The Millett DMS-1 Optic [Archive] - Glock Talk

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RMTactical
08-29-2008, 00:20
Here you go, I wrote up a little review on the optic, I may update it with some more commentary and/or pictures, but take a look.

Feel free to add in your own commentary and/or opinions to this thread.

http://ar15pro.blogspot.com/2008/08/millet-dms-1-optic.html

CatsMeow
08-29-2008, 02:30
Wow, good you posted this.:cool: I got almost the same setup you have, 20-incher with FF handguard (mine's a DD), only that the scope is sitting on a borrowed mount pending the arrival of my LaRue LT-104. And my groups are not as good, perhaps the ammo or the gritty trigger, or I need some more trigger time. Only when my set-up's complete will I post a pic of the whole rifle and its scope.

Do you still use the scope covers it came with? I had to replace the rear one with a Butler Creek # 16 as it kept popping open, had to tape it shut in the meantime. Cheesy too. And the zoom ring is hard to turn, but it's a minor detail.

To align the scope crosshairs I referenced them on the front sight ears (1x) and moved the scope until the bottom cross-hair was aligned with the front sight base.


It wears a Scope Coat while in storage.

RMTactical
08-29-2008, 10:22
Do you still use the scope covers it came with?

Yes, for now, I do. Work fine for me.

jrs93accord
08-29-2008, 10:39
I am glad you find the DMS favorable. I still like mine. Now, I am looking forward to using my Trijicon Accupoint for the first time tomorrow.

Millett DMS-1 in LaRue SPR-1.5 mount
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/DSC00500.jpg


Trijicon Accupoint TR21R in LaRue SPR-E mount
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/DSC00575.jpg

12131
08-30-2008, 00:54
hmmmm, very nice piece. Seems a quality scope. And, for $255, not bad at all.

Rebel_James
08-30-2008, 09:07
The scope caps that came with mine kept falling off, so I got some Butler Creek covers for it.

I'm very well pleased with this scope. I haven't used/shot it at night yet, but with a TLR-1 light I'm confident it would work at night also.

.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v32/Rebel_James/Stag15007.jpg

jrs93accord
08-30-2008, 10:46
hmmmm, very nice piece. Seems a quality scope. And, for $255, not bad at all.

$199.95 at www.swfa.com

RMTactical
08-30-2008, 12:14
$199.95 at www.swfa.com

Yeah, that's where I got mine.

Rebel_James
08-30-2008, 12:33
Yeah, that's where I got mine.

Me too.

.

12131
08-30-2008, 12:41
Even better.:cool:

Stealther
08-31-2008, 03:10
Whats the eye relief on these at 4x? I assume that it has unlimited eye relief at 1x?

s12coolguy
09-01-2008, 12:47
Help me fund my AR project by taking my Millet DMS-1 off my hands! It's new in box STILL wrapped up. I'm so tempted to open it and play with it but I'm thinking keeping it wrapped would be a good selling point. SO TEMPTED!

scottp999
09-01-2008, 20:07
Here you go, I wrote up a little review on the optic, I may update it with some more commentary and/or pictures, but take a look.

Feel free to add in your own commentary and/or opinions to this thread.

http://ar15pro.blogspot.com/2008/08/millet-dms-1-optic.html

How does it look with the Front Sight on the 20" at low magnification? Do you notice the FSB at 1.5?

RMTactical
09-01-2008, 22:35
Here it is at 1x. The front sight doesn't bug me.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u87/RMTactical/IMG_4481.jpg

Beer_Forever
09-01-2008, 22:38
I just got a gen 1 and love it. I have it on a gg&g riser with Millet rings. I don't like how the rings have a little gap from where they lock together, is that normal? They seem like good rings.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j236/sksforever/100_3289.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j236/sksforever/100_3290.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j236/sksforever/100_3288.jpg

CatsMeow
09-02-2008, 03:25
Here it is at 1x. The front sight doesn't bug me.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u87/RMTactical/IMG_4481.jpg

That's exactly what mine looks like. Pretty convenient too, to level the scope using the blurry front sight base and the front sight ears.

I thought only the rear scope cover needed replacing with a Butler Creek, but after one too many times that the front cover got pulled off along with the Scope Coat when I remove the latter, I went and got a Butler Creek # 02A today.

scottp999
09-02-2008, 07:16
Interestng pic. Thanks for posting. I assume once you get up to 2.5 or so it blurs out of the picture completely? I really like the scope and just want to be sure before I purchace it for my 20" with a standard FSB. By the way, the scope is on sale at midway right now for about $204.

