Do you think Barack Obama has the necessary qualities to be President? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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jnojr
08-28-2008, 20:18
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20080828-1300-cvn-conventionrdp.html

Leave link cold please

larry starling
08-28-2008, 21:51
I hit it......And add me to the NO crowd.:shocked:

TACHop&Pop
08-29-2008, 04:25
NO:faint:

sticks
08-29-2008, 05:41
I voted NO also.

NRA_guy
08-29-2008, 05:45
Hmmm.

Current numbers:


Yes 55.7% (1835)
No 43.0% (1418)
Unsure 1.3% (44)

cookekdjr
08-29-2008, 06:57
Do you think Barack Obama has the necessary qualities to be President?

Yes.

slewfoot
08-29-2008, 07:02
Sure he is. I am not so sure about the people putting words in his mouth or pulling the strings though.

cookekdjr
08-29-2008, 07:24
Sure he is. I am not so sure about the people putting words in his mouth or pulling the strings though.

who would that be?

G26man
08-29-2008, 09:36
Lots of money? Check.
Good speaking skills? Check.
Lie with a straight face? Check.

He's got the qualifications. I still voted no because he's the most liberal senator ever, and what an Obama administration would do to this country and our rights would not be pretty. Just think what we'll be in for if he gets to name supreme court justices.

Everyone who wants Obama just go live in a liberal country and leave mine alone.

Vic777
08-29-2008, 09:43
It's his views and leanings which are wrong for America and the Free World.

pakettle
08-29-2008, 10:51
Obama = no more guns. I think the NRA will even have a tough time with this clown, if elected.

slewfoot
08-29-2008, 11:06
who would that be?

follow the money trail.

Dalton Wayne
08-29-2008, 11:23
I voted not just no but HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!

kcb
08-29-2008, 16:44
I voted not just no but HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!

:goodpost:

:supergrin::wavey:

Silent Runner
08-29-2008, 17:59
I watched his speech last night and was impressed.

I think the fact that so many watched his speech is also a sign of great interested (38+ million watched, according to the Nielsen ratings) in his candidacy.

I am looking forward to watching the RNC next week and of course, the Presidential debates... I think with Pallin being tapped by McCain, the VP debate will be very interesting to watch.

If Obama is elected (which I think he will be), I don't think much will change around our Second Amendment rights.

Front Sight
08-29-2008, 18:26
The Second Amendment may not change. However you may not be able to take any firearm out doors. Or you could be restricted to a firearm that only holds one round.
There are only 4 million NRA members. It will be an up hill battle to keep what we have now.

Dirty Dealer
08-29-2008, 18:33
I vote NO, but they said on the news tonight that 38million people tuned in to watch him give his acceptance speech the other night...

Wow, that's a whole lot of people.

Local150
08-29-2008, 20:26
You can look at the records of both candidates on any specific issues that they have voted on. Mister Hussein has voted for many bills to alter our gun laws.

I did not own a gun till about a month and a half ago. I wish I would have earlier and I think that all law abiding citizens should have them. In case, an invading force such as the Russia versus Georgia incident. The way this country has gotten though is that certain people would start looting our own country instead of fighting. They think that they are owed something for nothing.

:dunno:

right winger01
08-29-2008, 20:44
No Way. Not even close to being Presidential material.:rofl:

Shima
08-29-2008, 20:46
I voted not just no but HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!


+1 for me. Keep your Change and I'll keep my AK-47!!!:steamed:

sdsnet
08-29-2008, 20:55
Never

cookekdjr
08-29-2008, 21:01
follow the money trail.

ummm...to the grass roots?
Seriously, I understand you not liking his stance on some issues. I get that. But follow the money? Most of his contributions are less than $100 and come from average Americans.
Are you saying you don't like average folks? I'm afraid I don't understand. Did he suddenly get a payoff from somebody and it wasn't public knowledge? Help us out here...
thanks,

David

Gun Shark
08-29-2008, 21:57
Yes I do think he has a chance I also think that it will be a very close race.

gravel
08-29-2008, 23:29
NO,I'll keep my Glock, thank you.

tomkatz
08-30-2008, 02:01
deleted

GMAN40
08-30-2008, 06:17
Do you think Barack Obama has the necessary qualities to be President?

Maybe , maybe not!! But McCain's POW experience doesn't make him qualified to be president.:upeyes:

slewfoot
08-30-2008, 07:04
Do you think Barack Obama has the necessary qualities to be President?

Maybe , maybe not!! But McCain's POW experience doesn't make him qualified to be president.:upeyes:

Why do you focus on McCain's POW experience? How about his 20 + years of Congressional service?

We could match that up with Barry's 3 years of voting Present.:rofl::rofl:

gelhard
08-30-2008, 09:04
No !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cxray
08-30-2008, 11:09
With Palin now, Mccain has both gender sides and would surely win this election

cookekdjr
08-30-2008, 14:44
here ya go.....

WHERE DID OBAMA'S MONEY COME FROM???????
Subject: New York Times Editorial
By MAUREEN DOWD
Published: June 29, 2008


OBAMA'S TROUBLING INTERNET FUND RAISING
Certainly the most interesting and potentially devastating phone call I have received during this election cycle came this week from one of the 20 Obama's campaign Internet geeks These are the staffers who devised Obama's Internet fund raising campaign which raised in the neighborhood of $200 million so far. That is more then twice the total funds raised by any candidate in history – and this was all from the Internet campaign.
What I learned from this insider was shocking but I guess we shouldn't be surprised that when it comes to fund raising there simply are no rules that can't be broken and no ethics that prevail.
Obama's Internet campaign started out innocently enough with basic e-mail networking , lists saved from previous party campaigns and from supporters who visited any of the Obama campaign web sites.
Small contributio ns came in from these sources and the Internet campaign staff were more than pleased by the results.
Then, about two months into the campaign the daily contribution intake multiplied. Where was it coming from? One of the web site security monitors began to notice the bulk of the contributions were clearly coming in from overseas Internet service providers and at the rate and frequency of transmission it was clear these donations were "programmed" by a very sophisticated user.
While the security people were not able to track most of the sources due to firewalls and other blocking devices put on these contributions they were able to collate the number of contributions that were coming in seemingly from individuals but the funds were from only a few credit card accounts and bank electronic funds transfers. The Internet service providers (ISP) they were able to trace were from Saudi Arabia , Iran , and other Middle Eastern countries. One of the banks used for fund transfers was also located in Saudi Arabia .
Another concentrated group of donations was traced to a Chinese ISP with a similar pattern of limited credit card charges.
It became clear that these donations were very likely coming from sources other than American voters. This was discussed at length within the campaign and the decision was made that none of these donations violated campaign financing laws..
It was also decided that it was not the responsibility of the campaign to audit these millions of contributions as to the actual source (specific credit card number or bank transfer account numbers) to insure that none of these Internet contributors exceeded the legal maximum donation on a cumulative basis of many small donations. They also found the record keeping was not complete enough to do it anyway.
This is a shocking revelation.
We have been concerned about the legality of "bundling" contributions after the recent exposure of illegal bundlers but now it appears we may have an even greater problem.
I guess we should have been somewhat suspicious when the numbers started to come out. We were told (no proof offered) that the Obama Internet contributions were from $10.00 to $25.00 or so.
If the $200,000,000 is right, and the average contribution was $15.00, that would mean over 13 million individuals made contributions? That would also be 13 million contributions would need to be processed. How did all that happen?
I believe the Obama campaign's internet fund raising needs a serious, in depth investigation and audit. It also appears the whole question of internet fund raising needs investigation by the legislature and perhaps new laws to insure it complies not only with the letter of these laws but the spirit as well.

IS IT RIGHT FOR FOREIGN COUNTRIES TO HAVE AN INVESTMENT IN WHO BECOMES OUR NEXT PRESIDENT???

Seriously, dude. Snopes is your friend. So is basic internet research. Just google "maureen dowd" with "obama fundraising". You'll be directed to alot of urban legends websites. The editorial is a fake.
Basic rule of thumb: if you see something about Obama that indicates he's a spy or a muslim or an agent of foreign governments or any outrageous claim like that, its a fraud. Every email I get from my Republican friends about Obama I run through snopes or a similar site. To date, 100% of them have proven to be known internet frauds.

tomkatz
08-30-2008, 16:56
You're right, and I believed a good friend who said he had already checked and it was valid. Guess it shows you how much I dislike Obama, I'd believe pretty much anything about him.
Anyway, I'll snopes any stuff I hear about him in the future.

sigpro-fessor
08-30-2008, 18:21
Anyone who voted yes, and your on a gun forum you're clueless. Obama is as anti as they come.

infoe
08-30-2008, 18:39
Anyone who voted yes, and your on a gun forum you're clueless. Obama is as anti as they come.

I'm voting for mccain, but what difference does it make if he's anti gun, anti abortion, anti mcdonald's....what DIFFERENCE does that make his ability to be president of the United States.

I think he is a worthy candidate for the Presidency.

Don't be so narrow minded. I vote the man, not the party.

superswamper
08-30-2008, 20:09
nope. simple as that

SW342
08-30-2008, 22:17
No.......

Glockdude1
08-30-2008, 22:19
I say NO to B.O.

atlharp
08-31-2008, 05:30
B.O. has illicited bad judgment and an inability to stand by principled positions when faced with significant criticism or political damage.

His associations with hateful anti-american preachers (Wright) and unrepentant domestic terrorists (Ayers) make him a liability of the first order.

So the answer is NO

ATL

mitchshrader
08-31-2008, 06:11
he's most likely to be muslim friendly of any candidate in his position in the last 40 years. mexicans I can assimilate, if forced. 5 years of mandatory english classes, forced deportations of those receiving social services as illegals, tolerance of taxpayers (we LIKE taxpayers, get it? ) and we got a handle on the mexican issue. what we DO NOT have a handle on, is muslim investment.

and it'll eat the prosperity of our kids and kill our culture and mr obama is the prime suspect to sign off on it. that one thing, alone, is a deal breaker, and with palin i've got something to think about but mccains aged blather. ok, i'll do 'er. ANYBODY but obama.

no bluidy thank you, i don't want the social services at the cost of devaluation of currency, it's not even a fair trade. stable currency and LEAVE THE MONEY ALONE .. THEN you can have prosperity, it can NOT be inflated or stolen, it's a zero sum game till you ADD VALUE.. and that's by the worlds standards now and we play on a level playing field like it or don't.

either tighten up or get out of the game, and we can turn the country around with the same hard work that built it. . and without that hard work, we can NOT turn it around. islam is too divisive to exist within a republican matrix, or even within a democratic one, it'll eat itself in the attempt.

it's by it's nature unitary theocracy, and we can't tolerate even the toehold it's gotten already. it's poison. No to obama. to HELL with obama, in fact.. he'll not serve as a president to me and mine no matter who says otherwise.

kpw
08-31-2008, 11:10
Lots of money? Check.
Good speaking skills? Check.
Lie with a straight face? Check.

He's got the qualifications. I still voted no because he's the most liberal senator ever, and what an Obama administration would do to this country and our rights would not be pretty. Just think what we'll be in for if he gets to name supreme court justices.

Everyone who wants Obama just go live in a liberal country and leave mine alone.

Yeah, he has all the qualifications. He is the Pied Piper of politics. He has become the messiah of the left and he is going to save us all from ourselves. People tend to look for a savior when times are tough and in Obama, they've found theirs. Promise the masses a little prosperity in harsh times and they'll be glad to give up some rights and maybe a chunk of their moral souls to get it. Personally, I'm pro-Life, pro-2A, pro-military, pro-death penalty and pro-business. He's right about one thing, I do cling to my guns and religion. I'm not so much bitter but angry at the populace that needs someone to make life all better for them. We live in a country that most poor people have a car, a computer, cable TV, cell phones and eat enough to get fat. Even with all of that, they still ***** because they are "entitled to more". Why? Because they are Americans? Remember when people earned their living? When they took pride in their achievements while enduring hardships? We have a right to health care and education and many other things but we're NOT entitled to it.

Sorry for the rant!

racine
08-31-2008, 20:22
He should run for mayor of Chicago, or some small town. The guy is talented but a real rookie for one of the most trying roles in leadership. He is a well spoken fella but his spoken points are empty idealistic ranting. Joe "...Your No Jack Kennedy" Biden would be my last choice of 20, and the reason he always falls off the ticket. Again, NOOOO!!!

josh10002
08-31-2008, 20:41
NO. He has no real life experience. Going to an Ivy League school and then teaching in a far left university doesn't prepare you for President. Besides it seams that he, his wife and most of his acquaintances hate America so...

Get_Zwole
09-01-2008, 02:17
nope that is all.

arizona-hermit
09-01-2008, 10:49
I would rather see the "Billary" twins in the White House than B.O. and I would rather see Pogo, Elmer Fudd, or even Betty Boop than the Billary fiasco again.

Looks like McCain all the way and that may not be all that much better.

striker6126
09-01-2008, 14:17
I watched his speech last night and was impressed.

I think the fact that so many watched his speech is also a sign of great interested (38+ million watched, according to the Nielsen ratings) in his candidacy.

I am looking forward to watching the RNC next week and of course, the Presidential debates... I think with Pallin being tapped by McCain, the VP debate will be very interesting to watch.

If Obama is elected (which I think he will be), I don't think much will change around our Second Amendment rights.


The fact so many watched means nothing.

I watched also and i would not vote for that P.O.S if my life depended on it.

The biggest question is what was so impressive ??? Did anyone see how many trillions of dollars he was spending on that stage with no way of paying for it. I just can't understand a tax paying gun owner buying into his S##T

SW342
09-02-2008, 12:45
Nope....No....Nope....NO

LexDiamonds
09-02-2008, 13:54
Obama=fail

amos1909
09-02-2008, 14:57
no way

Silent Runner
09-02-2008, 19:06
he's most likely to be muslim friendly of any candidate in his position in the last 40 years.

I just spent some time trying to find something that might back this up (Congressional voting record, etc).

Can you post links/sources?

Thanks.

twogunjay
09-03-2008, 07:20
Obama is a great speaker. He is very eloquent. However, he lacks decisiveness and substance. When he doesn't have a script in front of him and/or doesn't know the questions in advance-he flounders.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj69/twogunjay/Change.jpg

Cobra64
09-03-2008, 14:41
It depends.

If one appreciates a racist, anarchist, race-baiting, Marxist; then he's the man.

It's amazing that he thinks there are fifty-seven (57) States in the United States. If he bothered to Pledge Allegiance to the American Flag, then he could have counted the stars on our Flag.

Then again, apparently he's associating the number 57 with the number of terrorist rogue nations.


http://www.jeffhead.com/obama/NoSalute.jpg

Interesting but little known facts: http://www.jeffhead.com/blacklibtheology.htm

http://www.theobamafile.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVJuk5RkYPk




.

cookekdjr
09-03-2008, 15:00
Cobra64,
If you believe have the stuff in the links you posted, I've got some ocean- front property I'd like to sell you...

If you don't like Obama's stance on issues, fine. But please stop with the b.s. propoganda.

saminksiii
09-03-2008, 15:02
I would say no if everything was just up to him. Fortunately it isn't and won't be. If it was, we'd have gone down the tube long ago. I'm still voting Republican.

striker6126
09-03-2008, 17:27
Cobra64,
If you believe have the stuff in the links you posted, I've got some ocean- front property I'd like to sell you...

If you don't like Obama's stance on issues, fine. But please stop with the b.s. propoganda.


I guess i need to buy some of that ocean property from you also.

cookekdjr
09-03-2008, 21:13
I guess i need to buy some of that ocean property from you also.

Its on a beach in Arizona...everybody who believes the Obama chain letter-emails is really excited about it and pays up front sight unseen. :whistling:

striker6126
09-03-2008, 22:09
You don't have to believe any chain letter . Just listen to the bs that comes out of his mouth , or look at who his friends are and what they are on the record for saying and doing.

kdoggy
09-04-2008, 11:57
Lots of money? Check.
Good speaking skills? Check.
Lie with a straight face? Check.


Actually, most people think its speaking skills suck. At least when confronted with a question or a debate. He never knows what to say unless someones writing it for him.

Any idiot can open his mouth and read something someone else wrote.

glock2740
09-04-2008, 13:35
No, I don't.

cookekdjr
09-04-2008, 14:00
You don't have to believe any chain letter . Just listen to the bs that comes out of his mouth , or look at who his friends are and what they are on the record for saying and doing.

Then why not address his actual words quote by quote instead of posting links to sites that contain lie after lie?
We know why...because its alot harder to take Obama to task for the things he's actually said and done than it is to post links to websites that are full of lies.

bryceban
09-04-2008, 15:44
Cobra64,
If you believe have the stuff in the links you posted, I've got some ocean- front property I'd like to sell you...

If you don't like Obama's stance on issues, fine. But please stop with the b.s. propoganda.


You better sell that ocean front property in AZ before BHO gives it to the "less fortunate". Seriously, you are in the wrong forums for promoting BHO pal.

cookekdjr
09-04-2008, 20:17
You better sell that ocean front property in AZ before BHO gives it to the "less fortunate". Seriously, you are in the wrong forums for promoting BHO pal.

No, I am NOT in the wrong forum. I love Glocks. I carry a Glock. I have a pistol in my pocket every day of my life. I have a gun with me right now. I have used my gun to stop my own carjacking, and I am issued a gun in my job.
You know, most GT'ers and folks on other gunboards complain about "liberals" all the time. If only they'd see the light about the 2nd Am and the RTKBA in general. They are so wrong, they are soft on crime, blah blah blah.
But if that liberal agrees with you on gun issues, is that good enough? Hell no. They have to agree on every other prevailing belief of the people who own guns to make people happy around here.
Well, that is b.s. This is a gun forum, not a GOP forum. I like glocks, this is a place for glock lovers. Don't tell me where I belong and where I don't.

bryceban
09-04-2008, 20:43
I'll tell you over and over where the hell I think you belong because I can. Of course it doesn't matter because it is what I think. The opinion of mine and many, many others on these types of forums is that Barack is the enemy. 2nd ammendment aside, he does not stand for what most decent, hard working Americans have worked hard for. Maybe he is the man for you, but not for most of us here. I personally would never be able to get along with a BHO supporter, call me anything you want and I will probably agree, it is what it is.

Cobra64
09-04-2008, 21:07
Cobra64,
If you believe have the stuff in the links you posted, I've got some ocean- front property I'd like to sell you...

If you don't like Obama's stance on issues, fine. But please stop with the b.s. propoganda.

That photograph has been printed in magazines all over the world.

As for "propoganda," you may want to take the time to follow the links to the facts. Or perhaps read his books.

B. Hussein Obama visited fifty-seven states: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

cookekdjr
09-04-2008, 21:12
I'll tell you over and over where the hell I think you belong because I can. Of course it doesn't matter because it is what I think. The opinion of mine and many, many others on these types of forums is that Barack is the enemy. 2nd ammendment aside, he does not stand for what most decent, hard working Americans have worked hard for. Maybe he is the man for you, but not for most of us here. I personally would never be able to get along with a BHO supporter, call me anything you want and I will probably agree, it is what it is.

Well, I guess you decide who belongs and who doesn't doesn't because you say you do. Since you are in charge and all...:rofl:
By the way, why don't you just say you're not subject to income tax. Just say it and it will be so. That way you'll never have to pay taxes again. While you're at it, say that you get free health care and that everybody has to pay you $10 on Thursday. Because you can say it, and that makes it so...:rofl:
You can say it, so it is true. Just say you are God. It's true because you can say it...you are the decider, after all:notworthy:

Gun Shark
09-04-2008, 22:05
I still think he is qualified to be our President but John Mccain is better qualified

bryceban
09-04-2008, 22:14
Well, I guess you decide who belongs and who doesn't doesn't because you say you do. Since you are in charge and all...:rofl:
By the way, why don't you just say you're not subject to income tax. Just say it and it will be so. That way you'll never have to pay taxes again. While you're at it, say that you get free health care and that everybody has to pay you $10 on Thursday. Because you can say it, and that makes it so...:rofl:
You can say it, so it is true. Just say you are God. It's true because you can say it...you are the decider, after all:notworthy:

I pay plenty of income tax, with BHO I might have to pay more so others can have free health care and free food etc..........I work hard and have a good job so that I may have health care. I do not want to have to carry the weight of other non contributing waste of space members of society. (<----which BTW are usually BHO supporting liberal Dems):wavey:

Gun Shark
09-04-2008, 22:25
Also they are both smart people who will probably do a good job as president. Personally I would vote for Mccain but I know a lot of gun owners that would vote for Obama. If Obama had more experience and or Sarah Palin as his running mate I would vote for Obama.

striker6126
09-04-2008, 23:23
All i can say that anyone that votes for BHO better hope some of those retired police officers that can still carry are willing to do private security .

If you think with a dem congress he cant get a nation wide ban on concealed carry (which he has said he wants) you are crazier than i first thought.

I remember just before the awb everyone saying there is no way they can pass and enforce a 10 rnd magazine ban and see where that thinking got us.

striker6126
09-04-2008, 23:50
Since some like to see it in writing here is proof straight from the horses mouth about my above post.
_____________________________________________________________
By David Mendell
Chicago Tribune staff reporter
February 20, 2004

This story contains corrected material, published Feb. 21, 2004.

Leading Democrats seeking their party's nomination to the U.S. Senate generally agree that laws governing capital punishment, drugs and guns should be overhauled, although they differ about how that should be accomplished and the role of the federal government in that process.

Responding to a Tribune questionnaire, former securities trader Blair Hull was the only Democrat who said that the death penalty should be abolished altogether.

"I am opposed to the death penalty based on the Illinois experience, which highlights racial and prosecutorial biases," Hull said.

Three candidates--state Sen. Barack Obama, Cook County Treasurer Maria Pappas and former Chicago school board chief Gery Chico--said they favor the death penalty for only the most heinous of murders, such as serial killing. But Obama qualified his stance, saying that his support eroded further when looking at how the death penalty "is currently administered in this country."

Illinois Comptroller Dan Hynes, meanwhile, said he endorsed the death penalty in the "most egregious cases," but he did not specify what those were.

Hynes and Pappas were the only candidates who did not support a federal moratorium on capital punishment.

"There is no evidence that the death penalty has been applied in a discriminatory way by the federal courts, nor is there evidence that federal trials have wrongfully convicted individuals and then sentenced them to death," Hynes said.

Obama noted that he sponsored successful death-penalty-reform legislation as a lawmaker in Springfield. That legislation, among other things, required the videotaping of homicide interrogations, and he promised to advocate for similar reforms on a national scale.

All of the candidates endorsed stricter gun-control measures, but each said tougher enforcement of existing gun-control laws should be a priority over the introduction of new laws.

Each candidate supported closing loopholes that allow gun shows to sell weapons to unauthorized buyers. Each also advocated the renewal of a federal ban on the sale of assault weapons, which expires in September.

Obama, however, called for a host of new gun-control measures: strengthening the assault-weapons ban to include high-capacity clips made prior to 1994; holding parents criminally responsible for children who injure someone with a gun found in the home; placing trigger locks on all guns; and allowing gun buyers to purchase only one weapon per month.

Hynes advocated increasing penalties for crimes committed with a gun, and Hull would increase funding to update technology that provides instant background checks on gun buyers.

All of the candidates, except Hynes, said they opposed allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons. Hynes and Chico said states, not the federal government, should regulate the matter.

"I consider this an issue for the states to decide, not the federal government," Chico said.

Obama disagreed. He backed federal legislation that would ban citizens from carrying weapons, except for law enforcement. He cited Texas as an example of a place where a law allowing people to carry weapons has "malfunctioned" because hundreds of people granted licenses had prior convictions.

"National legislation will prevent other states' flawed concealed-weapons laws from threatening the safety of Illinois residents," Obama said.

On the drug war, several of the candidates said more emphasis should be placed on rehabilitating drug users.

When asked to name what federal law should be abolished, all of the candidates, except for Hull, said mandatory sentencing laws should be overturned to give judges more discretion and provide more equitable treatment for minorities.

"It's a dark cloud hanging over our society," Pappas said of racial disparities in criminal sentencing (this sentence as published has been corrected in this text).

Hull said the USA Patriot Act is the federal law that he would abolish, although he supports some elements of the anti-terrorism measure.

The candidates are vying to replace incumbent Republican Sen. Peter Fitzgerald, who is not seeking re-election.

Copyright © 2004, Chicago Tribune

cookekdjr
09-05-2008, 10:19
Since some like to see it in writing here is proof straight from the horses mouth about my above post.


I have not checked the validity of this story, but it sounds legitimate.
This is a fine reason to critisize Obama. Its based on policy. I don't have a problem with it. FWIW, I don't think 2ndAm issues (pro or con) are high on his list right now and I don't think they will become high on his list. But I could very well be wrong and I don't blame someone for voting against him based on this issue.

bryceban
09-05-2008, 10:37
I also don't think gun control is high in his priorities, it simply will not get pro gun votes for him and would hurt his appeal to jump on the pro gun wagon. He will leave that subject alone for sure, unless he gets elected. Then it is up in air and no telling what could happen.

luminaughty
09-05-2008, 13:37
NO. He may however make a fine dictator (warlord) in a third world country.

brandon2018
09-05-2008, 17:19
no ...

jbylake
09-05-2008, 19:26
Forget the fact that he is the most left-wing liberal in the senate, running with another left wing radical, Biden.
Forget the fact that his "uncle"/"mentor" is a white hating hate speech monger, who is only equaled by the Neo-Nazi groups in spreading hate, in the name of God.
Forget the fact that all he has accomplished in his two years of his senate seat, was to sign to bills, which were actually authored by the senior senator in IL, so he'd have at least something on his "resume".
Forget the fact that his wife blatantly has great disdain for her "country".
Forget the fact that he consorts with known "american" terrorists, who have bombed the White House, and killed others, and is unapologetic about it.
Forget the fact that he's the most arrogan horses ass, I've ever listened too.

Let's get to the one basic fact, his qualifications.
Obama being elected to POTUS, is equivelent to a 16 year old, after two weeks of working the fry cooker at McDonald's, being promoted to CEO.
Geez, I really just don't understand his backers. I try, but there is nothing but illogical rehetoric to a "celebrity" in an empty suit.

God help us if he's elected.

cookekdjr
09-05-2008, 19:32
I also don't think gun control is high in his priorities, it simply will not get pro gun votes for him and would hurt his appeal to jump on the pro gun wagon. He will leave that subject alone for sure, unless he gets elected. Then it is up in air and no telling what could happen.

Well, I think if he is elected, it won't be a priority unless he does really well for a year or two and gets good results on priorities of his. Then, and only then, could I see him expend the political capital it would take to affect gun laws.
Whether you like Obama's policies or not, he has run his campaign extremely well, and very pragmatically. I just can't see him sabatoging his economic and health care agendas for gun control. Most voters don't care about gun control pro or con. It doesn't occur to them. But they do care about the economy, taxes, health care, and Iraq.
Obama has surely learned the lesson of the Clintons, who got off to a rocky start by making gays in the military a priority issue immediately after WJC was sworn in. Its just not in Obama's interest to let a "fringe issue" get in the way of his larger agenda.
Which is why I'll vote for the guy despite our divergence on gun laws. I don't think his stance on guns matters to him the way the economy, health care, and Iraq do. And on those larger issues, I agree with him.
-David

cookekdjr
09-05-2008, 19:37
Let's get to the one basic fact, his qualifications.
Obama being elected to POTUS, is equivelent to a 16 year old, after two weeks of working the fry cooker at McDonald's, being promoted to CEO.
Geez, I really just don't understand his backers. I try, but there is nothing but illogical rehetoric to a "celebrity" in an empty suit.

God help us if he's elected.

compare his qualifications to Abraham Lincoln at the time Lincoln was elected.
Are you upset about Lincoln's election since he was so unqualified when compared to Obama?

slewfoot
09-05-2008, 19:41
Which is why I'll vote for the guy despite our divergence on gun laws. I don't think his stance on guns matters to him the way the economy, health care, and Iraq do. And on those larger issues, I agree with him.
-David

What makes you believe Obama will be calling the shots?

Obama's only function in the democrat party is to rubber stamp anything coming out of the democratic controlled congress.

How important has the economy been to the democrats since they took control of the Congress?

What have they done except talk themselves into the lowest approval rating in history?

You probably put more thought in what color toothbrush to buy than you have about your vote.

keith56
09-05-2008, 19:58
No he is not even close to being presidential material although someone did mention some thing a little closer to his speed , a fry cook at McDonald's.

Cross-X
09-05-2008, 20:01
A thinly experienced Senator, never been an executive in government, and fond of giving airy, vapid speeches.

There is no way he is qualified to be Commander in Chief of the USA.

cookekdjr
09-05-2008, 20:12
What makes you believe Obama will be calling the shots?

Obama's only function in the democrat party is to rubber stamp anything coming out of the democratic controlled congress...
You probably put more thought in what color toothbrush to buy than you have about your vote.

You are not paying attention. The democratic controlled congress was for HRC....but the people, through a grass roots movement, put BHO in front. Over 2 million people have given money to his campaign.
As for thought into my vote vs. my toothbrush:
Seriously? You think just because someone disagrees with you they are stupid? Really?
This is what I know. The average American gained income every year under Clinton. Then lost money every year under Bush.
The richest 1% did very well under Clinton...but did even better under Bush.
Taxes will go down for everyone under BHO, unless they make over $250K a year.
So I guess you either make over $250K a year (congratulations, good for you, I don't blame you for voting against Obama). Or you have not thought this whole thing through...

cookekdjr
09-05-2008, 20:18
By the way, how do y'all feel about how McCain votes against vets and their benefits (actually calls them "ground noise" and "static" when vets call him out on it) and basically has abandoned vets, while Obama supports vets?
Does McCain expect all vets to cheat on their wives and marry an heiress so they'll have good health care like he did? Is that the new McCain vets health care plan?
What do you think is McCain's motivation to disown our new vets now that he's rich? Does he simply want to cut taxes for the richest 1% again at our veterans expense? Why does he hate them so much?

cookekdjr
09-05-2008, 20:45
A thinly experienced Senator, never been an executive in government, and fond of giving airy, vapid speeches.

There is no way he is qualified to be Commander in Chief of the USA.

You might want to check out the thread that I started about Palin...

striker6126
09-05-2008, 21:04
By the way, how do y'all feel about how McCain votes against vets and their benefits (actually calls them "ground noise" and "static" when vets call him out on it) and basically has abandoned vets, while Obama supports vets?
Does McCain expect all vets to cheat on their wives and marry an heiress so they'll have good health care like he did? Is that the new McCain vets health care plan?
What do you think is McCain's motivation to disown our new vets now that he's rich? Does he simply want to cut taxes for the richest 1% again at our veterans expense? Why does he hate them so much?


Could you please show proof of the "ground noise" and "static" comment.

slewfoot
09-05-2008, 21:12
Seriously? You think just because someone disagrees with you they are stupid? Really?


Once you gain some experience in life, you will learn no one can prove you stupid, you have to do that on your own.

Cobra64
09-05-2008, 21:51
You don't have to believe any chain letter . Just listen to the bs that comes out of his mouth , or look at who his friends are and what they are on the record for saying and doing.

Agreed. Unfortunately, too many people don't pay attention to the facts. Every day he proves what he is.

Since I've been accused of "b.s. propoganda," perhaps some folks may want to Google this:

ayers + obama

SGT45
09-05-2008, 23:11
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't think we need a president with a mid-eastern name, especially when we are at war with a Mid-eastern Country. There are many others reason's I don't want him as President, but I don't feel like getting into it now.

cookekdjr
09-06-2008, 06:05
Agreed. Unfortunately, too many people don't pay attention to the facts. Every day he proves what he is.

Since I've been accused of "b.s. propoganda," perhaps some folks may want to Google this:

ayers + obama

Here ya go:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/21/experts-obama-ayers-ad-ma_n_120495.html

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/08/obama-responds.html

cookekdjr
09-06-2008, 06:10
Could you please show proof of the "ground noise" and "static" comment.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/04/mccain-speech-interrupted_n_124106.html?page=3&show_comment_id=15358475#comment_15358475

striker6126
09-06-2008, 08:51
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/04/mccain-speech-interrupted_n_124106.html?page=3&show_comment_id=15358475#comment_15358475

One would think that someone so interested in the facts would do a little more home work before SPEAKING OUT OF TURN.

The "ground noise" and "static" comment was directed at a code pink ahole that was being escorted out of the building by security . One that gained entrance by using a MSNBC press pass. Wonder how thay got that?????

cookekdjr
09-06-2008, 10:57
One would think that someone so interested in the facts would do a little more home work before SPEAKING OUT OF TURN.

The "ground noise" and "static" comment was directed at a code pink ahole that was being escorted out of the building by security . One that gained entrance by using a MSNBC press pass. Wonder how thay got that?????

You obviously did not read the whole article. The primary heckler was an Iraq war vet. Here is his interview (which you could have accessed via the link you failed to read in full):

INTERVIEW WITH MCCAIN HECKLER ADAM KOKESH.

Kokesh, a passionate Ron Paul supporter, is 26 and a member of Iraq Veterans Against the War. He served in Fallujah in 2004, grew up in Santa Fe, and currently lives in Washington, D.C. He has a website.

At the beginning of McCain's speech, Kokesh held up a sign reading, "McCain Votes Against Vets" and yelled, "Ask him why he votes against vets!" I followed as Kokesh was escorted out of the Excel Center by security, handcuffed by local police, and then briefly questioned while security debated whether or not the Secret Service would get involved. They did not. He was then escorted off the premises and allowed to go free. I interviewed him just outside the security gates, where he was greeted happily by antiwar protesters.
Why were you here in the Twin Cities? And how did you get into the Excel Center?
I was here in Minneapolis for the IVAW convention and thought I’d stick around for this.

Well I’ve been a Ron Paul supporter since the beginning of this campaign. Since before this campaign started, actually, I’ve been a fan of Paul. So I’ve got a lot of friends in the Ron Paul crowd. And he’s got a lot of delegates in there. More than the Republican Party is willing to admit. And the fact that I got into there is proof of that. One of Paul’s alternate delegates got me a guest pass.

Were you surprised to be handcuffed? Or are you just relieved you were not arrested or detained longer?

I was actually expecting to get manhandled much sooner. [During the heckling], someone was grabbing my belt and pulling on me. And then someone pulled the sign out of my hands.

Do you feel your protest was effective?

Well I wasn’t so much trying to interrupt the speech as make the point that McCain has a horrible voting record on veterans. What the Republican Party is doing with their take on the war in Iraq is spinning it in such a way that it’s about victory or defeat. But they can’t face up to the fact that you can’t win an occupation. In an occupation, everybody loses. What we’re calling for is an immediate withdrawal of all occupying forces in Iraq.

cookekdjr
09-06-2008, 11:06
The "ground noise" and "static" comment was directed at a code pink ahole that was being escorted out of the building by security . One that gained entrance by using a MSNBC press pass. Wonder how thay got that?????

You must be talking about something else or have your facts wrong. The Iraq war vet clearly says:

Well Iíve been a Ron Paul supporter since the beginning of this campaign. Since before this campaign started, actually, Iíve been a fan of Paul. So Iíve got a lot of friends in the Ron Paul crowd. And heís got a lot of delegates in there. More than the Republican Party is willing to admit. And the fact that I got into there is proof of that. One of Paulís alternate delegates got me a guest pass.

Javelin
09-06-2008, 11:12
If I had to make a choice between Obama and a random lottery for the next President. Obama would have to get a ticket like everyone else.

