G20 to the rescue in the woods [Archive] - Glock Talk

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mrheythere
07-21-2008, 23:05
Bear story...

I have fished in the presence of bears a number of times in Alaska and Canada, always giving them a lot of room. I usually carry a G20 when I fish in the US, and am well aware of the deficiencies of handgun v. bear. Yet, the G20 is better than nothing and does well against dogs and big cats and meth lab owners. Often I couple it with a can of bear spray.

This weekend a buddy and I are fly fishing for trout. On the hike to the river we see a black bear, so we make a lot of noise and keep walking. After getting to the river and fishing for a few minutes, I hear a tree branch break and I turn around expecting to see a deer. Nope, that big black bear is now 30 feet away. He followed us to the river!

The river was too deep to wade across to the other side. Out comes the G20 from the blade tech holster and I "make big" and shout at the bear, who looks at me and walks back into the brush. I have never known a bear to follow someone.

We promptly move upstream a few hundred yards and it starts to smell like a pack of wet dirty dogs (bear is present warning sign). This bear is persistent. So we pack up and get out of Dodge. We could not relax and fish with our backs to the brush.

I am glad I did not have to shoot at the bear, and was very glad to have been holding a G20 while driving the bear away. Excellent field/woods weapon. I have a Casull but find it very heavy to pack and a bit much for anywhere besides Alaska. 15 rounds of hot 10mm was nice backup.

An interesting part of the story is this took place in Western Washington. One never knows.

TrooperBrian
07-21-2008, 23:11
I was JUST thinking about something like this because a man in Montana was attacked just last night. You'll be better off with a gun, bear spray is just diluted "civilian people spray"...from 10% OC to 5% OC...the only thing it is going to do is piss off the bear.

Ranger.357
07-21-2008, 23:16
Bear story...
I have never known a bear to follow someone.
It depends on how hungry the bear is, and if it has become injured or sick. I haven't heard of too many stories about blacks but a Griz will track you down. I worked with a guy that moved to Alaska and he had to shoot a Grizzly in his living room because it tore through the door of his double wide. He retreated to his bedroom and got his hunting rifle and had to shoot it several times. It died at the end of the hallway leading to his bedroom. A lot of people love bears, I love them as far from me as possible.

mrheythere
07-21-2008, 23:21
I was JUST thinking about something like this because a man in Montana was attacked just last night. You'll be better off with a gun, bear spray is just diluted "civilian people spray"...from 10% OC to 5% OC...the only thing it is going to do is piss off the bear.

Is this the story?

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/jul/18/man-recovering-bear-attack-near-park/

cimpala
07-21-2008, 23:24
Scary :wow::wow:

perado
07-21-2008, 23:30
They say that hikers should carry pepper spray and make noise, such as lacing little bells into their bootlaces.

A sign of bear presence is finding bear dropping. I understand that you can tell bear dropping by checking for little bells and chewed up pepper spray containers.

I think a G20 makes much more sense.

TrooperBrian
07-21-2008, 23:32
Is this the story?

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/jul/18/man-recovering-bear-attack-near-park/
Haha yes that's it...

ljnowell
07-21-2008, 23:42
Maybe a possibility this bear is used to humans in the area and is following waiting for trash or leftovers? Its quite common for people to leave scraps and whatnot, although not adviseable when bears are around for the obviously noted reasons.

mrheythere
07-21-2008, 23:55
Here is an interesting article about having your defense choice accessible.

http://bozemandailychronicle.com/articles/2005/09/16/news/03bearattack.txt

Part to which I refer:
McDonald then began removing the wrist straps from his hiking poles so he could reach the bear spray at his waist. Then the bear attacked, and started working on McDonald's leg.

mrheythere
07-21-2008, 23:57
Maybe a possibility this bear is used to humans in the area and is following waiting for trash or leftovers? Its quite common for people to leave scraps and whatnot, although not adviseable when bears are around for the obviously noted reasons.

The above sounds like a plausible reason.

I have been running a lot searches on Google and this story lends support for your theory.


http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1,1249,670192470,00.html

Ranger.357
07-21-2008, 23:57
I just remeber something else about Grizzlies, I was watching that surving in Alaska series and the guide was saying that they have learned to come running when they hear gunshots, cuz it normally means downed game.

PS..........Don't aim for the head.

mrheythere
07-22-2008, 00:01
PS..........Don't aim for the head.

Why not?

Ranger.357
07-22-2008, 00:05
Why not?

Skulls too thick, won't penetrate the brain. Maybe from the side with a HP rifle, but a shot to the forehead with a handgun will most likely part his scalp only.

