HST vs. Gold Dot

[glock2740]

Gold Dots seem to shoot way more accurately out of my 40's,45 and 9. I have read lots of good things about the HST, but they don't shoot good out of ANY of my guns. Anyone else get similar results?

[D-GLOCK17]

I have not tried Federal HST yet. I too, hear lots of good things though. The Gold Dots are street proven. They could be your best bet. I would like to try them and the Winchester Ranger T's. They also seem to be awesome.

[NG VI]

HST is sweet. If you plan on shooting into or out of cars then Gold Dot will be better. Gold dot is still a great bullet.


Sorry I didn't even read your post

[carbofan21]

accuracy of the 180 grain HST in my .40's has been stellar; same with the gold dots from speer and the ones from doubletap

[azatrox]

no problems what so ever with HST's out of my G26....or the wife's G26 for that matter.

[OD GASTON]

Why not REM. Golden sabors?????:dunno:

[unit1069]

I'm not a good enough shot to know which one is more accurate, so in my 9mm I carry 124-grain HST and in the .357sig I carry Double Tap125-grain Gold Dot JHP.

When I decide to buy more ammo I might reverse the carry rounds, using the Gold Dots in the 9mm and the HST in the .357sig.

Federal HST and Gold Dot are both good rounds and I don't lose sleep worrying about which one is better because either one will work.

[douglasd]

Why not REM. Golden sabors?????:dunno:

I've tried them, tested them, and they just don't expand as well as some of the others. Gold Dots both penetrated and expanded better than any of the top brands, including GS.


From all the tests I did the only thing close to Gold Dots for consistent expansion and penetration were the Cor-Bon DPX...at least in 9mm and .40.

[roymail]

Doubletap Speer Gold Dots 124gr+P 9mm - first choice

Federal 9mm Tactical 124gr HST - 2nd choice

(wouldn't want to be shot with either one!) :wow:

[magiaaron]

Gold Dots seem to shoot way more accurately out of my 40's,45 and 9. I have read lots of good things about the HST, but they don't shoot good out of ANY of my guns. Anyone else get similar results?

By not "good" what do you mean? I can't imagine it's punching 18" holes at 3 yards or failing to cycle, is it? :whistling:

-magiaaron

[glock2740]

By not "good" what do you mean? I can't imagine it's punching 18" holes at 3 yards or failing to cycle, is it? :whistling:

-magiaaron

I get better groups from the GD's than I do from the HST's. Lots better. Not in just one gun, but from 3 different .40's, a .45, a 9mm and get great groups from GD's in my 10mm as well. I haven't tried HST's in 10mm yet. I don't think they make any. Neither round from any of the guns mentioned has ever failed. Just an accuracy difference. Quite a big one at that.

[DRT]

To the OP,

Here's some data comparing HST, Gold Dot, and Ranger T. Same weapons, same test conditions, same people doing the testing. In other words, it's probably a pretty good side-by-side comparison.

http://le.atk.com/pdf/SanAngeloWBW_Report.pdf

ATK is the parent company for both SPEER and Federal so I would not expect any bias between the two during their testing, particularly when done with firearms instructors/range masters present from multiple agencies.

What's the data tell you? Go with the one that meets your needs the best.

FWIW, 180gr HST groups exceptional well and has been 100% reliable in my G22 and G27.

[Ok Prdator]

I'm shooting HST's in 9,40,45acp and 45 gap and all my guns like them.. very accuarate.

[marcoh]

...Here's some data comparing HST, Gold Dot, and Ranger T...What's the data tell you?...

I'm not an expert, I'm not trying to be a smart-@$$, and I'm not trolling, but I noted some of the "retained weight" numbers exceeded 100%. I'm guessing this means the bullets started out heavier than advertised? If this is correct (and I'm open to correction), I'm also guessing this means some bullets may start out lighter than advertised? I these guesses are correct, what, if anything, can one conclude about published retained weight data? If not, please let me know what I'm missing. Thanks!

[patscrazy]

When shooting through a medium, like denim for instance, the bullet probably picked up some material, thus, increasing its overall weight. That would explain why it weighs more. Or what you said.

And to the OP. Use gold dots if they are more accurate for you. Hundreds of PD's across the country use them and like them just fine. Why, because they work well in soft and hard targets. HST's are great too, but not any better than a well placed gold dot.

[glock2740]

Well, I'll compare Gold Dot's and HST's in the morning, as well as some Ranger T's, in my new 19 and 30 that I got today. After shooting both today with FMJ's, I suspect the 19 is going to group well with anything it eats. The 30 is no slouch, but I'll wait and see how both guns like different ammo and post afterwards. I also have some hot Gold Dot Double Tap loads for both as well. My 20 eats all the DT loads like candy, especially the 180grain GD's. I suspect the 19 will thrive on the 124+P GD's. My M&P 9mm loves them.

[bobdat]

Gold Dots seem to shoot way more accurately out of my 40's,45 and 9. I have read lots of good things about the HST, but they don't shoot good out of ANY of my guns. Anyone else get similar results?
As a rather highly-skilled shooter, I pay particular attention to the relative accuracy of the ammo I shoot from various "known good" guns. Here's what my experience shows me:

In my various G23's & G27's over several years, Winchester Black Talon 180gr has provided the consistently tightest groups with Federal Hydra-Shok 180gr right close behind. Recently, Federal HST 180gr is very close but I just can't seem to group quite as well. Really, it's a very slight but still perceptible opening up of the group size by about 1" with HST's. But, I buy the HST's exclusively now because they have many more important advantages to me beyond just group size.

In my G21's & G30's, Federal HST 230gr +P is surprisingly accurate for me with about 3-4" groups at 25 yards, slow fire. Winchester SXT 230gr shoots just about the same for me. I like the extra zip of the HST +P's though, so that's all I buy.

All my Glocks function flawlessly with HST's except for one recent new G22 that failed to feed one round in mid-clip about 30 rounds from brand new. That Glock went away after it's out-of-the-box tryout. I don't believe in "break-in" periods or any other such excuse-making. Either a gun is 100% reliable or it's not. And, if it's not, I don't own it.

In summary, over the past 15 years, I found that any of the major brands and "standard" loads like Winchester, Federal, Remington, Speer, etc. shoot as well as one's personal skills allow for, assuming a "known good' gun is being used.

However, eventually, each of us will end up with a personal preference for a particular ammo brand/load. We will then actually shoot better with the one we prefer mostly because psychological factors outweigh ballistic differences between them.

My best advice to myself is to shoot first-quality major-brand standard load ammo through 100% reliable Glocks. With those factors addressed, I can go on to concentrate on maintaining or improving my personal shooting skills and having fun. :wavey:

[roymail]

As a rather highly-skilled shooter, I pay particular attention to the relative accuracy of the ammo I shoot from various "known good" guns. Here's what my experience shows me:

In my various G23's & G27's over several years, Winchester Black Talon 180gr has provided the consistently tightest groups with Federal Hydra-Shok 180gr right close behind. Recently, Federal HST 180gr is very close but I just can't seem to group quite as well. Really, it's a very slight but still perceptible opening up of the group size by about 1" with HST's. But, I buy the HST's exclusively now because they have many more important advantages to me beyond just group size.

In my G21's & G30's, Federal HST 230gr +P is surprisingly accurate for me with about 3-4" groups at 25 yards, slow fire. Winchester SXT 230gr shoots just about the same for me. I like the extra zip of the HST +P's though, so that's all I buy.

All my Glocks function flawlessly with HST's except for one recent new G22 that failed to feed one round in mid-clip about 30 rounds from brand new. That Glock went away after it's out-of-the-box tryout. I don't believe in "break-in" periods or any other such excuse-making. Either a gun is 100% reliable or it's not. And, if it's not, I don't own it.

In summary, over the past 15 years, I found that any of the major brands and "standard" loads like Winchester, Federal, Remington, Speer, etc. shoot as well as one's personal skills allow for, assuming a "known good' gun is being used.

However, eventually, each of us will end up with a personal preference for a particular ammo brand/load. We will then actually shoot better with the one we prefer mostly because psychological factors outweigh ballistic differences between them.

My best advice to myself is to shoot first-quality major-brand standard load ammo through 100% reliable Glocks. With those factors addressed, I can go on to concentrate on maintaining or improving my personal shooting skills and having fun. :wavey:

Good post and good advice.

I'll say again that Glocks are not made to be target pistols although they are generally pretty accurate. Since live targets don't stand still (if they're smart), the ability to shoot bullseyes on targets that do is not particularly important to me. The BG's won't care, either.

[J.P.]

I've tried them, tested them, and they just don't expand as well as some of the others. Gold Dots both penetrated and expanded better than any of the top brands, including GS.


From all the tests I did the only thing close to Gold Dots for consistent expansion and penetration were the Cor-Bon DPX...at least in 9mm and .40.

Gel testing?
Do you have a link to the results?
(just want to add it to me database ;) )

[SubSolar]

I load HST's in all my guns. They seem to expand a lot better than Gold Dots in all the results I've seen. I'm sure the HST's are accurate enough. You aren't shooting matchsticks at 25 yards with hollow points. The average shooting incident happens within 7 feet.

[GTownGlockMan]

So from what I've observed and read the HST is cheaper, expands larger, and has great penetration. My issue is with the glass barrier testing. Now the only instance where I can see myself shooting through glass is while in my squad car. I caught the end of one of those true life cop shows where an officer was doing a typical traffic stop and the occupants were mexican drug smugglers. When they came to a stop a gang member exited the vehicle with an AK and let loose a full mag. The officer in the driver seat took several to the chest and a couple to the head and lived! In that same situation if I were able to draw my sidearm I'd like to make sure the entire bullet gets to the BG without separating. Is this unrealistic to consider? Try and put yourself in the same situation as an officer.

For the record, I'm not one yet but Academy starts Sep 8th and God willing I'll be hired soon enough.

[Agent6-3/8]

No problem with HST here. In fact, the first 3 I fired out of my 1911 landed in a 3/4" group. I've had similar results with the 147g 9mm out of my G19.

[DRT]

HST (and Ranger T for that matter) works well enough for me through glass and it kicks ass everywhere else.

From ATK's testing after glass.

******************************************************

Auto Glass
Auto Glass is the toughest and most difficult of all barrier tests. ATK’s bonded Speer Gold Dot .40 & .45 both stayed together through Auto Glass. Federal HST and Winchester SXT both experienced core jacket separation in the .40 165 gr., however they stayed together in the .45 230 gr.

Bullet Cal. / Weight Penetration Expansion RetainedWeight
Speer Gold Dot 40 S&W180 gr. 15.25” .51” 87.33 %
Federal HST 40 S&W165 gr. 14.0” .48” 59.88 % **
Win. SXT 40 S&W165 gr. 12.25” .57 77.52 % **
Speer Gold Dot 45 ACP 230 gr. 15.5” .65” 98.39 %
Federal HST 45 ACP 230 gr. 15.5” .64” 90.65 %
Win. SXT 45 ACP 230 gr. 15.5” .60” 90.09 %
** Core jacket separation

[GlockWheeler]

The 180 grain HST shoots great in my G-23. From what I have seen the HST has a bit better expansion than the Gold Dot, but if your pistol shoots best with the GD, then there is really no reason to switch loads. The Gold Dot is a good bullet as well.

[rsilvers]

To the OP,

Here's some data comparing HST, Gold Dot, and Ranger T. Same weapons, same test conditions, same people doing the testing. In other words, it's probably a pretty good side-by-side comparison.

http://le.atk.com/pdf/SanAngeloWBW_Report.pdf

That report says SXT, not Ranger-T. They should use Winchester's best bullet.

[DRT]

They DID test "Ranger T". There are civilian and LEO versions of SXT....they tested the good stuff. Either way, the OP question was GD vs HST.