RMTactical
09-02-2008, 11:36
Interestng pic. Thanks for posting. I assume once you get up to 2.5 or so it blurs out of the picture completely? I really like the scope and just want to be sure before I purchace it for my 20" with a standard FSB. By the way, the scope is on sale at midway right now for about $204.

Yes, it blurs out as you zoom it in, but I don't quite know at what magnification it disappears.

CatsMeow
09-02-2008, 19:16
I played with it last night, it disappeared completely at 4x. At 2x the front sight occupied about 1/4th of the view at the bottom, but then the circle-dot was already well clear of the front sight. At 3x I could still see a little bit of the front sight and its ears. But then this was indoors, lighted.

BTW credit is due Rebel James for getting me interested in this scope in the first place. I kept staring at his rifle which is always present in his posts, then again, and then I said to myself... me too. The rest is history.

CatsMeow
09-03-2008, 01:28
My LaRue hasn't arrived yet, but oh well, here's a photo of my rifle with the DMS perched on a borrowed mount, owner painted it with green Alumahyde, along with the rest of his rifle. Photo courtesy of Cebuboy.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd37/CatsMeow_07/DSC_6550.jpg

scottp999
09-03-2008, 08:22
Thanks for all of the great information!

crazymoose
09-03-2008, 09:43
Personally, I'm a fan of the American Defense mount over the LaRue. I agree with you on everything else.

Noodles McGee
09-06-2008, 11:16
I had oned on backorder for almost 4 weeks at SWFA, They didn't know when they were comming in. This was late July to mid/late August. I found something similar at their site, a Burris Eurodiamond 1x4 with a 3P4 German post reticle. I'm a huge fan of that reticle to begin with so I snapped it up. When it came I was also suprised that it's illum too. I had a set of 30mm Warne rings that are Med. Not high enough, I got a riser on order at work so i'll see how that goes. I'd love to get a nice mount like the 1inch Armalight I have but i'm broke.

I've got the scope on my 450bushy. Hopefully I can have it ready for deer season.

Noodles McGee
09-06-2008, 11:19
BTW nice write up!

CatsMeow
09-07-2008, 21:37
I fired at some small plates at 35 meters last Saturday, off-hand, but I had the scope at 4x with illumination off. Dang, every tremor of my arm was quadrupled:embarassed:, dot-circle was dancing around, so I brought it back to 2x, missed again, switched on the illumination at full "11" and used it like a red dot, that's more like it. Lesson learned.

sigpro-fessor
06-20-2010, 15:57
So how are these things holding up two years later!

ubersoldat
06-20-2010, 16:14
Ive heard nothing but bad things about these scopes. They are cheap, they arent reliable, and the dont hold zero well...

But I was looking to try one out myself, since 99% of what I heard was from the internet. So the aimpoint came off the old desert rifle and I threw one on.
I BEAT this scope, I want it to fail. But in a little over a year, three comps, shooting it on a multiple times a month, and banging around my jeep in the desert, this scope has done nothing but function perfectly.

For the cost, its a great deal and a great little scope.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs123.snc1/5291_100636576615218_100000066272530_17793_1852056_n.jpg

sigpro-fessor
06-20-2010, 16:40
That's exactly how I plan to set mine up. Great looking rifle.


Anyone know if the rear of the scope will clear a folded MBUS rear sight?

RMTactical
06-20-2010, 18:24
So how are these things holding up two years later!

Mine has held up fine to this point.

As for the MBUS, I doubt it would fit under mine with the Larue Mount I had.

CatsMeow
06-20-2010, 19:37
Mine was running great up to the time I sold it. I now use an Aimpoint but I still miss it. Rather heavy though...

faawrenchbndr
06-21-2010, 07:20
I had a DMS-1 mounted on a DPMS LR-308.
The Millet was WAY more reliable than the DPMS was, never an issue with the scope.
Held it's zero, great optic for the money!

The DPMS is another story,...................

I like black
06-21-2010, 16:42
I have been thinking that this would be a good size/power scope for my new piece.

How does this compare to the Primary Arms 1x4 scope because I was thinking about going with the PA model instead of the Millet.


Thanks

ILB

RMTactical
06-21-2010, 19:05
I have been thinking that this would be a good size/power scope for my new piece.

How does this compare to the Primary Arms 1x4 scope because I was thinking about going with the PA model instead of the Millet.


Thanks

ILB

I'd bet they are comparable. The PA might be a better buy. I think I prefer the reticle of the Millett but the PA seems to be a good value nonetheless.

