7mm Rem. Mag vs. .300 Win. Mag.

[DFin]

What are the practical pros & cons of one cartridge over the other?

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

The .300 will kick the snot outta ya--while the 7mm isn't that bad to shoot.

[Guyver]

The .300 will kick the snot outta ya--while the 7mm isn't that bad to shoot.

Yea, the 7mm is considered the baby mag out of the Magnum rifle callibers...

That said, the 7mm will take a deer, and is flatter shooting.

[Jettubby]

The 7mm mag in the 90's was the big brother of the new .270 which was touted as a flatter shooter than the 30-06. That's when I got my Browning A-Bolt II. Still have it and love it. Great deer rifle. I remember reading some Federal ballistic test that showed the 7mm mag had more energy at 300yrd and more muzzle velocity than the 30-06 out of the barrel. Smokin'!

[JNKIRK1974]

From personal experience, I can tell you that the 7mm is a terrific gun. It won't beat you up at all and has plenty of take down capability.

[hagar]

The 7mm has superior ballistics in every way to the 300, as well as better sectional density, and less recoil. Shoot a 162 Amax out of the 7mm, and it will be going faster at 1000 yards than the best 300 loads at 600.

[fredj338]

The 7mm has superior ballistics in every way to the 300, as well as better sectional density, and less recoil. Shoot a 162 Amax out of the 7mm, and it will be going faster at 1000 yards than the best 300 loads at 600.

Really, & what are you comparing that to, 7mm handload & factory 300? The 300mags will hit harder at all ranges & have an slight advantage for heavoer game w/ heavier bullets at ALL ranges. I am a 7mag fan, but superior, hardly, easier to shoot over longer strings, definetly.

[rogerbb]

The 300 will shoot a heavier bullet, less effected by crosswinds down range.

The Army team at Benning use the 300 mag for just such a reason.

[moeman]

Well, I drank the kool-aid in the 90's when the 7mm was "the" hot round...bottom line I wish I bought a 30-06 when I learned more about hunting, shooting and loading. I should have listened more to old timers and less to gun mags.

The Winchester round can be a lot more powerful. That being said I can't think of any reason to own one in the lower 48 states when a 30-06 round has such a wide range of factory loadings and can be be reloaded very hot.

Remington's site has a good ballistic comparison tool check it out... http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/

30-06 ranges from 125 to 220gr bullets and 20 different offerings from 1964 to 2967 ftlbs of energy.

300 Win. Mag ranges from 150 to 200gr bullets and 9 different offerings from 2339 to 3605 ft lbs of energy

7mm Rem Mag ranges from 140 to 175gr bullets and 11 different offerings from2283 to 3221 ft lbs of energy

So you can see just how versatile each round is... There are many more options in 30-06 than either magnum round and 2967 ft lbs of energy is pretty damn robust. If you can shoot more than 50 rounds of any of these hot ammo's in a day and say the last "x" number of rounds was fun then your shoulder must be made of steel.

[SDDL-UP]

Both are great rounds, but the 7mm is better ballistically at long ranges. The 168 and 180gr. Bergers are great! For hunting bears or moose the 300 might be a little better, at normal hunting distances anyway. For longer distances the 7mm is just better. Both will get the job done.

[TheStreetKing]

The 7mm has superior ballistics in every way to the 300, as well as better sectional density, and less recoil. Shoot a 162 Amax out of the 7mm, and it will be going faster at 1000 yards than the best 300 loads at 600.
I'd like to see the Velocity of the Loads you are talking about. I shoot my 300 Win Mag out to 600 Yards on a Very Consistent Basis and the 7MM offers nothing over the 300 Besides Sectional Density which doesn't mean to much since either round will Clearly punch through a Moose. It's pretty hard to Beat a 220 Grain Sierra Matchking going 2870 FPS.

[MTMilitiaman]

The 300 will shoot a heavier bullet, less effected by crosswinds down range.

The Army team at Benning use the 300 mag for just such a reason.

Maybe that is the same reason the Secret Service Presidential Protection Detail uses custom Remington Model 700s in 7mm Rem Mag?

Or at least they used to according to the information stated in the latest version of Sierra's load manual.

The 7mm has a better selection of extremely efficient, "Very Low Drag" projectiles with BCs that blow away anything offered in .308 caliber.

For example:

Sierra 168 gr Matchkings:
.308 caliber = .462
.284 caliber = .488

175 gr Matchkings:
.308 caliber = .505
.284 caliber = .608

Now for Berger...

168 gr VLDs:
.308 cal = .512
.284 cal = .643

180 gr VLDs:
.308 cal = .574
.284 cal = .684

Lapua makes a 185 gr .308 caliber D46 with with a BC of .547 and a 185 gr Lock Base FMJBT in the same caliber with a BC of .525, but doesn't have any match offerings in 7mm.

For heavier weight bullets in .308 caliber, you got 190 to 240 gr Matchkings from Sierra and 190 and 210 gr VLDs from Berger.

Of these, the only one that exceeds the published BC of the .284 caliber 180 gr Berger VLD is the 240 gr Matchking, which requires a 1:8 twist barrel.

The .300 Winchester will push a 180 to 190 gr bullet in the area of 3000 to 3100 fps from a 26 inch barrel. The 7mm Rem Mag can push a 180 gr bullet 2800 to 3000 fps from the same length barrel. So while the .300 Winchester has an advantage of up to 300 fps at the muzzle, the 7mm's projectiles are more aerodynamically efficient. They reduce drag better. They over take the .300 Winchester is average velocity downrange, and hereafter will have shorter "Time Of Flight" figures.

Less time in the air means less time to be affected by gravity and wind, which means less drop, and less drift due to wind deflection.

On game, the .300 Winchester will have more energy at most ranges, and will usually have more mass, which could potentially mean greater momentum as well. However, the 7mm Rem Mag with 160 to 175 gr bullets makes an excellent combination. The 175 gr 7mm load has an impressive SD that most .30 caliber loads just can't hang with. With an SD of .310, this load isn't matched in .30 caliber until you get to 210 gr. Not many 210 gr hunting loads exist, which would leave the 220 gr bullets with SDs of .331. However, most 220 gr .308 caliber bullets are round noses or semi-spitzers. Having an excellent SD with the very decent .519 BC of the 175 gr Nosler Partition, for example, and the respectable 2900 to 3000 fps this load can be pushed makes for a very effective combination. No game animal on earth would notice the difference. If you can't kill it effeciently with such a load, a 200 or 220 gr Partition from a .300 Winchester isn't going to cut it. In order to get an appreciable advantage over the 7mm Rem Mag against large, heavy game, you need a bigger increase in frontal area and mass than the .308 bore diameter can give you. Simply increasing the velocity and energy of those same 180 to 220 gr .30 caliber bullets with progressively larger cases probably isn't going to cut it. You need a .338 caliber or larger magnum shooting those large 250 + gr slugs.

And both the .30 caliber and .338 or larger caliber magnums are going to noticeably more than the 7mm Rem Mag from the same length rifle. The 7mm gains its effectiveness from the efficiency of its projectiles. It only produces 100 to 200 fps more velocity than the .30-06 from the same length barrel. That's not much. And you can tell in the recoil. The 7mm may feel a little sharper than the 06 from the same weight rifle, but if you can handle the 06, chances are you can still handle the 7mm Rem Mag. The .300 Win on the other hand takes a more direct approach to effectiveness by simply increasing capacity and pushing the bullet at a faster initial velocity--an additional 200 fps in many cases over the 06. In similar weight rifles, most don't find it as comfortable to shoot as either the .30-06 or the 7mm Rem Mag. So while I can and have shot 30 or so full power 160 gr handloads from my sporter weight 7mm Rem Mag, I've never cared to shoot much more than 10 or so 180 gr handloads from a .300 Win Mag sporter. Of course, this becomes less of an issue through heavy barreled rifles designed for long range typically weighing 14 or more pounds, as either would be tolerable then.

So short answer, I feel the 7mm Rem Mag is still an overall better cartridge than the .300 Win. The only place the .300 Win bests the 7mm Rem Mag is close to the muzzle. This advantage diminishes the farther downrange you get due to the 7mm's superior combinations of BC and velocity with most loads.

My brother used to hunt with a .300 Win. He's looking to build a 7mm now because anything the .300 can do, the 7mm can do with less recoil. In order to do appreciably more than the 7mm, either hunting or for long range work, you need a .338 caliber magnum such as the Remington Ultra Mag or Lapua Mag. That is my two-cents, and I am sticking to it...

[chowchow]

Do these barrels wear out faster bec of the higher FPS?

[orlando_5]

Do these barrels wear out faster bec of the higher FPS?

yeah it does.

[TheGrimReaper]

I prefer the .300, due to more bullet selection as far as weights go. Able to tweek it for a variety of roles.

[Usingmyrights]

30-06 ranges from 125 to 220gr bullets and 20 different offerings from 1964 to 2967 ftlbs of energy.




Actually there's one that 55gr and tops 4000fps. The accelerator.

[fredj338]

The 7mm has a better selection of extremely efficient, "Very Low Drag" projectiles with BCs that blow away anything offered in .308 caliber.
So short answer, I feel the 7mm Rem Mag is still an overall better cartridge than the .300 Win. The only place the .300 Win bests the 7mm Rem Mag is close to the muzzle. This advantage diminishes the farther downrange you get due to the 7mm's superior combinations of BC and velocity with most loads.

Except you kind of cherry picked your bullets. A 168gr 7mm is = to a 180gr .308. Lets see how "supperior" the 7rm is:
7mm/180gr VLD @ 2900fps = -143.8" @ 800yds, -42" in a 10mph cross wind.
308/190gr VLD @ 3000fps = -141.6" @ 800yds, -49.5" in a 10mph cross wind.
Both have about the same energy @ 1671ft# v 1644ft#. Realistically, no diff. & you could probably squeeze another 100fps out of the 300wm, the 7rm is running @ max. to get 2900fps. SO superior, ah, no. The only thing the 7rm really offers is less recoil.:dunno:

[Big Bird]

Nobody shoots the magnums at 1,000 yards much anymore as there are better choices that beat you and your rifle up less. Yeah, some folks will use them but lets face it--either you can dope wind and know your come ups or you don't. And the cumulative affect of recoil is demonstrable. So arguing which is better at 1,000 yards is of no practical value.

In terms of hunting they are both effective and respected rounds. However, in deer weight bullets 140-150 grains or so the 7mm is relatively ineffecient and if you look at the ballistics of a 130 grain 270 Winchester or a 280 Remington you will see there is almost no practical difference in trajectory, velocity, or energy.
When I say practical I mean a difference that translates to useable advantage in the game fields. The 300 Win mag likewise provides little useable advantage on DEER and other medium game. Can you effective hunt deer with either a 7mm Remmy or 300 Winny? Absolutely. But to quote the venerable Col Cooper: If a 30-06 (or a 270 Winchester) won't fetch your deer for you, its highly unlikely a belted magnum will do so either.

Now when we change the game to elk and bigger animals they both come into their own. But the 300 wins simply because bullet weight and frontal area matter when it comes to punching holes with 400-900 lb critters. The 7mm Rem Mag is probably at its best with 160-176 grain game bullets (forget Berger VLDs--they are a paper target bullet). The 300 Winny, however, wins because of the very useful bullet loadings in 180-200 grain weights which provide capabilities that the .284 bore does not.

Although I own both I prefer the 300 Win Mag over the 7mm Rem Mag for elk but truth be told my go to elk gun is a .338 Win Mag with 210 grain Nosler partitions and my back up elk gun is a .300 WSM with 180 grain Hornady's at 2960 FPS...

Of course, unless you reload the cost of factory belted magnum ammunition is surpassing $2 a shot and you will never amount to much of a shot with either a 7mm Mag or a 300 Win Mag unless you can practice a lot and spend several hundred rounds dialing in your rifle for long range (beyond 300 yards) shooting. So as a practical matter any discussion about the superiority of one over the other is mostly an academic exercise.

For deer...don't use em. No need and they don't buy you any practical advantage over a standard cartidge.

For long range shooting have a rifle chambered in 6.5X284 and shoot with the rest of em...

[falsememory]

I shoot a 300 for elk. I dont know why. my father shoots a 300 my FIL shoots a 300 and now I shoot a 300.I have zero experience with the 7mm but wanted to post. :)

[water_daddy]

For a typical shoulder rifle used in a hunting application I may consider the 7mm, but it won't be the mag then. When you start dealing with long range/sniper set ups the cal is a no brainer...recoil vs. performance and payload give the 300 the advantage when using heavy loads. Flight time is not the only factor with wind deflection. Ever shoot 17s in the mid-west? The 7-08 is my favorite 7mm round. Beyond that the efficency, longevity and often accuracy starts to rapidly decline. Case in point the 7 STW, what a dog.

P.S. Who cares what the .gov chooses, I can point out so many cases of incompetents, bureaucracy and corruption. Do you really think a fat cat manager often promoted for all the wrong reasons, is a better decision maker than the folks here?

[sigcalcatrant]

Yea, the 7mm is considered the baby mag out of the Magnum rifle callibers...

That said, the 7mm will take a deer, and is flatter shooting.The 7mm is FAR more tan a deer rifle. The 7mm will take any animal in the U.S.

[4949shooter]

With all factors regarding both cartridges being considered, there are reasons the 7mm Remington Magnum is as immensely popular as it is.

Availability, recoil characteristics, and high performance make it so used and well liked here in the good 'ole USA.

[water_daddy]

The 7 mag popularity is waning my friend. This round was introduced in 1962 when I'm not sure anything beyond the mild 7X57 was very common here. Compare the popularity with competition shooters for the true story.

[4949shooter]

Are you sure about that?

So why are Winchester and Remington copying it's performance with their short magnum rounds?

I'll concede for the target shooting realm....but not overall popularity.

[MTMilitiaman]

Except you kind of cherry picked your bullets.

Really? I mentioned most of the weights available for both calibers from the three largest manufactures of commercially available, non-custom projectiles that I am aware of; Sierra, Berger, and Lapua. Rather, you just cherry picked your quote. Note, I already said:

For heavier weight bullets in .308 caliber, you got 190 to 240 gr Matchkings from Sierra and 190 and 210 gr VLDs from Berger.

Of these, the only one that exceeds the published BC of the .284 caliber 180 gr Berger VLD is the 240 gr Matchking, which requires a 1:8 twist barrel.

The .300 Winchester will push a 180 to 190 gr bullet in the area of 3000 to 3100 fps from a 26 inch barrel. The 7mm Rem Mag can push a 180 gr bullet 2800 to 3000 fps from the same length barrel. So while the .300 Winchester has an advantage of up to 300 fps at the muzzle, the 7mm's projectiles are more aerodynamically efficient. They reduce drag better. They over take the .300 Winchester is average velocity downrange, and hereafter will have shorter "Time Of Flight" figures.

Then you post exact numbers that I have studied but don't have access now due to being away from a computer with Quickload, and my load manuals, and claim I am cherry picking? Whatever...

7mm/180gr VLD @ 2900fps = -143.8" @ 800yds, -42" in a 10mph cross wind.
308/190gr VLD @ 3000fps = -141.6" @ 800yds, -49.5" in a 10mph cross wind.
Both have about the same energy @ 1671ft# v 1644ft#. Realistically, no diff. & you could probably squeeze another 100fps out of the 300wm, the 7rm is running @ max. to get 2900fps. SO superior, ah, no. The only thing the 7rm really offers is less recoil.

Note how even though the .300 has the heavier projectile and higher initial velocity, by the time they get to 800 yards, the 7mm has already gained enough advantage in velocity to make up for its slight lack of mass and equaled or surpassed the initial energy advantage of the .300--and we aren't even out of .308 Winchester territory yet.

Since you have access to the appropriate software, post back the numbers for the same loads at 1000 and 1200 yards. That is where the advantages of the magnums comes into play. The .308 Winchester does fine from 800 to 1000 yards. Putting higher BC bullets out at higher velocities is where it is at for the magnums.

Nobody shoots the magnums at 1,000 yards much anymore as there are better choices that beat you and your rifle up less. Yeah, some folks will use them but lets face it--either you can dope wind and know your come ups or you don't. And the cumulative affect of recoil is demonstrable. So arguing which is better at 1,000 yards is of no practical value.

I disagree. Everyone in my family enjoys shooting 1000 + yards with their magnum hunting rifles and an AR-50 my brother bought with his sign on bonus.

Target shooters use 6.5mm cartridges for much the same reasons I have described for the 7mm--bullets have extremely high BCs. The 7 Mag does the same thing but adds a little to the initial velocity.

The only sliver of truth in your statement was that there are better options available than either the 7mm or the .300, but they are all magnum level cartridges as well--everything from the .338 RUM, Edge, and Lapua Magnums to the .408 Chey Tac and .416 Barrett.

(forget Berger VLDs--they are a paper target bullet).

This is directly contrary to Berger. I've seen and heard of people using them with excellent results, but have no personal experience.

Flight time is not the only factor with wind deflection.

It's the only factor the user has any control over. The only other factor is the wind itself.

.17s drift because the projectile's relatively poor BC quickly sheds velocity, increasing TOF and, consequently, drift.

A bullet's deflection in wind is directly proportional to the amount of time it is exposed to that force, same as drop is directly proportional to time exposed to the force of gravity.

The only difference is that gravity is a known constant whereas wind must be estimated and changes.

[4949shooter]

You can see that at 500 yards, the 150 grain Win Mag and the 7mm mag have identical trajectories.

The 7 mag will also have less wind drift and more down range energy at that distance.

The 300 Win will shoot slightly flatter at 300 yards.

The 7 mm mag will have slightly more velocity at 500 yards.

http://www.fusionammo.com/ballistics/rifle_compare.aspx

All in all, the ballistics are pretty close with the 150 grain loading. And for a rifle caliber that recoils less and is easier to shoot, it makes for a popular choice.

EDIT: Just select the 150 grain 300 Win and 7mm mag loads in order to access the ballistic charts.

Thanks, 4949.

[water_daddy]

The 7 mag sales are down in here and I suspect most everywhere. The short mag is not the 7 mag. Yes the short mag is more efficient and will haver greater longevity and perhaps accuracy. Even so, in my opinion the 7-08 is optimum 7mm to have. I'm simply saying the 7 mag will only become less popular, there are better rounds and it has never been able to clinche the competition shooters because there are better cartridges for extreme shooting. Not a bad cartridge by any means, but if you are serious shooter I'd go with a longer lasting, more efficient, more accurate, greater environmental negotiating round with more bullet options, and adaptions to application.

[fredj338]

I said "cherry picked" MT, because you are comparing like bullet wts to show the 7mm has better BC than the 308. My point being w/ like BCs, they are so close as to not be compared out to 800yds. Superior, hardly.
7rm -192/-54 @ 900, -250/-69 @ 1000
300wm -207/68 @ 900, -270/-86 @ 1000
If you acan only make 2800fps w/ a 180grVLD in the 7rm:
-223/-71 @ 900, -292/-91 @ 1000, ouch, now you are losing ground. Just trying to keep it honest. Both are good rounds for long range hunting or paper, but the 7mag is not superior.:supergrin:

[water_daddy]

We can go round and round with stats and opinion. The results should be obvious. When I shot competition I wanted to win like everyone else. Take note, these competitions were in the free and educated world, all cailbers had equal chance. We didn't even care about economics, logistics, platform lifetime....we simply wanted to win. I would have been the first to shoot the 7 Mag if it was the best long range cartridge. It's glory days are leaving (as are others), but I welcome better products.

[69HEMI-R/T]

Go to any gun store that carries used rifles and what is the most popular on the rack? A 7mm magnum. That is true around here (Texas) and has been for many years! For deer-sized game here there is no need for a 7mm mag or any magnum caliber and too many people buy into the old hype and find it is more gun than they need or can stand as the recoil is significant for most people.

A lot of people talk a 300yd.+ shot but very few can do it and make it count. I'll take my .308win. every time over the 7mm mag and will occasionally shoot my .270win, just because I like the rifle (Ruger No.1 ) .

If I need more punch, my .338winmag is available but that ain't gonna happen on deer-sized game.

The 7mm mag rifles are a dime-a-dozen here on the used gun racks and will languish there forever if they are waiting on me! Quote all the ballistics you want to me, I know what most hunters can and cannot do with a rifle and any magnum gives them absolutely no advantage! More likely, a false sense of ability!

[4949shooter]

The 7mm mag rifles are a dime-a-dozen here on the used gun racks and will languish there forever if they are waiting on me! Quote all the ballistics you want to me, I know what most hunters can and cannot do with a rifle and any magnum gives them absolutely no advantage! More likely, a false sense of ability!

Good point. MOST hunters cannot fully take advantage of the abilities of the 7mm magnum. For that matter, throw the 300 Win mag in there as well.

If what you are saying about the 7mm mag rifles accumulating on dealers' shelves is true, I suspect the new rave of short magnums (similar performance) is taking over. Most people like to go out and get the newest innovation, regardless of whether or not there is a true improvement in performance.

The 7mm mag still remains a popular round, however. At least for the time being. We will see what the future holds. Don't forget there are still a large variety of 7 mag ammo/bullet/weight combinations out there.

The mere fact we are having this debate is a testament to the establishment and popularity of both rounds.

[moeman]

Actually there's one that 55gr and tops 4000fps. The accelerator.

I bet your right I only was listing remington factory rounds mostly due to the fact that they are easy to find and thier web site is an excellent place for info... You gave another good reason to go w/ 30-06...I guess in this case for varmeting?

[TheStreetKing]

Maybe that is the same reason the Secret Service Presidential Protection Detail uses custom Remington Model 700s in 7mm Rem Mag?
to it... Actually the Secret Service use the 300 Winchester Mag.

[MTMilitiaman]

Actually the Secret Service use the 300 Winchester Mag.

Not that it is really relevent to my overall discussion, but since when and from what source?

[TScottW99]

I shoot a 7mm but not a mag. The .280Remington. Excellent round and will do everything I need it to do out to 300 yards (as far as I'm going to shoot at game) Not too far behind the 7mm mag with 140 grain pills. Shoots 139 grain Hornady SSTs and the 160 grain Nosler Accubonds at .50 MOA in a Ruger MK II sporter. I'm happy.

[Usingmyrights]

The 7mm is FAR more tan a deer rifle. The 7mm will take any animal in the U.S.

270 and 30-06 will do the same if you know how to shoot.

[Usingmyrights]

I bet your right I only was listing remington factory rounds mostly due to the fact that they are easy to find and thier web site is an excellent place for info... You gave another good reason to go w/ 30-06...I guess in this case for varmeting?

It is a factory round. As of last year it could still be ordered as well. I doubt they stopped making it since then. Looks like it was renamed the "express".
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R30069

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

I've been through darn near every cartridge out there---I'm back to a .270 Win--it will do anything you'll need to do--without kicking the crap out of you---at a reasonable cost.

Unless you're hunting grizzlies or going to Africa----there is little to no need for any magnum cartridge.

[fredj338]

I shoot a 7mm but not a mag. The .280Remington. Excellent round and will do everything I need it to do out to 300 yards (as far as I'm going to shoot at game) Not too far behind the 7mm mag with 140 grain pills. Shoots 139 grain Hornady SSTs and the 160 grain Nosler Accubonds at .50 MOA in a Ruger MK II sporter. I'm happy.
I have a 7mmDakota & a 280. I like them both, both are sub MOA rifles. The 280 is a great, overlooked caliber for most of NA hunting. Mine throws 140gr bullets @ 3000fps & 160gr to 2850fps, not that far behind the vaunted 7mmRM. The 280-is my fav. antelope/deer rifle & has been pressed for elk during combo season hunts.

[Brass Nazi]

I've been through darn near every cartridge out there---I'm back to a .270 Win--it will do anything you'll need to do--without kicking the crap out of you---at a reasonable cost.

Unless you're hunting grizzlies or going to Africa----there is little to no need for any magnum cartridge.

Truer words have never been spoken.


If you truly need something larger than a .270 or 30-06 the .338 magnums are the most logical choice.

[Brass Nazi]

I have a 7mmDakota & a 280. I like them both, both are sub MOA rifles. The 280 is a great, overlooked caliber for most of NA hunting. Mine throws 140gr bullets @ 3000fps & 160gr to 2850fps, not that far behind the vaunted 7mmRM. The 280-is my fav. antelope/deer rifle & has been pressed for elk during combo season hunts.

I have never shot a .280 but it bridges the gap between my two favorites the .270 and the 30-06 so it must be good.

[chowchow]

Both are excellent choices. Its the shooter who will make the difference whether to put the bullet where it needs to be , or lose a game.

[TScottW99]

Criag Boddington on the .280Remington

.....can't for the life of me figure out why it isn't more popular than it is. Arguably, it's a better cartridge than either the .270 Winchester or .30-06, combining the flat trajectory of the former with the heavier bullets of the latter--all aided by the inherent advantages of .284 bullets.

I reckon it a better cartridge than the much more popular 7mm Remington Magnum. Factory loads are almost as fast, with 140-grain loads from 2,990 to 3,110 fps and 160-grain loads at 2,890 fps. With handloads, it will give the 7mm Remington Magnum a run for its money, and it'll burn less powder and eat up a lot less space in the magazine box.

-Craig Boddington-

:supergrin:

A good article titled.... Sensible Sevens

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/gun_columns/notes/0501/index.html

[trick pony]

Based on new ammo sales and reloading die sales the 7mag is more popular than the .300. In fact, its more popular than all the 300s combined...although the .300 win falls one place behind it on the popularity charts.

Ive found most info in this thread useless. You do not compare bullets of diff. caliber based on weight. You compare them based on SD and BC. There is nothing you can do with a .300 mag (any of them) that you cannot do with a 7 mag (any of them) and vice versa. This is spliting hairs to a rediculus degree. You can push a 175gr. .284 bullet just over 3000 fps out of the 7 rem mag with good handloads. Can you do that with a .300 mag and 200 grainers...Probaly not, but you can come damn close. The biggest factor is that the 7 mag kicks alot less with all respective bullet weights. If frontal diameter is your concern...your looking at the wrong rounds. Go the elmer keith route and shoot a campstove and 3000fps.

In summary, both the .300 mags and 7 mags are eminsley popular...and for good reason. The 7 mags more so. Buy what you want, but know the .300s kick alot harder, and will acomplish nothing the 7 will not. If you think either round is eminsly superior...you have done very little rifle shooting and are out of your element in this conversation.

And to battle the above quote by Boddington...whom i like very much
(I strenuisly doubt we have any finer big game cartridges in existance than the big 7s be they comercial or wildcat "Warren Page") We can go back and forth with quotes all day and they prove nothing. They are both world class cartridges and diserve respect as such.
And yes i have, reload, and shoot both.
:drunk:

[trick pony]

Truer words have never been spoken.


If you truly need something larger than a .270 or 30-06 the .338 magnums are the most logical choice.

The large tanked mags have their place. A 7 mag flys faster than the .270 and hits harder than the '06...with a very slight gain in recoil

[wanderinwalker]

The 7mm mag rifles are a dime-a-dozen here on the used gun racks and will languish there forever if they are waiting on me! Quote all the ballistics you want to me, I know what most hunters can and cannot do with a rifle and any magnum gives them absolutely no advantage! More likely, a false sense of ability!


I just had to quote that. It's one of the best, most accurate statements I've read in a while!

Actually, I'd have to argue that for many shooters the '06 offers too much of a good thing. Sorry, but I've seen one-too-many 1-box a year shooters throw lead everywhere but where they want it, regardless of caliber! But by the same token, I've seen shooters who were incredibly good at handling their 7mm and .300 mags.

As for the OP, the general concensus seems to be, for deer-sized game, the '06-class rounds are more than adequate. For larger game, pick your flavor or 7mm or .300.

And if you want to punch paper or ring steel at long-range, get yourself a 6.5mm (.260, 6.5 Creedmore, 6.5x.284). From everything the LR shooters tell me, it's almost like cheating! :tongueout:

[MTMilitiaman]

I said "cherry picked" MT, because you are comparing like bullet wts to show the 7mm has better BC than the 308. My point being w/ like BCs, they are so close as to not be compared out to 800yds. Superior, hardly.
7rm -192/-54 @ 900, -250/-69 @ 1000
300wm -207/68 @ 900, -270/-86 @ 1000
If you acan only make 2800fps w/ a 180grVLD in the 7rm:
-223/-71 @ 900, -292/-91 @ 1000, ouch, now you are losing ground. Just trying to keep it honest. Both are good rounds for long range hunting or paper, but the 7mag is not superior.:supergrin:

Except that most people use like bullet weights...

For the 7mm, the most popular big game loads are the 150 and 160 gr loads. For the .300 Win, most people stick with the 180 gr. Some step up to the 200 gr. But it just so happens that it is not all that difficult to find .284 caliber bullets with BCs superior to the 180 and 200 gr .308 caliber projectiles. This can be pushed at similar muzzle velocities--about 3000 fps for the 160 gr 7mm and a little over 3100 fps for the 150 gr 7mm--but with better BCs, they do edge out the .300 at longer ranges.

There may be bullets for the .308 that can beat the BCs of the best 7mm bullets for long range shooting, but even the .300 Winchester has a hard time pushing these at velocities that can be competitive with the 7mm Rem Mag.

For example, two Berger offerings in 7mm--the 168 gr VLD with a published BC of .643 and the 180 gr VLD with a published BC of .684. To be fair, the 180 gr is recommended with a 1:9 twist rate that will more than likely require a custom barrel. A 26 inch tube could get these bullets going 2900 and 2800+ fps, respectively. That's being conservative, as long as you handload.

Berger offers .308 caliber VLDs, but the best of them, the 210 gr offering, only manages a .631 BC. Even if you can get this bullet to 2900+ fps, it still can't compete with the 168 gr 7mm load, which starts out at a higher initial velocity and boasts a higher BC.

Heavier match bullets exist for the .308. You can find Sierra Matchkings in 220 and 240 grs. However, the 220 gr Matchking can't match (excuse the pun) the BC of the slightly lighter 210 gr VLD. The 240 gr has a published BC of .711 when it exits the muzzle, but it shares the same problem as the 180 gr .284 caliber VLD, but to a higher degree--it requires a 1:8 twist barrel to stabilize. Additionally, it isn't likely to have a muzzle velocity much over 2500 fps from a .300 Win. It was clearly intended for the larger capacity magnums like the .300 Remington Ultra Mag and the .30-378 Weatherby Magnum.

From standard twist barrels of the length found on most commercially available rifles, the 168 gr Berger VLD at 2900+ fps from the 7 Mag beats anything on the market available for the .300 Winchester. And if you want to go with custom barrels, the 180 gr VLD at 2800+ fps from a 7 Mag is still going to make anything you can stuff in the .300 Winchester work for it if it wants to compete at long range.

MY POINT BEING that it really isn't fair to compare bullets of like BCs because in order to find 7mm projectiles with BCs similar to the .308 caliber offerings of the same construction, you have to look to the 140 gr loads, which no informed user is going to mistake for a long range round. If you compare loads that are likely to be used for the intended purpose of long range target shooting and big game hunting, the 7mm is capable of smoking just about anything you can feed a .300 Win. Even among custom rifles with fast twist rifling shooting the heaviest, longest, highest BC projectiles on the market, the 7mm is capable of edging out the .300 Win, with less recoil to boot.

[vafish]

Maybe that is the same reason the Secret Service Presidential Protection Detail uses custom Remington Model 700s in 7mm Rem Mag?



I would bet you almost any amount of money that the Presidential Protective Detail does not use 7MM Magnums.

The Presidential Protective Detail is the guys walking right next to the president. When I worked around them (not an agent) they carried S+W .357 mag revolvers, Uzi's, and Remington 870's. Now days I believe that they carry Sig's in .357 Sig, P90's and I'm not sure if they carry shotguns anymore or not.

The guys with the sniper rifles are the Secret Service Uniform Division Counter Sniper Team. And I'm sure they use a variety of rifle calibers.


http://www.ustreas.gov/usss/kids_faq.shtml



I saw people on the roof of the White House. What do they do?

The people you saw on the roof of the White House are members of the Secret Service Countersniper Team, which is composed of specially trained Uniformed Division officers. Their mission is to prevent any long-range threat to a protectee. They are trained with specially built weapons and other sophisticated equipment.


I'll bet his rifle is not a 7MM Magnum, looks to be some sort of AR. Might be a a 7MM WSSM but I'd bet it's a .308:

http://cryptome.info/usss-hands/pict2.jpg

[REDDAWN]

Do these barrels wear out faster bec of the higher FPS? YES! And also your dumping/Burning at or about 70 grains of powder every time you pull the trigger. A GREAT Long range Hunting/Sniper gun. You want a range gun? Buy a 223 or 308.:wavey:

[byf43]

7mm Rem. Mag vs .300 Win Mag - - -

IF I was forced to pick, it'd be the .300.

IF given any other option, it'd be the .338 Federal.

Otherwise, .308 Win or .30-'06 Springfield.