Why not the XTP?

[Boris Bush]

Well with all the newfangled bullets out there why not just use a XTP? It has been around a long time, it works and is not expensive.

Of every bullet I have used the XTP is the only "conventional" style HP to NEVER fail to expand when shot into flesh.

It expands, it penetrates (even a 115 9mm will penetrate 15") But most of all........... It is the most accurate HP I have fired from any pistol I have owned.

Why not?

I did a backflip when I found Blackhills 124 grain +P XTPs and stoked my mags with it and tested ASAP.

I remember one time I was shooting 'coons in a barn we do not use anymore and the 'coons were going into grandmas garage and pooping on her car. She asked me to get rid of them and the last two were in the wall. I saw the heads peeking out at me and aimed where the body would be. The round went through the wall board (somekind of thick wood) through the 'coon and through the back board on the wall. The bullets were in the middle of the room on the other side, fully expanded with the jacket still on. I was impressed. Penetrating 2 boards nearly 1/2" thick and 8" of flesh and still held together.

I feel pretty good with the same load in my gun right now.... :supergrin:

[Brass Nazi]

My most accurate pistol reloads use XTP bullets.

[Jeff82]

I don't know about today's batches but the earlier XTP's (mid '90's) seemed to penetrate too far and had to be shot really fast to get to expand at all. They did great when shooting into a water bucket though (water is notorious "killer" of jacketed ammo)! Most others would fragment but the 124 gr XTP's I loaded in 9 hung together just fine, even at ~1200fps . I finally settled on Gold Dots ('90's) leaving the XTPs for small-medsmall game. Recently switched to HSTs (last year).

[J.P.]

I have no reservation whatsoever about carrying XTPs in a defensive gun.
They are arguably the most accurate JHP made and they have a good track record on the street.

A deputy friend plugged a badguy with a single 9mm 124gr XTP to the chest and dropped him instantly.

ETA:
Interestingly, when I did some 9mm wetpack testing the 124gr XTP left the largest initial temporary cavity signature of all rounds tested....meaning the largest/earliest hole in the wetpack.
It did this every time.
I'm still trying to understand what that means. ;)

[Merkavaboy]

Well with all the newfangled bullets out there why not just use a XTP? It has been around a long time, it works and is not expensive.

Of every bullet I have used the XTP is the only "conventional" style HP to NEVER fail to expand when shot into flesh.

It expands, it penetrates (even a 115 9mm will penetrate 15") But most of all........... It is the most accurate HP I have fired from any pistol I have owned.

Why not?

I did a backflip when I found Blackhills 124 grain +P XTPs and stoked my mags with it and tested ASAP.

I remember one time I was shooting 'coons in a barn we do not use anymore and the 'coons were going into grandmas garage and pooping on her car. She asked me to get rid of them and the last two were in the wall. I saw the heads peeking out at me and aimed where the body would be. The round went through the wall board (somekind of thick wood) through the 'coon and through the back board on the wall. The bullets were in the middle of the room on the other side, fully expanded with the jacket still on. I was impressed. Penetrating 2 boards nearly 1/2" thick and 8" of flesh and still held together.

I feel pretty good with the same load in my gun right now.... :supergrin:


So, exactly how many people have you shot with XTP bullets? Just because you've shot "coons" through wooden wall boards doesn't mean that they'll be good for personal defense.

Personally, I'd never use XTP ammo for SD since there are many more street proven modern JHP designs available at my local stores and on the internet. XTP's are designed to be deep penetrating and late expanding bullets; not exactly what I want in a personal SD load.

[glock20c10mm]

So, exactly how many people have you shot with XTP bullets? Just because you've shot "coons" through wooden wall boards doesn't mean that they'll be good for personal defense.
Can's see how it would detract from them being a good SD round either. Do you? How?

XTP's are designed to be deep penetrating and late expanding bullets
Where are you getting that info from? I've seen no evidence of this. Sure, they do outpenetrate some other bullet designs, but NOT ALL(note some of the new bonded rounds), and if you want to reduce penetration depth simply go with a lighter weight bullet.

XTPs are not designed to be late expanding bullets, period. Are you confused because they are labeled as being a controlled expansion design? If so, it's not the case.

I noticed a number of people mentioning excellent accuracy with XTP bullets. I can't speak from personal experience, but I've heard this from many others as well.

[Boris Bush]

So, exactly how many people have you shot with XTP bullets? Just because you've shot "coons" through wooden wall boards doesn't mean that they'll be good for personal defense.

Personally, I'd never use XTP ammo for SD since there are many more street proven modern JHP designs available at my local stores and on the internet. XTP's are designed to be deep penetrating and late expanding bullets; not exactly what I want in a personal SD load.

You are funny. I never shot a person with XTPs, only ball. I have shot more than 'coons with XTPs. I hunted deer forever with them from 357 mag and 9mm. I can tell you right now I can draw a direct conclusion what a XTP would do to "people", since I have seen people shot with 9mm ball and shot deer with 9mm ball. Dunno, maybe I am wrong.......

[Jeff82]

Can's see how it would detract from them being a good SD round either. Do you? How?


Where are you getting that info from? I've seen no evidence of this. Sure, they do outpenetrate some other bullet designs, but NOT ALL(note some of the new bonded rounds), and if you want to reduce penetration depth simply go with a lighter weight bullet.

XTPs are not designed to be late expanding bullets, period. Are you confused because they are labeled as being a controlled expansion design? If so, it's not the case.

I noticed a number of people mentioning excellent accuracy with XTP bullets. I can't speak from personal experience, but I've heard this from many others as well.

Actually I think this corroborates with my experience. IIRC, the XTP came out shortly after several bad (too many gg's hurt) LEO shoot outs when all the manufacturers started scrambling for better SD HPs. All of a sudden bullet design was first priority (priority had been "wonder-nine" development ["chrunchintickers" according to COL Cooper] as the big swing to semi-autos was taking place) and Hornady was first (?) out of the gate. Up to that point, .38 Spec and 110 and 125 gr .357 Mags were being used and testing was showing the .38 to be under performing while the Mags that worked only got ~12" penetration in testing (we didn't yet understand why it was working - the exception to the rule of "fragmenting" ammo). So every body started wanting "more penetration". The XTP did it. A while later the FBI was involved with their seminal study and the creation of the current testing standards. Turns out we didn't need as much penetration as the XTP (and some others) gave and most manufacturers tuned them 'down' to current levels. The rest is history.

[Boris Bush]

Sorry guys but a badguy will not stand there static arms to the side like a B-27 Target will. More than likely an attacker will have up, and typicaly blocking the vital zone, his arms. Arms consist of dense muscle and bone and two layers of elastic skin. Then you must penetrate some more elastic skin, maybe some bone and some more dense muscle.

What happens when you shoot M855 ball through an arm before it gets to where you want it to go? Try the same shot with M955 ball and see what happens. My first 3-5 mags was loaded with M955 ball after I saw what both would do from 0-200 yards......

The normal media for penetration tests is gello that you can press your finger into! Try and push a finger into flesh, through bone and see what happens..... I have seen tests on gello and can tell you from shooting flesh you get 7-9 inches of difference depending on what type of tissue (bone) you hit, with any brand of HP.

[freakshow10mm]

I am a huge XTP fanatic. All my pistols shoot XTPs or Noslers.

[Gunnut 45/454]

My Ruger P345 is loaded with 200 gr XTP's, I agree they will penetrate with out a doupt! :)
Very acturate bullets, I also used them in in 45 LC, 454 Casull inboth rifle and pistols! Stopped using them in the 380 ACP though as they would not exspand at all!

[BadAndy]

I haven't shot anything but paper and steel plates so far with the XTPs I've loaded using Bullseye and RedDot but they feed real well in my Para and HK45c.

[AusShane]

I personally love them. Ive shot lots of animals with them (mostly in 9mm and in the 357mag) my favourite load was a 124gn handloaded to 1250fps out of a glock 19 - i lost count of how many Wild goats and Kangaroos ive shot with that combo and it was very rare for one to get up even after 1 shot. Ive seen them exit - but leaving a rather large hole (as in fist size once or twice) now days i have a 17A glock and a 34 so that means better velocity and nowdays i use a better powder i comfortably get them up to 1300fps (can go higher but thats good enough) ive also used them in the 357mag anywhere from 1250fps from a 2 & 1/4 inch barrel right upto 1800fps from a 6" barrel - and worked VERY well. Used that load in the 19 once to drop 2 wild dogs, one was in a trap the other was circling and getting aggressive - both died pretty quick, there cheap, common, very accurate, they can work in the 357sig (if you load them right) and most of all they are very accurate jacket stays on as others have noted.
The factory load is ok just a shame Hornday dont make a +P+ load in the 9mm thatd be a top load!
heres a pic of my load 124gn XTP doing 1280fps compared to a Factory TAP load doing 1120fps
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j227/shaneme28/9mmhuntingldplusTAP.jpg

[vafish]

We all have to carry what we feel comfortable with.

I've sued XTP's in .44 mags for deer hunting. They worked just fine for that.

I don't think XTP's are the best choice for self defense, but they aren't that bad.

If they function flawlessly in your gun, are accurate, and you have faith in them don't worry about what everyone else thinks and carry on.

Your performance will matter more than the bullets.

[Jason607]

Why not? Good question. So they don't expand as quickly or as much as some of the newer designs, but they do expand well, and are known for their penetration qualities. Most of the time, when a handgun round fails to stop, it's because it failed to penetrate. Like Boris Bush said, the BG most likely isn't going to be standing there, but instead have their arms up, maby angled differently. I'm not saying they are the best, but they by far aren't the worse. If expansion is such an concern, why are you using a little 9mm?

[SAWMAN]

Moose,bear,deer,coyotes(in emergency),all have fell/died as the result of being hit by me with a Hornady "XTP".

They penetrate great,and hold together,when used within the acceptable velocities(call Hornady).

I'm sure they would do a great job on the BG's also.

[Boris Bush]

why are you using a little 9mm?

If my experiences are not enough then read post 13.

[fredj338]

I have also found the XTP to be a very accurate bullet. They are deep penetrating, & minimal, not late expanding. They are a pretty good SD round especially if you like light & fast because the penetration is still there. I like the 115gr in 9mm, 155gr in 40 & 185gr-200gr in 45acp. The 200gr std. vel. load in 45acp exites my Om @ 900fps & penetrates as deep as most 230grJHP.

[glock20c10mm]

The XTPs also are relatively reasonably priced as component bullets for reloaders, paricularily for a very good bullet design. And, as many still continue to mention, you'll be hard pressed to find a more accurate bullet at any shooting distance.

One thing I must say; I am continually amazed at how well they do hold their jacket for a nonbonded dullets design when fired into various media at close range from 10mm Double Tap loads that utilize the XTP bullet. Sometimes they'll shed the jacket, but most of the time not. And when they do shed their jacket, the rest of the bullet is ALWAYS very intact other than being mushroomed on top.

[David N.]

They penetrate great,and hold together,when used within the acceptable velocities(call Hornady).

Or download the hangun bullets section of their catalog.

http://www.hornady.com/media/2008_catalog/17-20_bullets_handgun.pdf

[AusShane]

Why not? Good question. So they don't expand as quickly or as much as some of the newer designs, but they do expand well, and are known for their penetration qualities. Most of the time, when a handgun round fails to stop, it's because it failed to penetrate. Like Boris Bush said, the BG most likely isn't going to be standing there, but instead have their arms up, maby angled differently. I'm not saying they are the best, but they by far aren't the worse. If expansion is such an concern, why are you using a little 9mm?

Because a 9mm actually does expand - especially when you push it +P velocities or you could use a .45 as i tryed - in flesh ive found it fail to expand at all. As ive said ive seen fist size exit holes from the 9mm JHP's, havent seen that with a .45 or .40. 'A little 9mm' ? thats just sad, take note most people who actually have killed and who do it on a regular basis use the 9mm and have complete faith in it. Many times ive seen animals simply walk/hop/run off after taking hits from heavy projectiles that pass through and through without expanding basically performing like a FMJ. Getting back to the XTP's performance, well i dont buy the whole 'late expanding' they expand normally all depending on velocities, they hold together well no mattee what velocity.

[glock20c10mm]

...you could use a .45 as i tryed - in flesh ive found it fail to expand at all. As ive said ive seen fist size exit holes from the 9mm JHP's, havent seen that with a .45 or .40. 'A little 9mm' ?......
I haven't actually shot any 40 or 45, but with a premium bullet, comparing the same specific bullet for all, the 40 SHOULD out expand the 9 most of the time even if only by a marginal amount, and the 45 SHOULD be noticeably better all the time. And with premium bullets in any of the 3 without obstruction from barriers, clothing or not, they should expand 99% of the time. What 45 bullets did you find to not expand in flesh? Are you specifically refering to shots into shoulders of big boned animals? Are you including: Gold Dots, Golden Sabers, Win Ranger T, HST.....or what?

As for the fist sized exit holes, what penetration depth was achieved before the bullet exited? If it was less than or around 12" with medium to heavy for caliber bullets, that wouldn't be all that surprising.

Just seems to me like you're making much more out of something than really exists. If you've got that much personal experience to tell you that with somewhat hotter loaded 9mm Luger rounds, what kind of holes do you think hotter loaded 357SIG rounds would make?:shocked: Imagine the 9X25Dillon!:wow: Just saying, I think you're exaggerating the 9mm's credit over and above what the 40 and 45 have to offer with properly selected ammo for a given task. The way you're talking, an awful lot of BGs would have succumbed to the 9mm much more readily than they have, and they haven't, too much of the time. Same with 40, and same with 45.

[Dandapani]

Because a 9mm actually does expand - especially when you push it +P velocities.

9mm. 147 grain. Into wetpack. Out of 2" barrel snub. Velocity had to be around 850 fps... All but the ball expanded. :)

upper left WWB, upper right Ranger, lower left Gold Dot, lower right HST
http://www.danobrien.ws/~dmobrien/Snub147/DSCN0478.JPG

[J.P.]

Black Hills is offering a couple of +P loads and they are using XTPs now.

They are reportedly manufactuing very high quality ammunition with excellent quality control. I've not personally tried any yet but I know quite a few people who are more than satisfied with them.

I've always been a proponent of bumping up the velocity in defensive ammunition to increase the likelyhood of expansion. One downside to this is bullet fragmentation.
However with good bonded rounds, you get the best of both worlds.
While the XTP isn't really "bonded", as others have mentioned it does tend to stay together very well! I've tested a lot of XTPs in water jugs and proper wetpack over the years and even the 115gr 357sig round didn't exhibit extreme fragmentation in water jugs....and that puppy's cookin'!

What I'd really like to see is someone load a 147gr XTP to higher velocity than the standard 975fps mark.

Earlier I mentioned that the accuracy of the XTP is second to none and others have echoed my sentiments. In particular I would like to mention that I've never seen a more accurate round than thr 147gr XTP.
Years ago when I was into benchresting various factory and handloads, the 147gr XTP was truly amazing!

[Boris Bush]

Because a 9mm actually does expand - especially when you push it +P velocities or you could use a .45 as i tryed - in flesh ive found it fail to expand at all. As ive said ive seen fist size exit holes from the 9mm JHP's, havent seen that with a .45 or .40. 'A little 9mm' ? thats just sad, take note most people who actually have killed and who do it on a regular basis use the 9mm and have complete faith in it. Many times ive seen animals simply walk/hop/run off after taking hits from heavy projectiles that pass through and through without expanding basically performing like a FMJ. Getting back to the XTP's performance, well i dont buy the whole 'late expanding' they expand normally all depending on velocities, they hold together well no mattee what velocity.

I love it!! Finaly someone has come to the same conclusion I have come to over many years of killing with the big three!! For those that truely use handguns know exactly what the winner is 9mm holds more ammo, kills better, and does it alot cheaper. The only problem you will have telling people this though is the people that read into stories and tall tales more than real life experience. Beware, when you talk to the right people, the 9mm can and will not kill better.

I am very happy that I can buy factory +p 124 XTPs for my 9mm once again, and it sits beside me knowing I have the best performing HP of all time.

[AusShane]

I haven't actually shot any 40 or 45, but with a premium bullet, comparing the same specific bullet for all, the 40 SHOULD out expand the 9 most of the time even if only by a marginal amount, and the 45 SHOULD be noticeably better all the time. And with premium bullets in any of the 3 without obstruction from barriers, clothing or not, they should expand 99% of the time. What 45 bullets did you find to not expand in flesh? Are you specifically refering to shots into shoulders of big boned animals? Are you including: Gold Dots, Golden Sabers, Win Ranger T, HST.....or what?

As for the fist sized exit holes, what penetration depth was achieved before the bullet exited? If it was less than or around 12" with medium to heavy for caliber bullets, that wouldn't be all that surprising.

Just seems to me like you're making much more out of something than really exists. If you've got that much personal experience to tell you that with somewhat hotter loaded 9mm Luger rounds, what kind of holes do you think hotter loaded 357SIG rounds would make?:shocked: Imagine the 9X25Dillon!:wow: Just saying, I think you're exaggerating the 9mm's credit over and above what the 40 and 45 have to offer with properly selected ammo for a given task. The way you're talking, an awful lot of BGs would have succumbed to the 9mm much more readily than they have, and they haven't, too much of the time. Same with 40, and same with 45.

Ok to start off with - the .45 auto rounds where - 230gn SXT's supremes, 185gn +P Remington (just standard projectiles - they dont load it anymore) both loads went through and through without expanding at all. Maybe these new rounds are better - maybe there not, my biggest problem with the .45 has been the fact that its slow, hollow points need speed to expand just because in theory and in gel tests 'they should expand' dosent mean in meat they actually will. Now as for the .40 it has worked well for me, didnt have one over penetrate however i never saw exit holes from the .40 that looked as bad as some of the 9mm+P's i saw. As for the depth i saw from those 9mm loads one was a Roo hit from side to side and exiting through the rib cage, it was approximately 2/3 of the way up the body - i didnt measure the animals girth hard to really know however the animal stood at about my height 6' and was a male, im guessing it weighed about 65kgs (140lbs) The other was a head shot - the round hit below the jaw and exited the right side of the head making a hole that covered a good section of its head. As for the 9x25 dillion never shot one, the 357 sig i have one and love it (am yet to kill anything with it) the 357mag however - i litterally have lost count of the amount of things ive shot with it, works great, accurate, long ranged, versatile and able to loaded up to very high velocity. I honestly do think the 357mag did a better job than the 9mm but then theres all the other stuff (capacity, light weight, low recoil - list goes on) I think ill find the 357sig as good as 357mag factory ammo. As for the 9mm and BG's sucumbing well ill admit some loads in the 9mm are bad and most people dont ever take into account %'s of people shot/people survivng etc etc, lets add up all the people shot with each calibre then compare who survived who didnt, i doubt youd find much of difference between them all, lets face theres more 9mm's out there - that means more shootings - that leads to a bigger law of averages. Plenty of agencies in your own country that still use the 9mm because it works fine, they didnt bother changing to bigger cals 'because the FBI did' and it justifyed budgets. Im not exaggerating the 9mm at all - simply stating what ive seen, i had problems with animals taking off after being hit with the .45 - i switched to the 9mm with a hot load - guess what??? it worked great! no looking back, i then bought a .40 to shoot major power factor in IPSC which i found also worked well on animals, better than the .45 and similair to the 9mm+P. In the beginning of your post you still seem to be quoting testing as opposed to actual hits on the living things so ill leave that with you, go kill something with each and then come back to me ive already been there and done that - my main annoyance with threads and some of the people writing in here really have no experience beyond gel testing. Bottom line? handguns are no comparison to rifles, the 9mm is as good as any of the other service cals, its really sad to see people say things like 'Why carry a little 9mm?' when they havent seen 1st hand what it can do.

[AusShane]

I love it!! Finaly someone has come to the same conclusion I have come to over many years of killing with the big three!! For those that truely use handguns know exactly what the winner is 9mm holds more ammo, kills better, and does it alot cheaper. The only problem you will have telling people this though is the people that read into stories and tall tales more than real life experience. Beware, when you talk to the right people, the 9mm can and will not kill better.

I am very happy that I can buy factory +p 124 XTPs for my 9mm once again, and it sits beside me knowing I have the best performing HP of all time.

Yes thank you thank you :supergrin: i saw your other posts on the WWB 147gn which was interesting, am yet to kill anything with any 147gns but ill try it out oneday. The 124gns at +P velocities have worked well for me, but am open to trying the 147's. Im a bit over 'gel testing' and 'theories/data' combining that with small minded fixating on the physical size of the round it all adds up to one reaction from me --> :upeyes: Good to see someone out there whose actually got there hands dirty.

[J.P.]

Yes thank you thank you :supergrin: i saw your other posts on the WWB 147gn which was interesting, am yet to kill anything with any 147gns but ill try it out oneday. The 124gns at +P velocities have worked well for me, but am open to trying the 147's. Im a bit over 'gel testing' and 'theories/data' combining that with small minded fixating on the physical size of the round it all adds up to one reaction from me --> :upeyes: Good to see someone out there whose actually got there hands dirty.

I wouldn't totally dismiss gel testing since it does have some correlation to how things can work on the street.
It's certianly not the end all,be all but it's worthy data,IMO.

[AusShane]

I wouldn't totally dismiss gel testing since it does have some correlation to how things can work on the street.
It's certianly not the end all,be all but it's worthy data,IMO.
True but i think shooting something with flesh/bones/organs is a better measure of testing. Much cleaner to dig through to find projectiles :supergrin: i use wetpacks as you have and that has some credit but like i said cant beat see something fall down after being hit.

[J.P.]

True but i think shooting something with flesh/bones/organs is a better measure of testing. Much cleaner to dig through to find projectiles :supergrin: i use wetpacks as you have and that has some credit but like i said cant beat see something fall down after being hit.

Okay, I didn 't discount flesh and bone shooting.

[dougader]

Well, I got the 9mm 124 gr xtp's to come apart in water jugs at 1523 fps from my 9x23 Winchester. But the bullet still did an awesome job as far as I'm concerned. Only the Speer bonded 9mm Gold Dot held together better. But like others have posted, the xtp has been more accurate for me, too.

When I work up max loads I like using conventional jacketed bullets, too. I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about the plated bullets (like the GDHP) don't seem to track quite the same. Speer does publish separate data for some of their GD's versus their FMJ bullets. Maybe its just bullet length. I don't know. But sometimes I get odd results when loading up GD's. Switching to xtp's, things just seem to fall right into place where I expect them to be.

[Jeff82]

Ok to start off with - the .45 auto rounds where - 230gn SXT's supremes, 185gn +P Remington (just standard projectiles - they dont load it anymore) both loads went through and through without expanding at all. Maybe these new rounds are better - maybe there not, my biggest problem with the .45 has been the fact that its slow, hollow points need speed to expand just because in theory and in gel tests 'they should expand' dosent mean in meat they actually will. Now as for the .40 it has worked well for me, didnt have one over penetrate however i never saw exit holes from the .40 that looked as bad as some of the 9mm+P's i saw. As for the depth i saw from those 9mm loads one was a Roo hit from side to side and exiting through the rib cage, it was approximately 2/3 of the way up the body - i didnt measure the animals girth hard to really know however the animal stood at about my height 6' and was a male, im guessing it weighed about 65kgs (140lbs) The other was a head shot - the round hit below the jaw and exited the right side of the head making a hole that covered a good section of its head. As for the 9x25 dillion never shot one, the 357 sig i have one and love it (am yet to kill anything with it) the 357mag however - i litterally have lost count of the amount of things ive shot with it, works great, accurate, long ranged, versatile and able to loaded up to very high velocity. I honestly do think the 357mag did a better job than the 9mm but then theres all the other stuff (capacity, light weight, low recoil - list goes on) I think ill find the 357sig as good as 357mag factory ammo. As for the 9mm and BG's sucumbing well ill admit some loads in the 9mm are bad and most people dont ever take into account %'s of people shot/people survivng etc etc, lets add up all the people shot with each calibre then compare who survived who didnt, i doubt youd find much of difference between them all, lets face theres more 9mm's out there - that means more shootings - that leads to a bigger law of averages. Plenty of agencies in your own country that still use the 9mm because it works fine, they didnt bother changing to bigger cals 'because the FBI did' and it justifyed budgets. Im not exaggerating the 9mm at all - simply stating what ive seen, i had problems with animals taking off after being hit with the .45 - i switched to the 9mm with a hot load - guess what??? it worked great! no looking back, i then bought a .40 to shoot major power factor in IPSC which i found also worked well on animals, better than the .45 and similair to the 9mm+P. In the beginning of your post you still seem to be quoting testing as opposed to actual hits on the living things so ill leave that with you, go kill something with each and then come back to me ive already been there and done that - my main annoyance with threads and some of the people writing in here really have no experience beyond gel testing. Bottom line? handguns are no comparison to rifles, the 9mm is as good as any of the other service cals, its really sad to see people say things like 'Why carry a little 9mm?' when they havent seen 1st hand what it can do.

I need to send you a box of Federal 147 HST's. Then have you report back...

Prolly an export law against that though... :(

[Boris Bush]

Yes thank you thank you :supergrin: i saw your other posts on the WWB 147gn which was interesting, am yet to kill anything with any 147gns but ill try it out oneday. The 124gns at +P velocities have worked well for me, but am open to trying the 147's. Im a bit over 'gel testing' and 'theories/data' combining that with small minded fixating on the physical size of the round it all adds up to one reaction from me --> :upeyes: Good to see someone out there whose actually got there hands dirty.

The 124 XTP is the bullet I used most in my own loads and I do not need to tell you how they work. The most used factory load I used was the 147 subsonic by winchester and it did a good number on anything I put them into. The XTP was "better" but the factory 147 is good, cheap and did not consume time I did not have to, just buy, stoke mag, and get to it.

Real confidence in your carry load comes from actualy killing with them. Someone can call me a moron, stupid, don't know what I am talking about all they want. Stacks of dead critters have to carry some kind of proof of effectivness of a certain load. I know for a fact as you do certain calibers do not stackup to the performance of others and even different bullets within the same caliber. For someone to come along and say deer aint good test media and a human for some magical reason will be better killed by the calibers and rounds I tested and got poor results from makes no sense at all to me.........

If they feel better about it more power to 'em. Not me. I only stoke well tested rounds I know will work as I need them to.

To me gello is a good test to see if a bullet will expand and uniformity of performance overall. Not what it will do in real flesh. Like I said before you can take a block of gello and push your finger into it! Try that on real flesh, push real hard, then push harder, it aint going to happen.........

[SIGShooter]

So, exactly how many people have you shot with XTP bullets? Just because you've shot "coons" through wooden wall boards doesn't mean that they'll be good for personal defense.

Personally, I'd never use XTP ammo for SD since there are many more street proven modern JHP designs available at my local stores and on the internet. XTP's are designed to be deep penetrating and late expanding bullets; not exactly what I want in a personal SD load.



Deep penetrating, late expanding...

Sounds perfect to me. Of course not everyone is the same.

[Boris Bush]

Quote:
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So, exactly how many people have you shot with XTP bullets? Just because you've shot "coons" through wooden wall boards doesn't mean that they'll be good for personal defense.

Personally, I'd never use XTP ammo for SD since there are many more street proven modern JHP designs available at my local stores and on the internet. XTP's are designed to be deep penetrating and late expanding bullets; not exactly what I want in a personal SD load.

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Deep penetrating, late expanding...

Sounds perfect to me. Of course not everyone is the same.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

I think if I said every and anything will kill exactly the same from .17rf to 700 nitro express no matter the animal he would not carry anything just to disagree with me...........

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[AusShane]

I need to send you a box of Federal 147 HST's. Then have you report back...

Prolly an export law against that though... :(
Hey i can get them here already, id have to buy a couple of hundred to get my moneys worth, im sure they work great! but hey ive got something that works already - a handloaded 124gn xtp doing 1300fps - good enough for me. Besides i like speed mid weight at a high speed has always worked, although im yet to try the 147gn JHP on game im guessing itll be ok - time will tell. :)

[AusShane]

The 124 XTP is the bullet I used most in my own loads and I do not need to tell you how they work. The most used factory load I used was the 147 subsonic by winchester and it did a good number on anything I put them into. The XTP was "better" but the factory 147 is good, cheap and did not consume time I did not have to, just buy, stoke mag, and get to it.

Real confidence in your carry load comes from actualy killing with them. Someone can call me a moron, stupid, don't know what I am talking about all they want. Stacks of dead critters have to carry some kind of proof of effectivness of a certain load. I know for a fact as you do certain calibers do not stackup to the performance of others and even different bullets within the same caliber. For someone to come along and say deer aint good test media and a human for some magical reason will be better killed by the calibers and rounds I tested and got poor results from makes no sense at all to me.........

If they feel better about it more power to 'em. Not me. I only stoke well tested rounds I know will work as I need them to.

To me gello is a good test to see if a bullet will expand and uniformity of performance overall. Not what it will do in real flesh. Like I said before you can take a block of gello and push your finger into it! Try that on real flesh, push real hard, then push harder, it aint going to happen.........

Yep pretty hard to beat the XTP, i have some 357sig gold dot projectiles id like to load in the 9mm to try out, but hey the Xtp is working not much point in fixing something that aint broke. Ill give the 147gn WWB a go next trip out west - if i got time, may also (if time isnt a concern) ill take some pics im sure some of the .45/10mm worshippers/9mm haters will be suprised. Seems this whole 'fist sized holes' thing is getting out of hand - i just said id seen it before, mostly from the 357mag on areas of animals with alot of bone (ie, headshots, ribcage etc) but i have seen it a couple of times from said handload. It certainly can happen.