MARSH1
06-21-2010, 19:15
I have been thinking that this would be a good size/power scope for my new piece.

How does this compare to the Primary Arms 1x4 scope because I was thinking about going with the PA model instead of the Millet.


Thanks

ILB

We sell both. Main difference is the reticle. It is really personal preference. Here are two links with good reticle pics. We have discounted mount packages with both

Marshall

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=325&t=190818

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/OpticsReticles/Millett/Millett.htm

jobob
06-21-2010, 23:21
I hate to rain on the parade, but I feel I need to lay out my view of this scope for anyone contemplating getting one. I'm sure that those who are giving it good reviews have had good luck with it, so I'm not trying to argue with them, but I have to say that I do NOT like this scope! I bought one thinking it might be good for an inexpensive scope for 3gun competition or use on a tactical rifle. I'll try to articulate my reasons:

1. It's too heavy. There are much lighter scopes.

2. This is my major problem with it. Someone mentioned lack of eye relief. I think the problem is not eye relief (listed at 3.5", and no, it is not unlimited at 1x), but the size of the eye box. Your eye has to be in just the right spot behind the scope or you lose the sight picture. Most good scopes don't have such critical eye relief, and allow for some movement of the eye behind the scope, side to side, up/down, or back and forth. With the Millett, especially at 4x, you have to get your eye in just the right place. This makes for slow target acquisition.

Perhaps I'm spoiled. I have Meopta and Trijicon Accupoint scopes on other rifles I use for competition and I don't have this problem with them. The Meopta especially feels like you can see the whole world through the scope.

I don't hate everything about the DMS. I rather like the reticle; it's fast to pick up and the circle and vertical post can be used to estimate hold over at longer range targets. The adjustments seem pretty precise and it seemed to hold zero well. If it's as durable as it's weight makes it feel, it should be nearly indestructible.

You want good optics in a reasonably priced low power scope? Leupold makes some decent scopes in the $200 to $300 range. Nikon is making a series of M223 scopes made specifically for ARs. The 1-4x version is listed at $280 through SWFA.

For around $150 is the Weaver 1-3x, which is a wonderful little scope! It's lightweight and has good optics and forgiving eye relief. Only a duplex reticle, though, but that works well for 90% of the shooting most of us will do. For the money it's hard to beat.

I don't want to run down anyone's choice in optics, or guns for that matter. If the DMS is giving good service and fills your need, I would be the last to second guess your preference. But it's good to show that there are other choices to be had, and to throw out my $0.02 for those who need a different perspective.

RMTactical
06-22-2010, 00:44
jobob, I think your assessment is not too far off. Although I reviewed it fairly positive, and I do think it is a good scope for the money, your two points were my two biggest complaints as well. I still feel it is a good sight for the money though.

agtman
06-22-2010, 05:40
I hate to rain on the parade, but I feel I need to lay out my view of this scope for anyone contemplating getting one. I'm sure that those who are giving it good reviews have had good luck with it, so I'm not trying to argue with them, but I have to say that I do NOT like this scope! I bought one thinking it might be good for an inexpensive scope for 3gun competition or use on a tactical rifle. I'll try to articulate my reasons:

1. It's too heavy. There are much lighter scopes.

2. This is my major problem with it. Someone mentioned lack of eye relief. I think the problem is not eye relief (listed at 3.5", and no, it is not unlimited at 1x), but the size of the eye box. Your eye has to be in just the right spot behind the scope or you lose the sight picture. Most good scopes don't have such critical eye relief, and allow for some movement of the eye behind the scope, side to side, up/down, or back and forth. With the Millett, especially at 4x, you have to get your eye in just the right place. This makes for slow target acquisition.
Perhaps I'm spoiled. I have Meopta and Trijicon Accupoint scopes on other rifles I use for competition and I don't have this problem with them. The Meopta especially feels like you can see the whole world through the scope.
***

Agree with these points on the DMS-1, ... although I would characterize the "eye-relief" issue this way: the more you dail-up on the magnification, the more finicky the scope starts to become about eye-relief, in that, as jobob said, you have to adjust your head on the stock in just the right position.

And taking the extra time to find that "sweet spot" is what slows down not only target acquisition, but getting the shot off. There are other low-power scopes on the market that are quicker ...

:cool:

majette
06-22-2010, 09:11
it is heavy with rings/mount but i live with it. i shoot nose to charging handle, helps with the eye relief.

humanguerrilla
06-22-2010, 13:41
Fan of my DMS-1. When you mount it, mount it where you naturally shoot and everything is right at 4x first and on down. I think that is the way to go with any scope. For me that is mounted a little forward in a LT mount.

Yeah it's heavy for what it is.

jobob
06-22-2010, 13:51
Another point on eye relief. I shot the MGM Ironman match earlier this month (My 4th Ironman, and I'm now convinced I'm more like a Doughboy). On the long range stage you may use a different rifle for the 3 bonus long range targets, at 550, 730, and 960 yards. My good Leupold M4 was back at Leupold getting a problem worked out, so I was using a substitute scope on my DPMS 308. The scope I used was the Super Sniper 20x from SWFA. In my range sessions with this gun I knew that the scope had critical eye relief, but I thought I had the right placement of the scope for my head placement on the stock. Well, that was good for shooting off the bench, but at the match I had to shoot prone, and the targets were way up a distant hill and my bipod was a little low, so I had to kinda force my head down on the stock and crane my neck, and my body was behind the gun making it difficult to get my head far enough forward to get into the eye box. All that, plus the narrow field of view through that 20x scope made it very difficult to get on target. Oh, and did I say I was shooting in a storm with gusting 15 - 20 mph side winds? Needless to say I had difficulty making my hits. I think they gave me 5 hits between the 550 and 730 targets (allowed up to 5 bonus hits per target). I didn't even try the 960 as my time was running out.

Anyway, I do believe that if I had my M4 with it's more forgiving eye relief I would have made more hits, and I wouldn't have wasted so much time just trying to find the targets.

eforney
06-22-2010, 18:30
Mine had to go back because the glass came loose in it. Customer service was great. I sent it in on a Thursday and had a new one by the following Tuesday. We will see if it was a lemon or not. It was on a 458 Socom so it took a little more of a beating than most will.

I like black
06-24-2010, 15:08
http://www.opticsplanet.net/nikon-riflescope-prostaff-2-7x32.html



How do you think that a scope like this this would compare ? Seems like it would be less sensitive to eye relief and have about the same field of vision @ 2x7 vs the 1x4.

If I went with the Nikon 2x7 what mount would be good on a flat top AR.

Thanks

jobob
06-24-2010, 23:52
I like Nikon glass. Seems to be pretty good for the money. A 2-7 fills a different need than a 1-4. If you won't need it for fast, close shooting the 2-7 would be a good pick as a general duty sight. I do question the shotgun scope, though. Those scopes have the parallax set at 50 or 75 yards, rather than 100 yards like most rifle scopes. It may not be a problem, but it could mean the difference between a hit or miss on a small target at long range. That said, some 3 gunners used to do well with low power shotgun variable scopes, before the plethora of low power rifle scopes.

There are so many scope mounts it's hard to recommend one, except to say that LaRue mounts are pretty much accepted as the best, and are priced accordingly. I have several Armalite one piece mounts that work very well for me. If you don't want any sort of quick detach system, the JP mount is an extremely solid setup.

I like black
06-28-2010, 13:52
Thanks for the reply.

The Nikon scope in the link is parralax free @ 75 yrds and I am going to be using the optic on a 7.62x39 AR so I doubt I would be shooting much over 200 yds.

I didn't see the parralax free settings on the Millet or the PA 1x4 ?

The Nikon is 11 ozs. or so and the others are around 17 ozs. so the Nikon would be lighter and how much feild of vision loss am I really going to lose with the Nikon on 2x power over the 1x of the other scopes ? Seems like since the Nikon has a larger glass it would be offer more light and be less finicky on the eye relief ?

I was thinking about this mount from PA http://www.primaryarms.com/product.sc?productId=533&categoryId=88


And if I don't go with the Nikon in the link I am most likely going to go with the PA 1x4.


Thanks for the input


ILB

Herd Sniper
07-10-2010, 00:08
I've had my Millett for a number of years and it still performs great. It has gone from a warm house to the cold winter weather of Illinois then into a passenger area of a car. Back and forth. It has been knocked around, dropped once and yet it keeps on working. My wife says that I have a tendency to break things in or break things down and I have yet to break this scope down.

vrex
07-12-2010, 17:16
my primary arms version has been solid on my DPMS .308 through about 500 rounds

durian00
07-12-2010, 18:23
I've had my DMS for over a year and a half and it performs well without any problems. Yes. I agree that it's heavy and adds extra heft to the AR.

Now that there is a PA variant for cheaper, i would look at it very closely if I had to get another one.

mixflip
07-12-2010, 20:18
Thanks RMtactical for this thread. I am shopping around for a 1-4 scope right now. I know Leupold has the new 1-8 made by request for Vicking Tactics but I can only assume its EXPENSIVE!!! (well over the Millet's $200-ish price tag I am guessing?)

I really dont know who else to consider in the 1-4 variable power (DMS) world? Isnt the Primary Arms 1-4 made in China? I am not a hard us operator/contractor/soldier and I am not made of money so a $200ish Millet fits my budget so far? Another $200 for a top end mount and I am reaching my budget limits for optics. ( I am selling unused stuff to finance this optics)

MARSH1
07-12-2010, 20:39
Thanks RMtactical for this thread. I am shopping around for a 1-4 scope right now. I know Leupold has the new 1-8 made by request for Vicking Tactics but I can only assume its EXPENSIVE!!! (well over the Millet's $200-ish price tag I am guessing?)

I really dont know who else to consider in the 1-4 variable power (DMS) world? Isnt the Primary Arms 1-4 made in China? I am not a hard us operator/contractor/soldier and I am not made of money so a $200ish Millet fits my budget so far? Another $200 for a top end mount and I am reaching my budget limits for optics. ( I am selling unused stuff to finance this optics)

The Leupold 1-8X will be in the $2,000 + or - range. The Millett and most under $500 scopes are made in China.

Some Nikons come out of the Philipines with glass from Japan. We have their new AR 1-4X for $224. We have the Leupold 1.5-4X Mark AR as well in the under $250 range.


http://www.primaryarms.com/category.sc?categoryId=2

mixflip
07-13-2010, 00:59
Hey Marsh 1, I was actually thinking about the Primary Arms 1-4 scope. I saw the Sootch review video on youtube you folks sent him and was impressed. Like I said I am not going to Iraq (not that I know of lol) so I am not looking to break the bank on a $1000 optic. If I can get a decent 1-4 scope at about $400 I'd be happy.

I guess most scopes at the $250 or less price point will be made in China and I am ok with that if it is still a rugged reliable performer.

I was also looking at the Burris XTR 1-4 scope but at $600 its still out of my comfort zone at the moment.

The leatherwood CMR Hi-Lux is priced nicely at $250 but I need to do more homework on it.

desertfox
07-13-2010, 01:36
Maybe it was the eye relief, or maybe it just seemed like the 1x was not quite right (not a true 1x). I do not know, but something bugged me about the scope. I gave it to a coworker, who has since given it to another friend we know. Something I also notice. people always say "it is a good scope for the money"............yeah, ok, sure.....

vrex
07-13-2010, 21:01
Maybe it was the eye relief, or maybe it just seemed like the 1x was not quite right (not a true 1x). I do not know, but something bugged me about the scope. I gave it to a coworker, who has since given it to another friend we know. Something I also notice. people always say "it is a good scope for the money"............yeah, ok, sure.....

I think the Primary arms version (the one I own and thus have experience with) is a decent scope for any price, and luckily, the price is damn low. I agree with you about the 1x but overall, I like it. I quit being an optics snob a while back, at 37 (not that I feel old at all) I cannot discern a Nikon prostaff from a Monarch.
Ever trade in a rifle? The glass adds nothing to the value of the gun, most places even tell you that you might as well remove it because they will give you no more no matter what it is...says something for the value of glass. For me, it's expendable gunware and if I can find one that will hold zero, not fog and show some repeatability, I buy it and keep it!
Now if I owned only one rifle that could wear only one scope forever, it would be a different story.....

desertfox
07-13-2010, 23:53
I think the Primary arms version (the one I own and thus have experience with) is a decent scope for any price, and luckily, the price is damn low. I agree with you about the 1x but overall, I like it. I quit being an optics snob a while back, at 37 (not that I feel old at all) I cannot discern a Nikon prostaff from a Monarch.
Ever trade in a rifle? The glass adds nothing to the value of the gun, most places even tell you that you might as well remove it because they will give you no more no matter what it is...says something for the value of glass. For me, it's expendable gunware and if I can find one that will hold zero, not fog and show some repeatability, I buy it and keep it!
Now if I owned only one rifle that could wear only one scope forever, it would be a different story.....

But when I buy a quality piece of glass, I'll keep the glass and sell the rifle. selling a firearm privately, you'll get more value for the glass. I agree, a gun shop will not give you any more for a optic, but then they will turn around and sell it for more because of the optic.

there are some scopes, that you can tell the difference. I have one really nice 1-4x scope that is fantastic. but I do not try and use it as a comparison with the DMS because they are not in the same league as each other. I really wanted the DMS for use on either my bushmaster bullpup or maybe a 10/22, but the 1x just bugged me to much.