3rdgen40
07-22-2008, 04:44
Skulls too thick, won't penetrate the brain. Maybe from the side with a HP rifle, but a shot to the forehead with a handgun will most likely part his scalp only.
+1.........even a high powered rifle bullet can glance off the front of the skull.

kurtiss
07-22-2008, 06:13
Scary stuff. Glad it turned out ok and you didn't have to shoot. Good call on getting out of there. Something wasn't right with the bear, because black bears are usually scared of people and will usually take off at the first sight of a human.

dancingwolf
07-22-2008, 06:18
From your description, it sounds like the bear was stalking you, something black bears usually don't do, but I'm glad all turned out well and you didn't have to shoot.

It must have felt comforting to know you had your GLOCK primed and ready!!

vafish
07-22-2008, 08:51
I agree that it sounds like the bear was stalking you.

Did you report it to the Game Warden?

CanyonMan
07-22-2008, 11:49
Skulls too thick, won't penetrate the brain. Maybe from the side with a HP rifle, but a shot to the forehead with a handgun will most likely part his scalp only.


I agree on the "thick as a brick" skull part. But, to add a tid bit here. It is mostly due to the angle of the skull on a Grizz, and the placement, or area of where the brain is in the skull. Many a hunter has taken a "frontal shot," at a Grizz to the head with high powered rifle, aiming just above, and right between the eyes, only to see the bullet zip right off the skull like a ricochet off a pond. This don't mean you can't do it, but if the head 'must be the target', broad side is best. ;) I know some folks with heads like this. ha.


Good luck to ya.
Now get back out there and go fishin! ;)



CanyonMan

LUVMYSIGP225
07-22-2008, 11:52
Skulls too thick, won't penetrate the brain. Maybe from the side with a HP rifle, but a shot to the forehead with a handgun will most likely part his scalp only.

Mother of god. These things sound like Armored Personnel Carriers more than they sound like wild animals. LOL!!!!

mrheythere
07-22-2008, 16:42
Hmmm. Maybe he was stalking us. Glad it turned out Ok.

revel8
07-22-2008, 16:45
im curious to see a bear-head ricochet video.

Ranger.357
07-22-2008, 21:19
im curious to see a bear-head ricochet video.

Head for Montana, and be sure to take a camera with you. :tongueout:

mrheythere
07-22-2008, 23:05
When you look at the skull, a shot deflection is understandable based on the shape

Ramjet38
08-21-2008, 19:34
Okay, so where do you place a frontal shot with a pistol if that is the only shot you have at a bear charging you??? Am I supposed to guess where it's heart is and try to hit a charging bear in the heart with a measly pistol round? Maybe you suggest spray and pray?
If I had a side shot it would probably be a head or a neck shot, but I don't think the bear is going to pose for me sideways whilst I position myself to get a side shot.

Armchair Commando
08-23-2008, 13:24
You'll be better off with a gun, bear spray is just diluted "civilian people spray"...from 10% OC to 5% OC...the only thing it is going to do is piss off the bear. Don't have any clue what your talking about do you? Bear spray just pisses off bears? You have obviously not been around very many Bears. Spray works and works damn good, http://www.udap.com/ This guy is around only due to Bear Spray, It saved his ass.

Armchair Commando
08-23-2008, 13:27
http://www.udap.com/bearnews.pdf

Armchair Commando
08-23-2008, 13:28
http://www.udap.com/testify.htm#testimonials

Ramjet38
08-23-2008, 17:59
http://www.udap.com/testify.htm#testimonials

nice commercial to buy a product, and they have their place, but I would rather have a firearm instead.

Armchair Commando
08-24-2008, 01:33
nice commercial to buy a product, and they have their place, but I would rather have a firearm instead. It's a nice commercial about a guy getting ripped apart and his buddy with Bear Spray saved his ass. Firearms are only effective 50% of the time, Bear Spray works 92% of the time and Accuracy isn't a real issue with spray. But accuracy is a huge issue with a handgun.

Ramjet38
08-24-2008, 07:48
It's a nice commercial about a guy getting ripped apart and his buddy with Bear Spray saved his ass. Firearms are only effective 50% of the time, Bear Spray works 92% of the time and Accuracy isn't a real issue with spray. But accuracy is a huge issue with a handgun.

So would you leave the handgun at home, and strap on a can of spray instead?

Armchair Commando
08-24-2008, 12:18
So would you leave the handgun at home, and strap on a can of spray instead?
I never carry a handgun when i go bowhunting, Most of my Hunting is done in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan or Canada. I see tons of Bears and not 1 have ever been Aggressive, I did have one at the bottom of my Tree Stand Sniffing at me but after i scared him away he never came back. I carry Spray with me. Without their Eyes and Senses a Bear is helpless pretty much, With a handgun you would be EXTREMELY LUCKY TO EVEN HIT THE BEAR, LET ALONE STOP IT. Saying you can shoot a charging bear on a internet forum is 1 thing, But in real life when all you see are Teeth and Claws moving at you at a rate of 35 Mph it's a totally different scenario.

