77 grain MK 262 Mod 1 in Iraq [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Nemesis Lead
06-30-2008, 23:09
Interesting things happening in Iraq.....

With US forces using more 14.5 inch barrelled carbines, 5.56mm rounds are not moving as fast as they would in 20 inch barrelled rifles. As a result, there are some complaints about terminal ballistics as the military's 62 grain round won't fragment reliably at more than 200 meters (5.56mm rounds rely on high velocity fragmentation to inflict gruesome wounds).

The military solution--move to a heavier 77 grain round moving at 2650 fps. Some say this round is intentionally designed to fragment (although many would argue this).

But.....doesn't moving to slower/heavier bullets just exacerbate the lack of fragmentation problem? If we are going to use 14.5 inch barrelled carbines shouldn't we go back to 55 grain bullets that have the "fragmentation" properties of the 77 grain bullet? Many police departments went the opposit way of the military and use smaller rounds in their carbines.....

The old M1 carbine fired slightly heavier rounds than this at a slightly slower velocity in WW2/Korea and was not thought of highly as a man stopper. We seem to be repeating the same mistake with shorter barrels and heavier bullets.

Now I know many of you will argue for 7.62mm NATO (or .338 Lapua:upeyes:) for our nation's assault rifles but.....stick to the question.....with a 14.5 inch barreled carbine, would you rather use 77 grain bullets or 55 grain bullets? Why?

Jason607
06-30-2008, 23:50
The 77gr performs better. It hits harder, penetrates better, and the much longer bullet fragments better especially at lower velosities.

AK_Stick
07-01-2008, 00:40
I've seen first hand Mod 262 in Iraq, I carried it when I had an M-4 or M-16.


It works better. Normal 193, or 855, kills. Mod 262, kills better. Not to mention is more accurate than normal ball, being its a match grade round.

crazymoose
07-01-2008, 03:21
My understanding is that the fragmentation of the round is a product of its rapid destabilization once it enters flesh (the round's spin is enough to stabilize it in air but not in tissue). The 77gr round is longer (has more mass in front of its center of gravity) than the 55gr or 62gr, so it destabilizes more violently when it hits someone.

TED
07-01-2008, 03:43
If I understand correcty the 77gr projectiles for the 5.56 wrk better because being longer there is more stress on the projectile and it therfore fragments quite well, being of greater overall mass, those fragments penetrate deeper as well.

Often times, projectiles that are long for calber do quite well in terminal performance often much better than their paper ballistics would show. Provided that they tumble or yaw sufficietly soon.

For example the 6.5x55 Swedish round is well known for good performance, even on large moose. The 5.45x39mm Soviet round is unusually long for caliber and weight. So it is witht he 77gr 5.56x45mm NATO as well.

Another example, all other dimensions or mass being the same, a shorter object is stiffer r harder to break, and a longer one is easier. Try taking a short fat carrot and snaping it, then try taking a long skinny one. The long skinny carrot will break easier. If that long skinny carrot was tarveling fast enough and impacted something like that, it might even "fragmnt".

TED

cmasailor
07-01-2008, 03:53
I've seen first hand Mod 262 in Iraq, I carried it when I had an M-4 or M-16.


It works better. Normal 193, or 855, kills. Mod 262, kills better. Not to mention is more accurate than normal ball, being its a match grade round.

nuf said. :cheers:

Burncycle
07-01-2008, 05:14
What's the twist on a standard M4?

Shawn Dodson
07-01-2008, 08:04
Unfortunately Mk 262 does not penetrate light barrier materials (automotive windshields, sheetmetal, etc.) as well as M855, and it's consigned as a special purpose cartridge vs. general purpose cartridge.

NG VI
07-01-2008, 10:18
Standard M4 twist is 1/7

darkscribe
07-01-2008, 10:47
Unfortunately Mk 262 does not penetrate light barrier materials (automotive windshields, sheetmetal, etc.) as well as M855, and it's consigned as a special purpose cartridge vs. general purpose cartridge.


Maybe not in testing, but it worked well enough in the field last time I was in the sandbox.

Retseh
07-01-2008, 10:56
How does Mk 262 compare to a JHP or soft point such as Winchester Ranger in terms of terminal ballistics?

Shawn Dodson
07-01-2008, 13:07
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2008Intl/Roberts.pdf

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