I just could not ethically say a racist liberal such as Obama should wear the Chief Citizen, Chief Diplomat, or Commander in Chief hat. Period.

-Javelin

striker6126
09-06-2008, 11:14
You must be talking about something else or have your facts wrong. The Iraq war vet clearly says:

Well Iíve been a Ron Paul supporter since the beginning of this campaign. Since before this campaign started, actually, Iíve been a fan of Paul. So Iíve got a lot of friends in the Ron Paul crowd. And heís got a lot of delegates in there. More than the Republican Party is willing to admit. And the fact that I got into there is proof of that. One of Paulís alternate delegates got me a guest pass.

The vets supporting Paul or Paul's delegates are not the part in question. The fact you said he called vet's "ground noise" and "static" is wrong . He called the code pink protester that was being led out by security "ground noise" and "static" not vets. If you watched or will watch the speach it is clear where he directed his comment .

cookekdjr
09-06-2008, 12:08
If I had to make a choice between Obama and a random lottery for the next President. Obama would have to get a ticket like everyone else.

I just could not ethically say a racist liberal such as Obama should wear the Chief Citizen, Chief Diplomat, or Commander in Chief hat. Period.

-Javelin

Looks like you differ when compared to quite a few retired generals:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NttDOQcO2bM

cookekdjr
09-06-2008, 12:14
The vets supporting Paul or Paul's delegates are not the part in question. The fact you said he called vet's "ground noise" and "static" is wrong . He called the code pink protester that was being led out by security "ground noise" and "static" not vets. If you watched or will watch the speach it is clear where he directed his comment .

No, it was directed at the vet who started it. Which is why the title of the article is:

McCain Speech Interrupted by Iraq Vet Heckler

instead of McCain speech interrupted by code pink protester.

The Ron Paul-supporting Iraq vet was the guy led out in handcuffs and interviewed on the scene by the reporter. He was the guy who started it, questioning why McCain has turned his back on Iraq vets. And McCain never responded except for his comment about static and ground noise. Did McCain make some other response to the guy that I missed? If you know of one please share it with us.

cookekdjr
09-06-2008, 12:25
The vets supporting Paul or Paul's delegates are not the part in question. The fact you said he called vet's "ground noise" and "static" is wrong . He called the code pink protester that was being led out by security "ground noise" and "static" not vets. If you watched or will watch the speach it is clear where he directed his comment .

I think you need to also consider McCain's response in light of the larger context and how he acts towards veterans. Take this blog entry from Veterans for Common Sense, entitled McCain's Voting Record: He Does Not Support Our Troops and Veterans:

http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/articleid/9559

striker6126
09-06-2008, 12:53
No, it was directed at the vet who started it. Which is why the title of the article is:

McCain Speech Interrupted by Iraq Vet Heckler

instead of McCain speech interrupted by code pink protester.

The Ron Paul-supporting Iraq vet was the guy led out in handcuffs and interviewed on the scene by the reporter. He was the guy who started it, questioning why McCain has turned his back on Iraq vets. And McCain never responded except for his comment about static and ground noise. Did McCain make some other response to the guy that I missed? If you know of one please share it with us.

Watch starting at 0:30 until 1:10 no where was a Ron Paul supporter or a Vet . It was only the code pink libtard with a msnbc press pass that the comment in question was directed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6TAYQjLO1w&feature=related


Btw i am also a gulf war vet and i have no problem with Mccain. The vets I know do not believe that just because we served this GREAT COUNTRY that anyone owes us anything.

cookekdjr
09-06-2008, 13:07
Watch starting at 0:30 until 1:10 no where was a Ron Paul supporter or a Vet . It was only the code pink libtard with a msnbc press pass that the comment in question was directed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6TAYQjLO1w&feature=related


Btw i am also a gulf war vet and i have no problem with Mccain. The vets I know do not believe that just because we served this GREAT COUNTRY that anyone owes us anything.

Ok, I see where the confusion is. The interviews and reporting I've heard on this were that the code pink and vet protests were very close in time. I understood that the vet felt like the static comment etc was directed towards him. I can see why you would think otherwise in light of how the code pink person is shown on camera while the vet is not. I've followed this story on more than one outlet and it was understood based on the reporters present and the vet who was led away in handcuffs that they felt the static comment was directed towards him. Maybe McCain meant the comment only towards the code pink folks and was ignoring the vet (which is still pretty bad in my opinion to ignore the vets he supposedly cares about).

striker6126
09-06-2008, 13:18
Ok, I see where the confusion is. The interviews and reporting I've heard on this were that the code pink and vet protests were very close in time. I understood that the vet felt like the static comment etc was directed towards him. I can see why you would think otherwise in light of how the code pink person is shown on camera while the vet is not. I've followed this story on more than one outlet and it was understood based on the reporters present and the vet who was led away in handcuffs that they felt the static comment was directed towards him. Maybe McCain meant the comment only towards the code pink folks and was ignoring the vet (which is still pretty bad in my opinion to ignore the vets he supposedly cares about).

The outlets that i have seen do show the vet holding a sign , however i have not seen anything that shows him being led out in cuffs (not saying it did not happen) I have read on other sites where they have said this but if anyone looks at the video evidence it is VERY clear who it was directed at.

As far as ignoring the vet , does anyone really expect some one making a speach to stop and engage in debate with them?

fishbone
09-06-2008, 14:34
yes he does and for the people who are afraid to loose their guns, play around and you might get to use them in iraq, voting for mcain:tongueout:

cookekdjr
09-06-2008, 20:23
Per Eric's sticky post at the top of the voting booth forum I am bowing out of this discussion.
I understand this is largely a conservative bunch. That's fine. I'm used to being a minority.
I would ask that, as this election grows closer, and the rhetoric and attack ads increase on both sides, that everyone here at GT not just accept any charge leveled at either candidate. I have found that almost every charge directed at Obama via an email (and many on Fox News) have been proven false. The emails are generally exposed on snopes by the time you get them. The Fox News stuff is generally cleared up on other networks that many here don't watch. But it is out there.
I would also ask that, there being two major choices left, that people here at GT actually watch the debates, then fact check them the next day. Be informed.
Finally, I 'd ask, since most folks here at GT are automatically going to vote for McCain, that you at least consider voting Obama. Check out his site. Read his response to the hatchet-job swift-boat biography that was released recently. See what his tax plan would actually do for you (for 99% of you, it will lower your taxes). Compare his voting record on veterans affairs vs. McCain's. See who has really flip-flopped and who has not. See how many retired generals support Obama vs. McCain.
If you still want to vote for McCain after comparing the two, fine. Vote your conscience. But I'd ask that you actually make an informed comparison.
Thanks for listening,

David

Thanis
09-07-2008, 14:18
No he is not even close to being presidential material although someone did mention some thing a little closer to his speed , a fry cook at McDonald's.

What is wrong with the 35 year old "fry cook." He could very well be the better choice. Seriously, look at some of these politicians, grown men who have large wallets and owe people. At least the "fry cook" would not owe some special interest clown (well other then Ronald, Wendy, and the BK guy).

Yes.

He was born in the United States and meets the age requirement. :tongueout:

I doubt the presidential election rarely produces the "best and most qualified canidate." It is just the best system we have at the moment. For example, most of you would not think I had the required experience, but I know I would do better then those clowns running now.

For example, take all issues off the table, just leave the war. Your "choice" is to vote for the guy who caws like a hawk or you vote for the guy that coos like a dove . Who knows what you will get from either. The more experienced issue will always come down to who is older, not who is most qualified. A lot of the "issues" that are talked about concerning who should be president don't even center around presidential issues. Now I bet you think I'm voting for Obama. I'm not.

The OP question is part of the problem. Instead of additing up the positive qualities of a canidate, people spend more time adding up the "whats wrong" list. That is why the only right answer to the OP would be the only qualities that can be quantified:

He was born in the United States and meets the age requirement. :tongueout:

Gun Shark
09-07-2008, 16:50
notice how Obama hasen't said how he was going to do all of the things he is promising to do if elected.

f8lranger4x4
09-07-2008, 19:44
no simply said

SW342
09-07-2008, 20:00
Again....I say NO:tongueout:

NRA_guy
09-08-2008, 06:24
Yes . . . but not of the United States.

Aikidoka
09-09-2008, 09:33
No. Nuff Said.

nnickatnight
09-09-2008, 09:54
Putting Osama Obama in charge of the country is like putting the paperboy in charge of the newspaper.

DenaliPark
09-11-2008, 16:09
Obama wins the presidency and mark my words he could, it's all over Mr & Mrs America, we will not recover from a second idiot calling 1600 Pennsylvania ave home in the past 30 years. No, we cannot survive another Jimmy Carter and thats just what we'd get in this closet muslims administration...

Hondov65
09-14-2008, 19:23
I think so at least that's how I'm voting he can talk the talk hopefully he can walk the talk.

Lady Glock
09-14-2008, 20:14
He's dangerous. He has absolutely NO useful experience that would convince me he is ready to represent our country.

striker6126
09-14-2008, 20:27
I hear N Korea might have a Presidential opening , I think he has the right mind set for that job.

Gun Shark
09-14-2008, 22:09
I hear N Korea might have a Presidential opening , I think he has the right mind set for that job.

I vote Palin for President

NRA_guy
09-15-2008, 06:09
Putting Osama Obama in charge of the country is like putting the paperboy in charge of the newspaper.I don't think we are allowed to use the word "boy" in the same sentence as "Obama". It violates his civil rights or something.

Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton will organize a rally outside your house tomorrow morning. :rofl:

flynjump
09-16-2008, 22:37
NO NO NO!

OneGlock19
09-18-2008, 12:36
I wonder what would be said about Colin Powell...

Looks like some thinely vailed racism in here...

bryceban
09-18-2008, 20:14
I wonder what would be said about Colin Powell...

Looks like some thinely vailed racism in here...

Racism huh......where do you see the racism?
I see a gun forums common interest and opinion being expressed.
Oh, and some good ole red blooded, freedom loving Americans!
Sorry, but you are the enemy to most here........whether you feel it's fair or unfair.

Cobra64
09-18-2008, 20:26
I think so at least that's how I'm voting he can talk the talk hopefully he can walk the talk.

You should listen to what he says. Across the board weapons bans, tremendous tax increases, nationalising business. He is an avowed Marxist. Do some research and see for yourself.

William Ayers, Bernadette Dohrn, William Wright, Pfleuger, the Fanny Mae/Freddy Mac fiasco where he was the #2 recipient of funds. The list is endless.

Heads of terrorist islamic countries hopes he wins. Does that say anything?

Good luck and best wishes to you.

.

Cobra64
09-18-2008, 20:30
I don't think we are allowed to use the word "boy" in the same sentence as "Obama". It violates his civil rights or something.

Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton will organize a rally outside your house tomorrow morning. :rofl:

Naaa. The LA Times referred to him as "The Magic Negroe " and no one got upset because the press is in the tank for democrats.

OneGlock19
09-20-2008, 10:53
Racism huh......where do you see the racism?
I see a gun forums common interest and opinion being expressed.
Oh, and some good ole red blooded, freedom loving Americans!
Sorry, but you are the enemy to most here........whether you feel it's fair or unfair.

What makes me an enemy to anyone in here...?

I'm red blooded, love freedom, and was born and raised in America just like you...

SigPro2022
09-20-2008, 13:07
What makes me an enemy to anyone in here...?

I'm red blooded, love freedom, and was born and raised in America just like you...
You could be perceived as the enemy because you have been a member for exactly 6 days, have two posts and are cheerleading for perhaps the most anti-gun Presidential candidate in history. JMHO....:whistling:

OneGlock19
09-20-2008, 16:46
You could be perceived as the enemy because you have been a member for exactly 6 days, have two posts and are cheerleading for perhaps the most anti-gun Presidential candidate in history. JMHO....:whistling:

fair enough..

Misty02
09-20-2008, 18:10
I vote NO, but they said on the news tonight that 38million people tuned in to watch him give his acceptance speech the other night...

Wow, that's a whole lot of people.

Just because 38M watched does not mean they will be voting for him. You should always know what both sides say.

meshmdz
09-21-2008, 18:27
I watched his speech last night and was impressed.

I think the fact that so many watched his speech is also a sign of great interested (38+ million watched, according to the Nielsen ratings) in his candidacy.

I am looking forward to watching the RNC next week and of course, the Presidential debates... I think with Pallin being tapped by McCain, the VP debate will be very interesting to watch.

If Obama is elected (which I think he will be), I don't think much will change around our Second Amendment rights.

I agree. I think he will be elected and I dont think he or his administration is going to hurt our abilities/rights to own our glocks. The right to carry is a state right anyways. I think this nation is ready for a change from the past 8 years. It is because of this pervasive notion that I think that he will win. And Palin???Are you kidding me? :faint:

Lady Glock
09-21-2008, 19:15
I agree. I think he will be elected and I dont think he or his administration is going to hurt our abilities/rights to own our glocks. The right to carry is a state right anyways.
That could change if a bill is approved by the Senate and signed by the President. If the President is democrat and the house is majority democrats, they could change it from states rights to a federal issue
I think this nation is ready for a change from the past 8 years. It is because of this pervasive notion that I think that he will win.
The type of CHANGE Obama is capable of isn't what this country needs. He hasn't truly outlined any PLAN except he's going to lower taxes and increase spending...how do you think he's going to accomplish that? He can't do both so which one do you think he is most likely to concentrate on?
And Palin???Are you kidding me? :faint:What are your issues against Gov. Palin? She's the one person on the ticket that actually has some experience with economic issues.

17z
09-21-2008, 21:59
Obama said that if he is president,he will pass all gunlaws to be at the state legislatures thing. I myself have told his campaign workers that I will hold him accountable to that wording. Otherwise,,,,,,,,, I will be voting for MCAIN/PALIN ticket in November. I just do not trust Obama?Biden ticket as of when this soap oprea story started. I believe in life,liberty,and the pursuit to have the 2nd Admendment not ever to be infringed as signed by our founding fathers and the Supreme Court. 17z,Omaha,Ne.

flynjump
09-22-2008, 07:07
I wonder what would be said about Colin Powell...

Looks like some thinely vailed racism in here...

There you go playing the race card.... Race has nothing to do with my decision. I would vote for Colin Powell or Condi Rice in a heartbeat, (would rather have either one of them than McCain), but Obama is the most liberal of all members of congress ever, and also the most anti-gun politician ever. I could go on and on, but those two reasons are enough for me to vote against him.

SigPro2022
09-22-2008, 07:13
+1 I would gladly vote for anyone who supports my 2nd Amendment rights, regardless of race, creed, or color. The media in this country (and people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson) are largely responsible for keeping the race card a viable option in a minority candidates arsenal. Let's judge people on who they are, not their color.

kirgi08
09-22-2008, 07:42
+1 i would gladly vote for anyone who supports my 2nd amendment rights, regardless of race, creed, or color. The media in this country (and people like al sharpton and jesse jackson) are largely responsible for keeping the race card a viable option in a minority candidates arsenal. Let's judge people on who they are, not their color.

yep.'08.

BondGirl
09-22-2008, 17:38
NO, I do however think that he is a smooth talker and will say what he thinks people want to hear. But take a close look at his past record and you'll see for yourself.

Buki192327
09-22-2008, 19:48
ummm...to the grass roots?
Seriously, I understand you not liking his stance on some issues. I get that. But follow the money? Most of his contributions are less than $100 and come from average Americans.
Are you saying you don't like average folks? I'm afraid I don't understand. Did he suddenly get a payoff from somebody and it wasn't public knowledge? Help us out here...
thanks,

David

:steamed:You had better take a look at his long time friends, Ayers, Rev. Wright. etc. Ayers has bombed federal buildings, Rev. Wright, hates America. Look at the attitude of his associates towards the United States. This will tell you a lot about his attitude, about this country. Also, he has gotten very large contributions from the ousted heads of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Also his attitude toward our injured veterans, whan he was in Gemany, speaks volumes about him. His record in the Illinois senate also speaks volumes. TAX TAX TAX. He wants nothing more than to turn the United States into a socialist country, so th government can tell you what you can and cannot do. This man is not qualified to be President of the USA.

flynjump
09-22-2008, 22:56
:steamed:You had better take a look at his long time friends, Ayers, Rev. Wright. etc. Ayers has bombed federal buildings, Rev. Wright, hates America. Look at the attitude of his associates towards the United States. This will tell you a lot about his attitude, about this country. Also, he has gotten very large contributions from the ousted heads of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Also his attitude toward our injured veterans, whan he was in Gemany, speaks volumes about him. His record in the Illinois senate also speaks volumes. TAX TAX TAX. He wants nothing more than to turn the United States into a socialist country, so th government can tell you what you can and cannot do. This man is not qualified to be President of the USA.

A big Plus 1 here!

backbore
09-23-2008, 10:34
To answer the poll question. Yes he does, without a dought. What's troubling is the bitter and ignorant comments that I've read on these 6 pages and you know which ones I'm speaking of. May God bless us all, whichever candidate wins, we and he will need it.

kirgi08
09-23-2008, 10:46
To answer the poll question. Yes he does, without a dought. What's troubling is the bitter and ignorant comments that I've read on these 6 pages and you know which ones I'm speaking of. May God bless us all, whichever candidate wins, we and he will need it.

I would love ta see what you consider his list of qualifications are.'08.

Lady Glock
09-23-2008, 10:50
I would love ta see what you consider his list of qualifications are.'08.Ditto! He doesn't have any qualifications. He's got less than Palin and she isn't even running for the top spot.

backbore
09-23-2008, 10:53
I've read the pages preceding this one and can see that what ever answer I give you is attacked and dismissed by your ilk. I answered the question of the poll and left a comment like others. Not interested in being personally attacked here. If you'd like to contact me offline and have a meaningful exchange, I'd be delighted.

kirgi08
09-23-2008, 11:40
I've read the pages preceding this one and can see that what ever answer I give you is attacked and dismissed by your ilk. I answered the question of the poll and left a comment like others. Not interested in being personally attacked here. If you'd like to contact me offline and have a meaningful exchange, I'd be delighted.


Dude that was NOT a/n attack.It was a/n response ta a post.I DO NOT ATTACK PEOPLE.My posts are there,go look.I have disagreed with folk,but there are far worse 'round here.

I'm here ta learn and exchange ideas.'08.

backbore
09-23-2008, 12:30
I didn't say yours was an attack and if that was the implication I apologize as it wasn't my intent. My point is that after reading the other posts here I see that as a group, this isn't a very open one. Apparently you're an acception. In these situations I don't see a benefit in getting critiqued by numerous folk when I can only respond to one at a time meaninfully. All the "+1" and pile on's just don't make for anything but an electronic shout down. I've cast my vote (I think) made a comment and now will retire to the more pleasant areas like the classifieds. I'm just passing through here, thought I'd cast my vote utter a few words with my vote and move on.

meshmdz
09-23-2008, 13:06
I would love ta see what you consider his list of qualifications are.'08.

You asked. Here are a few of his qualifications. :wavey:

Opposed the Iraq war from the start.
Voted to end the war in Iraq.
Supports capturing and killing Osama Bin Laden.
Favors a $1000 tax cut for every working American family.
Will implement tax form simplification to reduce filing time.
Provide tax credit for all middle class homeowners.
Provide a tax cut for all families making less than $75,000 a year.
Amend NAFTA to protect American workers.
Amend NAFTA to strengthen environmental protections.
Providing Flex Ed training accounts for workers.
Extending Trade Adjustment assistance to service workers.
Supported Patriot Employer Act of 2007 that gives tax credits to large companies that keep workers here in America.
Double funds for basic federal research.
Implement a long term research and development tax credit.
Invest in green technologies.
Reduce carbon emission gases.
Tackle the challenges of global warming.
Create an energy focused youth jobs program.
Create Federal Renewable Portfolio Standard.
Extend the Production Tax Credit.
Expand Broadband into every community.
Keep the Internet tax free.
Expand high speed internet access in rural areas.
Fight for passage of Employee Free Choice Act.
Ensure freedom to unionize.
Would overturn "Kentucky River" classifications of Bush's NLRB
Protect rights of striking workers.
Increase the mininum wage to index it to inflation.
Crack down on predatory lenders.
Provide a universal mortgage tax credit for homeowners who don't itemize.
Sign the Stop Fraud Act to prevent lending fraud.
Mandate accurate loan disclosure.
Create a fund to protect people from foreclosures.
Close the bankruptcy loophole for mortgage companies.
Establish a credit card rating to improve disclosure.
Ban utilateral credit card charges.
Apply interest rate only to future debt.
Prohibit credit card interest on fees.
Prohibit Universal defaults.
Require prompt and fair crediting of cardholder payments.
Protect working people from unfair bankruptcy laws.
Ban executive bonuses for bankruptcy companies.
Require disclosure of pension investments.
Cap outlandish interest rates on payday loans.
Implement legislation to drive unscrupulous lenders out of business
Create a bankruptcy exemption for people that went broke because of medical bills.
Double funding for after school programs.
Extend Family and Medical Leave Act.
Encourage states to adopt Paid leave.
Expand the Child Care Tax Credit
Supports ratification of UN Convention Rights of Persons With Disabilities.
Supports independent, community based living for people with disabilities.
Expand educational opportunities for people with disabilities.
Expand job opportunities for people with disabilities.
Strengthen civil rights enforcement.
Sign into law the Fair Pay Act.
Sign law reversing recent SCOTUS rulings that permitted discrimination against women.
Sign law reversing recent SCOTUS rulings that permitted discrimination against racial minorities.
Strengthen federal hate crimes legislation.
Eliminate the sentence disparities regarding crack cocaines.
Establish drug courts for first time, non violent offenders.
Create a prison to work incentive for those transitioning back into society.
Passed a law to prohibit the practice of racial profiling.
Supported reauthorizing the Voting Rights Act.
Opposes all discriminatory barriers to voting.
Helped reform death penalty system in Illinois to protect innocent people on death row.
Voted to ban cluster bombs.
Provide high quality affordable child care to families.
Will quadruple Early Head Start funding.
Will increase Head Start funding.
Creates early learning challenge grants.
Abolish overly rigid teach to the test curriculum in schools.
Improve accountability in public schools.
Invest in intervention strategies to reduce dropout rates in schools.
Increase funding for afterschool programs.
Supports Step Up program to increase summer learning opportunities.
Support English language learner programs.
Expand college outreach programs.
Create teacher service scholarships.
Requires all public schools to be accredited.
Create teacher residency programs.
Create the American Opportunity Tax Credit for higher education.
Streamline financial aid application.
Introduced legislation to increase Pell Grant to $5,100.
Reduce carbon emissions by 80% by 2050.
Confront deforestation.
Promote carbon sequestration.
Accelerate commercialization of plug in hybrids.
Promote development of commercial scale renewable energy.
Invest in low emission coal plants.
Transition to new electric digit grid.
Double science funding for clean energy products.
Create Green Jobs Corps.
Invest in programs to help manufacturers make transition to green products.
Create clean technologies venture capital fund.
Deploy cellulosic ethanol.
Expand locally owned biofuel refineries.
Increase renewable fuel standards.
Establish national low carbon fuel standard.
Increase fuel economy standards.
Invest in solar energy.
Invest in wind energy.
Establish a centralized database to track lobbyist activities.
Appoint an independent watchdog group to oversee congressional ethic violations.
Favors campaign finance reform.
Sunshine on legislation proposal.
End abuse of no bid contracts.
Release presidential records in a more timely fashion.
Prevent political appointees from working as lobbyists within two years after employment has ended.
Reform political appointment process.
Sign ethics legislation that he proposed as a Senator with Russ Feingold.
Obama sponsored a bi-partisan bill allowing regular people to track federal grants.
Take leadership in the global fight against AIDS.
Provide tax cuts to small businesses.
Provide income tax cuts for all senior citizens making $50,000 a year or less.
Expand the Earned Income Tax Credit.
Protect workers from caregiver discrimination.
Increase mentoring programs for beginner teachers.
Provide universal health care for all Americans within 4 years.
Combat fraudulent subprime loans.
Expand Nurse Family Partnership.
Provide automatic workplace pensions for workers.
Expand savings credit for retirement accounts.
Reinstate pay as you go budget rules.
Repeal Bush tax cuts for top 1% which led to lower middle class standard of living.
Slash earmarks to pre 2001 levels.
Abolish obsolete wasteful government programs.
Voted against raising the minimum debt in 2006.
Supports wiping out Al Qaeda wherever they may be.
Opposed Kyl Lieberman.
Supports tough attempts at diplomacy with Iran to protect America's interests.
Will work to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Restrengthen NATO.
Passed a bipartisan law with Senator Lugar to prevent smuggling of WMDs.
Introduced a bill with Senator Hagel to reduce nuclear arsenals around the globe.
Supports securing loose nuke arsenals from the former Soviet Union and elsewhere.
Strengthen Non Nuclear Proliferation Treaty.
Expand size of Army by 65,000.
Expand size of Marines by 27,000.
Provide our troops with new equipment and the tools they need.
Provide National Service troops with adequate leave time.
Will insulate the Director of National Intelligence from partisan politics.
Guarantee that health care can never be denied because of a pre-existing condition.
Introduce a health care plan similar to the one members of Congress have and give all Americans access to this plan.
Simplify the paperwork in health care costs.
Make premiums and co pays affordable.
Require mandatory coverage of all children for health care.
Expand SCHIP.
Expand Medicaid.
Reduce costs of catastrophic illnesses for employers and employees.
Support disease management programs.
Require hospitals and providers to have full transparency over costs.
Promote patient safety by requiring providers to report medical errors.
Establish an independent institute to guide reviews + research on comparative effectiveness in health care.
Strengthen anti trust laws to prevent insurance companies from gouging medical providers.
Lower medical costs by having electronic health info systems.
Increase competition in prescription drug markets.
Advance biomedical research field.
Improve mental care coverage.
Reduce mercury deposits to help prevent miscarriages.
Increase funding for autism research.
Cosponsored Healthy Kids Act of 2007.
Cosponsored reauthorization of SCHIP in 2007.
Obama introduced legislation to establish guidelines to monitor fuels from nuclear power plants.
Sponsored a bill with Senator Lautenberg to protect chemical plants from possible terrorist attacks.
Introduced legislation to upgrade monitoring of water supplies.
Introduced legislation to protect localities from radioactive leaks.
Create secure borders with additional personnel and infrastructure.
Remove incentives for people to enter this country illegally.
Crack down on employers who hire illegal immigrants.
Invest in transitional jobs.
Improve transportation access to jobs.
Fully fund community block grants.
Create an affordable housing trust fund.
Establish a program called 20 Promise Neighborhoods.
Invest in rural areas, especially small businesses, schools, and doctors.
Implement a payment limitation program to help small farmers.
Protect family farms from anti-competitive monopolies.
Implement tough fines for CAFO violations.
Establish country of origin labeling for all products.
Support regional food systems.
Encourage organic farming.
Provide tax credits for young farmers.
Increase capital for small farmers.
Modify FCC so all rural residents have access to modern communications.
Upgrade rural infrastructure.
Supported legislation to reverse 2 billion dollars of agriculture cuts under Bush.
Cosponsored Emergency Farm Relief

Lady Glock
09-23-2008, 13:23
SNIPSounds like he wants the Federal government to be involved in many places where they don't belong.

How does he plan to cut taxes and yet fund all the special programs and entitlements he plans to institute? Not doable!

I don't want the government to tell me I don't qualify for medical treatment because I am overweight or because I have diabetes or because I have some other disqualification that keeps me from deserving treatment. I don't want to die waiting to see a doctor who is telling me I have to wait my turn (months) before I can get in.

CPT_CRUNCH
09-23-2008, 13:37
yes!!!

meshmdz
09-23-2008, 20:33
Sounds like he wants the Federal government to be involved in many places where they don't belong.

How does he plan to cut taxes and yet fund all the special programs and entitlements he plans to institute? Not doable!

I don't want the government to tell me I don't qualify for medical treatment because I am overweight or because I have diabetes or because I have some other disqualification that keeps me from deserving treatment. I don't want to die waiting to see a doctor who is telling me I have to wait my turn (months) before I can get in.

Lady Glock, I am not a member of his staff so I cannot tell you how he plans to do it. However, I can tell you where he is going to start... He will raise taxes on those who make over $200,000.00 a year and roll back tax breaks for big corporations who write off taxes as philanthropy.

You have healthcare right? Then do not worry about universal healthcare. Under Obama's plan, you will be entitled to keep your healthcare plan private if you so desire. The socialized healthcare is going to be enacted for those people who DO NOT have healthcare. How can any decent American be against other Americans having the right to see a doctor when they are sick? It will not take away your private healthcare through whomever you have it with.

bryceban
09-23-2008, 21:11
Lady Glock, I am not a member of his staff so I cannot tell you how he plans to do it. However, I can tell you where he is going to start... He will raise taxes on those who make over $200,000.00 a year and roll back tax breaks for big corporations who write off taxes as philanthropy.

You have healthcare right? Then do not worry about universal healthcare. Under Obama's plan, you will be entitled to keep your healthcare plan private if you so desire. The socialized healthcare is going to be enacted for those people who DO NOT have healthcare. How can any decent American be against other Americans having the right to see a doctor when they are sick? It will not take away your private healthcare through whomever you have it with.

Raise taxes on those making over $200k a year..........Don't get me wrong I don't make that much YET but I do not think it is American to punish and penalize someone for being successful and making a good living.

Universal health care is not as great as it sounds.............health care is a priveledge not a god given right. A tax raise is in order to provide health care for everyone. Ask someone from Canada how much a six pack of Carona cost them. The quality of health care will go down for those of us who work and contribute to society. Ask a doctor what he thinks about universal health care.

Think about this-Does some over weight, cigarette smoking, unemployed, wellfare collecting slob have the same right to a heart transplant as your insured children?

flynjump
09-23-2008, 21:51
Raise taxes on those making over $200k a year..........Don't get me wrong I don't make that much YET but I do not think it is American to punish and penalize someone for being successful and making a good living.

Universal health care is not as great as it sounds.............health care is a priveledge not a god given right. A tax raise is in order to provide health care for everyone. Ask someone from Canada how much a six pack of Carona cost them. The quality of health care will go down for those of us who work and contribute to society. Ask a doctor what he thinks about universal health care.

Think about this-Does some over weight, cigarette smoking, unemployed, wellfare collecting slob have the same right to a heart transplant as your insured children?


Bryceban, I was going to make the same comments you just did, I am glad I scrolled down before replying to Meshmdz. Obama will have this entire country banckrupt before his first year is up. All the socialists.. er, Liberals want to do is reward people for sitting home and contributing nothing to society, and make all of us who work hard pay for those that sit home. Why do you think that the leaders of the communist party in America praise Obama's ideas. (So does the President of Iran, Ahmadinejad, for that matter).

Doc Blase
09-23-2008, 22:16
Yes. Though I supported a different candidate in the primaries.

Lady Glock
09-23-2008, 23:52
Lady Glock, I am not a member of his staff so I cannot tell you how he plans to do it. However, I can tell you where he is going to start... He will raise taxes on those who make over $200,000.00 a year and roll back tax breaks for big corporations who write off taxes as philanthropy. Raising taxes on those who make over $200K will end up bankrupting the country. Do you think those people can truly afford to take up the slack for everyone else? If they are forced to do so, it will cause the largest episode of layoffs ever seen in American history. It's the practice of wealth distribution (from those who have to those who have not) that will destroy our economy.

You have healthcare right? Then do not worry about universal healthcare. Under Obama's plan, you will be entitled to keep your healthcare plan private if you so desire. The socialized healthcare is going to be enacted for those people who DO NOT have healthcare. How can any decent American be against other Americans having the right to see a doctor when they are sick? It will not take away your private healthcare through whomever you have it with.To enact any form of socialized healthcare will ruin our current form of healthcare by causing providers to decide it isn't worth it to work in the industry. They will be strictly limited in how much they can charge and strictly regulated by the government in every aspect of their practice. You will see a large group of providers retire and no-one up and coming to fill the void. Hense...waiting for months to see a provider for care. People dying waiting their turn, being turned away because they have too many "issues" that disqualify them for care. Restriction put on our every day way of life just so we can qualify for care.

People need to wake up and realize that a marxist is not what this country needs. The "change" that obama will leave us with will be the pennies we have in our pocket after he takes everything else for our own good!

kirgi08
09-24-2008, 07:08
You asked. Here are a few of his qualifications. :wavey:

Opposed the Iraq war from the start.
Voted to end the war in Iraq.
Supports capturing and killing Osama Bin Laden.
Favors a $1000 tax cut for every working American family.
Will implement tax form simplification to reduce filing time.
Provide tax credit for all middle class homeowners.
Provide a tax cut for all families making less than $75,000 a year.
Amend NAFTA to protect American workers.
Amend NAFTA to strengthen environmental protections.
Providing Flex Ed training accounts for workers.
Extending Trade Adjustment assistance to service workers.
Supported Patriot Employer Act of 2007 that gives tax credits to large companies that keep workers here in America.
Double funds for basic federal research.
Implement a long term research and development tax credit.
Invest in green technologies.
Reduce carbon emission gases.
Tackle the challenges of global warming.
Create an energy focused youth jobs program.
Create Federal Renewable Portfolio Standard.
Extend the Production Tax Credit.
Expand Broadband into every community.
Keep the Internet tax free.
Expand high speed internet access in rural areas.
Fight for passage of Employee Free Choice Act.
Ensure freedom to unionize.
Would overturn "Kentucky River" classifications of Bush's NLRB
Protect rights of striking workers.
Increase the mininum wage to index it to inflation.
Crack down on predatory lenders.
Provide a universal mortgage tax credit for homeowners who don't itemize.
Sign the Stop Fraud Act to prevent lending fraud.
Mandate accurate loan disclosure.
Create a fund to protect people from foreclosures.
Close the bankruptcy loophole for mortgage companies.
Establish a credit card rating to improve disclosure.
Ban utilateral credit card charges.
Apply interest rate only to future debt.
Prohibit credit card interest on fees.
Prohibit Universal defaults.
Require prompt and fair crediting of cardholder payments.
Protect working people from unfair bankruptcy laws.
Ban executive bonuses for bankruptcy companies.
Require disclosure of pension investments.
Cap outlandish interest rates on payday loans.
Implement legislation to drive unscrupulous lenders out of business
Create a bankruptcy exemption for people that went broke because of medical bills.
Double funding for after school programs.
Extend Family and Medical Leave Act.
Encourage states to adopt Paid leave.
Expand the Child Care Tax Credit
Supports ratification of UN Convention Rights of Persons With Disabilities.
Supports independent, community based living for people with disabilities.
Expand educational opportunities for people with disabilities.
Expand job opportunities for people with disabilities.
Strengthen civil rights enforcement.
Sign into law the Fair Pay Act.
Sign law reversing recent SCOTUS rulings that permitted discrimination against women.
Sign law reversing recent SCOTUS rulings that permitted discrimination against racial minorities.
Strengthen federal hate crimes legislation.
Eliminate the sentence disparities regarding crack cocaines.
Establish drug courts for first time, non violent offenders.
Create a prison to work incentive for those transitioning back into society.
Passed a law to prohibit the practice of racial profiling.
Supported reauthorizing the Voting Rights Act.
Opposes all discriminatory barriers to voting.
Helped reform death penalty system in Illinois to protect innocent people on death row.
Voted to ban cluster bombs.
Provide high quality affordable child care to families.
Will quadruple Early Head Start funding.
Will increase Head Start funding.
Creates early learning challenge grants.
Abolish overly rigid teach to the test curriculum in schools.
Improve accountability in public schools.
Invest in intervention strategies to reduce dropout rates in schools.
Increase funding for afterschool programs.
Supports Step Up program to increase summer learning opportunities.
Support English language learner programs.
Expand college outreach programs.
Create teacher service scholarships.
Requires all public schools to be accredited.
Create teacher residency programs.
Create the American Opportunity Tax Credit for higher education.
Streamline financial aid application.
Introduced legislation to increase Pell Grant to $5,100.
Reduce carbon emissions by 80% by 2050.
Confront deforestation.
Promote carbon sequestration.
Accelerate commercialization of plug in hybrids.
Promote development of commercial scale renewable energy.
Invest in low emission coal plants.
Transition to new electric digit grid.
Double science funding for clean energy products.
Create Green Jobs Corps.
Invest in programs to help manufacturers make transition to green products.
Create clean technologies venture capital fund.
Deploy cellulosic ethanol.
Expand locally owned biofuel refineries.
Increase renewable fuel standards.
Establish national low carbon fuel standard.
Increase fuel economy standards.
Invest in solar energy.
Invest in wind energy.
Establish a centralized database to track lobbyist activities.
Appoint an independent watchdog group to oversee congressional ethic violations.
Favors campaign finance reform.
Sunshine on legislation proposal.
End abuse of no bid contracts.
Release presidential records in a more timely fashion.
Prevent political appointees from working as lobbyists within two years after employment has ended.
Reform political appointment process.
Sign ethics legislation that he proposed as a Senator with Russ Feingold.
Obama sponsored a bi-partisan bill allowing regular people to track federal grants.
Take leadership in the global fight against AIDS.
Provide tax cuts to small businesses.
Provide income tax cuts for all senior citizens making $50,000 a year or less.
Expand the Earned Income Tax Credit.
Protect workers from caregiver discrimination.
Increase mentoring programs for beginner teachers.
Provide universal health care for all Americans within 4 years.
Combat fraudulent subprime loans.
Expand Nurse Family Partnership.
Provide automatic workplace pensions for workers.
Expand savings credit for retirement accounts.
Reinstate pay as you go budget rules.
Repeal Bush tax cuts for top 1% which led to lower middle class standard of living.
Slash earmarks to pre 2001 levels.
Abolish obsolete wasteful government programs.
Voted against raising the minimum debt in 2006.
Supports wiping out Al Qaeda wherever they may be.
Opposed Kyl Lieberman.
Supports tough attempts at diplomacy with Iran to protect America's interests.
Will work to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Restrengthen NATO.
Passed a bipartisan law with Senator Lugar to prevent smuggling of WMDs.
Introduced a bill with Senator Hagel to reduce nuclear arsenals around the globe.
Supports securing loose nuke arsenals from the former Soviet Union and elsewhere.
Strengthen Non Nuclear Proliferation Treaty.
Expand size of Army by 65,000.
Expand size of Marines by 27,000.
Provide our troops with new equipment and the tools they need.
Provide National Service troops with adequate leave time.
Will insulate the Director of National Intelligence from partisan politics.
Guarantee that health care can never be denied because of a pre-existing condition.
Introduce a health care plan similar to the one members of Congress have and give all Americans access to this plan.
Simplify the paperwork in health care costs.
Make premiums and co pays affordable.
Require mandatory coverage of all children for health care.
Expand SCHIP.
Expand Medicaid.
Reduce costs of catastrophic illnesses for employers and employees.
Support disease management programs.
Require hospitals and providers to have full transparency over costs.
Promote patient safety by requiring providers to report medical errors.
Establish an independent institute to guide reviews + research on comparative effectiveness in health care.
Strengthen anti trust laws to prevent insurance companies from gouging medical providers.
Lower medical costs by having electronic health info systems.
Increase competition in prescription drug markets.
Advance biomedical research field.
Improve mental care coverage.
Reduce mercury deposits to help prevent miscarriages.
Increase funding for autism research.
Cosponsored Healthy Kids Act of 2007.
Cosponsored reauthorization of SCHIP in 2007.
Obama introduced legislation to establish guidelines to monitor fuels from nuclear power plants.
Sponsored a bill with Senator Lautenberg to protect chemical plants from possible terrorist attacks.
Introduced legislation to upgrade monitoring of water supplies.
Introduced legislation to protect localities from radioactive leaks.
Create secure borders with additional personnel and infrastructure.
Remove incentives for people to enter this country illegally.
Crack down on employers who hire illegal immigrants.
Invest in transitional jobs.
Improve transportation access to jobs.
Fully fund community block grants.
Create an affordable housing trust fund.
Establish a program called 20 Promise Neighborhoods.
Invest in rural areas, especially small businesses, schools, and doctors.
Implement a payment limitation program to help small farmers.
Protect family farms from anti-competitive monopolies.
Implement tough fines for CAFO violations.
Establish country of origin labeling for all products.
Support regional food systems.
Encourage organic farming.
Provide tax credits for young farmers.
Increase capital for small farmers.
Modify FCC so all rural residents have access to modern communications.
Upgrade rural infrastructure.
Supported legislation to reverse 2 billion dollars of agriculture cuts under Bush.
Cosponsored Emergency Farm Relief


Those are his views/agenda/s.Not his qualifications.'08.

kirgi08
09-24-2008, 07:10
How much real world experience does he have?.'08.

meshmdz
09-24-2008, 07:41
How will raising taxes on those that make nearly a quarter million dollars annually "BANKRUPT" the country? Bankrupting the country is exactly what is happening right now with the 2 largest mortgage companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac going under the way they are. The government is intervening (very un-Republican though isnt it???) and preventing a potentially catastrophic economical recession.

Why do people that ALREADY have healthcare care about universal healthcare? Your plans will still be available and for you if Obama's plan goes as he says it will. Doctors in Germany and England do not make as much as doctors in the USA do, you are correct. However, they are paid approximately $200,000.00 a year. The problem in the USA is that people are greedy and want all they want no matter what it costs them or others. WHat ever happened to helping out those that are the least amongst us? Isnt "Christian principle" something that Republicans harp on and have to count on every election to win? Where is their principle in their policies?

Are people going to abuse the system? Yes. Will people take advantage of any program? Yes. Does that mean that it is wholistically wrong? No. Universal healthcare will help more than it will hurt.

meshmdz
09-24-2008, 07:44
This is an interesting article and touches on some very true aspects of American lifestyle.






American politicians frequently disparage the systems of Universal Health Care that are so popular in Canada and most of Europe. They claim that America's health care system is the best in the world (rightly), and ask rehetorically, "How would you like to get your health care at the DMV?"

No one likes a slow government beuracracy, so that argument generally wins the day, carried along by pride in America capitalism. But the problem with that argument is what it doesn't say.

For one thing, they're not telling you about the billions of dollars American families spend on health care. They're not telling you that half of all bankruptcies declared in 2004 came as the result of medical emergencies--and half of those people had medical insurance.

They're also not telling you that the American people are sicker--and fatter--than any other industrialized nation on earth. We work longer, and take pride in that. But we also subject ourselves to more stress in the process, giving ourselves less rest and less time to recover. Then there is our diet. But I'll get to that in a moment.

The bottom line is that America has the highest levels of obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer in the world. America has the best health care system in the world because America needs it--and the American people pay the price for it--in dollars, in sickness, and in lost time on the job after sickness, as well as lost time with family and friends leading up to it.

Universal Health Care provides a marvelous antidote to that situation--not because of the diseases it cures, but rather because of the diseases it prevents.

Simply put, Universal Health Care empowers governments to act on behalf of the populace. Is something driving up health care costs? Then enact regulations to remove the causes, so they go back down. There are three areas in which the government action has made a huge differences in places like Canada and Europe. We'll look at each of the separately:

* Leisure time
* Environment
* Diet

Leisure Time

It seems like a small thing, but leisure time is hugely important when it comes to health. Canada and Europe place hard limits on the number of hours in a day, the number of days in a week, and the number of weeks in a year. Some Americans get a feeling of superiorty because we work harder and longer, but America is paying the price.

American are more alienated from friends and family than any other culture on earth. We rush through more meals, bolt down more egregiously harmful foodstuffs, and literally work ourselves to death.

Countries with systems of Universal Health Care are generally more concerned with human welfare at the outset, which is one reason they instituted that system. But, once in place, such a country is also in a position to balance it's Gross Domestic Output (GDP) with the billions it's spending on health care costs. The result is a system that balances the needs of corporations with those of the people who work in them.

In America, in contrast, the government is more concerned with GDP. Of course, we also spend billions on Medicare and Medicaid, so you think we would wake up and smell the roses. But as large as the amount is, the bulk of health care money comes from individuals and insurance companies--all of which adds to the GDP. So, on paper at least, disease-prevention is not one of government's primary concerns.
Environment

In one respect--occupational safety--America leads the world. America has a right to be proud of that fact. But in other respects, America is far down the list of developed nations in its concern for the environment--and that lack of concern is reflected in our health care costs.

What it all boils down to, really, is a simple case of short-sightedness. When someone loses an arm or a leg--or even their life--we can see that. So we take the steps necessary to prevent future occurences. As a result we have the most stringent occupational-safety standards in the world.

But when we foul the air, pollute the water, and fill our foods with dangerous ingredients, the problems generally don't appear until decades later. It was exactly the same with smoking. The long term health consequences were disastrous, but since the short term effects were essentially unnoticable, we let that situation go on for more than a century.

It is a fact of life that people tend not to weigh the long term consequences of everything they do. Some people plan for their financial future. Most don't. Some people work hard to understand what they need to know to make sure they're breathing clean air, drinking clean water, and eating healthy foods. Most don't.

In the ideal world, we depend on goverment to take the long range view. In fact, government probably began as an organized effort to store grain against future famine. Taxes evolved from the percentage of the harvest that was allotted for that purpose. If everyone saved, of course, there would be no need for such measures. But the fact are that everyone doesn't save; everyone doesn't plan for the financial future; everyone doesn't make the best decisions with respect to food, air, and water--and society, as well as individuals, pay a big price for the oversight.

Universal Health Care gives government the incentive to prevent the air and water pollution that precipitates cancer in the unhealthy body. And it gives government the incentive to make sure that people have access to the healthy foods and exercise they need to ward off the obesity, diabetes, cancer, and heart disease that are such high levels in America.
Diet

There are ingredients in the American food supply that are making people sick--ingredients that are illegal in Canada and Europe, for that very reason. But while the Canadian and European systems of Universal Health Care gave those governmental bodies the incentive to outlaw those ingredients for the sake of public health, there is currently no such incentive in America. Those ingredients include:

* Partially hydrogenated oils. Much cheaper than butter, but 100 times more deadly. Illegal in Canada and Europe, but the best we've managed here is a labeling law that is too weak to remove it completely. In addition the most common hydrogenated oil is soybean oil, it depresses the thyroid, which lowers energy levels and leads to obesity. For more information, see What's Wrong with Partially Hydrogenated Oils?, and Trans Fat Labeling is Nearly Useless.

* High Fructose Corn Syrup. Massively high levels of sugar, which create an insulin spike that leads to obesity and diabetes. But that's not the worst of it. Fructose breaks down into formaldehyde in the body. In the quanties found in fruit, that's not a problem--especially because the fiber ensures that it enters the system at a manageable rate. But in the concentrated amounts found in HFCS, it's deadly--even more so, because most of the flour-based products that contain it have virtually no fiber whatsoever, so it floods your body in high doses. Then there is the fact that corn oil, like soy, depresses the thyroid. (Both are used to fatten cows for slaughter, because they're cheap and so effective.)

* Genetically Modified Foods. Health effects unknown. They're a major gamble--part of a huge social experiment. Illegal in Europe and Canada. We can't even get them labeled in America.
* Fluoroide. A by-product of aluminum production that cities are paying to put in their driinking water. Do you remember how to spell A-l-z-h-e-i-m-e-r-'s? The last city in Europe that fluoridated their drinking water (a city in Switzerland) recently stopped. There is some evidence that fluoride will bond with the surface of a child's tooth, strengthening the enamel. There is therefore some potential justification for using it in children's toothpaste. There is no justification whatever for using it in adult dental products, and absolutely zero reason to be ingesting the stuff. (Perhaps you recall that there was a study showing a city that reduced the number of cavities they had when their water was fluoridated. Less well known is the nearby control city whose water wasn't fluoridated. When their cavity levels were found to be lowered as well, they were dropped from the study! --Albert Carter, "The Healthy Cell Concept", Chapter 11 of The New Miracles of Rebound Exercise.)

Summary

When it comes to the quality of the food, the air, the water, and lifestyle, Canada and Europe consistently rank ahead of America. American prides itself on being more productive, but pays a huge cost for doing so. The additional productivity gives us a somewhat better standard of living, at the cost of a greatly reduced quality of life.

Government looks at GDP, and sees big numbers. But a big part of those numbers comes at the cost of human suffering and tragedy, as people spend their last dime attempting to recover from diseases that they should never have incurred.

With Universal Health Care, government begins to account for health problems properly--as a reduction in available resources, instead of as a contribution to GDP. And that fact may be the single most important of Universal Health Care, even if you ever use it. In fact, the very existence of Universal Health Care may give you the best possible chance that you'll never need it.

meshmdz
09-24-2008, 07:45
Some other interesting reading on myths surrounding univ. healthcare.



1. Why doesn’t the United States have universal health care as a right of citizenship? The United States is the only industrialized nation that does not guarantee access to health care as a right of citizenship. 28 industrialized nations have single payer universal health care systems, while 1 (Germany) has a multipayer universal health care system like President Clinton proposed for the United States.

2. Myth One: The United States has the best health care system in the world.

* Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990

* Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960

* Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.

* Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana

* Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease, and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.

* Conclusion: The United States ranks poorly relative to other industrialized nations in health care despite having the best trained health care providers and the best medical infrastructure of any industrialized nation

3. Myth Two: Universal Health Care Would Be Too Expensive

* Fact One: The United States spends at least 40% more per capita on health care than any other industrialized country with universal health care

* Fact Two: Federal studies by the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accounting office show that single payer universal health care would save 100 to 200 Billion dollars per year despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits.

* Fact Three: State studies by Massachusetts and Connecticut have shown that single payer universal health care would save 1 to 2 Billion dollars per year from the total medical expenses in those states despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits

* Fact Four: The costs of health care in Canada as a % of GNP, which were identical to the United States when Canada changed to a single payer, universal health care system in 1971, have increased at a rate much lower than the United States, despite the US economy being much stronger than Canada’s.

* Conclusion: Single payer universal health care costs would be lower than the current US system due to lower administrative costs. The United States spends 50 to 100% more on administration than single payer systems. By lowering these administrative costs the United States would have the ability to provide universal health care, without managed care, increase benefits and still save money

4. Myth Three: Universal Health Care Would Deprive Citizens of Needed Services

* Fact One: Studies reveal that citizens in universal health care systems have more doctor visits and more hospital days than in the US

* Fact Two: Around 30% of Americans have problem accessing health care due to payment problems or access to care, far more than any other industrialized country. About 17% of our population is without health insurance. About 75% of ill uninsured people have trouble accessing/paying for health care.

* Fact Three: Comparisons of Difficulties Accessing Care Are Shown To Be Greater In The US Than Canada (see graph)

* Fact Four: Access to health care is directly related to income and race in the United States. As a result the poor and minorities have poorer health than the wealthy and the whites.

* Fact Five: There would be no lines under a universal health care system in the United States because we have about a 30% oversupply of medical equipment and surgeons, whereas demand would increase about 15%

* Conclusion: The US denies access to health care based on the ability to pay. Under a universal health care system all would access care. There would be no lines as in other industrialized countries due to the oversupply in our providers and infrastructure, and the willingness/ability of the United States to spend more on health care than other industrialized nations.

5. Myth Four: Universal Health Care Would Result In Government Control And Intrusion Into Health Care Resulting In Loss Of Freedom Of Choice

* Fact One: There would be free choice of health care providers under a single payer universal health care system, unlike our current managed care system in which people are forced to see providers on the insurer’s panel to obtain medical benefits

* Fact Two: There would be no management of care under a single payer, universal health care system unlike the current managed care system which mandates insurer preapproval for services thus undercutting patient confidentiality and taking health care decisions away from the health care provider and consumer

* Fact Three: Although health care providers fees would be set as they are currently in 90% of cases, providers would have a means of negotiating fees unlike the current managed care system in which they are set in corporate board rooms with profits, not patient care, in mind

* Fact Four: Taxes, fees and benefits would be decided by the insurer which would be under the control of a diverse board representing consumers, providers, business and government. It would not be a government controlled system, although the government would have to approve the taxes. The system would be run by a public trust, not the government.

* Conclusion: Single payer, universal health care administered by a state public health system would be much more democratic and much less intrusive than our current system. Consumers and providers would have a voice in determining benefits, rates and taxes. Problems with free choice, confidentiality and medical decision making would be resolved

6. Myth Five: Universal Health Care Is Socialized Medicine And Would Be Unacceptable To The Public

* Fact One: Single payer universal health care is not socialized medicine. It is health care payment system, not a health care delivery system. Health care providers would be in fee for service practice, and would not be employees of the government, which would be socialized medicine. Single payer health care is not socialized medicine, any more than the public funding of education is socialized education, or the public funding of the defense industry is socialized defense.

* Fact Two: Repeated national and state polls have shown that between 60 and 75% of Americans would like a universal health care system (see The Harris Poll #78, October 20, 2005)

* Conclusion: Single payer, universal health care is not socialized medicine and would be preferred by the majority of the citizens of this country

7. Myth Six: The Problems With The US Health Care System Are Being Solved and Are Best Solved By Private Corporate Managed Care Medicine because they are the most efficient

* Fact One: Private for profit corporation are the lease efficient deliverer of health care. They spend between 20 and 30% of premiums on administration and profits. The public sector is the most efficient. Medicare spends 3% on administration.

* Fact Two: The same procedure in the same hospital the year after conversion from not-for profit to for-profit costs in between 20 to 35% more

* Fact Three: Health care costs in the United States grew more in the United States under managed care in 1990 to 1996 than any other industrialized nation with single payer universal health care

* Fact Four: The quality of health care in the US has deteriorated under managed care. Access problems have increased. The number of uninsured has dramatically increased (increase of 10 million to 43.4 million from 1989 to 1996, increase of 2.4% from 1989 to 1996- 16% in 1996 and increasing each year).

* Fact Five: The level of satisfaction with the US health care system is the lowest of any industrialized nation.

* Fact Six: 80% of citizens and 71% of doctors believe that managed care has caused quality of care to be compromised

* Conclusion: For profit, managed care can not solve the US health care problems because health care is not a commodity that people shop for, and quality of care must always be compromised when the motivating factor for corporations is to save money through denial of care and decreasing provider costs. In addition managed care has introduced problems of patient confidentiality and disrupted the continuity of care through having limited provider networks.

8. Overall Answer to the questions Why doesn’t the US have single payer universal health care when single payer universal health care is the most efficient, most democratic and most equitable means to deliver health care? Why does the United States remain wedded to an inefficient, autocratic and immoral system that makes health care accessible to the wealthy and not the poor when a vast majority of citizens want it to be a right of citizenship?

Conclusion: Corporations are able to buy politicians through our campaign finance system and control the media to convince people that corporate health care is democratic, represents freedom, and is the most efficient system for delivering health care

9. What you can do about this through your state Green Party

* Work to pass a single payer, universal health care bill or referendum in your state. State level bills and referenda will be most effective because a federal health care system might in fact be too bureaucratic, and because it is not politically realistic at this time.

* Bills or referendum must be written by and supported by health care providers for the legislature to take them seriously. It is thus imperative to form an alliance with provider groups. The most effective provider group to go through is Physicians For A National Health Program which has chapters in every state (see hand out for partial listing of contact people). A number of states already have organized single payer efforts: Massachusetts, California, Washington, Oregon, New Mexico, and Maryland. Join with them.

* A first step is to contact state representatives from PNHP and offer to join with them to write and support a bill bringing single payer, universal health care to your state if this has not already been done. The Connecticut and Massachusetts Bills can be used as models to make this task easier (email us at riverbnd@javanet.com and we will send you copies of the bills). A referendum is another way to go, in which case the California referendum can be used as a model.

* A second step is to contact state legislators and find a group who are willing to sponsor such a bill.

* A third step is to create a coalition of groups to work together to support and publicize this work, or to try to bring together existing groups to work together on this project. Labor unions, progressive democratic groups, Medicare/Senior Advocacy groups, the Labor Party, the Reform Party, UHCAN, existing health care advocacy groups, and state health care provider groups are all imporatnt to work with and get to join such a coalition. The state medical society and state hospital association are critical to work with in order to get any legislation passed. Try to get them to work with you to design a new model for health care delivery. They will be particularly concerned about who will control the system, and be very mistrustful of government. A public trust model with participation by providers, hospitals, business, the public and government is like to be much more acceptable to them than a pure government system. Emphasize doing away with managed care, and get them to try and work with you to find other ways to control costs (necessary to convince politicians) such as quality assurance standards, which will also protect them from malpractice

* A fourth step is to give talks in support of your bill or referendum where ever possible. Senior groups, medical staffs, church groups, high school assemblies, and labor unions are particularly good sources. Excellent materials including slides, a chart book and videos are available through PNHP.

* A fifth step is to raise money through fund raisers, contributions and benefits held by entertainers. Benefits are particularly useful in bringing out people who you can inform about single payer, universal health care and your efforts.

* A sixth step is to develop media access. The creation of videos that can be shown on local cable access TV stations is very effective. Newspaper articles, letters to the editor, and articles by the press are critical. Radio interviews and radio talk shows are important.

* Getting the public to write and call their state representatives in support of a proposed bill is critical, as is coordinating testimony at a public hearing.

* Because the data about single payer universal health care are so revealing of the problems with corporate America, and because the US citizenry is so concerned and dissatisfied with our health care system these efforts may yield surprisingly positive results and be helpful in establishing the Green Party in the US as a party of the people, by the people and for the people.

kirgi08
09-24-2008, 08:58
That does not answer my main querry.As long as courts accept/listen to spurious lawsuits in this country,A/n UHC system is futile.I'm gonna pick thru your post/s/Time.

You seem ta forget the the Houses run this country,His policies are all dependent on the seated Congress/Senate whims.As ta the tax hike bankrupting the country,those GREEDY mortgage brokers did FINE without a/n tax hike..Gov should have let those institutions crash and burn.Instead of throwing good money after bad.Now if that $700Billion bailout happens that will be a/n cost ta each person of $100,000 ta pay.There is no Saint in this Fiasco.Rep/Dem/Lib they are all GUILTY of A/GREED-B/DENIAL till it was too late.

Granted my horses didn't get out the gate and there are enough places ta place blame in this mess.

Obama doesn't have the world view experience ta deal with that crap goin on in Georgia./Pick a region.


The Office of the President needs ta take care of our interests worldwide.

The state Governors need ta take care of there own.'08.

Lady Glock
09-24-2008, 09:30
How will raising taxes on those that make nearly a quarter million dollars annually "BANKRUPT" the country? Bankrupting the country is exactly what is happening right now with the 2 largest mortgage companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac going under the way they are. The government is intervening (very un-Republican though isnt it???) and preventing a potentially catastrophic economical recession.You start expecting those people to support the rest of the country and they will eventually go broke or close up shop. THAT is what will bankrupt the country.

Why do people that ALREADY have healthcare care about universal healthcare? Your plans will still be available and for you if Obama's plan goes as he says it will. Doctors in Germany and England do not make as much as doctors in the USA do, you are correct. However, they are paid approximately $200,000.00 a year.Universal health care is but one tiny step from socialized health care. I don't want the government making the decisions on who deserves to be treated and who doesn't. The problem in the USA is that people are greedy and want all they want no matter what it costs them or others. WHat ever happened to helping out those that are the least amongst us? Isnt "Christian principle" something that Republicans harp on and have to count on every election to win? Where is their principle in their policies?

Are people going to abuse the system? Yes. Will people take advantage of any program? Yes. Does that mean that it is wholistically wrong? No. Universal healthcare will help more than it will hurt.Helping people should be a personal decision, charity begins in the heart, not at gun point. The government has no right to take my money and give it to the poor. The poor have a choice, they can choose to work to better themselves instead of sitting on their duffs expecting a handout!

There isn't one person in this country who hasn't had the same opportunity as any other in being able to make themselves wealthy with their own sweat and imagination.

CPT_CRUNCH
09-24-2008, 15:32
You start expecting those people to support the rest of the country and they will eventually go broke or close up shop. THAT is what will bankrupt the country.

Universal health care is but one tiny step from socialized health care. I don't want the government making the decisions on who deserves to be treated and who doesn't. Helping people should be a personal decision, charity begins in the heart, not at gun point. The government has no right to take my money and give it to the poor. The poor have a choice, they can choose to work to better themselves instead of sitting on their duffs expecting a handout!

There isn't one person in this country who hasn't had the same opportunity as any other in being able to make themselves wealthy with their own sweat and imagination.
Lady Glock, you're pretty naive w/ your thoughts. our country is FULL of people who dont have the same opportunities, for wealth or many other things. its these type of broad-brush beliefs that divide our country so much. and also the reason that AMERICA needs a president that is FULL aware of all problems that need fixing.
OBAMA in 2008, YES WE CAN!!!

cookekdjr
09-24-2008, 20:22
I just have to say what a nice surprise it is to see how this conversation has gone since I left. That is all.

meshmdz
09-24-2008, 20:37
Its a good thing that both sides of the aisle are present here on GT.

SigPro2022
09-24-2008, 21:20
A vote for Obama is a vote for gun control. Period.......

Lady Glock
09-24-2008, 22:07
Lady Glock, you're pretty naive w/ your thoughts. our country is FULL of people who dont have the same opportunities, for wealth or many other things. its these type of broad-brush beliefs that divide our country so much. and also the reason that AMERICA needs a president that is FULL aware of all problems that need fixing.
OBAMA in 2008, YES WE CAN!!!Everyone has the same opportunity to make it rich on their own. All they have to do is apply themselves. Go to work, earn their own way. Quit expecting the government to give them the freebies (Hint...it's not free, it came from someone's hard work). If they would get off their lazy duffs and work, they may be able to earn the 200,000 needed to get in the top bracket and start paying for all the other lowlifes who sit around waiting for their welfare checks.:steamed::dunno:

SigPro2022
09-24-2008, 22:12
Well said Lady Glock. :wavey:

meshmdz
09-24-2008, 23:45
People that vote for the President of the USA based on ONE issue are foolish, in my opinion.

kirgi08
09-25-2008, 08:21
Lady Glock, you're pretty naive w/ your thoughts. our country is FULL of people who dont have the same opportunities, for wealth or many other things. its these type of broad-brush beliefs that divide our country so much. and also the reason that AMERICA needs a president that is FULL aware of all problems that need fixing.
OBAMA in 2008, YES WE CAN!!!

Look at your Sig Line.You might as well set up for registration and then CONFISCATION.'08.

kirgi08
09-25-2008, 08:28
People that vote for the President of the USA based on ONE issue are foolish, in my opinion.

People that vote for a candidate that will take away all of the 2a are naive.Hitler comes ta mind,His firearms registration pretty much led ta his racial extermination policies.

The 2a is there ta protect the other amendments.A vote for the Dems will pretty much cancel all that.

Are Ye so enamored with political rhetoric that ye have forgotten THAT.'08.

kirgi08
09-25-2008, 08:51
Everyone has the same opportunity to make it rich on their own. All they have to do is apply themselves. Go to work, earn their own way. Quit expecting the government to give them the freebies (Hint...it's not free, it came from someone's hard work). If they would get off their lazy duffs and work, they may be able to earn the 200,000 needed to get in the top bracket and start paying for all the other lowlifes who sit around waiting for their welfare checks.:steamed::dunno:

YES Ma'am,Well said.Every person that is born in this country has the same shot as any other.Be it your born rich or poor.Those that are born inta a/n welfare cycle will sit back and await there monthly stipend.Those that are born inta this and cry B/S will bust there as es ta get outta this cycle..Gov is a harsh and unrelenting Mistress/Addict.The more they get the more they think they deserve.Deserve ain't got nothing ta do with it.The folk here bust there arses ta make ends meet.Granted there are some wealthy folk here and some poor.But they don't whine about it.They go out and work and do there best for there wives/kids and God.Most don't camp out at the mailbox waiting for there stipend and witch about this and or that.

I see this EVERYDAY.I pay my taxes and beyond that leave me and mine alone.I fend for my family.I don't need .Gov ta do it for me.'08.:steamed:

kirgi08
09-25-2008, 08:54
BTW,I ain't seen my original ??? answered.What real life/world credentials does the Dem candidate have.Must of missed it.'08. :dunno:

gunsite
09-25-2008, 09:22
Do you think Barack Obama has the necessary qualities to be President?

barry has NO qualities to think about.

meshmdz
09-25-2008, 09:53
People that vote for a candidate that will take away all of the 2a are naive.Hitler comes ta mind,His firearms registration pretty much led ta his racial extermination policies.

The 2a is there ta protect the other amendments.A vote for the Dems will pretty much cancel all that.

Are Ye so enamored with political rhetoric that ye have forgotten THAT.'08.

You are off the rocker if you think that the Democrats are going to take away your 2nd Amendment. Thats typical republican whining tactics. :rofl: Your entire party is built around fear mongering... YOU CANT WIN without telling people that the TERRORISTS are going to come get em unless we stay in wars. You CANT WIN by merely giving policy to people. WHy? They have none! The American people have seen the Republican way of doing things and they are tired of it! Your entire party is nothing more than a fear mongering mud slinging group of aristocrats in DC that have a bunch of po-dunk rednecks, especially in the SOuth, brainwashed and fooled into undying Hitler-ish support, bc they have convinced you that "dem Dems gonna take uh-way ur gunssss and fags uh-gunna get merried..." Its laughable. And to come on GT, where we talk about sidearms, and see a thread like this, is funny.

oh yea and some idiot on another thread, posted a a question asking if he thought anyone would make an attempt on Obama's life? WHAT A FOOL!:faint::steamed:

cookekdjr
09-25-2008, 10:19
Everyone has the same opportunity to make it rich on their own. All they have to do is apply themselves. Go to work, earn their own way. Quit expecting the government to give them the freebies (Hint...it's not free, it came from someone's hard work). If they would get off their lazy duffs and work, they may be able to earn the 200,000 needed to get in the top bracket and start paying for all the other lowlifes who sit around waiting for their welfare checks.:steamed::dunno:

Or the richest 1/10th of 1% of our country who are waiting fot a $7,000,000,000,000 welfare check...after they made 10's of millions of dollars a year each selling these bad mortgages with the highest bond rating available. Maybe they could get off their lazy butts....
You are right, maybe if more welfare moms weren't so darn lazy they could better fund this bailout for the rich guys. Some of these guys may have to sell one of their seven houses (no wait, that's McCain, these guys have more houses than that).
You are right, its the lazy people on welfare who caused all this...:upeyes:

kirgi08
09-25-2008, 10:20
You are off the rocker if you think that the Democrats are going to take away your 2nd Amendment. Thats typical republican whining tactics. :rofl: Your entire party is built around fear mongering... YOU CANT WIN without telling people that the TERRORISTS are going to come get em unless we stay in wars. You CANT WIN by merely giving policy to people. WHy? They have none! The American people have seen the Republican way of doing things and they are tired of it! Your entire party is nothing more than a fear mongering mud slinging group of aristocrats in DC that have a bunch of po-dunk rednecks, especially in the SOuth, brainwashed and fooled into undying Hitler-ish support, bc they have convinced you that "dem Dems gonna take uh-way ur gunssss and fags uh-gunna get merried..." Its laughable. And to come on GT, where we talk about sidearms, and see a thread like this, is funny.

oh yea and some idiot on another thread, posted a a question asking if he thought anyone would make an attempt on Obama's life? WHAT A FOOL!:faint::steamed:

I'll make this short and sweet.I AM not a/n Republican.I'm a seperatist.I don't care if a/n human is purple/brindle or anyother color.Go about your business and I'll go about mine.

Okay,Let's get this STRAIGHT.Who/M signed the AWB.B/Clinton.'08.

Just so you remember he was/is.-Insert your title here-.And He violated every precept in the code of conduct for a/n Married man.And you wanta vote for a/n more militant Dem that has NO/NONE experience in world affairs.What cognitive Senate Committee has he served on.? None that I know of.Your Candidate is a/n result of desperation in the Dem party ta put one that speaks as well as B/Clinton in office.

There is no substance 2 him.NONE.He is a Face/Voice for the Dems.PERIOD.'08.

Lady Glock
09-25-2008, 11:43
Or the richest 1/10th of 1% of our country who are waiting fot a $7,000,000,000,000 welfare check...after they made 10's of millions of dollars a year each selling these bad mortgages with the highest bond rating available. Maybe they could get off their lazy butts....
You are right, maybe if more welfare moms weren't so darn lazy they could better fund this bailout for the rich guys. Some of these guys may have to sell one of their seven houses (no wait, that's McCain, these guys have more houses than that).
You are right, its the lazy people on welfare who caused all this...:upeyes:
It's not the company CEOs of every company in the world that sold bad mortgages. It was those who were directly involved in Freddie mac and Fannie Mae. Maybe those who sold the loans should be held responsible, not every CEO in the country who dares to make money with their sweat and imagination.

I'm a single mom, bustin my butt working to support my kids. I'm not sitting on my arse expecting a government handout.

I didn't say this "bailout" was the fault of single moms or those on welfare, I said taxes should apply equally across the board instead of the government trying to force income redistribution. (from those who have to those who have not)

That's only one of the bad "policies" that BHO has in mind for the minions of this country who would be stupid enough to put him in office.

meshmdz
09-25-2008, 17:32
Lady Glock, props and respect for you working and supporting your kids by yourself.

Lady Glock
09-25-2008, 19:10
Lady Glock, props and respect for you working and supporting your kids by yourself. Thank you. Their mine...it's my job, not everyone else.

SigPro2022
09-25-2008, 22:37
People that vote for the President of the USA based on ONE issue are foolish, in my opinion.

Gun owners who vote for anti-gun candidates are foolish, in my opinion.:whistling:

kirgi08
09-26-2008, 06:45
It's not the company CEOs of every company in the world that sold bad mortgages. It was those who were directly involved in Freddie mac and Fannie Mae. Maybe those who sold the loans should be held responsible, not every CEO in the country who dares to make money with their sweat and imagination.

I'm a single mom, bustin my butt working to support my kids. I'm not sitting on my arse expecting a government handout.

I didn't say this "bailout" was the fault of single moms or those on welfare, I said taxes should apply equally across the board instead of the government trying to force income redistribution. (from those who have to those who have not)

That's only one of the bad "policies" that BHO has in mind for the minions of this country who would be stupid enough to put him in office.

You go girl.'08.

SW342
09-26-2008, 08:29
Short answer - NO!

Lady Glock
09-26-2008, 09:34
Short answer - NO!Short, sweet and to the point! I like that! :wavey::rofl:

cookekdjr
09-26-2008, 09:56
I didn't say this "bailout" was the fault of single moms or those on welfare, I said taxes should apply equally across the board instead of the government trying to force income redistribution. (from those who have to those who have not)

Exactly. Everybody should pay the 15% tax rate that the richest in this country pay, not the 30-something % that you and I pay. But that will never happen. You will always pay more in taxes than the rich people you vote to protect. Enjoy.

meshmdz
09-26-2008, 10:21
Its like Robin Hood. Take from the rich, and give to the poor.

ldcarson
09-26-2008, 11:03
Absolutely Not...No.../end thread....

farnhamj
09-27-2008, 07:07
Umm....NO!!!

I will take the POW, military, senator, experienced canidate over the Community Organizer.

Rusty Shaklford
09-28-2008, 00:05
Question is do you think Biden has the Experiance to be president.

kirgi08
09-28-2008, 07:45
Question is do you think Biden has the Experiance to be president.

He has much more political experience than Obama does.Could he run it/No.He'd be as much a puppet as Obama is a face/voice.'08.

Dean
09-28-2008, 08:02
Yes. But so what? Gore and Kerry did too.
A million guys have the skill and experience to be US president.
I don't think that's ever been the selection criteria, has it?

BManoftheyear
09-28-2008, 08:17
Obama = no more guns. I think the NRA will even have a tough time with this clown, if elected.

That is the only thing most of the people on here are worried about.
You wont lose your firearms.

I really think most of the people would rather keep a GWB type president instead of getting the economy back into shape

BManoftheyear
09-28-2008, 08:19
Umm....NO!!!

I will take the POW, military, senator, experienced canidate over the Community Organizer.

That is what is gonna ruin our damn country.PPL here see oh POW and think he is the one.I respect what he has done for the country in the past but I doubt he will do anything good in the future

SW342
09-28-2008, 09:01
I feel like voting NO AGAIN TODAY.....

kirgi08
09-28-2008, 09:01
Yes. But so what? Gore and Kerry did too.
A million guys have the skill and experience to be US president.
I don't think that's ever been the selection criteria, has it?

It's all about perception.It's what you make the public/polls see.A/N off base example.Remember how all the folk were worried about JFK/Him bein Catholic,Was he gonna answer ta the Pope or the people.

It's what each individual voter perceives of each one that is standing for election.And that criteria is a very whimsical.

Obama is a/n eloquent speech giver and has a dynamic personality.

McCain is an old hand and has his service record ta stand for him.He speaks fairly well and is to the point.

It will boil down ta the VP candidates.Biden party surfs and Palin is a/n newbie.

Folks IMHO it will boil down ta the fact that the country would rather trust a/n women/unproven-yes ta the whims of Biden.Remember all,that ALOT of Hilliary supporters will vote that way because they just don't like Obama/Biden.Why,they are VINDICTIVE and don't like the fact that B/Hilliary was knocked out.'08.

farnhamj
09-28-2008, 10:56
That is what is gonna ruin our damn country.PPL here see oh POW and think he is the one.I respect what he has done for the country in the past but I doubt he will do anything good in the future

Lets see...he did something in the past, ie military, POW, etc, he is doing something now, ie, senator, writing and actually VOTING on topics, etc, and I think he will do alot of good in the futer.

What has OB done...explain community organizer to me(did he set up the 5k walk on the new airport last week?:dunno:) and the fact that he voted 130 times "HERE" which means a no vote...cant make a decision as senator of Illinois, yet you still want him to make decisions as president. GET REAL!

ScottFF00
09-29-2008, 13:47
Is Palin qualified to be VP?

Remember, she is one old mans heart beat away from being President.

Lady Glock
09-29-2008, 13:53
Is Palin qualified to be VP?

Remember, she is one old mans heart beat away from being President.
She's more qualified to be VP than Obama is to be Pres. :rofl:

meshmdz
09-29-2008, 14:32
That is the only thing most of the people on here are worried about.
You wont lose your firearms.

I really think most of the people would rather keep a GWB type president instead of getting the economy back into shape

Yea, you are on GLock Talk... :upeyes: I agree though. And to say that Palin is more qualified than Obama and Biden is LAUGHABLE. Obama/Biden has FAR MORE the experience on it than McCain/Palin. Biden is the 3rd longest seating US Senator in the chamber.

1. Robert Byrd
2. Ted Kennedy
3. Joe Biden

I am feeling good about this election because I know Obama is going to win and all the McCain supporters are going to be crying and *****ing for the next 4 years. :rofl:

And how much are ya willing to bet, I will still be going to the range every week, shooting my Glocks? :supergrin::supergrin:

meshmdz
09-29-2008, 14:34
She's more qualified to be VP than Obama is to be Pres. :rofl:

:laughabove::pms::panties: Obama is going to win. Sorry.

SigPro2022
09-29-2008, 18:34
That is the only thing most of the people on here are worried about.
You wont lose your firearms.
This is a gun forum, what else would you expect?...:whistling:

farnhamj
09-29-2008, 19:59
she's more qualified to be vp than obama is to be pres. :rofl:
+++++1

cookekdjr
09-29-2008, 21:21
She's more qualified to be VP than Obama is to be Pres. :rofl:

Are you laughing at the foolishness of your own remark? I am :rofl:

Perhaps you noticed that Saturday Night Live did not have to change Palin's answers for their opening skit. They actually used her real, actual answers. Think about that.
Now compare how many people Obama represented in his State Senate district (several hundred thousand) and then as a US Senator (millions) to Palins experience.
Then compare Obama's to Abe Lincoln's.

Obama comes out on top every time. Disagree with Obama's policies. OK, fine.
Call him unqualified? That's just not based on reality and the history of the presidency.

Oh, by the way. Ask Palin to name one, just one, Supreme Court case besides Row v. Wade. She'll have tp get back to you. Seriously:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/29/latest-palin-gaffe-cant-n_n_130395.html

Lady Glock
09-29-2008, 22:00
Yea, you are on GLock Talk... :upeyes: I agree though. And to say that Palin is more qualified than Obama and Biden is LAUGHABLE. Obama/Biden has FAR MORE the experience on it than McCain/Palin. Biden is the 3rd longest seating US Senator in the chamber.

1. Robert Byrd
2. Ted Kennedy
3. Joe Biden

I am feeling good about this election because I know Obama is going to win and all the McCain supporters are going to be crying and *****ing for the next 4 years. :rofl:

And how much are ya willing to bet, I will still be going to the range every week, shooting my Glocks? You poor little misguided liberal. Stock up on Kleenix, you're gonna need it to wipe your nose when you can't stop :crying: that you didn't get your way. :supergrin:

LANDON DUNN
09-29-2008, 22:15
No boma's

Lady Glock
09-29-2008, 23:16
Are you laughing at the foolishness of your own remark? I am :rofl:

Perhaps you noticed that Saturday Night Live did not have to change Palin's answers for their opening skit. They actually used her real, actual answers. Think about that.
Now compare how many people Obama represented in his State Senate district (several hundred thousand) and then as a US Senator (millions) to Palins experience.
Then compare Obama's to Abe Lincoln's.

Obama comes out on top every time. Disagree with Obama's policies. OK, fine.
Call him unqualified? That's just not based on reality and the history of the presidency.

Oh, by the way. Ask Palin to name one, just one, Supreme Court case besides Row v. Wade. She'll have tp get back to you. Seriously:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/29/latest-palin-gaffe-cant-n_n_130395.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/29/latest-palin-gaffe-cant-n_n_130395.html)
She is Governer of the largest US State by area, and the 6th wealthiest (per capita income). She has control over more financial matters than Biden (or obama). She's down to earth, doesn't conform to the *Elite* and will truly work to serve the American people, not the Washington bureaucrats

Obama spent 138(?) days in the Senate and couldn't even make a decision on many of the bills that came up for vote. He chose instead to vote "present" a large % of the time. He has missed 306 (24%) of 1287 votes since Jan 6, 2005. He can't even be counted on to do the job he was being paid to do, I can't believe people want to trust him to do the job of protecting our country.

kirgi08
09-30-2008, 00:33
Yea, you are on GLock Talk... :upeyes: I agree though. And to say that Palin is more qualified than Obama and Biden is LAUGHABLE. Obama/Biden has FAR MORE the experience on it than McCain/Palin. Biden is the 3rd longest seating US Senator in the chamber.

1. Robert Byrd
2. Ted Kennedy
3. Joe Biden

I am feeling good about this election because I know Obama is going to win and all the McCain supporters are going to be crying and *****ing for the next 4 years. :rofl:

And how much are ya willing to bet, I will still be going to the range every week, shooting my Glocks? :supergrin::supergrin:

Since the Heller decision has neutered the Gun Grabbing Dems what recourse do they have? Hope you enjoy shooting your Glocks at $50 a pull.Fools they deserve there FATE.'08.

cookekdjr
09-30-2008, 06:42
Obama spent 138(?) days in the Senate and couldn't even make a decision on many of the bills that came up for vote. He chose instead to vote "present" a large % of the time. He has missed 306 (24%) of 1287 votes since Jan 6, 2005. He can't even be counted on to do the job he was being paid to do, I can't believe people want to trust him to do the job of protecting our country.

Your research stinks. Please educate yourself enough about Obama's record to speak intelligently about it. Obama has been a State Senator, and a US Senator. He has been a US Senator for several years.
The US Senate does not have a "present" vote. Only Yes or No.
The Illinois Senate does have a "present" vote, and it is an accepted practice in that body.
By the way, how does Obama's percentage of votes cast compare to McCain's?

gunsite
09-30-2008, 09:52
She's more qualified to be VP than Obama is to be Pres. :rofl:

that's true, people don't know with their talking about when they talk about Sarah's lack of experience.


Lack of experience belongs to barry, he has none, barry been in politics a few years as a person in charge of nothing, and accountable to know one. He was a lawyer ACORN...lol, and a community organizer which means he was a block organizer/agitator. The few years barry has been in the senate 2 of those years has been getting groomed to run for president. People don't talk about his lack of experience, my god, all his political experience was voting, and i can't remember how many times he couldn't make a decision between Ya or Na, so he voted present.

This guy is empty, he has nothing, where is all the media walking through his hood, you know... the community that he did his organizing in.

Funny....
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/hello_barack_this_is_your_teleprompter/

SW342
09-30-2008, 10:29
If it's ok with you guys.....I want to vote NO AGAIN --- NOBAMA!

cookekdjr
09-30-2008, 10:42
that's true, people don't know with their talking about when they talk about Sarah's lack of experience.


Lack of experience belongs to barry, he has none, barry been in politics a few years as a person in charge of nothing, and accountable to know one. He was a lawyer ACORN...lol, and a community organizer which means he was a block organizer/agitator. The few years barry has been in the senate 2 of those years has been getting groomed to run for president. People don't talk about his lack of experience, my god, all his political experience was voting, and i can't remember how many times he couldn't make a decision between Ya or Na, so he voted present.
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/hello_barack_this_is_your_teleprompter/

A challenge to you: Name one day, ONE DAY, ONE DAY when Obama voted "present" in the US Senate.
If you can't do it, take it back. Put up or shut up.

kirgi08
09-30-2008, 10:44
If it's ok with you guys.....I want to vote NO AGAIN --- NOBAMA!

<<<<Don't have a prob at all.'08.

Don At PC
09-30-2008, 12:42
A very loud "NO".

MasterShake
09-30-2008, 13:19
He's about as qualified as my nephew is, he is 8 and goes to the YMCA. :rofl:

Obama is only as good as his teleprompter.

meshmdz
09-30-2008, 17:28
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g288/meshmdz/veterans.jpg

cookekdjr
09-30-2008, 20:23
gunsite,
still waiting for you to name any day when Obama voted "present" in the U.S. Senate. Still waiting.
Extra bonus question: name ANY US Senator who has voted "present".

meshmdz
09-30-2008, 21:00
cooke, alot of fellas on here are good guys but they just spout rhetoric they hear and take it as fact.

stetson
09-30-2008, 21:15
No ,but the young voters love him.Just go to any college and you see nothing but his posters and his supporters including faculty polluting young minds!

meshmdz
09-30-2008, 22:30
No ,but the young voters love him.Just go to any college and you see nothing but his posters and his supporters including faculty polluting young minds!

You are right and wrong.

Right - college campuses are very excited about a President Obama. :supergrin:

Wrong - profs arent polluting, they are exposing the ass of the Bush admins past 8 years as if there was ever any real need for further explanation. :rofl: a consequence is OBAMA supporters galore!!! :supergrin::supergrin:

SigPro2022
09-30-2008, 22:46
cooke, alot of fellas on here are good guys but they just spout rhetoric they hear and take it as fact.
Kind of like the way the Obama faithful spread the rhetoric they here.

meshmdz
09-30-2008, 23:05
Kind of like the way the Obama faithful spread the rhetoric they here.

Not really, its more like we believe and understand the stance of the candidate we support as a fix to the **** the Republican party has presided over and allowed to go to hell. Its more like that.

kirgi08
10-01-2008, 01:15
It's Kinda Ironic.You wear the uniform and are anti 2A.Your Candidate sure is.Before you blow a fuse check his voting record.McCains' aint much better but lets see your take.'08.

SigPro2022
10-01-2008, 07:28
Not really, its more like we believe and understand the stance of the candidate we support as a fix to the **** the Republican party has presided over and allowed to go to hell. Its more like that.
So let me get this straight. No one who supports McCain can believe or understand your candidates stance or views? That is so elitist. Anyone who supports McCain just doesn't understand, is that it? I guess it's your job to set us all straight, and make sure we support the mighty O? :upeyes: A vote for Obama is a vote against your 2nd Amendment rights, no matter how you try and justify his views.

rwschill
10-01-2008, 07:59
I think it will be a close race but he has a good chance and will do a fine job.

meshmdz
10-01-2008, 08:43
So let me get this straight. No one who supports McCain can believe or understand your candidates stance or views? That is so elitist. Anyone who supports McCain just doesn't understand, is that it? I guess it's your job to set us all straight, and make sure we support the mighty O? :upeyes: A vote for Obama is a vote against your 2nd Amendment rights, no matter how you try and justify his views.

Sig, I am not trying to set anyone straight. All I am saying is that McCain's plans do not make sense economically. He wants to cut taxes by cutting port barrel spending when port barrel spending cuts completely wouldnt be able to fund the tax cuts he is talking about. Every person that I see on here that has been a "mccain gun owner/supporter" never says ANYTHING about anything other than the fact that he is better than Obama on ONE issue. I dont care if you vote for Obama or not. I just believe that it is ignorant to vote for a candidate based on 1 issue... and some of the comments like "we better be armed when nov. 5th rolls around" are just laughable.

kirg - what is ironic about being in the military and voting for someone who recognizes a war based on lies from the start of it?

mesteve2
10-01-2008, 08:56
He is a good reader, Great lier, and really STIPID!

:wavey::wavey::wavey:

To are GUNS! :wavey:

cookekdjr
10-01-2008, 09:27
cooke, alot of fellas on here are good guys but they just spout rhetoric they hear and take it as fact.

Yeah, I guess I should be nicer about it with folks who obviously don't know any better. But its so infuriating to keep hearing the same talking point lies repeated over and over and over. When we point out the lies, they say well, Obama lies, too.
But my point about the voting present thing (still haven't heard anybody making this charge respond) is that the people who wrote that talking point for less-informed people to spread (like our friends here at GT) know there is no such thing as voting present in the US Senate. But they say it over and over and then get people here at GT to echo it.
Bottom line is, almost every single crack against Obama at GT is a lie. The ONLY real factual point they have on him is his stance on 2nd Am. That's it.
Obviously I disagree with Obama on that, but its not even a priority of his, and enough of his support comes from gun owners that I just can't see him making a wedge issue liks guns a priority. It would be politically stupid to do that, and he has demonstrated he's not politically stupid.

farnhamj
10-01-2008, 09:59
1. Robert Byrd
2. Ted Kennedy
3. Joe Biden


Probably not the best two people to be on a list with...imho

farnhamj
10-01-2008, 10:06
A challenge to you: Name one day, ONE DAY, ONE DAY when Obama voted "present" in the US Senate.
If you can't do it, take it back. Put up or shut up.

You just said that "It is common practice" to vote present, yet they don't vote present... so did he not show up or just not vote? I don't understand. Please Clarify. Thanks.:dunno:

farnhamj
10-01-2008, 10:09
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g288/meshmdz/veterans.jpg
I am assuming you are military in backround from your pic, and I am amazed that you can back someone who says that your fighting and courage and putting yourself on the line along with everyone else in the military. I don't know if you are in Iraq or were or whatever, but backing someone who says this war was a mistake would make me upset. He is basically saying that all you do and all you live for and believe is a mistake. Doesn't sound like anyone I would like in the white house.

farnhamj
10-01-2008, 10:12
Wrong - profs arent polluting, they are exposing the ass of the Bush admins past 8 years as if there was ever any real need for further explanation.

wrong again. from personal experience, I have watched many profs use their classrooms, from algebra to political sci, as their personal pulpit to spread their political views with young moldable minds being brainwashed into believing the hog wash.

farnhamj
10-01-2008, 10:16
Yup. I think I will vote again....HELL NO!!!

cookekdjr
10-01-2008, 10:33
You just said that "It is common practice" to vote present, yet they don't vote present... so did he not show up or just not vote? I don't understand. Please Clarify. Thanks.:dunno:

Let's start over.
Obama served in the Illinois legislature (Senate) for seven years, from 1997-2004. During his tenure he voted over 4,000 times.
The Illinois legislature has an odd system of voting that allows members to vote "yes", "no" or "present". Generally, a present vote is used when a member formerly supported a bill but no longer does based on amendments to the bill, or other tactical reasons. Sometimes large blocks of legislators vote present. Sometimes only one will.
Of Obama's 4,000 plus votes in the Illinois Sentate, he voted "present" 129 times, or roughly 3% of the time. One source for this information can be found at: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/01/24/fact_check_obamas_present_votes/

Now, about the US Senate. There is no such thing as a "present" vote. The GOP tacticians who write the talking points that fellow GT members keep repeating know this, but they spread it anyway. So we hear the lies here, even though the GT members apparently don't know any better.
I hope that clarified things.

ldcarson
10-01-2008, 11:35
Not really, its more like we believe and understand the stance of the candidate we support as a fix to the **** the Republican party has presided over and allowed to go to hell. Its more like that.

REALLY? Funny...I can't find a thing on what he really stands for...Can you explain???

lets just start with something simple:

1. Guncontrol...What "Changes" does he see in our futures
2. The war on terror...just in general terms...how would he change our engagement policies for the better?
3. Social Security how can he change it for the better without taxing all of us.
4. The "Bail-out", what kind of change would he enact to benefit the taxpayer...we already know what his community organization has done with the housing market
5. His wifes view of America and how he can change them cause they are dead wrong.
6. His own ministers view and how he plans to help rev. wright change his attitudes.
7. What Change he feels is needed in America? What areas, what sectors etc...
8. His view and ideas on islam and the western world, and how to "Change" what we've been doing.
9. His ideas on becoming energy sufficient and how he will effect a change in that industry that will not go into our pockets even more.


I can go on and on because I have yet to hear one plan or idea...lots of talk about change but nothing except empty words....:crying:

gunsite
10-01-2008, 12:18
A challenge to you: Name one day, ONE DAY, ONE DAY when Obama voted "present" in the US Senate.
If you can't do it, take it back. Put up or shut up.


You ask for it.... in the NYT no less. 130 times.... Present!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/politics/20obama.html




http://www.danasoft.com/sig/VoteForMedummies.jpg

Lady Glock
10-01-2008, 12:20
REALLY? Funny...I can't find a thing on what he really stands for...Can you explain???

lets just start with something simple:

1. Guncontrol...What "Changes" does he see in our futures
2. The war on terror...just in general terms...how would he change our engagement policies for the better?
3. Social Security how can he change it for the better without taxing all of us.
4. The "Bail-out", what kind of change would he enact to benefit the taxpayer...we already know what his community organization has done with the housing market
5. His wifes view of America and how he can change them cause they are dead wrong.
6. His own ministers view and how he plans to help rev. wright change his attitudes.
7. What Change he feels is needed in America? What areas, what sectors etc...
8. His view and ideas on islam and the western world, and how to "Change" what we've been doing.
9. His ideas on becoming energy sufficient and how he will effect a change in that industry that will not go into our pockets even more.


I can go on and on because I have yet to hear one plan or idea...lots of talk about change but nothing except empty words....:crying:Stand down damn you! He has a plan, he just isn't going to share it with mere peons before they put him in office. If you want to know what he plans to do, elect him...then he will show the world what his plan has been all along! /sarcasm...I'd like to hear what his plan is too, I just don't think we will because his followers are all too willing to accept his mesmorizing tone of "ums, uhs, huhs, and so" that he peppers throughout his speeches.

meshmdz
10-01-2008, 12:43
I am assuming you are military in backround from your pic, and I am amazed that you can back someone who says that your fighting and courage and putting yourself on the line along with everyone else in the military. I don't know if you are in Iraq or were or whatever, but backing someone who says this war was a mistake would make me upset. He is basically saying that all you do and all you live for and believe is a mistake. Doesn't sound like anyone I would like in the white house.

farnham - I am from a Military family, and I am not "in" the Army yet, persay. I am in my senior year of Varsity Army ROTC, finishing up my masters. I will be "in" the Army as a 2LT here in about 8 months. I am VERY excited about my career as an Army officer.

I am not in Iraq. Never led anyone to believe that. That would have no affect on my belief that the war has been proven to be a mistake.

One, Obama isnt saying that what anyone in the military "believes" in is a mistake. It is the duty and job of all soldiers to do as they are told. I will go to Iraq and do what I am ordered from my company and battalion commanders, no questions asked. However, that doesnt mean that I DO or have to agree with the reasons we are there. The mark of a good soldier and officer is one that can take orders from superior officers, delegate orders to his subordinates, work in close quarters with his senior NCO's using their experience, and not influx HIS OPINION OR FEELINGS on the matter. Look at many great Confederate Civil War Generals. They did as they were commanded when, for example, at Gettysburg, LTG Longstreet didnt think that Lee's men could take Cemetary Ridge but he ordered the attack anyways because he was told to.

My policy doesnt have to line up with a bunch of hard-line right wing nut jobs. It also doesnt have to line up with far left wing idiots. My policies and beliefs line up more left than center, but far from being labeled "FAR LEFT." Being a liberal isnt a bad thing. Liberalism is the principle by which this nation was built upon. This nation was founded on change and breaking-away from the traditional way of doing things. That is liberalism in is purest form. The problem is that many conservatives use slander as a means of trying to justify their beliefs and damn 'liberal' as being some anti-American word. The fact is that Liberal is a word that is very close to this nation and has been seen many times in the past in the lives of many great Americans.

I support all people in the military. They set their personal lives aside, as I will be doing shortly, to serve this nation. They do what they do without question. However, just because you are in the military, does NOT mean you must agree with an extremely flawed and planned mainstay/withdrawal. We are all Americans and love this nation. Liberals want what is best for the USA and so do conservatives, we just have different ideas on how to attain it. I support Barrack Obama because I believe that he has a plan for withdrawal from this War, a plan that will allow our extremely strained military to bounce back from the wars for the past 7 years. I support him because I think that he wants what is best for this nation. I believe that the federal government should be held accountable for the things we elect them to do. I think that he is the face of change from the past 8 years and that is ultimately why I am voting for him.

meshmdz
10-01-2008, 12:52
REALLY? Funny...I can't find a thing on what he really stands for...Can you explain???

lets just start with something simple:

1. Guncontrol...What "Changes" does he see in our futures
2. The war on terror...just in general terms...how would he change our engagement policies for the better?
3. Social Security how can he change it for the better without taxing all of us.
4. The "Bail-out", what kind of change would he enact to benefit the taxpayer...we already know what his community organization has done with the housing market
5. His wifes view of America and how he can change them cause they are dead wrong.
6. His own ministers view and how he plans to help rev. wright change his attitudes.
7. What Change he feels is needed in America? What areas, what sectors etc...
8. His view and ideas on islam and the western world, and how to "Change" what we've been doing.
9. His ideas on becoming energy sufficient and how he will effect a change in that industry that will not go into our pockets even more.


I can go on and on because I have yet to hear one plan or idea...lots of talk about change but nothing except empty words....:crying:

I cant speak for Senator Obama but his views on the issues can be found here.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

But seriously, you already are set on NOT supporting Obama so what difference does it make if I post a response for every question you asked me, like I would know his thoughts on your questions.

ldcarson
10-01-2008, 14:28
I cant speak for Senator Obama but his views on the issues can be found here.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

But seriously, you already are set on NOT supporting Obama so what difference does it make if I post a response for every question you asked me, like I would know his thoughts on your questions.


Been there, done that, nothing in that site answers any questions...the term smoking mirrors comes to mind. I really didn't expect you or any Obama supporter to answer, because really...there isn't one, and thats because he has no PLAN for the change that he wants to effect.

I am conservative...not ashamed of it either, but I am also not happy with McCain...I think we could do better than we have. But he is our candidate, so I will vote the party line in the absence of any other plan. I am here in Iraq working on a PRT (Provincial Reconstruction team), I came because I believed that what we did (Coming to Iraq) was and still is the right thing to do. Thats not to say mistakes haven't been made, sure they have, but in the end, I think we got it right. We've done what we sat out to do. Iraq is much calmer and more at peace right now than it ever has been, and all this after Mr. Harry Ried said "The war is lost":rofl: This is what all the Democrats don't get...We've done it, as Gen. Patreaus and President Bush laid out for the surge. If it was easy work, we wouldn't have to be here, but its not easy, and its damn hard work, particularly when you have other outside countries interfering...BUT, at the end of the day, the democrats were wrong, Ried and Pelosi were wrong, Obama was wrong, Kerry was wrong...They were all wrong...and isn't interesting how not one of them has apologized or even wants to bring it up and talk about it? America doesn't forget, and I believe that come election day, you Dems are going to be in for a big surprise yet again....

peace to you my brother in arms...Gods speed

Bomber Nav
10-01-2008, 16:04
I have absolutely NO faith in Barack Hussein Obama. I think he will take our guns, raise our taxes (all you'll have left is "change"!) and push this country into Socialism or close to it. It is NOT the governments job to provide everyone housing, health care, jobs, retirement, etc. The National Government should provide for our national defense, protect our borders, stabilize our currency, and stay out of our lives! We are rapidly abolishing the American Spirit of independence, self-sufficiency, hard work, and faith in God. BHO, and his ilk, and his philosophy, are major contributors to this demise. Having said all that, I think WAY TOO MANY Americans are stupid sheep that will believe what he says and will vote for him because they don't like George Bush. For that reason, he will win. Okay, people, George Bush is not running again! We're going to have change - but the question is: what kind? Remember, the people of Russia wanted change in 1918, the people of Cuba wanted change in 1952.

BTW, I am tired of automatically being assumed I'm racist because I don't support BHO. Race has nothing to do with it. I don't like his politics, his policies, his voting record ("Present") and what he stands for.

SigPro2022
10-01-2008, 20:10
Sig, I am not trying to set anyone straight. All I am saying is that McCain's plans do not make sense economically. He wants to cut taxes by cutting port barrel spending when port barrel spending cuts completely wouldnt be able to fund the tax cuts he is talking about. Every person that I see on here that has been a "mccain gun owner/supporter" never says ANYTHING about anything other than the fact that he is better than Obama on ONE issue. I dont care if you vote for Obama or not. I just believe that it is ignorant to vote for a candidate based on 1 issue... and some of the comments like "we better be armed when nov. 5th rolls around" are just laughable.
First of all, it's "pork barrel" spending, not port. I am not a 100% die-hard McCain supporter, but agree with most of his beliefs and I could certainly be considered a 1 issue voter. Now that I know that I am "ignorant" for being a one issue voter maybe I can move on.:upeyes: I never said anything about being armed on the 5th of November. I can only hope that if gun confiscation ever does happen (I don't think it will, at least not in this generation), I really hope you are one of the Army officers tasked with leading soldiers to accomplish that task.:patriot:
I am basically done trying to argue with you. Guys like cooke and yourself have your beliefs, which you consider to be the only true "correct" ideas. That is truly an elitist position to take, akin to considering anyone who doesn't follow you to be an ignorant idiot. You have a lot of growing up to do.

meshmdz
10-01-2008, 22:20
Sig, I am not claiming that you are an idiot. I am sure that you are an intelligent fellow and Im glad we are both on GT. I am sorry if I offended you. You have your opinions and thoughts and I have mine.

meshmdz
10-01-2008, 22:22
Been there, done that, nothing in that site answers any questions...the term smoking mirrors comes to mind. I really didn't expect you or any Obama supporter to answer, because really...there isn't one, and thats because he has no PLAN for the change that he wants to effect.

I am conservative...not ashamed of it either, but I am also not happy with McCain...I think we could do better than we have. But he is our candidate, so I will vote the party line in the absence of any other plan. I am here in Iraq working on a PRT (Provincial Reconstruction team), I came because I believed that what we did (Coming to Iraq) was and still is the right thing to do. Thats not to say mistakes haven't been made, sure they have, but in the end, I think we got it right. We've done what we sat out to do. Iraq is much calmer and more at peace right now than it ever has been, and all this after Mr. Harry Ried said "The war is lost":rofl: This is what all the Democrats don't get...We've done it, as Gen. Patreaus and President Bush laid out for the surge. If it was easy work, we wouldn't have to be here, but its not easy, and its damn hard work, particularly when you have other outside countries interfering...BUT, at the end of the day, the democrats were wrong, Ried and Pelosi were wrong, Obama was wrong, Kerry was wrong...They were all wrong...and isn't interesting how not one of them has apologized or even wants to bring it up and talk about it? America doesn't forget, and I believe that come election day, you Dems are going to be in for a big surprise yet again....

peace to you my brother in arms...Gods speed

ldcarson - I respect your thoughts and opinion. Godspeed brother. I will be over there within the next year or sometime soon thereafter. What is your MOS by the way?

farnhamj
10-02-2008, 08:14
deleted

farnhamj
10-02-2008, 08:31
However, that doesnt mean that I DO or have to agree with the reasons we are there.

This scares me...You would actually take a job and perform that job and the duties involved even if you possibly don't agree with the tasks and reasons behind the tasks. Is this a hypothetical or are you actually willing to be a Lemming?

Being a liberal isnt a bad thing. Liberalism is the principle by which this nation was built upon. This nation was founded on change and breaking-away from the traditional way of doing things.

Actually one of the formost things this Country was build on was religion, Christianity to be exacy and come hell or high water I am not voting for a self proclaimed MUSLIM. I can't vote for someone with family ties to terrorists(whom he supports financially and emotionally) and who's "faith"followers caused the infamous 9/11. That's just me and we all hove opinions and we all have a vote.


I support all people in the military. They set their personal lives aside, as I will be doing shortly, to serve this nation.

And I appreciate everything that everyone in the military is doing and sacrificing.

I support Barrack Obama because I believe that he has a plan for withdrawal from this War, a plan that will allow our extremely strained military to bounce back from the wars for the past 7 years. I support him because I think that he wants what is best for this nation.


Do you honestly think that he will accomplish that. NO. He is all talk and nothing will be accopmlished. That is because the President doesn't call the shots on that issue. It is the Congress and the Senate who vote on it.

I believe that the federal government should be held accountable for the things we elect them to do. I think that he is the face of change from the past 8 years and that is ultimately why I am voting for him.

I agree that we need a change. And the biggest one needs to be a republican majority congress and senete because they are the ones that actually vote and make the decisions. You sound like a very intellegent person, allbeit misguided and/or brainwashed...IMHO

cookekdjr
10-02-2008, 09:21
Actually one of the formost things this Country was build on was religion, Christianity to be exacy and come hell or high water I am not voting for a self proclaimed MUSLIM. I can't vote for someone with family ties to terrorists(whom he supports financially and emotionally) and who's "faith"followers caused the infamous 9/11. That's just me and we all hove opinions and we all have a vote.
No, this country was built as a response to New England theocracy. In other words, we have this country as a reaction against Christian Heritage, not as an intentional outgrowth of the church (except maybe Baptists, who were strongly against church/state affiliation, and stood opposed to the Constitution without the 1st Amendment; the Baptists founded Rhode Island to grant freedom of religion for all).
Baptists were also influential in article six of the constituion which reads: no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
Most of the founding fathers were deists, who did not believe in the divinity of Christ, or were atheists. I understand the Christian heritage misunderstanding is widespread because of a massive misinformation campaign by the Christian conservatives. A simple web search on people like Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, and other founding fathers confirms their religious beliefs.
Thomas Paine said:
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

Jefferson was not as outspoken, but made clear he did not believe the Bible as a book of fact or in the divinity of Christ.
As for the charges of Obama's Muslim ties, most of that can be corrected by a trip to snopes or factcheck.org.

kirgi08
10-02-2008, 10:28
You want Himmler,Vote Dem.'08. :sad:

cookekdjr
10-02-2008, 11:16
You want Himmler,Vote Dem.'08. :sad:
What? I don't follow you. Spell it out, point by point.

keith56
10-02-2008, 22:10
1. Robert Byrd
2. Ted Kennedy
3. Joe Biden



1. An old klansman
2. An old drunk
3. An old joke

kirgi08
10-03-2008, 07:14
What? I don't follow you. Spell it out, point by point.

Look into Hitlers rise to power in Germany,that should explain it.'08.:shocked:

meshmdz
10-03-2008, 07:18
Obama isnt a muslim. That line is old. Typical right wing fear-mongering as a last-ditch effort to stop the inevitable; Obama being the next Leader and President of the US.

cookekdjr
10-03-2008, 07:27
Look into Hitlers rise to power in Germany,that should explain it.'08.:shocked:

Still not following you. Who is Hitler in this? Who is Germany? What on earth are you talking about?
Be very very specific.

meshmdz
10-03-2008, 07:35
Still not following you. Who is Hitler in this? Who is Germany? What on earth are you talking about?
Be very very specific.

Cooke, posts like this are nothing more than mudslinging/attacks on people with no substance.

Republicans calls Obama Hitler, Democrats call Bush Hitler. WHO IS HITLER IN TODAY's SOCIETY??? I think that any claim that any American politician is like Hitler is an outlandish statement

meshmdz
10-03-2008, 07:36
Obama was never a Muslim. Get your facts straight.

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/5286

kirgi08
10-03-2008, 08:49
Still not following you. Who is Hitler in this? Who is Germany? What on earth are you talking about?
Be very very specific.

Adolf Hitlers rise ta power.History does after all repeat itself.'08.

MarcoPolo
10-03-2008, 08:58
Does he have the qualifications? According to the United States Constitution, yes he does.

Would I vote for him. Not in a million years. He's a full-blown socialist.

cookekdjr
10-03-2008, 11:32
Adolf Hitlers rise ta power.History does after all repeat itself.'08.

I see. So while Obama says he wants us to pull out of Iraq, he instead plans to invade most of our neighbors. This will be be preceded by many speeches that give rise to uber-nationalism, and the idea that Americans are the one pure race. Accompanying this rise will be the burning of books, and a rapid increase in military spending, paramilitary thug groups, including the youth, and the persecution of jews, gypsies, and homosexuals.
I see your point exactly, and the rational basis for your belief. :whistling:

cookekdjr
10-03-2008, 11:33
Does he have the qualifications? According to the United States Constitution, yes he does.

Would I vote for him. Not in a million years. He's a full-blown socialist.

Definitely not a socialist. Didn't you see where he's the second coming of Hitler? Get with the program.

meshmdz
10-03-2008, 13:45
THe vast majority of folks on this board used to hate McCain and say he wasnt a friend of gun owners... But now they love him. He and Obama have agreed on gun control in some instances. But Obama is the bad guy and he isnt qualified to be President because he is an advocate of gun control...... haha.

keith56
10-03-2008, 19:17
Obama isnt a muslim. That line is old. Typical right wing fear-mongering as a last-ditch effort to stop the inevitable; Obama being the next Leader and President of the US.

Hussein will never be the "leader" of the U.S. and if by some chance this clown does get elected it will be a sad day for all the decent people in this country!