Bear Killer? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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J.Bourne
07-10-2002, 23:27
Forgive my question if it's naive, but as my wife likes to remind me, I'm not exactly the "outdoorsy" type. I've got a friend who is into hunting, etc. He claims that a 10mm is a fine caliber handgun for wild boar or Bear hunting. Now, I know enough to know not to ever get downrange from a 10mm, but can it really effectively take down a large North American Brown Bear? And as an aside, what about a nasty old, sharp tusked boar? Regards.

Michigun
07-11-2002, 05:42
Are you looking to hunt or to protect?

As far as hunting goes, I don’t think I go looking for a bear with a 10mm… a boar yes, but not a bear. A 12 gauge would be a better choice in my opinion……. But then again, I’d hunt bear with my bow…:)

TheEggman
07-11-2002, 07:53
but not likely.

While at a friends cabin, 2000 miles from nowhere, a black bear decided it wanted in the cabin. It was standing up, clawing at the door, which was about to give way.

I emptied a .357 while my friend loaded his 30-30 and emptied that. (through the door) It took another 5 rounds of .357 before he stopped and bled out.

We recovered 15 bullets from various parts including the head and chest. The guts were pretty well shredded.

The investigating warden (it was NOT bear season) said any one of the shots could have stopped him, but it didn't. The bear was not rabid, apparently just crazy. Since it was off-season we didn't get to keep the rug, which was full of holes anyway.

CAN a bear be stopped with with a 10mm, - sure! Would I want to BET that it would be - no way!

A wounded deer will run away, a wounded bear just gets pi##ed.

MCNETT
07-11-2002, 09:20
I have taken two black bears (250lb or so) in the last two years with my G20 and 6"KKM bbl. Two shots, two kills. A 10mm will take one down with proper loads and proper placement.
On the subject of brown (grizzly, Kodiak) bears, you had better use a large wheelgun as a minimum (.44mag, .45Colt, .454Casull, .480 Ruger) or you will most likely wind up in trouble! I am a huge 10mm advocate, but I would have my SRH .454 Casull on my side in Alaska.
-Mike

10mmGuy
07-11-2002, 17:57
Eggman,
WTF is wrong with you guys that you can't take out a bear with a rifle for christ's sake? Were you missing or what? Musta been one mean assed bear!

J. Bo,
I've taken bear and boars with my 10mm's. I even took the bear with my G29, one shot through the lungs. One of the boars was with my 29 also. It's plenty of gun. Jumping up to a 20 especially with a 6" bbl and yer talkin' maxwads of firepower. As far as Browns or lord Griz, as soon as I can afford it (I'll prolly die of old age first) I'm headed north for some 10mm bear slayin' action! But then again people think I spend too much time on the crack pipe!

I'm sure people are getting sick of me posting this but it might help ya answer some questions!

Overview of my 10mm hunting experience:

1. 6pt. Whitetail Buck, about 150lbs. I got lucky on my first deer taken with a 10mm and shot him through the heart @ 30yds. He dropped in his tracks. I was using my Glock 29 with Federal Hydo-Shocks. The bullet passed through the heart and was found just under the skin on the other side.

2. 6pt. Whitetail Buck, about 150lbs. Another heart shot, this one @ 15yds with my Glock 29. Wanting more penetration I went with 180gr. ElDorado Starfires. I got a 10mm entrance wound and a 10mm exit wound, but left a fantastic blood trail (I could see it pumping out as he ran away). The deer ran about 20yds and piled up.

3. 200lb Black Bear. Once again with my 29, this time I used 200gr. Black Talon penetrators. It was a high lung shot @ about 15yds. He ran about 200yds through the thickest and wildest **** Minnesota has to offer. No blood trail for about the first 100yds. When we found him dead, he had a 10mm entrance wound and a 10mm exit wound. I had shot a little to far forward and just barely hit both lungs. I think the lack of blood was due to the fat bears have and also the time it took to fill his lungs with blood. It was still a good clean one shot kill.

4. 200lb Wild Boar. Again with my 29. Noting the lack of expansion in the bear, I decided to try the 180gr. Starfires again. First shot was in the lungs @ 10yds. He was hit hard but still running full boar, so I put another one in his lungs @ 40yds. That anchored ‘em. Both bullets were solid lung hits and were recovered on the opposite “armor” plate. They both looked like you could reload them. ZERO expansion.

5. 150lb Whitetail Buck. This time using my new hunting set-up, a Glock 20 with an Optima2000 red dot from Tasco. While hunting our land this year I heard a shot close by. When I went to inspect and see who was hunting there I saw it was the neighbor in a nearby field. He had a deer down. I went over to talk to him and as I approached he flipped the deer over. The deer suddenly got up and came right for me @ about 15yds. I waited till he was clear of the neighbor and fired and hit 4 times. The last shot flipped him ass over teakettle. I was using 135gr. Cor-Bon. I didn’t get to do a post mortem on the deer (it was the neighbors after all), but from what I saw he was in the hurt bag.

6. 140lb Whitetail Doe. I used my 20 to take this she-deer. I made a bad shot when she came by on the drive and hit her in the hind quarter @ about 20yds. She stopped again @ 60yds and then I took her through the neck and dropped her. Once again I used the 135gr. Cor-Bon. The shot in the hind quarters turned it to mush and left a good blood trail (must have hit the femoral artery). The neck shot passed through and left one hell of an exit.

7. Feral Hog (Piney Woods Rooter?) 160lbs. This was taken in FL. With my 20 and a new 6" factory hunting barrel. After a long chase with the dogs and some heart pumping action I went a little over board. The dogs were fighting with the boar for a long time and wouldn’t give me a shot. The guide ended up having to get into the foray and grab the boar. In all the excitement I ended up drilling him 4 times right behind the ear at point blank range. I’m sure one shot would have been enough, but what the hell! I only found one bullet and that was in a bulge of skin on the far side of the neck. The rest passed through. I was using the 155gr Gold-Dot from Georgia Arms.

8. Blackbuck 80lbs. This little antelope native to India was taken in TX with my 20. I hit him at 20yds right behind the shoulder as he was slightly quartering away with 155gr Gold -Dot from Georgia Arms. He ran 50yds. The bullet passed through and turned both lungs into mash along with breaking the far side shoulder. The blood trail wasn’t that great perhaps because of the shoulder hit, who knows!

9. 140lb Fallow Doe in TX. My best shot yet! Through the spine @ 83yds. Dropped right in her tracks. This was with my 20 and the same 155gr Gold-Dot from Georgia Arms. I recovered the bullet in a bulge of skin on the far side of the spine.



Me and my friend have tested nearly every 10mm bullet/load we can get our hands on using our very scientific “backyard ballistics” tests (wet newspaper, water jugs, etc..). Between these tests and the experience I have had with animals, I have pretty much settled on the 155gr Gold-Dot from Georgia Arms. If you want more penetration, Cor-Bon has some pretty good looking rounds. If you “roll your own” you can cook up some pretty hard hitting stuff that puts anything that I have tried to shame. For now I have stuck mainly to the “factory loaded” stuff. Good Luck!

mikescooling
07-11-2002, 23:58
Not intended to flame
10mmGuy
when you hunt for the first time you will see the will to live of a wild animal.
I have Blown the harts out of deer and they still ran a 100 yards.
P. S a 30-30 is a slow and dum brush round not intended for bear.

10mmGuy
07-12-2002, 22:08
"When you hunt for the first time"....exactly what the hell does that mean?

I have also had massive hits on deer and had them run. I once hit one @ about 10yds with a slug and had hin run off like nothing happened. I thought I missed till I found the large chunks of lung laying around. Found him about 100yds away with an exit through the lungs you could put you're fist in.

I've also seen Ted Nugent take out a charging Cape Buffalo with his G20. Go figure!

Thanks for clearing up what a 30-30 is. I've never heard of it before. ;Q

TheEggman
07-13-2002, 06:54
The folks at Fish and Game said it was likely that the bear had either an injury, or brain disorder like a tumor.
<P>The best comparison I could draw is a 350 pound crazed perp having a really bad experience with PCP.
<P>NORMALLY, any one of the shots COULD have stopped him. For some reason, (see above) he just wouldn't drop!
<P>I use my 30-30 as a 'medium range' varmint gun. Bears, sheep and the like get the .308
<P>My point is COULD I hunt larger game w/ a 10mm, sure!<BR>Is it the hunting weapon of choice, not exactly. It MIGHT do the job, and possibly would in many instances.<BR>Am I willing to bet my life and/or safety on it? No way!
<P>BTW (FWIW) - my personal carry, depending on circumstance is either a 19, 26 or a .357 3".
<P>Best to all and thanks for the forum!

J.Bourne
07-13-2002, 14:40
Some pretty well-reasoned response, people. Now I'll be able to rip his ***** to shreds when I talk to him next, as I took good notes. Thanks for the ammo. Regards.

10mmGuy
07-13-2002, 21:24
.

TrueGunNut
05-04-2005, 00:14
Whaaaat? Where can I see Ted the man Nugent taking out a Cape Buffalo with a glock? Haha, I'm serious!:)

noway
05-04-2005, 07:48
If somebody thing that they can cleanly harvest a Cape Buffalo with a 10mm, then you are full or crap. Get the proper caliber and proper bullet for the job. ( 44mag at minimum witha 300gr or heavier bullet ).

Even Ted Nugent knows this, I too would like to see this vid of ted hunting a cape with just a 10mm? the story I heard was he had hunted and shot the cape on one of his bow hunts and "finished" him off after a long track job, w/ his 10mm.

10mm are great, but they aren't no magical handgun caliber for hunting from a handgun. Okay for medium size boar & blk bear but I wouldn't try my luck with anything bigger or surely no cape buffalo.

A responsible hunter, learns to choose the correct weapon for the job. That means you don't get a sw500mag for a squrriel and don't get a .401 cal handgun for a cape.

AK_Stick
05-06-2005, 23:44
I've killed a big alaskan black bear with a 10mm. Two infact.


Yes, it can be done, and in the lower 48 I'd carry it without a second thought. However, in AK, I carry somthing a little bigger

ILikeFtLbs
05-07-2005, 13:26
A black bear? Plenty of people have done it with not problem. A grizzly? Doubtful, but still possible if it's on the small side. Brown bear? No way, no how. You try killing one of those with a 10mm Glock and he's gonna tear you apart and use your glock for a chew-toy. They're too big and too thick. You won't be able to put him down fast enough.

RugerFan58
05-07-2005, 15:20
Originally posted by 10mmGuy
I've also seen Ted Nugent take out a charging Cape Buffalo with his G20. Go figure!
You talking about the one on his video? If you were it was already wounded. I was impressed as well.;c

AK_Stick
05-07-2005, 22:25
Originally posted by ILikeFtLbs
A black bear? Plenty of people have done it with not problem. A grizzly? Doubtful, but still possible if it's on the small side. Brown bear? No way, no how. You try killing one of those with a 10mm Glock and he's gonna tear you apart and use your glock for a chew-toy. They're too big and too thick. You won't be able to put him down fast enough.


Alright, first off, you realize a grizzly and a brown bear are the same thing right?

And remember, a BIG alaskan black bear isn't your average lower 48 dog sized bear.

And after seeing what a 10 did to a blackie, I'd wager it'd work

ILikeFtLbs
05-08-2005, 12:58
A grizzly and Brown bear are not the same thing. I have seen both mounted and they are very different sizewise. They're genetically related, but size wise they are not the same. While a typical grizzly is 8ft and the bigger ones can get to 9ft, an average Brown bear is 10ft or more. A brown bear also has an average skull measurement of four inches greater than the grizzly. A grizzly averages 600-800 lbs while a brown bear averages 900-1100. That is the same difference in size between the average black bear and grizzly. Check the record books. The size requirements are different for a coastal brown bear vs. a grizzly.

AK_Stick
05-08-2005, 16:52
Oh, I'm sorry, please, tell a guy who's lived in alaska and around bears for all his life more about alaskan bears.


Sorry, they're the exact same bear, just a difference in location. Thats why rule of thumb is grizzly is smaller, not always so.

And I've never seen a rule book that says if he's X-inches hes a grizzly if he's Y, he's a brown bear. Its all location dude.

ILikeFtLbs
05-08-2005, 19:14
Originally posted by AK_Stick
And I've never seen a rule book that says if he's X-inches hes a grizzly if he's Y, he's a brown bear. Its all location dude.

I said they're the same bear, just different sizes. You are right, location is the key, but the result of the location has made enough difference to be recognized. Here's what the Boone and Crocket book has to say: Boone and Crocket minimum (http://www.boone-crockett.org/bgRecords/records_minimums.asp?area=bgRecords)

Maybe the rule book doesn't say that if he's x-inches hes a grizzly and if he's y, he's a brown bear, but whether he qualifies or not is going to depend on those measurements. He's going to be scored as a brown bear or a grizzly. A brown bear that scores the minimum for grizzly doesn't get into the book.

noway
05-08-2005, 23:04
Brown and grizzly are more closer than one would like to admit. They for all of the most part the same "damm bear" called by 2 names. If you want to throw in asnother wrinkle , add the Kodiak ( which is still a brown bear just restricted to certain areas and islands ).

In our parts of the world 3 bears exist ( Black/Brown/Polar ) In florida we only have one... black. And brown and polars exist only in a zoo oe as somebody rug or trophy. ;)

lomfs24
05-08-2005, 23:45
Originally posted by J.Bourne
Forgive my question if it's naive, but as my wife likes to remind me, I'm not exactly the "outdoorsy" type. I've got a friend who is into hunting, etc. He claims that a 10mm is a fine caliber handgun for wild boar or Bear hunting. Now, I know enough to know not to ever get downrange from a 10mm, but can it really effectively take down a large North American Brown Bear? And as an aside, what about a nasty old, sharp tusked boar? Regards. I've posted this here before. But it's time to again. I have heard that the joke in Alaska is that if you take a handgun of any flavor into bear country you should file the front sight off. That way, when the bear takes it away from you and sticks it where the sun don't shine it won't hurt as bad.

Can it be done. YES! Should you rely on it? NO.

FullClip
05-15-2005, 15:43
Originally posted by noway
In our parts of the world 3 bears exist ( Black/Brown/Polar ) In florida we only have one... black. And brown and polars exist only in a zoo oe as somebody rug or trophy. ;)


That's AOK by me!!;g Black bears up my way have all run away so far at least, and are normally the size of a Newfoundland or so. Yeah, they can get bigger, they can get nasty (or more likely half tame and used to people) but I don't lay awake at night worrying about them.
Never been to Grizzly / Brown / Kodiak Bear country, but those critters are a different story from what I hear. Think if I had only a 10mm with me, it would be better than nothing, but I'd toss it to my buddy to use while I laced up the running shoes!!;f

Alaska Bush Man
06-01-2005, 07:57
Here in Alaska, I have a G20 along with several other large bore pistols, I often take my G20 while walking to my bear bait stand carrying a Bow. Just like my other pistols pefect broadside double lung shots are the normal. If used properly the 10mm with 180 GD or 200 XTP will do the job, but their are other pistols cal. that are more efficent.....like the 44 mag or 454 Cal.

As for hunting in Grizzly terrority the G20 stays home.....period!
The 44 Mag a 5" SW 629 V-Comp Perf Shop is what I carry most of the time as a pillow gun with 250 Sierra FPJ Federal factory loads. My FA 454 is set up as a hunting pistol with a Burris 2X posi-lok scope....not a defense pistol.

While on camping trips with the family I have a Ithaca 37 pump Deerslayer 20" 12 ga...that I use Brennek Mag Slugs also my main home defense weapon.

lomfs24
06-01-2005, 08:06
Originally posted by FullClip
...but I'd toss it to my buddy to use while I laced up the running shoes!!;f

Remember, you don't have to outrun the bear, you just have to outrun the slowest member of your party. ;f

manboy
06-02-2005, 16:34
So something in a .40s&w or .45acp would pretty well be useless against a bear? (asking cause i don't know). Or am I better off with those than nothing?

Alaska Bush Man
06-02-2005, 18:04
If you don't have the proper weapons for bear defense, we don't go looking for them. The 10mm with heavy bullets would be at the bottom of the list as bear defense pistols. I have a G20 but also have more powerful pistols to carry in bear terrority. Here in Alaska we have bears and we have bears (grizzly) up where I live. As for handguns really the only thing i use them for while sleeping under the pillow while hunting.....and keeping a black bear from climbing up in a latter stand with me (which has happen). I just normally shoot over their heads to scare them off. If I need to kill them I have rifle.