[novaDAK]

I prefer Gold Dots for the simple reason they are bonded bullets.

[rsilvers]

Yeah but if you look at the test, they only do better through glass but are significantly worse than HST in every other usage. I think the number-one reason to use Gold Dots is they are the easiest to buy.

[novaDAK]

Yeah but if you look at the test, they only do better through glass but are significantly worse than HST in every other usage. I think the number-one reason to use Gold Dots is they are the easiest to buy.

Another good reason. They are the only bonded bullet that is not 'restricted' to LE-only by the manufacturer. Not that its hard to get other stuff...

Plus I like to use real-world proven rounds...which is why I exclusively use Gold Dots with the exception of .38spl, where I still use the all-lead "FBI Load". I bought some gold dots in .38 but haven't gotten around to try some at the range before switching over to that.

[degoodman]

Shoot the ones that shoot better in your guns. Its as simple as that.

Gel results are useful, but only up to a point. Humans are not homogenous blocks of gel, and the parts we need to hit to win are wrapped up in a rib cage, some tougher than average connective tissue, and then the things you want to hit are like either a water balloon or an air-filled sponge, or a hotdog wrapped up in a bone.

Maybe the HST does open up a little more than the GD. But who cares, really? Really and truely, the marginal small percentage gains in expansion or weight retention or whatever are not going to suddenly render obsolete all previous bullet designs. As long as you're using one of the current-ish bullet designs, I kinda put my line in the sand at the Hydrashok or newer, you're fine. Bullets that have an engineered cavity, pre-serrated jacket, some mechanism of moderating expansion and keeping the core and jacket together more often than not, are going to do what they need to do. If its in a current catelog as an LE or defensive ammo offering, it's probably OK.

If it isn't, there was probably a reason for it to be dropped, and you might think about updating. Why did the black talon bullet go away? lots of people think it was the eevil name and the coated bullets, and that's not exactly true. The original BT had a horrible tendency to core-jacket separate, and within a very short amount of time of the press latching on to it as the worst thing ever, they came out with the SXT that replaced it, and corrected many of its problems in the process. and they were smart enough not to call it "Fang Faced Super Man Flattener II" too.

And remember too, the GD's or HST's or whatever other bullet you pick aren't the ones that help you win a fight. Its the thousands of cheap FMJ's you shoot in training and practice that allow you but whatever bullet you pick in the bolier room where they might do what they need to do. You change bullets when you're close to running out of your current defensive ammo stockpile. Until then, instead of buying a box of the good stuff, buy three boxes of FMJ's and go to the range dammit.

[DRT]

.....
Maybe the HST does open up a little more than the GD. But who cares, really? Really and truely, the marginal small percentage gains in expansion or weight retention .......

Bullet Cal. / Weight Penetration Expansion RetainedWeight
Speer Gold Dot 40 S&W180 gr. 13.00” .59’ 98.72 %
Federal HST 40 S&W165 gr. 13.50” .81” 100.12 %

Speer Gold Dot 45 ACP 230 gr. 13.25” .71” 99.96 %
Federal HST 45 ACP 230 gr. 13.25” .97” 99.35 %


Looks more than "a little more" to me. A .40 HST even out performed a Gold Dot in .45. Additionally, the expanded-profile of the HST would likely be much more efficient at 'cutting' tissue vs the melted-wax profile of the expanded Gold Dot.

As a side note, I think the reason that many people are so defensive about GD is that they resent that the premium stuff is limited to LEO only. This makes it a little harder to get since you can't buy it at Walmart. GD is not bad ammo, others are just better. If your into 'bondage' go for Federal Tactical.

[fortyofforty]

Even if, to play the Devil's Advocate, the two rounds you tested (Federal HST and Speer Gold Dot) shot equally accurately from out of a stable rest, the fact that you shoot one better than the other is the deal maker, in my opinion. Go with the Speer. Also, even if the difference is all in your head (again, playing the Devil's Advocate), the fact that you believe one to be more accurate than the other is enough reason to choose that round over the other. It might just give you the psychological edge you need to win a gunfight, for example, if you have extreme confidence that the bullet will go exactly where you place it when the shot breaks.

[Los Suenos]

1dft5

[Los Suenos]

Speer Gold Dot 40 S&W180 gr. 13.00” .59’ 98.72 %
Federal HST 40 S&W165 gr. 13.50” .81” 100.12 %



What's this supposed to prove? :dunno:

[DRT]

Speer Gold Dot 40 S&W180 gr. 13.00” .59’ 98.72 %
Federal HST 40 S&W165 gr. 13.50” .81” 100.12 %



What's this supposed to prove? :dunno:

I was just trying to point out that the differences between the two were not trivial as was previously implied by another individual. With essentially equal penetration, the HST is making a much bigger hole. The much larger expanded diameter .81" (HST) vs .59" (GD) represents about an 88% increase in wound area for the HST, where the area of a circle = (diameter/2)^2 x 3.14. When you couple that fact with the differences in the profiles of the expanded bullets (sharp edges vs smooth edges), the advantage clearly goes to HST.

[PAGunner]

HST, Ranger T, Gold Dot, all top bullets I'd have no issue carrying. I carry federal HST because they are the cheapest and from gel tests, the best, unless you want to shoot through a car windshield. If I was LEO, I'd probably opt for the Gold Dot since windshields are a likely medium you would shoot through, but I'm not, I'm a civilian and HST outperforms pretty much everything. Basically, its the best kept secret in SD handgun ammunition.

[Bullet Man]

You all are comparing apples and oranges, 180 against 165....

[NG VI]

You all are comparing apples and oranges, 180 against 165....

In caliber I don't think it's apples to oranges to compare different weights, more like comparing apples of slightly different sizes. If they were comparing 165 HST and 147 Gold Dot I could see that.

[DRT]

You all are comparing apples and oranges, 180 against 165....


Tom - Thanks for pointing that out cause the 180gr HST performs even better than the 165gr version. Had they compared the 180gr HST vs the 180 Gold Dot (or the 165gr Gold Dot), the HST advantage would have appeared even greater.

By the way, any comment how the .40 165gr HST out performed the .45 230gr Gold Dot?

More apples to apples....look how the .45 230gr HST simply outclassed the .45 230gr Gold Dot.

I'm sure the president of miragetechnologies/floridabullet wouldn't have a bias towards gold dot....right?

[hotpig]

I'm sure the president of miragetechnologies/floridabullet wouldn't have a bias towards gold dot....right?


He does also sale HST ammo. I sale the same but you will not find HST in any of my guns other than plinking. I prefer ammo with street credibility. HST has not been out for ten years yet. The first few years it was pretty much ignored both by LE and the general shooting world.

I'm confident that if the HST 40 and 45 ammo perform as well as the 9mm 147gr ammo has in the North West it will prove to be a good round.

[JBP55]

As a rather highly-skilled shooter, I pay particular attention to the relative accuracy of the ammo I shoot from various "known good" guns. Here's what my experience shows me:

In my various G23's & G27's over several years, Winchester Black Talon 180gr has provided the consistently tightest groups with Federal Hydra-Shok 180gr right close behind. Recently, Federal HST 180gr is very close but I just can't seem to group quite as well. Really, it's a very slight but still perceptible opening up of the group size by about 1" with HST's. But, I buy the HST's exclusively now because they have many more important advantages to me beyond just group size.

In my G21's & G30's, Federal HST 230gr +P is surprisingly accurate for me with about 3-4" groups at 25 yards, slow fire. Winchester SXT 230gr shoots just about the same for me. I like the extra zip of the HST +P's though, so that's all I buy.

All my Glocks function flawlessly with HST's except for one recent new G22 that failed to feed one round in mid-clip about 30 rounds from brand new. That Glock went away after it's out-of-the-box tryout. I don't believe in "break-in" periods or any other such excuse-making. Either a gun is 100% reliable or it's not. And, if it's not, I don't own it.

In summary, over the past 15 years, I found that any of the major brands and "standard" loads like Winchester, Federal, Remington, Speer, etc. shoot as well as one's personal skills allow for, assuming a "known good' gun is being used.

However, eventually, each of us will end up with a personal preference for a particular ammo brand/load. We will then actually shoot better with the one we prefer mostly because psychological factors outweigh ballistic differences between them.

My best advice to myself is to shoot first-quality major-brand standard load ammo through 100% reliable Glocks. With those factors addressed, I can go on to concentrate on maintaining or improving my personal shooting skills and having fun. :wavey:

Well said.

[NotSoFast]

So far, 147 gr Gold Dot has been the most accurate factory load out of my 9 mm G17.

[degoodman]

Bullet Cal. / Weight Penetration Expansion RetainedWeight
Speer Gold Dot 40 S&W180 gr. 13.00” .59’ 98.72 %
Federal HST 40 S&W165 gr. 13.50” .81” 100.12 %

Speer Gold Dot 45 ACP 230 gr. 13.25” .71” 99.96 %
Federal HST 45 ACP 230 gr. 13.25” .97” 99.35 %


Looks more than "a little more" to me. A .40 HST even out performed a Gold Dot in .45. Additionally, the expanded-profile of the HST would likely be much more efficient at 'cutting' tissue vs the melted-wax profile of the expanded Gold Dot.

As a side note, I think the reason that many people are so defensive about GD is that they resent that the premium stuff is limited to LEO only. This makes it a little harder to get since you can't buy it at Walmart. GD is not bad ammo, others are just better. If your into 'bondage' go for Federal Tactical.

Did you take a look at the rest of the tests by chance?

Expansion isn't everything. The Gold Dots out penetrate the HST through EVERY barrier material, not just windshield glass, but plywood, wallboard, and clothing as well.

And neither expansion nor penetration into a childs desert are completely predictive of on street performance. Yes, that type of testing is important, but mostly because it provides a repeatable sceintific basis for comparing ammunition, not beacuse it is perfectly predictive of how the rounds will do on the street. As long as the rounds expand properly, do not jacket-core seperate or fragment, and achieve the correct depths of penetration, their work is done.

Even with all this testing, these rounds can and do fail to perform on the street. All of them. And even when the bullets do perfrom precisely as designed, and are perfectly placed, the remarkable resiliance of the human body still keeps the BG in the fight long enough to kill or maim with frequency.

My point is that once you're over the bar into current manufacture controlled expansion ammunition, just pick one and you're fine. There is no "best" one, nor even a readily determinable hierarchy of offerings at that level. No matter what ammo is involved, I guarantee you that for every test that is published that shows brand F is better than brand S, I can find you one that says the exact opposite, and none of it really matters because noone has ever proven that energy, expansion, penetration, weight retention or any other measurable factor are the tailsman between rounds that perform and rounds that don't.

Spend alot more time focusing on things that you can control, like your tactics and your shooting performance, by practicing and training relentlessly, and the things that you can't control, like how big the particular bullet that you connect with a BG bent on causing you harm got to be or how deep it went, will take care of themselves.

[FURocious]

Did you take a look at the rest of the tests by chance?

Expansion isn't everything. The Gold Dots out penetrate the HST through EVERY barrier material, not just windshield glass, but plywood, wallboard, and clothing as well.

And neither expansion nor penetration into a childs desert are completely predictive of on street performance. Yes, that type of testing is important, but mostly because it provides a repeatable sceintific basis for comparing ammunition, not beacuse it is perfectly predictive of how the rounds will do on the street. As long as the rounds expand properly, do not jacket-core seperate or fragment, and achieve the correct depths of penetration, their work is done.

Even with all this testing, these rounds can and do fail to perform on the street. All of them. And even when the bullets do perfrom precisely as designed, and are perfectly placed, the remarkable resiliance of the human body still keeps the BG in the fight long enough to kill or maim with frequency.

My point is that once you're over the bar into current manufacture controlled expansion ammunition, just pick one and you're fine. There is no "best" one, nor even a readily determinable hierarchy of offerings at that level. No matter what ammo is involved, I guarantee you that for every test that is published that shows brand F is better than brand S, I can find you one that says the exact opposite, and none of it really matters because noone has ever proven that energy, expansion, penetration, weight retention or any other measurable factor are the tailsman between rounds that perform and rounds that don't.

Spend alot more time focusing on things that you can control, like your tactics and your shooting performance, by practicing and training relentlessly, and the things that you can't control, like how big the particular bullet that you connect with a BG bent on causing you harm got to be or how deep it went, will take care of themselves.


You have two very good posts on this matter. Nice to see, not just commen sense, but good sense.

[RUSH2112]

I honestly cannot imagine any top brand SD ammo not being more than accurate enough for self defense. Really, if you're targeting a BG center mass, are you really going to be aiming at a particular button on his shirt?

[JBP55]

Did you take a look at the rest of the tests by chance?

Expansion isn't everything. The Gold Dots out penetrate the HST through EVERY barrier material, not just windshield glass, but plywood, wallboard, and clothing as well.

And neither expansion nor penetration into a childs desert are completely predictive of on street performance. Yes, that type of testing is important, but mostly because it provides a repeatable sceintific basis for comparing ammunition, not beacuse it is perfectly predictive of how the rounds will do on the street. As long as the rounds expand properly, do not jacket-core seperate or fragment, and achieve the correct depths of penetration, their work is done.

Even with all this testing, these rounds can and do fail to perform on the street. All of them. And even when the bullets do perfrom precisely as designed, and are perfectly placed, the remarkable resiliance of the human body still keeps the BG in the fight long enough to kill or maim with frequency.

My point is that once you're over the bar into current manufacture controlled expansion ammunition, just pick one and you're fine. There is no "best" one, nor even a readily determinable hierarchy of offerings at that level. No matter what ammo is involved, I guarantee you that for every test that is published that shows brand F is better than brand S, I can find you one that says the exact opposite, and none of it really matters because noone has ever proven that energy, expansion, penetration, weight retention or any other measurable factor are the tailsman between rounds that perform and rounds that don't.

Spend alot more time focusing on things that you can control, like your tactics and your shooting performance, by practicing and training relentlessly, and the things that you can't control, like how big the particular bullet that you connect with a BG bent on causing you harm got to be or how deep it went, will take care of themselves.

They should penetrate better, tested 180 GD and 165 HST and 165 SXT.

[cole]

So far, 147 gr Gold Dot has been the most accurate factory load out of my 9 mm G17.

Agreed. I use the 147gr GD in my G19s.

Took a long look at the 147gr HST. Nice expansion. Seems overall <.1" greater (average: 0.7" HST vs 0.6+" GD) than the GD. However, in 9mm I'm more concerned about penetration so have decided to stay with the GD due to slightly less (average) expansion (<0.1") and slightly more (average) penetration (.25"-.5").

Plus, and this is more a main reason, GD works fine and I don't want to have to function test a new load.

[DRT]

Here's one for the "street cred" crowd. Just one incident but it begins to confirm what all the ballistics tests have been demonstrating for a while.

http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15926

[carbofan21]

good stuff, thanks for posting

[The-Fly]

I think the choice between HST and GD is splitting hairs, both are really good loads. That said, I do use hst 147gr.

[fortyofforty]

Hate to tout my own tag line, but here it is:

"The fact of the matter is simply that a bullet with enough penetration placed in the right spot does the job." J. D. Jones

That about says it all.

[DRT]

Then just shoot hardball if penetration is all you need.

[fortyofforty]

Placed in the right spot, it would be all you need. Expansion gives us a margin for error in terms of placement. The same is true of increased diameter. Also, hollowpoints will have less tendency to overpenetrate and injure innocent people. The constant arguing on GT over tenths of an inch in final expansion brings nothing. Any modern, quality hollowpoint will do fine.

[BOGE]

The constant arguing on GT over tenths of an inch in final expansion brings nothing.

But it brings joy to all those "chairborne" commandos & armchair coroners who fret so!! :supergrin:

:rofl: