm you are carrying needs to become visible is when you are about to pull the trigger. For that reason, I do fully support "shall issue" laws everywhere with regard to CCW - provided the individual has aquired the proper training in use of force and maintains ongoing weapons qualifications to insure that he/she can put the rounds where they need to go.
So we can anticipate you moving to Great Britain to become a Bobby. If not STFU
machinisttx 06-25-2008, 13:57 I already wrote my state reps and told them I don't support it.
witheringfire 06-25-2008, 14:16 So we can anticipate you moving to Great Britain to become a Bobby. If not STFU
I never said my position would be popular - common sense rarely is.
When someone makes a derrogatory and inflamatory response to the legitimate expression of others (as you have done), all it does is add evidence to support the position that there are those who should not be allowed to possess a weapon under any circumstances. If a person cannot maintain their composure while sitting at their keyboard, it certainly brings into question their ability to maintain themselves while in possession of a deadly weapon.
Daryl in Az 06-25-2008, 14:22 Not all that long ago, concealed carry was seen as a threat, simply because you couldn't see who did and and who didn't have a firearm. Criminals prefered concealed carry, so concealed carry was pretty much outlawed in most of this country.
Of course, criminals don't obey the laws, and many continued to carry concealed.
It's interesting now that concealed carry is seen as ok (with a permit, of course), but now OPEN carry is seen as a "threat" to others. The liberals don't want people to be "offended", supposedly, so they want to ban open carry.
In the long run, they want to outlaw ALL forms of carry. Their objective on this matter is blatantly clear. Turn carry into a priviledge by tempting people with the ability to carry concealed. Then, when they're used to that, take away open carry, because it's now seen as offensive. Then, all they have to do it outlaw concealed carry, since it's now a privilege, and the law abiding citizen is done.
Carry a firearm any way you want that's legal, and I'll do the same. Here in Arizona, open carry is legal, and it always has been (no permit required). The predictions of the nay-sayers haven't happened here, so they can get over it.
I hope Texas sees the light and makes open carry an option for their citizens, as should be their right. I remain unimpressed by the elitist views of many who want to dictate concealed carry for everyone.
Daryl
I support open carry and concealed carry. It should be the discretion of the honest citizen who chooses to carry.
I'm really cuddley, and I live in Laredo where it's HOT. I support open carry, mainly because it would be a relief from the constant worry about printing. I don't think, (never say never) I would ever carry completely open.
slewfoot 06-25-2008, 14:47 I support open carry and concealed carry. It should be the discretion of the honest citizen who chooses to carry.
I agree 100%. Although I have never carried openly, I am allowed by state law to do so, if I wish. That is my right.
skeeter1959 06-25-2008, 14:57 An armed society is a polite society. Nuff said.
uneasyrider 06-25-2008, 15:01 I support it because I think its a basic right but I do think its a really dumb idea.
Me too.
Yes, I'm for open carry in Texas. And, in Florida where I live.
Same as the helmet law for me. I may not open carry often but I'd like to be
free to make the choice. I would sure like to be able to open carry in my own car. :steamed:
Me too.
And as an added bonus all these guys open carrying would be the first target of a deranged shooter. :wow:
robbcayman 06-25-2008, 15:17 I am in support of the law, but I wouldn't personally do it.
Imagine if you are in a gas station, and two individuals start to rob it and notice you are carrying a side arm. My bet is they are going to start shooting in your direction.
However, playing Devil's advocate; if they were about to rob it and spotted you wearing your side arm it might deter them. I guess it depends on how you look at it.
racerford 06-25-2008, 16:04 Don't get me wrong, I would like to see open carry too, but I think the focus right now should be on better concealed carry laws, because right now, frankly, the texas conceal carry laws STINK. 51%, no carry at school functions, no carry on college campuses, no carry in churches, etc, etc.
You can carry in a church now, the law changed. They have to post using the standard sign, like any other place. Same is true of hospitals. I have seen one properly posted hospital, and no properly posted churches (not that I frequent a lot of either).
StudParker 06-25-2008, 16:11 Me too.
Me too.
And as an added bonus all these guys open carrying would be the first target of a deranged shooter. :wow:
Again, the tired old arguement of the "anti's". Cite just one instance (with links) where a bad guy took out a legally open carrying good guy before committing his crime.
People, we're all in this together. Stop going "all or none". You don't want to carry open, fine. But, how about the freedom to relax your dress a bit and not worry about printing, or exposing a bit when you bend down. They're not seeing it now...and I can tell you the majority of folks don't notice a sidearm openly carried either. Or let me restate that....In my experiences open carrying virtually no one notices the sidearm. And so far, those that have have been fine. Not. One. Problem.
Again, the tired old arguement of the "anti's". Cite just one instance (with links) where a bad guy took out a legally open carrying good guy before committing his crime.
People, we're all in this together. Stop going "all or none". You don't want to carry open, fine. But, how about the freedom to relax your dress a bit and not worry about printing, or exposing a bit when you bend down. They're not seeing it now...and I can tell you the majority of folks don't notice a sidearm openly carried either. Or let me restate that....In my experiences open carrying virtually no one notices the sidearm. And so far, those that have have been fine. Not. One. Problem.
Well said. There hasn't been a single documented case of a OCer being shot first at some robbery or shooting. Just like there hasn't been a single documented case of a OCer's firearm being snatched from his holster. And I'm pretty sure that if that happened, you'd think the anti-gun media would be posting this all over the place as a reason to ban carry.
We're all on the same side here. We all carry guns for self-protection. I support both OC and CC. Just because YOU don't like OC, what gives you the right to tell others they CAN'T? That's exactly what the anti-gun people do. THEY don't like guns, so they don't want YOU to have them.
I never said my position would be popular - common sense rarely is.
When someone makes a derrogatory and inflamatory response to the legitimate expression of others (as you have done), all it does is add evidence to support the position that there are those who should not be allowed to possess a weapon under any circumstances. If a person cannot maintain their composure while sitting at their keyboard, it certainly brings into question their ability to maintain themselves while in possession of a deadly weapon.
I was foolish enough to think you may be smart enough to see the correlation between what you said about open carry and the fact that the police dont carry guns in GB. In the future I will not make the same mistake of giving you the benefit of doubt when it comes to intellect.
So here goes nothing. Police in the US are often viewed as "something to prove guys", because either they got picked on in school or they have a Napoleon complex(that refers to short men and insecurities). Therefore if you are not one of those guys that feels as though he has something to prove, you should move to a place where LEO's dont carry guns.
Alternatively, you are a "something to prove guy" and you will stay in the USA, at which point I would invite you to STFU when it comes to the constitutional rights of US citizens to bear arms. Or get some more of that training you tout for citizens to carry. I dont want you to be scared of the big bad guys with guns.
ComeAndGetThem 06-25-2008, 16:54 For the record, I oppose all open carry. The visible presense of a firearm has the potential to escalate a situation as much as de-escalate it. Additionally, open carry can present an image of someone thinking they "have something to prove". Makes one wonder about those who have CCW permits and still prefer to OC. The only time the firearm you are carrying needs to become visible is when you are about to pull the trigger. For that reason, I do fully support "shall issue" laws everywhere with regard to CCW - provided the individual has aquired the proper training in use of force and maintains ongoing weapons qualifications to insure that he/she can put the rounds where they need to go.
I used to skydive every weekend for 12 years. Many of my friends and family thought I was going to get dead but none of them were on a crusade to try and outlaw/prevent the activity.
I totally understand why someone wouldn't want to open carry themselves.....they might not think that it's tactically sound. But why do you want to try and restrict someone elses choices?
I support the open carry option, I just wish Florida would see the light also.
txinvestigator 06-25-2008, 17:25 Uh. Yes it is illegal to show a firearm that you are carrying in public.
No, it is illegal to intentionally fail to conceal it. Look up the definition of "intentionally" in the penal code. Accidentally printing or even the accidental flash of the handgun is not illegal.
txinvestigator 06-25-2008, 17:29 Well said. There hasn't been a single documented case of a OCer being shot first at some robbery or shooting. Just like there hasn't been a single documented case of a OCer's firearm being snatched from his holster. .
That you know of. Unless you have conducted exhaustive research on the subject.
I used to skydive every weekend for 12 years. Many of my friends and family thought I was going to get dead but none of them were on a crusade to try and outlaw/prevent the activity.
I totally understand why someone wouldn't want to open carry themselves.....they might not think that it's tactically sound. But why do you want to try and restrict someone elses choices?:thumbsup:
Well said. There hasn't been a single documented case of a OCer being shot first at some robbery or shooting. Just like there hasn't been a single documented case of a OCer's firearm being snatched from his holster... That you know of. Unless you have conducted exhaustive research on the subject.Do you know of any? If you do, please share.
Thanks
I've lived in many open carry states, AZ, MS, LA, and VA, and seldom open carried unless I was on duty. That said, I do concealed carry off duty, and, most likely would occasionally open carry off duty if Texas "permits" it as law. I fully support the concept of open carry for anyone who can legally possess or own a firearm, as their choice under 2nd rights. It should be a choice, not a mandate.
I've yet to hear of an incident, excluding LEOs shooting incidents, where an OC civilian was attacked by a perp while open carrying. Can anyone on the oppostion to OC cite a valid, verifiable incident? If not, perhaps the "Brady Bunch" needs their assistance in telling society how "bad" guns are!:upeyes:
txinvestigator 06-25-2008, 19:08 Do you know of any? If you do, please share.
Thanks
Russ, I do not, other than the many times guards and armored car guards have been shot. However, just because I don't know of many does not mean there are no documented cases.
When such a definitive statement is made a source or evidence is nice to have. Otherwise, call me skeptical.
ComeAndGetThem 06-25-2008, 19:37 Russ, I do not, other than the many times guards and armored car guards have been shot. However, just because I don't know of many does not mean there are no documented cases.
When such a definitive statement is made a source or evidence is nice to have. Otherwise, call me skeptical.
You weren't talking to me but Police Officers or armored car guards getting shot is not comparable to civilian OC, in my judgement. Criminals hate cops and robbery is the motive with a Brinks truck or the like.
Russ, I do not, other than the many times guards and armored car guards have been shot. However, just because I don't know of many does not mean there are no documented cases.
When such a definitive statement is made a source or evidence is nice to have. Otherwise, call me skeptical.No criticism intended by my question. Just wanted you to know that - I think you knew.
Yes, it might be good if we could preface statements with, "I have never heard of...", or, "I can find no documented cases of...", and/or end with, "If you know of any cases about...".
chowchow 06-25-2008, 20:04 Im just concern if once approved and these open carry persons knocking at your front door delivering pizza or soliciting business. Once you open , you see him armed with a glock. That would really make me nervous.
Daryl in Az 06-25-2008, 20:20 I started open carrying as a teen-ager, maybe 15 or 16 years old. I didn't carry everywhere, but spent a lot of time outdoors and wore a handgun pretty much always while doing that.
If I stopped along the way (convenient stores, gas stations, etc) I didn't usually bother to take the handgun off. No one seemed to care, and I only got checked one time by law enforcement (I was riding a Honda ATC at the time). Nothing came of it, because I'd broken no laws.
As the years went by, I carried more and more often. I carried a Ruger Blackhawk in .357 mag for a while, then traded it off on what was then a newly introduced Ruger GP-100 with a 4" barrel. This one I carried quite a few years, and wore it pretty steadily.
Then when I worked in a gun shop for a while, some gal came in looking for a handgun for her husband for Christmas. He really wanted a blued 4" GP-100, so I did a trade with the store for a 4" S&W 686. I carried that one equally often.
When CCW became legal in Arizona, I got my CCW permit. I've kept if valid over the years, and it's handy at times. It gives me more carry options, and allows me to carry a bit more often (some places only let you carry with a ccw permit).
But, having a CCW permit in no way negates my right to carry openly. I carry both ways, but prefer open carry for the comfort.
And in all these years, I've never had a problem caused by open carry. Very few people even seem to notice.
So, don't pay too much attention to me when I giggle at all the hoopla over the dangers/worries about open carry. It's just a tool that I wear on my belt; much like the leatherman and cell phone I carry equally as often.
Daryl
Im just concern if once approved and these open carry persons knocking at your front door delivering pizza or soliciting business. Once you open , you see him with a armed with a glock. That would really make me nervous.
Open Carry ONLY When and Where Appropriate.
When delivering a pizza is not appropriate. Concealed carry may be. That is covered in other recent threads.
Yellowfin 06-25-2008, 20:59 Does having other stuff on your belt like your cell phone distract from an OC'd sidearm and make it appear less out of place?
txinvestigator 06-25-2008, 21:15 You weren't talking to me but Police Officers or armored car guards getting shot is not comparable to civilian OC, in my judgement. Criminals hate cops and robbery is the motive with a Brinks truck or the like.
OK, but those are supposedely trained individuals and the crooks don't mind ambushing them.
However, notice how I wrote my answer to Russ. I believe I qualified my answer.
uneasyrider 06-25-2008, 21:19 Originally Posted by uneasyrider
Me too.
Me too.
And as an added bonus all these guys open carrying would be the first target of a deranged shooter. :wow:
Again, the tired old arguement of the "anti's". Cite just one instance (with links) where a bad guy took out a legally open carrying good guy before committing his crime.
People, we're all in this together. Stop going "all or none". You don't want to carry open, fine. But, how about the freedom to relax your dress a bit and not worry about printing, or exposing a bit when you bend down. They're not seeing it now...and I can tell you the majority of folks don't notice a sidearm openly carried either. Or let me restate that....In my experiences open carrying virtually no one notices the sidearm. And so far, those that have have been fine. Not. One. Problem.
Hey when you put the full text back in you see that I am for it not against it. And that's just a little joke at the end (although you never know :wow:).
Originally Posted by Drunkenmonkey
I support it because I think its a basic right but I do think its a really dumb idea.
Me too.
Originally Posted by Sandbag
Yes, I'm for open carry in Texas. And, in Florida where I live.
Same as the helmet law for me. I may not open carry often but I'd like to be
free to make the choice. I would sure like to be able to open carry in my own car.
Me too.
And as an added bonus all these guys open carrying would be the first target of a deranged shooter.
vBulletin® v3.7.3, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
|  Sponsored Links:
|