The Glock Talk House

[Deradius]

I propose the following thought exercise, based on passive101's apartment thread:

Let's construct a Glock Talk house, with the primary aim being the exchange of security ideas for the house. Let's set the upper limit at 3,000 square feet.

The following rules should apply:

1.) The house must appear to be a normal neighborhood home from the outside. Security problems must be solved with a tasteful aesthetic.
2.) The house must be fire safe - if there is a fire, the occupants must be able to exit with due safety. (Windows, in particular, must be 'escapeable' from the inside, but safe from the outside!)
3.) The house must be as secure as possible from intruders, must look like a "hard target" to savvy bad guys, and must have a layout conducive to home defense.
4.) The house must be affordable by a middle class family earning an average middle class income. Assume a master bedroom, and bedrooms for any children.
5.) All products and reinforcements must be real, with the product and company name listed for those who want to avail themselves of the resource indicated. URLs may also be helpful.

Valid areas to discuss:

1.) Door security. What types of doors? What types of locks? What types of door jambs?
2.) Window security. What types of windows? What types of frames? How do we have windows that are both resistant to attack but aesthetically tasteful?
3.) Bedroom security. What types of doors and windows? Any special measures?
4.) Home electronic security measures. Light timers? Home security systems? Intercoms? Video security?
5.) Lighting. How should lighting be controlled? What sorts of lights should be on the interior and exterior of the property?
6.) Landscaping. How should the house and property be laid out? Where should it be located? (Urban? Rural? Suburban?)
7.) Firearms. What types of firearms? Where should these be kept? In what sorts of safes? Remember, speed of access vs. security must be dealt with.
8.) Home layout. How many floors? Why? Hallyways or not? What is the most tactically sound home layout?
9.) Dogs - AZ DBLTRBL
10.) Anything else you can think of.


--

I will do my best to keep the first post updates as the thread evolves.

[NYC Drew]

Shouldn't this be in Tactics and Training or the Survival/Preparedness Forum?

'Drew

[Deradius]

Shouldn't this be in Tactics and Training or the Survival/Preparedness Forum?

'Drew

Good point, Drew. My fault. I'm terrible at new threads, and try not to make them very often. I just thought it would be good to swat this around. If enough folks more versed than myself post here, we could end up with a good resource for folks looking to beef up home security.

The discussion of an actual physical house doesn't have a lot to do with Tactics and Training.

I suppose it would fall more appropriately under preparedness than anywhere else, but the Survival and Preparedness forum says "extreme situations", so I was thinking that would have more to do with TEOTWAWKI or SHTF as opposed to home construction.

:dunno:

[costanza187]

I was expecting this to be a thread about a new reality show. Now there's an idea!!!

I would imagine there would be a lot of Remington 870's as the primary defense weapon, and MAYBE even a few GLOCKS... just a wild guess.

[ClydeG19]

http://www.shipmentoffail.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/housefail.jpg

[PlaneJane]

Shouldn't this be in Tactics and Training or the Survival/Preparedness Forum?

'Drew
We need a new forum where we can discuss where threads should be posted. The initial post for all new threads would be quarantined in this new forum until we agree where it should be assigned. I recommend Mr. Blitzer be the moderator for the Quarantine Forum.


Jane

[NYC Drew]

Good point, Drew. My fault. I'm terrible at new threads, and try not to make them very often. I just thought it would be good to swat this around. If enough folks more versed than myself post here, we could end up with a good resource for folks looking to beef up home security.

The discussion of an actual physical house doesn't have a lot to do with Tactics and Training.

I suppose it would fall more appropriately under preparedness than anywhere else, but the Survival and Preparedness forum says "extreme situations", so I was thinking that would have more to do with TEOTWAWKI or SHTF as opposed to home construction.

:dunno:


The reason I asked the question is, I distinctly remember two very good threads on the same topic - home reinforcement...and I think they were in the S & P forum...I also know that the constitution of membership there is more geared towards addressing this question (translation: People just as paranoid as 'Drew!) :)

Heck, it may even have been on Packing.org, back in the day...or TFL...but I think it was in S&P.

Do we have a forum yet for staving off memory loss? :headscratch:



Also, on a more serious note - the is a NY forum member here ...Cody Jarrett (this is his screen name), who lost his child to some lowlife rapist/murdering scumscrape.

Cody, IIRC, turned his house into a fortress. The search function does not have the reach of the mighty 10mm round, so unlike the 10mm, it cannot go that far back in time. I will send a PM to Cody to see if he wishes to participate.

Jane, we should really do tea sometime soon. :)

'Drew

[Lone_Wolfe]

Would you guys just please build the damn house so I can move in, already!!!




:tongueout::rofl:

[Deradius]

Doors:

The door issue consists of five components:

Door
Door Frame
Locks
Hinges
Viewer

General notes:

- No glass in the door or near the door would prevent someone from breaking the glass and reaching any locking mechanisms, or sliding through the opening. Aesthetics can still be maintained by purchasing a more ornate door.
- Any screws anywhere should be long (3"?) and set deep.

Door:

The door needs to be of solid construction, such that it will not disintigrate under aggressive attack. This means a solid core door, and opinions vary as to whether metal or wood is best.

Therma-Tru makes a line of hurricane rated doors that are resistant to penetration due to their integration of a steel plate, sandwiched between layers of fiberglass.

http://www.thermatru.com/images/Products/EntryDoors/ImpactOpaque.pdf

Door Frame:

Passive 101 has noted, as have others, that Doorjamb Armor may be an effective solution.

http://www.djarmor.com/Door-Jamb-Armor

Any solution should result in a strong door frame and a resistant strike plate.

Locks:

I propose two locks.

The first should be a deadbolt, the second, a springbolt.

The deadbolt should be present for obvious reasons.

Passive101 has noted that the Ultimate Lock may be a solution. http://www.theultimatelock.com/

Mas Ayoob has noted in "The Truth About Self Protection" that Medeco and Abloy locks were (at the time of publication) the best in the business.

Any deadbolt lock needs to be pick, bump, and drill resistant.

The second lock should be a springbolt, designed to lock automatically when the door shuts. I believe I may have gotten this idea from a gun 'riter as well. It's a good one though - as soon as you're able to force the door shut in the face of an intruder, the door locks, giving you time to engage the deadbolt.

I can't find any springbolt manufacturers at the moment - I'd be much obliged if someone could lend a hand.

More will be added later if there is interest and I have motivation..

[itisbruno]

We need a new forum where we can discuss where threads should be posted. The initial post for all new threads would be quarantined in this new forum until we agree where it should be assigned. I recommend Mr. Blitzer be the moderator for the Quarantine Forum.


Jane

I'd reply, but I'm trying to figure out if this is the proper place to do it or not ... I'll check back in after I figure it out.

:headscratch:

[Peace Warrior]

2.) The house must be fire safe - if there is a fire, the occupants must be able to exit with due safety. (Windows, in particular, must be 'escapeable' from the inside, but safe from the outside!)
:supergrin: Remington 870 MasterKey :supergrin:

[AZ DBLTRBL]

I suggest a big Guard dog of your choice. No matter what other security devices you throw in the mix, a dog can go everywhere with your kids and can be a great line of defense if security is breeched.

[itisbruno]

I suggest a big pit bull..... and I'll volunteer to bring the scented candles. No reason why you can't defend your home and still have that romantic candle glow in the background to set the proper mood.

Hope you got a pooper-scooper for that hound, and it better get along with Killer, or Jane will serve the pit for dinner.

:cool:

[tlafrance]

I thought you were suggesting a reality type TV show where GT members were placed in a house to see who could survive the insanity the longest:supergrin:

Tom

[lee2]

i propose a thread where where we can discuss threads to propose.
not only that, but we can discuss discussions we can talk about.
pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.:dunno:

[1811guy2]

Main structure steel framed.
Exterior reinforced concrete panels (12") with stone or brick facade at least 12' high.
Reinforced steel roof.
Windows are level III laminated glass, retained in concrete panels with 6" overlap.
Door frames integral to steel frame of structure. Directional bolt locking system in door (not uncommon in countries outside the US - practically necessary).
Interior dropping steel panels over doors and windows in case of attempted breach. Panels constructed of level 4 armor plate.
Standard alarm system for house.
Rifles available through biometric access safes throughout home.
Communication through reduntant wired and wireless systems including satellite phone.
Uninterrupted poer supply with shielded access and 12 hr. battery backup for critical systems.

Perimeter wall with single gate access. 14' wall topped with decorative spikes. Vegetation and trees kept at least 6' away from wall.
Perimeter secure by motion sensors, ground sensors, and video. Activation will turn on HID lighting on perimeter.

Just a few thoughts. You could spend alot of money on this stuff, or you could just move to Idaho and keep guns in the house and good neighbors next door.

[Deradius]

Main structure steel framed.
Exterior reinforced concrete panels (12") with stone or brick facade at least 12' high.
Reinforced steel roof.
Windows are level III laminated glass, retained in concrete panels with 6" overlap.
Door frames integral to steel frame of structure. Directional bolt locking system in door (not uncommon in countries outside the US - practically necessary).
Interior dropping steel panels over doors and windows in case of attempted breach. Panels constructed of level 4 armor plate.
Standard alarm system for house.
Rifles available through biometric access safes throughout home.
Communication through reduntant wired and wireless systems including satellite phone.
Uninterrupted poer supply with shielded access and 12 hr. battery backup for critical systems.

Perimeter wall with single gate access. 14' wall topped with decorative spikes. Vegetation and trees kept at least 6' away from wall.
Perimeter secure by motion sensors, ground sensors, and video. Activation will turn on HID lighting on perimeter.

Just a few thoughts. You could spend alot of money on this stuff, or you could just move to Idaho and keep guns in the house and good neighbors next door.

Some interesting suggestions I've never seen here. Thanks!

[Cali-Glock]

I like the direction 1811 is going, though I suggest a concrete and steel re-enforced adobe home with steel reinforced roof covered in solar panels. (3'+ thick walls). Triple pane windows with ornamental (functional) steel "storm panels"....

[Lone_Wolfe]

Don't forget an appropriate sized gun safe...

[Deradius]

Assuming that you are willing to build the house from the ground up, are these measures fairly cost effective?

[itisbruno]

Don't forget an appropriate sized gun safe...

:hearts:

[Lone_Wolfe]

:hearts:

Well I've got to keep you out of my guns somehow, bruno!!!



:tongueout:



:rofl::rofl:

[Hines57]

I have been impressed with ICF buildings.
My personal plan in the next few years is to build underground with commercial steel shutters over entry points.

[Peace Warrior]

i propose a thread where where we can discuss threads to propose.
not only that, but we can discuss discussions we can talk about.
...
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[glockerjeff23]

I thought you were suggesting a reality type TV show where GT members were placed in a house to see who could survive the insanity the longest:supergrin:

Tom
:rofl:

[Atlas]

Entry doors should have a video camera and intercom.
One should be able to answer any visitors at the door from an interior room, remote from the doorway.

[Lone_Wolfe]

I thought you were suggesting a reality type TV show where GT members were placed in a house to see who could survive the insanity the longest:supergrin:

Tom

Would we be allowed to bring guns? :rofl::rofl:

[Swanny]

I think we should build it in a neighborhood with an HOA that won't allow Ford F-150s.

[NYC Drew]

I think we should build it in a neighborhood with an HOA that won't allow Ford F-150s.

Or treadmills.


My contribution to the thread.

1. At least 75 yards from the gate to the shooting position up in the attic :whistling:
2. Sensors in the driveway, or at the mailbox to tell if a vehicle enters the property.
3. Cameras mounted on the walls of YOUR NEIGHBOR's house, that way, even if your house is hit by the death squad from hell, there is footage somewhere that can bring em to justice.
4. As many outdoor cameras as your house has sides.
5. Lead out (SHTF tunnel) from the basement - to about 90feet out into the back yard, out in the woods, via trapdoor.

'Drew

[Deradius]

Or treadmills.


My contribution to the thread.

1. At least 75 yards from the gate to the shooting position up in the attic :whistling:
2. Sensors in the driveway, or at the mailbox to tell if a vehicle enters the property.
3. Cameras mounted on the walls of YOUR NEIGHBOR's house, that way, even if your house is hit by the death squad from hell, there is footage somewhere that can bring em to justice.
4. As many outdoor cameras as your house has sides.
5. Lead out (SHTF tunnel) from the basement - to about 90feet out into the back yard, out in the woods, via trapdoor.

'Drew

All outstanding ideas. These are the kinds of concepts I'm looking for. Thanks, Drew.

[Swanny]

On the serious side, if you are going to use cameras, then they should be motion activated and wired into a DVR set-up that is networked through the Internet. That way, you could view the video from anywere, and would also have a digital copy that you could turn over to law enforcement.

[WellArmedSheep]

We definitely need a moat. We could set it up to do double duty as a "lazy river" for the kiddos.

[RHVEtte]

Doors:

Locks:

I propose two locks.

The first should be a deadbolt, the second, a springbolt.

The deadbolt should be present for obvious reasons.

Passive101 has noted that the Ultimate Lock may be a solution. http://www.theultimatelock.com/

Mas Ayoob has noted in "The Truth About Self Protection" that Medeco and Abloy locks were (at the time of publication) the best in the business.

Any deadbolt lock needs to be pick, bump, and drill resistant.

The second lock should be a springbolt, designed to lock automatically when the door shuts. I believe I may have gotten this idea from a gun 'riter as well. It's a good one though - as soon as you're able to force the door shut in the face of an intruder, the door locks, giving you time to engage the deadbolt.



In regards to the "springbolt" lock, I believe I have an option. Folger Adams makes a very nice electric strike. The bolt is fixed inside the door, and the strike itself releases when power is applied to the proper switch. These can be programmed to work in a variety of ways. You can use an access controls system, like a proximity card, or you can use a keypad. On the inside, something more mundane, i.e. a push-button switch, will suffice. As for the function of the lock itself, it would actually be sufficient to hold the door closed, no dead bolt needed. The only need for a dead bolt would be in case of power loss. Most likely, the electric strike needs to be fail-safe, so if there is a fire or power is lost, people can get out. A fail-secure lock would lock them inside. Because of this, if you lost power and had a fail-safe lock, you would need a deadbolt to lock the door in the inter-rim.

[NYC Drew]

On the serious side, if you are going to use cameras, then they should be motion activated and wired into a DVR set-up that is networked through the Internet. That way, you could view the video from anywere, and would also have a digital copy that you could turn over to law enforcement.


all of my suggestions were serious. Also, we are/have already implemented your suggestion. Offsite recording starts with activity detected. Everything is recorded locally, with remote access (local site has static IP address, with APC UPSes and genny tied to automatic transfer switch).


'Drew

[jakemccoy]

Good thread but wrong forum..."General Non-Glocking" is only for wasting time and telling jokes.

[Swanny]

all of my suggestions were serious. Also, we are/have already implemented your suggestion. Offsite recording starts with activity detected. Everything is recorded locally, with remote access (local site has static IP address, with APC UPSes and genny tied to automatic transfer switch).


'Drew

Wasn't saying you weren't being serious. Was saying that I wasn't in my previous post about the homeowners association.

[Peace Warrior]

Is the coffee maker in the kitchen yet? I need some...:yawn:

[NYC Drew]

Wasn't saying you weren't being serious. Was saying that I wasn't in my previous post about the homeowners association.

work with me here Swan....I am typing with one hand here....using your powers of forum moderator, please insert a tongue in cheek smilie in my post please......:cool:

[Cody Jarrett]

Also, on a more serious note - the is a NY forum member here ...Cody Jarrett (this is his screen name), who lost his child to some lowlife rapist/murdering scumscrape.

Cody, IIRC, turned his house into a fortress. The search function does not have the reach of the mighty 10mm round, so unlike the 10mm, it cannot go that far back in time. I will send a PM to Cody to see if he wishes to participate.

'Drew
Thanks Drew for letting me know about this thread. I'll contribute what I've learned (the hard way).

The first thing to remember is that there is a big difference between those who burglarize your home and those who wish to harm you. Burglars are thwarted easier than a real sicko. I never thought that my family could fall victim to a crazy. We lived in a beautiful, upscale neighborhood in a country setting... farmland, apples and woods all around. That was all shattered one day when a local sex offender quietly grabbed our little guy and dragged him into the woods. He was sodomized, beaten, stabbed multiple times in the head, neck and genitals. My wife found him still alive. She dressed him and her and the neighbor sped off to the hospital with him. He was conscious part of the time. He cried, gurgled, coughed and eventually spit the life out of him in her arms. She always told me "I felt him go. He shuddered and went quiet."

We've never been able to get over this. No family does. We all see this sort of thing on the news, feel terrible, shake our heads in disbelief and then go to bed. But for the families of the victims the horror continues. They can't get that picture out of their heads. For the next ten years my wife awoke every night screaming. I would hold her, get her fully awake and try to tell her everything will be OK. Eventually she would settle back into sleep.

The perp, a teenager, served 18 months in a juvenile facility. After his release he did it again to two six-year-old twin boys and was then sentenced as an adult.

I tell you this story, not for the shock factor but so you'll understand that you get one shot at this and you must do it right. Protecting your home and family is the single most important thing in your life. So I'll tell you what we've done to ensure this never happens again.


I started by creating a perimeter of security around the property. The perimeter has plenty of warning signs at the road, mailbox and coming in from the woods in every direction.
I installed motion activated lights on all sides... 12 halogen's in all. I used professional grade stuff, not the Home Depot specials. It lights up like Monday-night football when anything of size comes within 100 feet.
I installed six motion activated cameras on a DVR with infrared capability. Four are mounted on the house and two are mounted remotely looking back at the house. The DVR can hold 60 hours of motion and is connected to the main home theater system. This enables me to have a split-screen look around the property in the middle of the Yankee game.
I have a protection trained GSD in the house. The dog remains with my wife and other family members at all times. He's not a pet, he's a member of the family and is allowed everywhere. Never close your protection dog off from a certain part of the home.
I installed alarms on all doors and windows with motion and glass breakage sensors. I use ADT Security which has been a wonderful company. The alarm system also handles fire and CM and uses a roof mounted cell antennae for backup.
Every door and window has the ADT warning sign.
I moved all power and phone connections inside the house so they cannot be tampered with.
I installed steel grates on the lower basement windows and removed shrubs from around them.
All exterior doors are steel in steel frames with double locks and no glass near them.
Once inside I have a safe room with a steel door. I keep a cell phone, manual alarm panel and a Glock in there.
The family uses a unique code word for an emergency. When any member of the family yells out that word, everyone scrambles to one of two safe rooms, except the dog. You'll have to deal with him first.
Whenever the kids are outside the rule is that the dog stays with them. Period.
I've come to know everyone in the neighborhood. The kids, their friends, the cars, etc. Strange people and vehicles raise my attention.
Some say its'a a little overboard, but I live very secluded and don't intend to ever let anyone harm my family again.


This might be more than most people need but hey, I'm a little paranoid. My advice is to take the ideas that suit your situation and put them to good use. And trust NO ONE with your children. Make sure your kids understand topics like stranger safety and safe-side adults. You can get the home videos for them at https://www.thesafeside.com/Store/Default.asp?utm_source=Carlie%27s+Crusade&utm_medium=Affiliate.

Good luck and God bless.

Drew: Thanks for the consideration.

[Peace Warrior]

CJ,

I am so sorry for your loss. Thanks for the info from your post. I never knew about most of the things you brought up, especially the cell phone antenna on the roof. Great idea!


...I have a protection trained GSD in the house. The dog remains with my wife and other family members at all times. He's not a pet, he's a member of the family and is allowed everywhere. Never close your protection dog off from a certain part of the home. ...
I did/do know about having a great Dog for self or family. :thumbsup:

DAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!

[Deradius]

I'd like to take a moment to personally thank CJ for dropping by to let us know what he's done, and his motivation for doing it.

His post is easily one of the most useful posts I've ever seen anywhere on Glocktalk, because it explains a practical plan for home safety that can be accomplished, and has been designed by someone with unimpeachable motivations and commitment to safety.

It's at the same time an example to aspire to and proof that effective home security is within reach.

CJ, I'm ignorant of a lot, and can't imagine being where you are - but from what I do understand I know sharing something so intensely traumatic and personal is not an easy thing. Thanks - your story and its meaning for the average citizen are not wasted on me.

I'll be thinking good thoughts about you and your family from time to time for a long while. I wish you all the best.

Drew, thanks for directing a great resource our way.

[NYC Drew]

I'd like to take a moment to personally thank C(ody) J(arrett) for dropping by to let us know what he's done, and his motivation for doing it.
....

Yeah. His story is BEYOND sobering. One day we'll ask him, if he's up to it, about the story on the fellow who abused his kid, and the friends that this fiend keep.

I myself have my share of horror stories, but obviously, none as devastating as Cody's. My reasons for living in Ft. Knox, NY are from living most of my entire life in different ghettos. There is poor, and then there is another level of poverty where human life has very little value. Since I value mine, and the people whose well being I have been blessed with being in charge of, I tend to take personal security (protection) very seriously.

I don't have anywhere near the scale (land or setup) of Cody's...and from the outside, my place looks deceptively soft. To the career criminals, there are enough "tells" to have them move on to the next home. For the smash and grab guy...he's not gonna get far. One of my biggest expenses is insurance. Home, auto, life, disability, health, umbrella etc + business ins.

My goal is to get to being old and senile, without ever once having to blip the radar of Law Enforcement in a negative way...:cool:




'Drew