GSG-5 Problems - The Faisco Continues

[VWTactical]

Late last week, American Tactical Imports (ATI) received their third shipment of GSG-5 rifles from Germany. It was a long journey plagued with delays, but they're finally here. That's the good news.

The bad news is that Tony Dichario, president of ATI and Amchar Wholesale, has made a very hasty, last minute decision not to fulfill GSG-5 orders that he promised dealers-- orders that distributors, dealers, and end-users have patiently waited weeks and months for. Instead, Amchar is abandoning the distribution channel-- refusing to sell to Lipsey's, Sports South, Ellett Bros, and other distributors. In addition, ATI is requiring dealers to purchase an additional firearm with every GSG-5 they order. That means dealers need to purchase a Springfield XD, Kel-tec P-11, Bushmaster M4, etc. just for the "privilege" of acquiring a GSG-5. This 1:1 plan isn't "crazy" since ATI/Amchar is the exclusive importer of the GSG-5-- but it IS very stupid. And it has already angered a good many of us!

The policy wouldn't be such a bad idea if Amchar Wholesale actually stocked a broad-line of products like RSR, Lipsey's, Sports South, Ellett Bros, and other distributors. However, a third tier, backwoods distributor like Amchar doesn't afford dealers the same kind of luxury we've come to expect from others in the distribution channel. Luxuries like reliable service and predictable and ethical business practices. It would be fine if dealers could source hot-selling brands like S&W, HK, Glock, and Springfield Armory from Amchar. Unfortunately, they only sell S&W to law enforcement end-users and they never have enough Glock, HK, or Springfield Armory products in stock. To make matters worse-- Amchar's pricing isn't even inline with other distributors. So, to add insult to injury, it costs dealers more to purchase firearms from them!

According to an inside source at Amchar, the problem is with their cash flow. Amchar/ATI resources are stretched paper thin and they can't come up with the necessary capital to purchase the next shipment of GSG-5, which is already ready to ship from Germany! They're cash poor and desperate. Their solution: force dealers to buy an additional firearm with each GSG-5 they order. Problem solved? Hardly.

To say the fledgling GSG-5 has experienced growing pains is an understatement. ATI/Amchar's failure to execute timely distribution to dealers clearily demonstrates the staggering ineptitude of both firms and their boss, Tony Dichario. However, distribution problems by themselves are not enough to kill the GSG-5. Quality control issues are problematic for the brand and threaten its future. Several of our clients have already documented poor fit and finish, loose screws, cracked buttstocks, missing parts, cracked bolts, broken receivers, firing pin issues, stripped screws-- and an inability to get any service from ATI or Amchar Wholesale. These problems, coupled with the fact that the manufacturer in Germany (German Sport Guns) has a background primarily in airsoft guns, don't inspire confidence. ATI/Amchar/GSG need a quality product delivered in a timely fashion at an attractive price point-- period. Presently, they're failing to deliver on all counts.

http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/gsg5_cracked_bolt.jpg
Cracked Bolt on GSG-5

http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/gsg5_stripped_bolts.jpg
Stripped Screw Holes

The hysteria surrounding the GSG-5 is well documented. GSG-5s were selling upwards of $600 on Gunbroker during its highly-anticipated launch. Now, there are no bids on those auctions and dealer profit is suffering on these $405 rifles. If a dealer can only make $100 on one of these (and that's a big IF at this juncture)-- why would he buy another gun at a higher cost from a distributor that he cannot trust in the first place?

We're at a crossroads with the GSG-5, my friends. Demand increases, but a move by Amchar/ATI has created a bottleneck in the supply chain. Customers who have been waiting for weeks and months are frustrated to the point of cancelling orders and swearing off the GSG-5 altogether. The GSG-5 is a novelty item. It's a fun little plinker, but not much more than that. It should be cheap and easily produced in mass quantities. We've seen this time and time again in the firearms industry: a firm comes out with a hot new product-- a product that won't be available for months and months. People lose interest and spend their money elsewhere. In this economy, I can't blame them.

Just wanted to let you guys know what's going on. We're done doing business with ATI/Amchar. A lot of other dealers feel the same way. Take care and as always-- stay On Point and God Bless.
-- Evan

[TylerDurden]

No offense, but I can't for the life of me understand why so many people jumped on board for a .22 built by an Airsoft company.

Thanks for the info, Evan.

[JoshuaC]

So glad I skipped by this little gimmick.

[Fenway]

Very interesting. Thanks!

[LUVMYSIGP225]

If a .22 cracks the bolt, it must be made out of Balsa wood. Good to know. I ALMOST bought one. ALMOST.

[JoshuaC]

Looks like quality MIM parts at work.

[legion3]

The hysteria surrounding the GSG-5 is well documented. GSG-5s were selling upwards of $600 on Gunbroker during its highly-anticipated launch. Now, there are no bids on those auctions and dealer profit is suffering on these $405 rifles. If a dealer can only make $100 on one of these (and that's a big IF at this juncture)-- why would he buy another gun at a higher cost from a distributor that he cannot trust in the first place?

I'm sorry but these are the last 4 sales on Gunbroker and one pending. I deleted the other 4 I was watching that also closed above $600

So the bids on gunbroker are still quite brisk. So somebody must want these rifles despite the plague.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=101702097

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=102531027

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=102704899

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=102449536

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=102428150

[40Pirate]

LOVE mine, sorry to hear about other folks having problems though.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l44/bearzbucket/Guns/GSG-5light.jpg

Planning on getting the pistol version as well

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x124/jackal2001/gsg5/GSG5PK1.jpg

[Glockdude1]

Make me glad I stayed with my 10/22.

:cool:

[01coltcolt]

LOVE mine, sorry to hear about other folks having problems though.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l44/bearzbucket/Guns/GSG-5light.jpg

Planning on getting the pistol version as well

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x124/jackal2001/gsg5/GSG5PK1.jpg

+1 3000 ROUNDS and counting? No problems here.

[40Pirate]

To our valued consumers and distributors,

As some of you may already know, a recent negative review of the GSG-5 carbine and our company American Tactical Imports surfaced online. Although we are not at liberty to publish the name or web address of the person responsible for this review, we would like to take this opportunity to rebut the untrue and defamatory accusations about our company and our product and address any concerns you may have concerning these issues.

We here at American Tactical Imports understand that with the high demand for the GSG-5 carbine, product availability has been stretched. We assure you that this has nothing to do with any lack of expertise on our part in the importing or distribution of our product. Our dedicated staff works long hours to ensure that the firearms are distributed immediately upon receiving shipments from Germany, often turning them around and sending them out to distributors the same day we receive them. As for the number of firearms shipped to the country, many of you are already aware that we have recently begun receiving 40 foot containers of product, doubling the amount of firearms we are importing in an attempt to keep up with consumer demand for these fun and excellent weapons.

We also understand that there have been many issues raised by our customers surrounding the customer service and repair department for the GSG-5. We do have an on staff and full time gunsmith who was trained in Germany at German Sport Guns to service the GSG-5 who has been fielding all calls and issues that come in to ATI. We are also aware that many of you have been in direct contact with German Sport Guns for your repair issues, and have read that the service was exemplary and satisfied all of your questions concerning repair of your firearm. Both American Tactical Imports and German Sport Guns have listened to consumer feedback and are using that to help improve our products – a good example of this is the issue surrounding the rear sights and the buttstocks for the GSG-5, both issues that were brought to light by the consumers and have now been addressed in the design of the latest GSG-5 models.

There have also been false accusations placed that American Tactical Imports is requiring “dealers” to purchase additional firearms in order to receive their GSG-5 and GSG-5P firearms. This is wildly false. American Tactical Imports, as many of you already know, does not sell to dealers or individuals at all. The GSG-5 is purchased by distributors who in turn sell them down to the dealer level. Any sales terms about additional firearm purchases with the GSG-5 are up to the distributors, not to American Tactical Imports. It is unacceptable to hold us (American Tactical Imports) accountable for distributor sales terms as that is completely out of our hands.

The bottom line is this – both American Tactical Imports and the GSG-5 are still relatively newcomers in the firearms market. We are extremely pleased with how well received our product has been and appreciate the overwhelming support and enthusiasm that has been shown for it. With your continued support we will keep growing and improving both our company and our product line.

Brenton Chapman
American Tactical Imports

Copied from another board

[intheburbs]

OK, so it's an MP-5 clone in .22LR that costs $500-$600.

No offense to those owners of said weapon, but I have to ask. Why? :headscratch: What's the point?

[Victoriagotagun]

OK, so it's an MP-5 clone in .22LR that costs $500-$600.

No offense to those owners of said weapon, but I have to ask. Why? :headscratch: What's the point?

So you can have a MP5 clone in .22lr :tongueout:

[orlando_5]

OK, so it's an MP-5 clone in .22LR that costs $500-$600.

No offense to those owners of said weapon, but I have to ask. Why? :headscratch: What's the point?

Fun.

With that said, $500+ is too much. For that price I'll buy a Spike 22lr upper.

[legion3]

Fun.

With that said, $500+ is too much. For that price I'll buy a Spike 22lr upper.


Apparently not based on the going price on gunbroker... over $600 before shipping and fee.

[nick__45]

No offense, but I can't for the life of me understand why so many people jumped on board for a .22 built by an Airsoft company.

Thanks for the info, Evan.

probably for the same reason they jump on the plastic bandwagon when a company that make spoons, shovel, and other plastic stuff came out with a plastic gun. people like to try new things. as for glock case, it is a good thing we got on the bandwagon for possibly the greatest budget guns of all.

the mp5 lookalike is very cool looking. i like to have one at the range and spill thousands of rounds for under 40 bucks. if these things are reliable, they are well worth the money as a 10/22 that undergo some tacticool cost the same as well.

for now, i stick with my 10/22
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd148/nick__45/P1040380.jpg

[40Pirate]

OK, so it's an MP-5 clone in .22LR that costs $500-$600.

No offense to those owners of said weapon, but I have to ask. Why? :headscratch: What's the point?

In the photo I posted you may have a noticed a second rifle, that one is a MP5 clone in .45acp. As you can imagine the .22 is shot more, but the skills transfer smoothly.

[DriBak]

I still want one, the pistol version looks sweet also.

[legion3]

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x49/roman3/Military/ouch.jpg

[-gunut-]

I was really looking forward to the AK they are releasing but maybe I should just get a 10/22 and a krink plinker kit...

[LoneRanger19]

I was really looking forward to the AK they are releasing but maybe I should just get a 10/22 and a krink plinker kit...

I was thinking the same thing. The GSG-5 looks very cool but I rather have a old reliable format with a new skin that looks pretty much like an MP-5.

[40Pirate]

If you are happy with the 10-22 thats great IMO, but I have never had a reliable magazine for one that held over 10 rounds.

[WSUXJer]

My GSG5 has been fine, no problems in 1100 rounds so far. I'm glad I bought it. ;)

[mp5a3]

If you want an MP5, get an MP5. It's like saying you want a Glock but will only pay $50. If it's a MP5, it better say "HK .. Made in Germany" somewhere on it..

[TylerDurden]

My GSG5 has been fine, no problems in 1100 rounds so far. I'm glad I bought it. ;)

1100 rounds should be a drop in the bucket for a .22 rifle, says nothing about its reliability. My Winchester 62A has hundreds of thousands of rounds through it.

[40Pirate]

If you want an MP5, get an MP5. It's like saying you want a Glock but will only pay $50. If it's a MP5, it better say "HK .. Made in Germany" somewhere on it..

Don't want a MP5, have no need for a 9mm carbine.

A .22 sure, .45 you bet, 9mm not if I have to spend money for it :supergrin:

[TylerDurden]

Don't want a MP5, have no need for a 9mm carbine.

A .22 sure, .45 you bet, 9mm not if I have to spend money for it :supergrin:

His is no carbine, it's pure submachinegun goodness, and it makes me green with envy.

[01coltcolt]

If you want an MP5, get an MP5. It's like saying you want a Glock but will only pay $50. If it's a MP5, it better say "HK .. Made in Germany" somewhere on it..

You forgot to mention the $18,000-$25,000 dollars price tag. The class 3 dealer transfer $200.00 (on average) If you are allowed in your state and you find a dealer. The $200.00 tax stamp if the local law signs your form. After all that try to find one these days..........................they are out there and it can be done but not by the average joe.:whistling:
http://www.impactguns.com/store/MGT-3933.html

[fnfalman]

No offense, but I can't for the life of me understand why so many people jumped on board for a .22 built by an Airsoft company.

Thanks for the info, Evan.

Probably the same kind of people that shells out good money for tin pot guns like the SIG Mosquito and the Walther P22. Whatever, it ain't my money.:dunno:

[WSUXJer]

1100 rounds should be a drop in the bucket for a .22 rifle, says nothing about its reliability. My Winchester 62A has hundreds of thousands of rounds through it.
For a rifle I've only had a month or so, I'd say that's pretty good.

[TylerDurden]

Probably the same kind of people that shells out good money for tin pot guns like the SIG Mosquito and the Walther P22. Whatever, it ain't my money.:dunno:

Ugghh... Mosquito and P22.

[Forgoten214]

Ugghh... Mosquito and P22.

The VT shooter had a P22

[TylerDurden]

The VT shooter had a P22

And....?

[Glock22C]

Late last week, American Tactical Imports (ATI) received their third shipment of GSG-5 rifles from Germany. It was a long journey plagued with delays, but they're finally here. That's the good news.

The bad news is that Tony Dichario, president of ATI and Amchar Wholesale, has made a very hasty, last minute decision not to fulfill GSG-5 orders that he promised dealers-- orders that distributors, dealers, and end-users have patiently waited weeks and months for. Instead, Amchar is abandoning the distribution channel-- refusing to sell to Lipsey's, Sports South, Ellett Bros, and other distributors. In addition, ATI is requiring dealers to purchase an additional firearm with every GSG-5 they order. That means dealers need to purchase a Springfield XD, Kel-tec P-11, Bushmaster M4, etc. just for the "privilege" of acquiring a GSG-5. This 1:1 plan isn't "crazy" since ATI/Amchar is the exclusive importer of the GSG-5-- but it IS very stupid. And it has already angered a good many of us!

The policy wouldn't be such a bad idea if Amchar Wholesale actually stocked a broad-line of products like RSR, Lipsey's, Sports South, Ellett Bros, and other distributors. However, a third tier, backwoods distributor like Amchar doesn't afford dealers the same kind of luxury we've come to expect from others in the distribution channel. Luxuries like reliable service and predictable and ethical business practices. It would be fine if dealers could source hot-selling brands like S&W, HK, Glock, and Springfield Armory from Amchar. Unfortunately, they only sell S&W to law enforcement end-users and they never have enough Glock, HK, or Springfield Armory products in stock. To make matters worse-- Amchar's pricing isn't even inline with other distributors. So, to add insult to injury, it costs dealers more to purchase firearms from them!

According to an inside source at Amchar, the problem is with their cash flow. Amchar/ATI resources are stretched paper thin and they can't come up with the necessary capital to purchase the next shipment of GSG-5, which is already ready to ship from Germany! They're cash poor and desperate. Their solution: force dealers to buy an additional firearm with each GSG-5 they order. Problem solved? Hardly.

To say the fledgling GSG-5 has experienced growing pains is an understatement. ATI/Amchar's failure to execute timely distribution to dealers clearily demonstrates the staggering ineptitude of both firms and their boss, Tony Dichario. However, distribution problems by themselves are not enough to kill the GSG-5. Quality control issues are problematic for the brand and threaten its future. Several of our clients have already documented poor fit and finish, loose screws, cracked buttstocks, missing parts, cracked bolts, broken receivers, firing pin issues, stripped screws-- and an inability to get any service from ATI or Amchar Wholesale. These problems, coupled with the fact that the manufacturer in Germany (German Sport Guns) has a background primarily in airsoft guns, don't inspire confidence. ATI/Amchar/GSG need a quality product delivered in a timely fashion at an attractive price point-- period. Presently, they're failing to deliver on all counts.

http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/gsg5_cracked_bolt.jpg
Cracked Bolt on GSG-5

http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/gsg5_stripped_bolts.jpg
Stripped Screw Holes

The hysteria surrounding the GSG-5 is well documented. GSG-5s were selling upwards of $600 on Gunbroker during its highly-anticipated launch. Now, there are no bids on those auctions and dealer profit is suffering on these $405 rifles. If a dealer can only make $100 on one of these (and that's a big IF at this juncture)-- why would he buy another gun at a higher cost from a distributor that he cannot trust in the first place?

We're at a crossroads with the GSG-5, my friends. Demand increases, but a move by Amchar/ATI has created a bottleneck in the supply chain. Customers who have been waiting for weeks and months are frustrated to the point of cancelling orders and swearing off the GSG-5 altogether. The GSG-5 is a novelty item. It's a fun little plinker, but not much more than that. It should be cheap and easily produced in mass quantities. We've seen this time and time again in the firearms industry: a firm comes out with a hot new product-- a product that won't be available for months and months. People lose interest and spend their money elsewhere. In this economy, I can't blame them.

Just wanted to let you guys know what's going on. We're done doing business with ATI/Amchar. A lot of other dealers feel the same way. Take care and as always-- stay On Point and God Bless.
-- Evan

After reading this and the ATI's response all I can think of is

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/858/shipmentoffailyh9.jpg

[crazymoose]

The VT shooter had a P22


He must have gotten the one made that actually works.

[BKLYNIRISH]

Thought of buying one myself...still thinking about it. We shall see.

[Razoreye]

Never was interested. Interesting on both posts but since I don't care... :whistling:

[Fear Night]

If you are happy with the 10-22 thats great IMO, but I have never had a reliable magazine for one that held over 10 rounds.
I've had pretty good results with the Butler Creek 25 rounders (more than good enough for plinking). But yeah the stock 10 rounders are flawless.

[Guntec]

This reminds me of the Walther P22....which has also seen its share of crack slides. These things were made by German firms that used to do airsoft and blank shots. Even with 22LR force, they can crack the zinc alloy used in the guns. I wish they would use some real steel in these guns. There's a reason Ruger 10/22 are durable, it has real steel bolt.

[patman]

I've had my GSG-5 rifle to the range once and I like it so much I'm gonna buy the pistol version too.:tongueout:

[DriBak]

Saw a pistol version at the fun show a couple of weeks ago, it had a 10 round mag and the seller wanted 500 OTD NIB I wish it had been the rifle version

[Glock_Wenc_21]

Picked one up the 1st day it was available!

Still have yet to shoot it.

http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k474/wenc5454/gsg1.jpg

http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k474/wenc5454/gsg2.jpg

http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k474/wenc5454/gsg.jpg

[patman]

Are you restricted to 10 round mags in Il.?

[Glock_Wenc_21]

Are you restricted to 10 round mags in Il.?

Hey no we are not, although the GSG-5P come with a 10 round magazine.

[patman]

Does anybody know what kind of steel would be good for a bolt?Stainless maybe?My cousin has a couple of CNC machines.I might ask him how much it would cost to have him make a new bolt for my GSG.I suppose you need a manufacturing license to do that though huh?

[LoneRanger19]

My gunshop got a few GSG-5 in $500 for the rifle and $550 for the pistol. I'm debating with myself if I should get one or just get a 10/22 and trick it out.

One thing I'm curious about, if you get a GSG-5 and something goes wrong or breaks is there a warranty? I heard you have to ship it back to Germany, but that doesn't sound right.

[skud_dusty]

I suppose you need a manufacturing license to do that though huh?

Nope. As long as you aren't making a receiver or attempting to make FA parts you're golden.

[mike253]

If you want an MP5, get an MP5. It's like saying you want a Glock but will only pay $50. If it's a MP5, it better say "HK .. Made in Germany" somewhere on it..

Wow, that makes ALL sorts of sense. Why didn't everyone think of that!!???!!?

If you can't understand that a $500 rifle is more attainable to "the masses" than a $20,000 rifle, you should probably stop posting.

[mike253]

There's a reason Ruger 10/22 are durable, it has real steel bolt.

Have you handled a new 10/22 lately? They're ditching steel in favor of cheaper plastic (like everyone else). If the trend continues for another 3 or 4 years, the only steel in a 10/22 will be the barrel and maybe the bolt (if they can't make it out of aluminum).

5 years ago, a 10/22 was ~$160 and had a bunch of steel in it, now it's ~$190 and has a whole lot less steel in it.

[NateIU10]

Nope. As long as you aren't making a receiver or attempting to make FA parts you're golden.

Actually, you can make a receiver as long as it's for yourself and will never go up for sale :wavey:

[AJ Dual]

Actually, you can make a receiver as long as it's for yourself and will never go up for sale :wavey:

Actually, you can sell it, but you can't be "engaged in the business". Meaning, you make your own firearm reciever, build a functioning firearm out of it, use/have it for a few years, get tired of it, then sell it to a non-felon 18 y.o.+ resident of the same state in accordance with your state law, you're legal.

It must have a serial number on the reciever, with the name of the maker, and the city and state on it though.

So if I "made" an AK reciever, and assembled a complete rifle from it, and, marked it:

A.J. Dual
#1
Milwaukee, WI

Then after an indeterminate period of time, sold it to my father who also lives in Wisconsin, because he liked it, I didn't want/use it anymore, that would be okay.

[TylerDurden]

Actually, you can sell it, but you can't be "engaged in the business". Meaning, you make your own firearm reciever, build a functioning firearm out of it, use/have it for a few years, get tired of it, then sell it to a non-felon 18 y.o.+ resident of the same state in accordance with your state law, you're legal.

It must have a serial number on the reciever, with the name of the maker, and the city and state on it though.

So if I "made" an AK reciever, and assembled a complete rifle from it, and, marked it:

A.J. Dual
#1
Milwaukee, WI

Then after an indeterminate period of time, sold it to my father who also lives in Wisconsin, because he liked it, I didn't want/use it anymore, that would be okay.

QFT...

[mike253]

Actually, you can make a receiver as long as it's for yourself and will never go up for sale :wavey:

And you pay the $200 tax and fill out the form 1 and have it approved before you begin construction.

[TylerDurden]

And you pay the $200 tax and fill out the form 1 and have it approved before you begin construction.

Wrong. See AJ's post above.

[mike253]

Wrong. See AJ's post above.

Err, I posted thinking of a manufacturer for NFA stuff (that's where my mind has been for the last couple of weeks).. AJ is correct, as long as you are building for personal use and it isn't an NFA item, you're good to go.

[patman]

My gunshop got a few GSG-5 in $500 for the rifle and $550 for the pistol. I'm debating with myself if I should get one or just get a 10/22 and trick it out.

One thing I'm curious about, if you get a GSG-5 and something goes wrong or breaks is there a warranty? I heard you have to ship it back to Germany, but that doesn't sound right.

I already have a nice 10/22.I built it a couple of years ago.I probably should have ordered some 25 round Hot Lips mags and an Evolution stock for that instead of buying the GSG-5.But if we all refused to buy a car/truck because one just like it had broken at some point in time we'd all be walking.

[patman]

Well I went ahead and ordered a couple of Steel Lips 25 rounders for my 10/22 just in case the GSG goes down.Nice to have even if it doesn't.Now maybe a bi-pod...

[Faulkner]

Another satisfied GSG owner. No problems with mine and I have not had the 10/22 out of the vault since the GSG came home.