U.s Flag On Backwards? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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sjones
07-19-2008, 22:03
I was in the service back in the 60's but that was a long time ago and my wife has asked me a question that I can't answer.When you see men in uniforms on tv the flag on their upper right arms is sewn on backwards,is that just tv or have things changed since I was in? thanks sj

GJ1981
07-20-2008, 12:46
The full-color U.S. flag cloth replica is worn so that the star field faces forward, or to the flag’s own right. When worn in this manner, the flag is facing to the observer’s right, and gives the effect of the flag flying in the breeze as the wearer moves forward.

RONSTAR
08-15-2008, 15:39
Its because your charging into battle.

deadday
08-15-2008, 16:01
The full-color U.S. flag cloth replica is worn so that the star field faces forward, or to the flag’s own right. When worn in this manner, the flag is facing to the observer’s right, and gives the effect of the flag flying in the breeze as the wearer moves forward.


That about covers it...:wavey:






drew

Tx-G30
08-17-2008, 03:59
when i was in the military, we didn't wear flag patches on our bdus.

when i worked for the wisconsin dept. of corrections we were issued patches and they were the backwards ones. some of us veterans pointed that out to management but they didn't care.

GreenDrake
08-17-2008, 04:36
IIRC the starfield always faces forward because we are always advancing and never retreating.

deadday
08-17-2008, 10:07
when i was in the military, we didn't wear flag patches on our bdus.

when i worked for the wisconsin dept. of corrections we were issued patches and they were the backwards ones. some of us veterans pointed that out to management but they didn't care.


The flag patch is worn during time of war.






drew

Tx-G30
08-19-2008, 04:53
The flag patch is worn during time of war.






drew

during the 1st gulf war... we didn't have flag patches on our bdus

G19Tony
08-19-2008, 08:36
We always wore the flag on our flightsuits. War or no war. MAC regs.

Texas357
08-19-2008, 09:20
They need to make the patches flap like a real flag would in the wind, in order to make it more obvious....

Jeff82
08-19-2008, 09:45
The flag patch is worn during time of war.
drew
We sewed them on in '84 for our 6 month tour in the Sinai. No war. All "observe and report".

We sewed them on in '95 for our 12 month tour in Bosnia (and again in '97) and that was a pseudo (nonshooting) war.

They need to make the patches flap like a real flag would in the wind, in order to make it more obvious....
Change the material to something lighter weight and only sew the leading edge. It'd work...

ShelbyGoat
08-19-2008, 10:14
Back in 03/04 (or around there) they authorized us to wear the flags not just on combat tours, but all the time.

Texas357
08-19-2008, 10:22
We sewed them on in '84 for our 6 month tour in the Sinai. No war. All "observe and report".

We sewed them on in '95 for our 12 month tour in Bosnia (and again in '97) and that was a pseudo (nonshooting) war.


Change the material to something lighter weight and only sew the leading edge. It'd work...

Put on a flexible color LCD screen with an animated .gif of a flag waving....


Or, realize that a flag-patch is not a flag...

WIG19
08-19-2008, 13:15
when i worked for the wisconsin dept. of corrections we were issued patches and they were the backwards ones. some of us veterans pointed that out to management but they didn't care.I've had to point that out to folks who wear the US Flag patch for various things, team shirts, etc. Most commonly found in the private sector is the patch that would be properly worn on the left sleeve. It happens alot when folks take the same patch and put it on the right (or both). Sorry, bubba, ya gotta pony up and buy a different patch so it's worn correctly - or don't wear at all.

:patriot:

Texas357
08-19-2008, 13:49
I've had to point that out to folks who wear the US Flag patch for various things, team shirts, etc. Most commonly found in the private sector is the patch that would be properly worn on the left sleeve. It happens alot when folks take the same patch and put it on the right (or both). Sorry, bubba, ya gotta pony up and buy a different patch so it's worn correctly - or don't wear at all.

:patriot:

Surely you can refer us to your source for that information? All I could find is the following:

(i) When displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should be uppermost and to the flag's own right, that is, to the observer's left. When displayed in a window, the flag should be displayed in the same way, with the union or blue field to the left of the observer in the street.

Seems to say that when a flag is displayed against a surface, the blue field should be to the left (for the viewer). There is no provision in the flag code for displaying a backwards flag.

deadday
08-19-2008, 14:07
670-1 was officially changed in 2005 to state that all US Army personnel would wear the flag patch. It was ordered in 2003. Prior to this, 670-1 said the patch was to be worn only during overseas deployment....I was under the impression that it was worn during war-time service, but I was wrong, any time deployed it was worn...





drew

Jeff82
08-19-2008, 19:49
Surely you can refer us to your source for that information? All I could find is the following:



Seems to say that when a flag is displayed against a surface, the blue field should be to the left (for the viewer). There is no provision in the flag code for displaying a backwards flag.

That covers flags. What about the "full-color (or not) U.S. flag cloth replica"? (GJ1981 was very specific for a reason... ) :whistling:

Orvanic
08-19-2008, 20:11
My buddy, Phil, takes this pretty seriously...

http://www.fixourflag.org/backwards.html

Texas357
08-20-2008, 08:57
That covers flags. What about the "full-color (or not) U.S. flag cloth replica"? (GJ1981 was very specific for a reason... ) :whistling:

What part of the flag code would they fall under? The only mention the flag-code makes of replicas is that they are to be worn over the heart.

Jeff82
08-20-2008, 13:33
What part of the flag code would they fall under? The only mention the flag-code makes of replicas is that they are to be worn over the heart.

That's just it. I don't think there is any governing regulation for "patches". "A patch, does not a flag, make."

What you mention above is in reference to the service lapel pin and "should" be worn over the left side, heart.

Custom indicates that when a patch or decal, is placed on a moving object, that it be placed so that the patch or decal looks like it's 'flying' from a staff (or mast) when the object is moving in the direction it most usually moves in.

Try finding that written down somewhere!

As I recall, in my BSA uniform, they had us wearing the flag flying backwards too. (On our right sleeve, blue to the left, as viewed.)

Texas357
08-20-2008, 13:59
That's just it. I don't think there is any governing regulation for "patches". "A patch, does not a flag, make."

What you mention above is in reference to the service lapel pin and "should" be worn over the left side, heart.

But the flag code does say that any image of the flag is itself a flag.

Custom indicates that when a patch or decal, is placed on a moving object, that it be placed so that the patch or decal looks like it's 'flying' from a staff (or mast) when the object is moving in the direction it most usually moves in.

Just because lots of people do it doesn't mean they were right to begin with.
Someone created that "custom," in spite of the fact that most images of the flag always depicted it the correct way. When displayed in a fixed position (not on a flagpole,) it was always shown with the blue field oriented a certain way.

Try finding that written down somewhere!
Oh, I have, and it is always "just because," or "so we aren't retreating."


As I recall, in my BSA uniform, they had us wearing the flag flying backwards too. (On our right sleeve, blue to the left, as viewed.)

deadday
08-20-2008, 14:26
But the flag code does say that any image of the flag is itself a flag.

Just because lots of people do it doesn't mean they were right to begin with.
Someone created that "custom," in spite of the fact that most images of the flag always depicted it the correct way. When displayed in a fixed position (not on a flagpole,) it was always shown with the blue field oriented a certain way.
Oh, I have, and it is always "just because," or "so we aren't retreating."


It is not a 'custom' It is written into Army Regulation 670-1 as I posted above...





drew

Jeff82
08-20-2008, 14:40
But the flag code does say that any image of the flag is itself a flag.I dl'd the code and searched for "image". Can't find it. Can you point me in the right direction?

Just because lots of people do it doesn't mean they were right to begin with.
Someone created that "custom," in spite of the fact that most images of the flag always depicted it the correct way. When displayed in a fixed position (not on a flagpole,) it was always shown with the blue field oriented a certain way.
Oh, I have, and it is always "just because," or "so we aren't retreating." I'm was thinking of something official. Don't think we'll find it.

As far as what is "right" (from http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html): The Flag Code may be fairly tested: 'No disrespect should be shown to the Flag of the United States of America.' Therefore, actions not specifically included in the Code may be deemed acceptable as long as proper respect is shown.

zackwatt
08-20-2008, 14:41
It's like some airplanes, US Flag: Stars Forward.

Jeff82
08-20-2008, 14:41
It is not a 'custom' It is written into Army Regulation 670-1 as I posted above...





drew

That applies to army folks. I'm looking for code that applies to all of us.

Texas357
08-20-2008, 15:15
It is not a 'custom' It is written into Army Regulation 670-1 as I posted above...





drew

And when was it put into the regulation? Was it always there?

It started somewhere, did it not?

GJ1981
08-20-2008, 15:28
AR 670-1 Chapter 28-18 Revised 3 February 2005

http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r670_1.pdf

al_r
08-20-2008, 15:35
I've had to point that out to folks who wear the US Flag patch for various things, team shirts, etc. Most commonly found in the private sector is the patch that would be properly worn on the left sleeve. It happens alot when folks take the same patch and put it on the right (or both). Sorry, bubba, ya gotta pony up and buy a different patch so it's worn correctly - or don't wear at all.

:patriot:

Didn't we have this conversation once upon a time?

deadday
08-20-2008, 16:39
AR 670-1 Chapter 28-18 Revised 3 February 2005

http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r670_1.pdf

The revision states that all Soldiers will wear them now whether deployed or not. The reg has been around since Christ was a Corporal.







drew

b52ace
08-20-2008, 20:29
That applies to army folks. I'm looking for code that applies to all of us.

See if this satisfies what you are looking for -

http://ushistory.org/flag (About 3/4 the way down the page)

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<>Why is the flag sometimes backwards on the side of airplanes, buses, and other vehicles?

Air Force 1 showing the regular flag on the left side and the reverse flag on the right side.The flag decals show the union (the blue area) on the side closer to the front of the plane. On the plane's left, the decal shows the flag with the union at the left, as usual. On the plane's right side, is a "right flag" or "reversed field flag" or "reverse flag," with the union on the right. This is done so that the flag looks as if it is blowing in the wind created by the forward movement. You can see this on cars and trucks as well.

<>What is the proper way to wear a flag patch on one's shoulder sleeve?

To wear our country's flag properly, the field of stars is worn closest to your heart. Further, when worn on the sleeve of a military uniform, the flag should appear to be advancing and not retreating. Thus, if your patch is to be worn on your LEFT sleeve, use a left flag (normal). For patches worn on your RIGHT sleeve, use a "right" or "reversed field" flag.

Since the Flag Rules do not specifically address the positioning of the patch, a decision is left to the discretion of the organization prescribing the wear. Some elect to use the "left" flag on both sleeves. [Note: many states and cities have ordinances pertaining to the use of the flag; you may wish to contact the Attorney General of your state or the City Attorney's office regarding this matter.] If you are planning to wear only one patch, it is recommended that you wear a "left" flag on your left sleeve.

Military guidelines specify that in support of joint or multi-national operations (as in Iraq), the "right" flag is worn on the right sleeve (see picture), 1/4" below the shoulder seam or 1/8" below any required unit patches. (Class A uniform excepted.)

Some people find the "right flag" disrespectful of the flag and some are calling it the "wrong flag." They seek to gain support to encourage a change in the regulations to always use a "left flag" even on a right sleeve.
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