Ramjet38
08-24-2008, 13:53
I never carry a handgun when i go bowhunting, Most of my Hunting is done in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan or Canada. I see tons of Bears and not 1 have ever been Aggressive, I did have one at the bottom of my Tree Stand Sniffing at me but after i scared him away he never came back. I carry Spray with me. Without their Eyes and Senses a Bear is helpless pretty much, With a handgun you would be EXTREMELY LUCKY TO EVEN HIT THE BEAR, LET ALONE STOP IT. Saying you can shoot a charging bear on a internet forum is 1 thing, But in real life when all you see are Teeth and Claws moving at you at a rate of 35 Mph it's a totally different scenario.


I can't disagree with you on any of that. Talkin' and doin', is two different things. Is it legal to carry a firearm when bowhunting in Michigan?

BManoftheyear
09-05-2008, 16:04
I would think that with the gun you would have a better chance.I know you aren't going to get the perfect side shot on the bear.
I don't know jack about bears but I do know that if all I had was my gun and 2 mags that is 34 bulets that I am gonna shoot as fast as possible and hope for the best

Redhawk
09-12-2008, 10:48
Scary stuff. Glad it turned out ok and you didn't have to shoot. Good call on getting out of there. Something wasn't right with the bear, because black bears are usually scared of people and will usually take off at the first sight of a human.

Good point. I have seen alot of bears in the area I live. Every one I have seen has been running away from me.

Ak.Hiker
09-13-2008, 00:50
Bears can move pretty fast. Having the time to fire an entire hi cap magazine during a charge would be pretty unusual. Having the time to reload would be just about impossible. I had a brown bear come running up to the trail from a river to check me out. He was damn fast is all I have to say. I did have time to pull my 44 Magnum but really one shot would have been all I could have gotten off if he did not stop. I was pretty happy to get back to my car on that hike.

deadday
09-13-2008, 01:09
I would think that with the gun you would have a better chance.I know you aren't going to get the perfect side shot on the bear.
I don't know jack about bears but I do know that if all I had was my gun and 2 mags that is 34 bulets that I am gonna shoot as fast as possible and hope for the best

Problem there is you're assuming you will be able to get more than the first shot off....






drew

filthy infidel
09-27-2008, 19:23
I have mountainbiked in the Blue Ridge mountains for years. I saw bear for the first time two years ago. A buddy and I were cruising (slowly) down doubletrack in Roanoke, Va toward our away team from our behind team (fixing a mechanical). A black bear cub ambled across our path fifty feet ahead. We stopped and ducked low. Another followed a few seconds later. I tried to pull my cellphone for a pic. My buddy and I stared at each other, in incredulity. Then the third cub appeared. I was terrified and wondering where the hell the mother was. The last cub looked up at us, and took several steps towards us before running off.

I never got a chance to take a photo, and wish to hell that I'd had some kind of handgun on me, despite the fact that we were to cover twenty five miles in the mountains that day.

Dogbite
10-02-2008, 17:23
Yeah, on the bear spray issue. There are many people who can fight through pepper spray, and many bears that have mauled people using it. I'm from Alaska, and have had much bear experience. Don'T trust just pepper spray ever. Never go unarmed in bear country. I have run into bears that looked at me and ran away, and I have ran into bears that are mean, and wont go away. G20 is better than nothing, and you seem to know about that, so I wont go into caliber selection.

Klebanoff
10-03-2008, 13:19
I don't know if anyone's touched on this, but there are a few--admittedly, very few--documented instances of Black Bears following humans for the express purpose of killing and eating them. This was the subject of a program that aired (I think) on the Discovery Channel about a decade ago.

There was one incident where a Black Bear killed and partially ate a husband and wife camping on the Canadian side of the Great Lakes. A couple other encounters involved Black Bears who deliberately followed hikers over considerable distances, evidently sizing them up and refusing to be deterred by shouting and rock throwing. One of them involved a man who eventually made it back to his truck and drove away. In another case the bear attacked the hiker but was killed by the man with the aid of his dog and a large hunting knife.

According to the show the culprits were invariably male bears less than three or four years old.

The behavior you describe sounds frightening similar.

That being said, while I know no handgun (except the super magnums) is generally suggested for bear defense, at least when it comes to Grizzlies, I would have felt well protected packing my G20 in your shoes. In fact, if only Black Bears are involved, I submit the G20 is ideal protection. Use hot loaded, heavy solid bullets. With 15 +1 rounds I wouldn't feel under gunned in the least. In my experience Black Bears are only slightly more difficult to kill than your average deer.

Dalton Wayne
10-03-2008, 13:23
Where I hunt here in Florida there is a ton of black bear, I'm not to worried because I have a high powered rifle with me but still I carry a Glock 21 in the woods just in case, the bear here are not to huge but I still would not want to mess with one.

Ak.Hiker
10-03-2008, 22:57
Black bears have been known to stalk hikers. One of my co workers had one attack his dog as he was out walking with his family. He said he looked up and the bear was just staring at him. It would not run off. When the bear made a move for them their dog fought with the bear and the dog was killed. They were lucky to make it home. I will never forget a couple that had a problem bear at the cabin they were staying in. The husband went for help and when he was gone the bear made it onto the roof of the cabin where his wife was standing and it killed her. She was not armed. I think he only had a .22 revolver and took it with him on his hike out to get some help. I ran across two black bears this summer when hiking. The first one ran off like a rabbit. The second one was not to concerned with me but did not run off. For me not knowing how a bear or any other wild animal will react to me when in the woods is a good reason to carry a powerful handgun loaded with bullets that will offer deep penetration if needed. I never hike in Alaska with out either a handgun or light weight rifle. This spring two domestic dogs got pretty pissed at me when I was on a trail. They were after a rabbit and not to happy that I was standing right in the middle of the path they wanted to cross. I was glad I had my 357 Magnum with me on that hike. Both dogs decided to run off but I was still glad to have the handgun.

Ramjet38
10-04-2008, 17:48
I just came back from a trout fishing trip in New Mexico. Didn't have any pepper perfume to adorn any bears, but I did have my G20 loaded with 15 rounds of Double Tap 200gr Hornady XTP-HP.
I worry more about large kitty's than bears. Whilst I was there a man was attacked in Taos Ski Valley by a Mountain Lion. He hit him upside the head with a rock when the cat knocked him over and the cat ran off. The man is alright but still suffered cuts to warrant a trip to the hospital.

23skidoo
10-04-2008, 22:18
Okay, so where do you place a frontal shot with a pistol if that is the only shot you have at a bear charging you??? Am I supposed to guess where it's heart is and try to hit a charging bear in the heart with a measly pistol round? Maybe you suggest spray and pray?
If I had a side shot it would probably be a head or a neck shot, but I don't think the bear is going to pose for me sideways whilst I position myself to get a side shot.


Aim for the eye. Quickest, easiest path into the brain. There's no bone behind it.

noway
10-05-2008, 01:04
Aim for the eye. Quickest, easiest path into the brain. There's no bone behind it.

and do you thinking you could hit a charging bear in the EYE while it charging you at what 25mph?

:upeyes:

instead of relying on luck or a almost near impossible task, get something that would immediately stop the attack and will slow and stop the bear.

23skidoo
10-05-2008, 03:00
and do you thinking you could hit a charging bear in the EYE while it charging you at what 25mph?

:upeyes:

instead of relying on luck or a almost near impossible task, get something that would immediately stop the attack and will slow and stop the bear.


If we're ever hunting together in bear country and a bear charges us; you can lay down and stick an apple in your mouth while I empty my magazine.:rofl:

Klebanoff
10-05-2008, 17:05
If we're ever hunting together in bear country and a bear charges us; you can lay down and stick an apple in your mouth while I empty my magazine.:rofl:

You aren't seriously suggesting a hand gunner defending himself against a bear bet his life on hitting the beast in the eye?! This is a joke? Right?

After all, a typical Black Bear stands no more than 3 feet at the shoulder. This should afford a standing human plenty of opportunity for shots aimed at the shoulder/spine/neck area, even if he is coming straight at ya. Certainly better than counting on hitting a quarter sized target bouncing along at 30 mph to rip your guts out!

23skidoo
10-06-2008, 00:04
Black bear doesn't have a head like a deer; huge head. Aim small, miss small. If you're shooting at his eye and you miss you've got a chance of hitting him in the nose, mouth, throat, etc. If you do happen to put one in his eye, game over.


I was specifically responding to Ramjet 38's question: where to shoot a bear in the head with a pistol and I think we all can agree you're not going to get penetration if you hit him in the forehead with a pistol round.

noway
10-06-2008, 02:57
Black bear doesn't have a head like a deer; huge head. Aim small, miss small. If you're shooting at his eye and you miss you've got a chance of hitting him in the nose, mouth, throat, etc. If you do happen to put one in his eye, game over.


I was specifically responding to Ramjet 38's question: where to shoot a bear in the head with a pistol and I think we all can agree you're not going to get penetration if you hit him in the forehead with a pistol round.

And you seriously expect to beable to do this in a high stress encounter with an animal that can run at speeds up to 25mph or more in a charge and hit him/her in the head and in the EYE ? :upeyes: with a handgun ? :upeyes::upeyes:

Get for real, stop believing movies scene from hollywood ;)

87'vette
10-06-2008, 21:26
For you guys to consider.
Think you still have enough time?
WOW!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMbnmLLnsfw