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Cochese
08-14-2008, 00:47
http://www.moto-station.com/ttesimages/motodivers/nouveautes2008/Kawasaki_Ninja_250R_2008_st3pz.jpg

I had my eye on a new Ninja 250R. I was looking into getting a 2008 but they were impossible to find in black. They canceled the rest of the 2008's as of the first of August anyway. They are probably re-VINing everything to 2009 in their grasp while they catch up with production.

The dealership felt bad about my 2008 getting canceled so they gave me first dibbs on the first '09 into the shop. I told them if it ain't black, I don't want it.

I guess the price is going up from $3499 to $3999 due to the demand. :upeyes:

My contract with the dealership is for $3499 so I'm curious to see how this plays out. Me thinks they'll be letting go a zero gross deal on this one. I built a fender eliminator into the deal as well.

Other planned mods are a re-jet and full header back exhaust. I'm also adding saddle bags and a tail bag for my first big trip. I already have a pretty nice tank bag, and coat and helmets are purchased. I have 3k in the bank and 2-3 more pay periods before it lands.

I can't wait!

Anyone here have a new 2fiddy? I know I've seen SOMEONE post pics of a nice black one!

fnfalman
08-14-2008, 13:14
It's a pretty fun ride. The suspension and braking systems are a lot better sorted than the previous generation. But power is down and weight is up though, so rejet, exhaust, air filter/airbox mod is a must.

Cochese
08-14-2008, 13:42
Power is down?

http://www.yoshimura-rd.com/images/product/large/3524_3_.jpg

14 foot pounds at the wheel!

I know they weight a bit more, but as I understand it, the additional power makes up for it. At any rate, re-jet, full header back exhaust and filter are first on the list. I'm wiring in a battery charge cable as well and a rear fender eliminator kit goes on at the dealer.

Should be set after that. The exhaust and intake/rejet should actually increase mileage if I stay out of the throttle, no?

fnfalman
08-15-2008, 08:28
The exhaust and intake/rejet should actually increase mileage if I stay out of the throttle, no?

No. You're rejetting the bike to run richer and smoother than the lean settings from the factory. Fuel consumption will go up, but I seriously doubt by much. But at least you will have a bike that runs smoother and less hot.

My niece's bike is from the previous generation. It has a 2-in-1 Yoshimura exhaust coupled with rejet kit, open air box and K&N filter. That mutha sounds like a magnumized popcorn machine coming down the street. SWEET!

oldgraywolf
08-15-2008, 19:31
[img]I'm also adding saddle bags and a tail bag for my first big trip. I already have a pretty nice tank bag, and coat and helmets are purchased.

All that just to go a few miles down the road to Denver for the convention????? :wavey:

Seriously, have a lot of fun and ride smart.

michael t
08-15-2008, 21:18
Think I want something a little bigger for a trip 500 at least. That sucker be buzzing about 7500 on road. Their nice and my daugthers all want one .But they aren't going on trips Just school and after school jobs. 15, 20 miles a day.
Why not a used bike with a little more motor

Cochese
08-16-2008, 02:34
No. You're rejetting the bike to run richer and smoother than the lean settings from the factory. Fuel consumption will go up, but I seriously doubt by much. But at least you will have a bike that runs smoother and less hot.

My niece's bike is from the previous generation. It has a 2-in-1 Yoshimura exhaust coupled with rejet kit, open air box and K&N filter. That mutha sounds like a magnumized popcorn machine coming down the street. SWEET!

:rofl:

Nice. Thanks for the info. I figured what I read about better mileage out of a high flow exhaust/air box was B.S.

All that just to go a few miles down the road to Denver for the convention????? :wavey:

Seriously, have a lot of fun and ride smart.

:cheers:

Think I want something a little bigger for a trip 500 at least. That sucker be buzzing about 7500 on road. Their nice and my daugthers all want one .But they aren't going on trips Just school and after school jobs. 15, 20 miles a day.
Why not a used bike with a little more motor

I went from a Ninja EX 500 to a GSXR 750 to an R1 and now I'm back full circle. I want the mileage out of the 250. The longest trip I'd make is TX from CO. I've done it on an EX 500. I'd be willing to on the new gen 250R after reading some of the distance ride stories on 2fiddy, ninja250.org, etc.

:thumbsup:

CBennett
08-16-2008, 18:21
250 is a good pick, good MPG and will do what you need it to do. I got a 1999 Ninja 250 and could have upgraded LONG ago..but why do I need a bike with more power..I drive the speed limit(55-72 give or take in my areas I travel) and it will do that EASILY...Ive never really understood the "you need more bike/motor/power" thing..I keep saying why do I need more lol and just keep riding the 250 that gets better MPG than the "bigger power" bike and does everything I need it to do.e

Armchair Commando
08-16-2008, 18:39
250 is a good pick, good MPG and will do what you need it to do. I got a 1999 Ninja 250 and could have upgraded LONG ago..but why do I need a bike with more power..I drive the speed limit(55-72 give or take in my areas I travel) and it will do that EASILY...Ive never really understood the "you need more bike/motor/power" thing..I keep saying why do I need more lol and just keep riding the 250 that gets better MPG than the "bigger power" bike and does everything I need it to do.e
That is the major problem nowadays, You get some Young and Dumb kids who know nothing about riding a Motorcycle and the First thing they get is a Hayabusa, Then you read about them all the time getting killed cause their In-Experience catches up with them.

fnfalman
08-18-2008, 08:02
It also kills me that people are recommending 600-cc watercooled inline four motorcycles as "starter bikes". These motorcycles put out 100+ HP at the rear wheel, yet somehow people think that it's a good idea to start out on these bikes. Bikes are getting faster as the years go by the people aren't born with better riding skills.

Cochese
08-19-2008, 21:46
As I said, I started on a large bike (riding my friends liter bike) but I suppose with all of the squids around, I am an exception to the rule (of squids!).

CBennett
08-20-2008, 18:23
As I said, I started on a large bike (riding my friends liter bike) but I suppose with all of the squids around, I am an exception to the rule (of squids!).

yes you would be the exception then..thats a HORRIBLE bike to start on. But then again the 2 kids down the street that both have R6's and ride with shorts no shirt and flip flops wonder why I have a 250..I say I dont need anything more they honestly just cant comprehend that I dont want to or need to go over 100MPH, have 50 more HP than I will ever need in a bike, and also wonder why I actually wear "gear" when I ride...

bac1023
08-20-2008, 19:01
They are good starter bikes.

Lewsid 13
08-21-2008, 18:24
yes you would be the exception then..thats a HORRIBLE bike to start on. But then again the 2 kids down the street that both have R6's and ride with shorts no shirt and flip flops wonder why I have a 250..I say I dont need anything more they honestly just cant comprehend that I dont want to or need to go over 100MPH, have 50 more HP than I will ever need in a bike, and also wonder why I actually wear "gear" when I ride... If you are happy with your 250R, good for you. But, I find your statement ("I say I dont need anything more they honestly just cant comprehend that I dont want to or need to go over 100MPH, have 50 more HP than I will ever need in a bike") a bit narrow.

The need for additional horsepower is not used JUST to travel at excessive rates of speed. Yes, it is for that too, which I quite enjoy might I add. But, horsepower can come in handy in situations when you may need it to get you out of a jam, IE. a car cuts you off and you need some ponies for some quick evasive exceleration.

I don't care what you say, a 250 is far short of the horsepower required to get you out of a jam at highway speeds. In fact, I find a 600 such as the R6 you mentioned to be enferior in the horsepower department as well when it comes down to raw torque. To get the power you need at highway speeds out of a 600, you have to downshift three of four gears to get any real horsepower......

.....and that, my friends is why I ride an R1.

and, for that person who rode a ninja 250 across the country and enjoyed it. You are an anomoly, because I don't see anything enjoyable about that at all. Cheers!

Cochese
08-21-2008, 18:53
We wouldn't want to be considered Inferior!

I rode an R1, a GSXR750 and an EX500, since 1997. I'm familiar with the "you need TONS of getaway power!!!" Kool-Aid argument.

Having been through the riding schools I've been through and riding the bikes I've ridden (including a 2006 Road King at work) a lot of defensive riding is attributed to proper braking, swerving and gear selection.

It's not all about power. And I'd rather ride across country on a 250 Ninja than hunched over a stock R1 any day, from experience.

:wavey:


If you are happy with your 250R, good for you. But, I find your statement ("I say I dont need anything more they honestly just cant comprehend that I dont want to or need to go over 100MPH, have 50 more HP than I will ever need in a bike") a bit narrow.

The need for additional horsepower is not used JUST to travel at excessive rates of speed. Yes, it is for that too, which I quite enjoy might I add. But, horsepower can come in handy in situations when you may need it to get you out of a jam, IE. a car cuts you off and you need some ponies for some quick evasive exceleration.

I don't care what you say, a 250 is far short of the horsepower required to get you out of a jam at highway speeds. In fact, I find a 600 such as the R6 you mentioned to be enferior in the horsepower department as well when it comes down to raw torque. To get the power you need at highway speeds out of a 600, you have to downshift three of four gears to get any real horsepower......

.....and that, my friends is why I ride an R1.

and, for that person who rode a ninja 250 across the country and enjoyed it. You are an anomoly, because I don't see anything enjoyable about that at all. Cheers!

Lewsid 13
08-21-2008, 20:33
We wouldn't want to be considered Inferior!

I rode an R1, a GSXR750 and an EX500, since 1997. I'm familiar with the "you need TONS of getaway power!!!" Kool-Aid argument.

Having been through the riding schools I've been through and riding the bikes I've ridden (including a 2006 Road King at work) a lot of defensive riding is attributed to proper braking, swerving and gear selection.

It's not all about power. And I'd rather ride across country on a 250 Ninja than hunched over a stock R1 any day, from experience.

:wavey: I in no way referred to anyone riding a 250 or a 600 as inferior. I was referring to the power available in 6th or top gear of a smaller displacement motorcycle at highway speeds as the culprit of inferiority. Who cruises on the highway in 2nd gear?

Yes, I too have been around the block as pertaining to saddle time and bike selection, and I agree that "a lot of defensive riding is attributed to proper braking, swerving and gear selection.". But, ALL ELSE being equal, I will take the horsepower every time.

As far as the cross country riding goes, I could never imagine doing it on ANY sportbike, regardless of displacement, and that includes my faithful R1 :wavey:

CBennett
08-25-2008, 19:02
If you are happy with your 250R, good for you. But, I find your statement ("I say I dont need anything more they honestly just cant comprehend that I dont want to or need to go over 100MPH, have 50 more HP than I will ever need in a bike") a bit narrow.

The need for additional horsepower is not used JUST to travel at excessive rates of speed. Yes, it is for that too, which I quite enjoy might I add. But, horsepower can come in handy in situations when you may need it to get you out of a jam, IE. a car cuts you off and you need some ponies for some quick evasive exceleration.

I don't care what you say, a 250 is far short of the horsepower required to get you out of a jam at highway speeds. In fact, I find a 600 such as the R6 you mentioned to be enferior in the horsepower department as well when it comes down to raw torque. To get the power you need at highway speeds out of a 600, you have to downshift three of four gears to get any real horsepower......

.....and that, my friends is why I ride an R1.

and, for that person who rode a ninja 250 across the country and enjoyed it. You are an anomoly, because I don't see anything enjoyable about that at all. Cheers!


we can agree to disagree, no biggie. and I KNOW I dont need anything bigger than a 500..so if/when I upgrade it will be from the 1999 Ninja 250 I have to a newer Ninja 250 OR a Ninja 500 or a Suzuki GS 500F/E..no need for a 600+ . Just no need for a high HP bike for what I ride a Motorcycle for and thats simply because it gets 70+ MPG compared to my cars 28 MPG..im not in it for speed, or corner carving, just commuting and the occasional day off ride..

fnfalman
08-26-2008, 18:04
im not in it for speed, or corner carving
:wow::crying::steamed::faint:

What?

CBennett
08-26-2008, 19:52
No need, no want, thats just not what I got a bike for. for me its just a glorified scooter :) . And to be honest if I did not have so many hilly areas to go over(if my job was in town) id probably have a scooter instead but the 250 is just so much cooler :). Seen too many friends with bikes get hurt(some seriously) doing all the high speed corner carving stuff ..but NONE of my friends with bikes mysteriously have been hurt just riding to and from work . So I am just not interested in something that adds just that much more danger into a equation thats already more dangerous(than driving a car) already.

fnfalman
08-27-2008, 07:03
No need, no want, thats just not what I got a bike for. for me its just a glorified scooter :) . And to be honest if I did not have so many hilly areas to go over(if my job was in town) id probably have a scooter instead but the 250 is just so much cooler :)

You DO know that they make 200-250 cc scooters, right?

BTW, sorry to disappoint you but the Ninjette isn't cooler than a scooter. Chicks dig scooters. I'll bet that had you bought this scooter, you would have to fight off chicks dropping their panties for you.:tongueout:

http://www.moto-station.com/ttesimages/motodivers/nouveautes2005/Vespa_250_GTS_st8pz.jpg

CBennett
08-28-2008, 18:41
You DO know that they make 200-250 cc scooters, right?

BTW, sorry to disappoint you but the Ninjette isn't cooler than a scooter. Chicks dig scooters. I'll bet that had you bought this scooter, you would have to fight off chicks dropping their panties for you.:tongueout:

http://www.moto-station.com/ttesimages/motodivers/nouveautes2005/Vespa_250_GTS_st8pz.jpg


LoL we can agree to disagree on that also lol :) I don't care what chicks think im married and got over that aspect of my life years ago :) Id take the 250 over any scooter :) although if I lived in a city and worked in town id probably get a scooter !

J.R. Bob Dobbs
08-28-2008, 21:18
:rofl: Yeah, but upon closer inspection, they just might not be chicks after-all :wow: :wow:

Cochese
09-03-2008, 18:03
Got a call from the stealership today. The said they got a call from the rep today who offered them one pre-release. They called to tell me they demanded a black one, that it should be in in a few days and that.... ...it's mine. :supergrin:

Pics will be forthcoming. They didn't mention a price increase, but if they add $500 to the sticker, I'm walking out with nothing less than some nice gloves, a battery charging system and a stand for the garage. ;)

PeterJasonMN
09-11-2008, 22:17
Got a call from the stealership today. The said they got a call from the rep today who offered them one pre-release. They called to tell me they demanded a black one, that it should be in in a few days and that.... ...it's mine. :supergrin:

Pics will be forthcoming. They didn't mention a price increase, but if they add $500 to the sticker, I'm walking out with nothing less than some nice gloves, a battery charging system and a stand for the garage. ;)


Dude, you have guns and a 40mikemike LL grenade launcher. You're not paying $500 extra.

oldgraywolf
09-14-2008, 18:08
Dude, you have guns and a 40mikemike LL grenade launcher. You're not paying $500 extra.

All he has to do is show up in uniform and it'll be a freebie. Don'tcha know cops don't pay for anything?

:rofl:

Have fun, Cheesy!

modestglock26
09-30-2008, 10:00
I had one of the new Ninja 250r's and loved it. Here is the only downfall with the new Ninja's...they are not as fuel efficient as the older models.

I ride mainly backroads 45-55mph and occasionally I get on the Hwy at 65-75mph. I was only seeing about 55mpg out of the Ninja. I was not redlining it or beating it up, it just had to work harder at those speeds.

My 2002 SV650s gets me 60mpg every tank. The added low end grunt on the SV really makes riding around town more enjoyable, and I don't have to be in 6th gear all the time. On the Ninja, I would be in 6th gear for anything over 35mph.

Still, the new Ninja's look awesome. Mine was all black, and I'm thinking the next one might be repainted white.

Cochese
12-06-2008, 18:45
Finally!

Took forever for my dealer to get one. I got it for $250 under sticker and had them "throw in" a fender eliminator and Icon gloves. :supergrin:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j258/imzadi930/utf-8BbmluamEuanBn.jpg

Gonzoso
12-06-2008, 21:04
That's a pretty bike. I thought about one of them but then I found a deal I couldn't refuse.

I got a 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 with 10k miles, mint condition with saddlebags, a helmet and riding jacket that fit me. And a custom seat and pipes, for 2k. IT gets less to the gallon but I love that machine.

Have lots of fun on it man and keep the rubber side down.

I also think I might be a bit heavy for a small bike like that as I weigh 220 pounds and often times carry luggage or a loaded bookbag.

MeefZah
12-06-2008, 21:13
Your picture makes my brain hurt.

The Ninja 250 is a sweet bike, highly underappreciated until only recently (with $4/gal gas).

Aren't you out west, I wanna say Colorado? Didn't want a dual sport, huh? I think I'd be tearing it up out there with a 250 trailee, myself.

Congrats.

Cochese
12-08-2008, 10:59
That's a pretty bike. I thought about one of them but then I found a deal I couldn't refuse.

I got a 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 with 10k miles, mint condition with saddlebags, a helmet and riding jacket that fit me. And a custom seat and pipes, for 2k. IT gets less to the gallon but I love that machine.

Have lots of fun on it man and keep the rubber side down.

I also think I might be a bit heavy for a small bike like that as I weigh 220 pounds and often times carry luggage or a loaded bookbag.

Thank you!

Yeah, I'm about 215 so I'm right at the weight limit for this thing. In fact, I may end up replacing the rear suspension to accommodate my ass.

I can't wait to ride it!

Your picture makes my brain hurt.

The Ninja 250 is a sweet bike, highly underappreciated until only recently (with $4/gal gas).

Aren't you out west, I wanna say Colorado? Didn't want a dual sport, huh? I think I'd be tearing it up out there with a 250 trailee, myself.

Congrats.

Yeah, Denver metro area. I thought about a dual-sport/motard... I even looked at a VStrom 650 but in the end I fell in love with the ninjette.

I had a EX500 in the 90's. This is kind of a throw back for me. :supergrin:

KIDCOP
12-08-2008, 19:22
Congrats.....I know you have been drooling over a 2 fiffty like I've been drooling over a C14.

Mines on order but I have to what for the birds to start chirping again and the snow and cold to go away before I start riding much. I can always sit on it in the garage and drink beer I gues.

MedicOni
12-08-2008, 21:26
Grats! I've got an 07 -6R and am drooling over the new Monster edition -6R... or the new 650R (I had the original 650R that was available, before it was stolen)

fnfalman
12-09-2008, 14:39
I just bought a "budget bike" myself: Aprilia RS125. It's not street legal...yet. The dealership was kind enough to pull mine out of the line-up for the photo.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/fnfalman/RS125/RS125Photo2.jpg

Cochese
12-10-2008, 17:53
Congrats.....I know you have been drooling over a 2 fiffty like I've been drooling over a C14.

Mines on order but I have to what for the birds to start chirping again and the snow and cold to go away before I start riding much. I can always sit on it in the garage and drink beer I gues.

Amen! :cheers:

Maybe I'll see ya out here again when your puttin' miles on it! :supergrin:

Grats! I've got an 07 -6R and am drooling over the new Monster edition -6R... or the new 650R (I had the original 650R that was available, before it was stolen)

Thanks!

I looked long and hard at a 650R. If they came in flat black there would be one in the garage.

I just bought a "budget bike" myself: Aprilia RS125. It's not street legal...yet. The dealership was kind enough to pull mine out of the line-up for the photo.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/fnfalman/RS125/RS125Photo2.jpg

Falman... as usual, you don't dissapoint. ;)

Have fun!

Cochese
12-10-2008, 17:55
Oh, and the driver finally dropped it off. :supergrin:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j258/imzadi930/IMG00029-20081210-1608.jpg

I went out and put 7.4 miles on it...

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j258/imzadi930/IMG00030-20081210-1609.jpg

Even though its a little... um... cold outside.

:shocked:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j258/imzadi930/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMzMtMjAwODEyMTAtMTY0M.jpg


Sorry about the damn sideways pics. I haven't figured out the latest Blackberry quite yet.

MedicOni
12-10-2008, 21:44
I just bought a "budget bike" myself: Aprilia RS125. It's not street legal...yet. The dealership was kind enough to pull mine out of the line-up for the photo.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/fnfalman/RS125/RS125Photo2.jpg
You buy that in NM or Cali? If in NM, where? I'm still trying to find an Aprillia dealer for street out here

fnfalman
12-11-2008, 08:52
You buy that in NM or Cali? If in NM, where? I'm still trying to find an Aprillia dealer for street out here

I'm buying that from AF1 Racing in New Braunfels, Texas.

The only Aprilia dealer I know of in New Mexico was Desert Green in Albuquerque. They sell John Deere stuff with Aprilia scooters & motos on the side, but I don't know if they're still an Aprilia dealership.

There is only ONE shipment of 150-ea RS125 and if a dealer hadn't gotten in the order yet, they won't get it. AF1 bought a bunch as shown in that picture of mine. Vespa of San Diego also bought a bunch.

So, if you were to want one of these, then you gonna have to buy out of state. At least with New Mexico's liberal registration policy, with working lights & signals, they'll let you register pretty much anything for the streets. California DMV will not register these for the streets.

But this bike, in derestricted mode, puts out a few more horsies than the Ninjette and about 100-lbs lighter. It should be fast enough for the freeway.

MedicOni
12-11-2008, 09:04
I'm buying that from AF1 Racing in New Braunfels, Texas.

The only Aprilia dealer I know of in New Mexico was Desert Green in Albuquerque. They sell John Deere stuff with Aprilia scooters & motos on the side, but I don't know if they're still an Aprilia dealership.

There is only ONE shipment of 150-ea RS125 and if a dealer hadn't gotten in the order yet, they won't get it. AF1 bought a bunch as shown in that picture of mine. Vespa of San Diego also bought a bunch.

So, if you were to want one of these, then you gonna have to buy out of state. At least with New Mexico's liberal registration policy, with working lights & signals, they'll let you register pretty much anything for the streets. California DMV will not register these for the streets.

But this bike, in derestricted mode, puts out a few more horsies than the Ninjette and about 100-lbs lighter. It should be fast enough for the freeway.
I'll have to check that place out... it's near Jefferson on I-25 I think, if so they do still have the sign up for Aprilia. And I'm not thinking street, I'm thinking road race at Sandia :D

fnfalman
12-11-2008, 15:39
I'll have to check that place out... it's near Jefferson on I-25 I think, if so they do still have the sign up for Aprilia. And I'm not thinking street, I'm thinking road race at Sandia :D

That's exactly the place.

Road racing the RS125 at Sandia track is going to be tough for that little sucker. Assuming that you get one in the best trim, with minor tunings from AF1, it'll put out, say, 30-HP (to be generous because these bikes come derestricted), when figuring in the altitude of Albuquerque, you might be down to 20-HP.

Now, if you were to putt-putt it up to the top of the Sandia Peak and then haul ass down...:wow:

KIDCOP
12-12-2008, 01:48
Cochese, Dang I read my last post. I must of been half asleep. Yes sir, I think we could plan on a little ride this comming summer.

I had to confess to the wife today the Connie was coming....I guess I've been in the dog house fer no reason.

AngryBassets
12-23-2008, 22:51
I've never even ridden a moped, but for some reason just HAD to have a scooter. I wound up getting a 2005 Genuine Stella (with SEVEN miles on it, for HALF the price of a new one) in November. It's now got 55 miles on.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn192/TacticalFats/Scooter/1215082157.jpg

I talked to a few dealers, and they all tried to sell me on twist-in-go's but I really liked the Utilitarian Stella (basically an slightly improved-upon Vespa PX).

Now that I am not absoloutely terrified of riding it (although I still haven't left my neighborhood or hit 40 mph on it), I want a Ninja like Cheesey's. Or maybe a BMW R1200GS Adventure. You know, start simple.

EDIT: lol @ overtired idiot hijacking thread about a real motorcycle.

Cochese
12-23-2008, 22:57
I've never even ridden a moped, but for some reason just HAD to have a scooter. I wound up getting a 2005 Genuine Stella (with SEVEN miles on it, for HALF the price of a new one) in November. It's now got 55 miles on.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn192/TacticalFats/Scooter/1215082157.jpg

I talked to a few dealers, and they all tried to sell me on twist-in-go's but I really liked the Utilitarian Stella (basically an slightly improved-upon Vespa PX).

Now that I am not absoloutely terrified of riding it (although I still haven't left my neighborhood or hit 40 mph on it), I want a Ninja like Cheesey's. Or maybe a BMW R1200GS Adventure. You know, start simple.

EDIT: lol @ overtired idiot hijacking thread about a real motorcycle.

:rofl:

You need a Ninja 250! They are sick. Now I'm blowing all my cash on mods!

:supergrin: