Grandma Refuses to Return Library Book, Could Face Jail Time

[wolfman97]

What say you all? Great American hero or annoying busybody?


http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5678726&page=1


Grandma Refuses to Return Library Book, Could Face Jail Time
The Book Titled 'It's Perfectly Normal' Is Frequently Protested
By SARAH NETTER
Aug. 29, 2008

A concerned grandmother would rather go to jail than let neighborhood kids read about sex in a library book.

Woman refuses to return library book, claiming it violates obscenity ordinance.She may get her wish.

Officials in Lewiston, Maine, have told JoAn Karkos that she could face jail time if she does not, by this afternoon, return the library book "It's Perfectly Normal."

Karkos has had the book checked out of the Lewiston Public Library for more than a year in hopes of preventing children from reading it. Aimed at 9- to 12-year-olds, the book discusses puberty, sexual health and the emotions surrounding a child's newfound sexual awareness.

Her protest is not the first of its kind. From Texas to Colorado, people concerned about the book's frank images and language have staged protests to get it pulled off shelves at libraries and schools.

Karkos heard about the book from a newsletter put out by the American Life League, a national anti-abortion rights group, that included copies of pictures from the book with the nudity censored.

Related
Should Abstinence Talk Count as Sex Ed?Cowabunga! They're Burning Books OnlineNo Matter What the Approach, Sex Ed Works"I was horrified, just by the newsletter," she said.

After finding the book at the library, Karkos -- a mother of two grown children and grandmother to two young boys -- checked it out and read it. She said it teaches children that their bodies are like a "plaything."

"This is a sex initiation book," she said.


Karkos would prefer that children in the age group targeted by "It's Perfectly Normal" receive gender-specific information at school about their changing bodies. There's no reason, she said, that they need to know about sexually transmitted diseases, abortion or birth control.

Karkos even went so far as to send a check for $20.95 to the library, the cost of the book plus tax. When the check was returned along with a copy of library procedures, she mailed it back.

Karkos tried bringing her protest before city officials, saying the book violated city ordinances on obscenity. Her objection was overruled.

Karkos appeared in court in December after receiving a routine civil summons for not complying with library procedure. She pleaded not guilty.


Her civil trial, held Wednesday, ended with 8th District Court Judge Valerie Stanfill telling Karkos that if she did not return the book by 4 p.m. today, she could be found in contempt of court, which could lead to jail time and even heftier fines than if she would have paid the library's late fees.

Grandmother JoAn Karko is refusing to return a library book on the grounds that it is inappriopriate for children. She could face jail time if she doesn't return it soon.
(Maine affiliate WMTW)Lewiston Police Sgt. David Chick said this is the first case he's heard of in his department where a resident faces possible jail time for refusing to return a library book. Usually, he said, the initial civil summons resolves most problems with overdue library materials.

The case, which received coverage from local media outlets, has spurred residents to take sides, Chick said, though most lean with the town and legal officials.

"I would say that the comments are somewhere in the range of four out of five … saying that she's overstepped her place within society," Chick said.

But one group that fully supports Karkos is the American Life League.

Related
Christian Schools Want God for CreditMedical Pork: What Studies You Pay forGay Pre-Teens Come Out but No Support "The book is pornography," league researcher Michael Hichborn said, referencing a portion of the book that pictures a boy and a girl masturbating.

"We want people to do what they can to get the book out of the libraries, out of the schools," he said.

The book's author, Robie Harris, is a member of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America Board of Advocates.


"Planned Parenthood has the nation's largest network of sexual health educators, providing accurate, age-appropriate information to teens and adults in schools, health centers and communities nationwide," the organization said in a statement Thursday. "Planned Parenthood sexual health educators find that the book is [a] valuable resource for age-appropriate, comprehensive sex education and recommends it widely to parents."

Chick said the issue over whether or not the book is appropriate reading material isn't up to one citizen.

Library director Rick Speer agreed.

"The book has gone out 48 times in 13 years and one person has a problem with it," he said.

Parents, he said, have thanked library staff for stocking the book. The check Karkos mailed back to the library remains there, uncashed.

"Our books aren't for sale," Speer said.

Robie Harris' book, "It's Perfectly Normal" is among the most frequently challenged books in the country, according to the American Library Association.
(amazon.com)Karkos' grip on the book hasn't stopped children from viewing it at the library. When news of her crusade first hit the media in the fall, Speer said, the library received eight copies in the mail, five of which are now on the shelves.

Speer noted that Karkos ignored other avenues for getting the book removed from the library's collections, including filing a formal objection.

Related
Are Same Sex Schools Illegal?Karkos said she declined to do so because she believed the wording of the library's procedures indicated it wouldn't side with her anyway.


"It's Perfectly Normal" ranked No. 9 on the American Library Association's 2007 compilation of most frequently challenged books. Speer said it nabbed the top spot a few years ago. The book also ranked No. 15 on the association's Top 100 challenged books from 1990 to 2000.

[NYC Drew]

she can regulate HER kids as much as she likes...

[Model19]

As long as kids read, I could care less what they read.

[DaleGribble]

she can regulate HER kids as much as she likes...

Bingo!

Lock her ass up. She's a thief that needs to get off of her high horse and let other parents worry about raising their own children!

[1811guy2]

You will go blind and grow hair on your palms.

[PeterJasonMN]

Annoying busybody. Hope granny likes 3 hots and a cot.

[KusoJijii]

Great American Hero:
http://notso.silent-e.com/images/greatest_american_hero.jpg

[wolfman97]

I predict two outcomes:

1) Granny will take the jail sentence and march in fierce defiance and become the Cindy Sheehan to the ban-the-books crowd. We will see her again in the news.

2) People from around the country will send the library enough new copies of that book to fill another library building.

[mike7465]

Hard call.
Funny thing. Try getting a good book about comparative economics out of the library and they will tell you that someone can keep it for like 4 months. Then that it wasn't returned. Then that they will have to order a new one, and that will take like 10 weeks.
I think this lady is making her point the hard way.

[uneasyrider]

Holy Cow! I am a big reader and use the library all the time and if I don't return a book they just make me pay for it or I can't take out any others. They don't put your butt in jail for it.

[Santa CruZin]

Does seem a little harsh; would someone spend time in jail for getting caught stealing it from a local bookstore, or would they get a fine and bucket of soapy water to wash police cruisers with for the next 8 weekends?

Sure she has no business meddling in the affairs of children who are not her own, but jail over a library book?

[Turtle13]

Earplugs, blindfolds and gags...thats what educates the masses right?


She's an idiot.

[PeterJasonMN]

There's a semi-local case going on that's hit the national wires.


Lady is MUCHO overdue on her books. Library sends it to the courts. Court gives her a summons to appear. She ignores it. She gets cuffed. Now people are screaming how "She's going to jail over overdue books!!!" and getting their panties in a twist. They're conveniently forgetting the whole thing about she ignored a court's order to appear before them.

[Peace Warrior]

Gives new meaning to library fines.

She's a hero in my book! You go grandma! Give me your cake recipe and I'll make you one with a file or some hacksaw blades in it. :whistling:

9 - 12 year old kids do not need to read about sex in a book written by some obvious closet pedophile or tin foil hat wearing socialist bent on corrupting American kids! Besides, let 9 - 12 year old kids play with dolls and or tonka trucks when they are not at the range shooting or in the woods hunting with Dad and Mom. Regardless, let them get their sex education from their parents.

[Peace Warrior]

sorry all, photo site was taking forever! (dang hackers!)

here is the contents page:

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x262/PhotoKeith/bookforkids.jpg

I hope this does NOT violate GT TOS.

You go granny!


+++++++++++++++++++++++++

source: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31TZSQQC5NL._SL500_PIlitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA198_.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.amazon.com/Its-Perfectly-Normal-Changing-Growing/dp/product-description/1564021599&h=198&w=198&sz=10&tbnid=bN9NTWwWOaYJ::&tbnh=104&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2527It%2527s%2BPerfectly%2BNormal%2527&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=2&ct=image&cd=1

[Texas357]

Didn't a priest do that with some books about homosexuality a few years back?


People like that think they are making a point, but what most people perceive is that they are uptight, afraid, and don't have a very strong argument.

Book banners should be burned.

[crimsonaudio]

Annoying busybody - I'll choose what my kids read. I don't need her attempts at censorship.

[PeterJasonMN]

If YOU don't want YOUR kids reading a book about sex, it is YOUR job to monitor YOUR child. Plain and simple.

[Turtle13]

If YOU don't want YOUR kids reading a book about sex, it is YOUR job to monitor YOUR child. Plain and simple.

http://www.lab1663.net/images/buddy_christ.jpg

[PeterJasonMN]

"WHAT WHAT WHAT????"
http://www.the-manifest.org/blog/kyles_mom.jpg

[wolfman97]

Gives new meaning to library fines.

She's a hero in my book! You go grandma! Give me your cake recipe and I'll make you one with a file or some hacksaw blades in it. :whistling:

9 - 12 year old kids do not need to read about sex in a book written by some obvious closet pedophile or tin foil hat wearing socialist bent on corrupting American kids! Besides, let 9 - 12 year old kids play with dolls and or tonka trucks when they are not at the range shooting or in the woods hunting with Dad and Mom. Regardless, let them get their sex education from their parents.

So books on sex education should be banned from public libraries?

Personally, I never thought about sex when I was 9-12. No. Not me. No way. I waited until I was 21.

[PeterJasonMN]

So books on sex education should be banned from public libraries?

Personally, I never thought about sex when I was 9-12. No. Not me. No way. I waited until I was 21.


"BULL****"
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/images/topguniceman.JPG

[mike7465]

sorry all, photo site was taking forever! (dang hackers!)

here is the contents page:

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x262/PhotoKeith/bookforkids.jpg

I hope this does NOT violate GT TOS.

You go granny!


+++++++++++++++++++++++++

source: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31TZSQQC5NL._SL500_PIlitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA198_.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.amazon.com/Its-Perfectly-Normal-Changing-Growing/dp/product-description/1564021599&h=198&w=198&sz=10&tbnid=bN9NTWwWOaYJ::&tbnh=104&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2527It%2527s%2BPerfectly%2BNormal%2527&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=2&ct=image&cd=1


Wait a second:
Straight or gay is 3 pages, but where do babies come from is 1 page, desire is 2 pages???
I think I am going to side with grandma.
3 pages on gay :whistling:
Seems like someone is pushing an agenda.

[hardballing]

Censorship is wrong imo.

Whether Obama does it.

Or Granny.

Values toward sex should be taught by parents, not selected by someone else's Grandma.

Just my vote.

[wolfman97]

Wait a second:
Straight or gay is 3 pages, but where do babies come from is 1 page, desire is 2 pages???
I think I am going to side with grandma.
3 pages on gay :whistling:
Seems like someone is pushing an agenda.

So what should the ratio be for the book to be allowable in a public library?

[Peace Warrior]

Censorship is wrong imo.

Whether Obama does it.

Or Granny.

Values toward sex should be taught by parents, not selected by someone else's Grandma.

Just my vote.
Exactly the point. The "values" here are being "taught" by the book's author, which this book isn't about values or education.

I question all the actual authors' bias and interest that think writing a book, which is targeting 9 - 12 year old kids, on the subject of sexual issues or sex period!

It is even more telling when seeing the actual topics that this author has chosen to "describe." This book is about indoctrination plain and simple. It is NOT about education and granny knows it. It has nothing to do with science and or health issues, which is what 9 to 12 year old kids should be learning about in school and through the libraries by proxy. I am not one for censorship of what adults are allowed to participate in or voluntarily choose, but this is about brain washing an unsuspecting child. Period.

[PeterJasonMN]

And again, my point is if you're a parent, it is YOUR responsibility to screen what your children watch/read. It is NOT gramma's job to be the little Library Nazi and telling people what books they can and not read read.

If YOU don't want your child reading a book like that from the library, the easy thing would be to go to the library with them, and not let them check it out.



But that's too hard for parents to do today it seems, since about 90% of the parents I run into in this area are such self-involved ***holes they wouldn't know if their kid was snorting coke off the cat, let alone if they were reading a book about, heaven forbid, how sometimes two men or two women fall in love.

[wolfman97]

Exactly the point. The "values" here are being "taught" by the book's author, which this book isn't about values or education.

I question all the actual authors' bias and interest that think writing a book, which is targeting 9 - 12 year old kids, on the subject of sexual issues or sex period!

It is even more telling when seeing the actual topics that this author has chosen to "describe." This book is about indoctrination plain and simple. It is NOT about education and granny knows it. It has nothing to do with science and or health issues, which is what 9 to 12 year old kids should be learning about in school and through the libraries by proxy. I am not one for censorship of what adults are allowed to participate in or voluntarily choose, but this is about brain washing an unsuspecting child. Period.

So books should be banned from the library if an unsuspecting child might see them?

[Peace Warrior]

So books should be banned from the library if an unsuspecting child might see them?
This is a not a book per se, it is a manual printed to indoctrinate 9 to 12 year old children.

I ask you: Should 9 to 12 year old children be brainwashed about appropriate sexual activity by a book? Or should children be taught and educated about sex by their parents?

[Peace Warrior]

So books should be banned from the library if an unsuspecting child might see them?
btw- There are quite a few books, due to the content, not allowed in public/school libraries.

[wolfman97]

This is a not a book per se, it is a manual printed to indoctrinate 9 to 12 year old children.

OK, so how does one tell the difference between a "book" and a "manual", and what are the objective standards for keeping it out of the library?

I ask you: Should 9 to 12 year old children be brainwashed about appropriate sexual activity by a book? Or should children be taught and educated about sex by their parents?

Those questions could be fairly debated, but they aren't the question here. The question is: What are your objective standards for banning a book from a library?

Do all books get banned from the library if children shouldn't read them?

[wolfman97]

btw- There are quite a few books, due to the content, not allowed in public/school libraries.

School libraries are different than public libraries. But what is the objective standard that you want to apply?

You know, some clear simple rule that anyone could follow if they didn't have your good judgment standing there beside them.

[TheStreetKing]

As long as kids read, I could care less what they read.
Hope your not serious, Reading is good but there are limitations. Would you let your kids read Gay Porn Magazines?

[fnfalman]

Hope your not serious, Reading is good but there are limitations. Would you let your kids read Gay Porn Magazines?

Is gay porn magazine somehow worst than straight porn magazine?

[PrincessCelica]

Is gay porn magazine somehow worst than straight porn magazine?

If you read gay porn magazines, you might catch "the gay" :faint: :upeyes:

[PrincessCelica]

I voted annoying busybody. I think a book like this would be a great tool for parents to use, if they were to read it to their children. Talking to your kids about sex can be an awkward thing.

I got most of my education about sex/puberty from school. All I really got from my parents was a Mr. Mackey-esque "Sex is bad, mmmkay?" I started my period at a young age (I was 10), and really had no clue what was going on. An avid reader, if I had had a book like this, maybe it wouldn't have been so scary. Of course, my parents probably would have read it with me. Or had me read it and come to them with any questions. My $.02

[wolfman97]

Is gay porn magazine somehow worst than straight porn magazine?

Seeing any porn magazine is irrevocably scarring for children. Think about the first time you saw porn at a tender age. Traumatized you for life, I bet, and you are still trying to recover.

Me? I just review the stuff so I can be sure what to keep away from children. My God, there is a lot of work to do.

[wolfman97]

I voted annoying busybody. I think a book like this would be a great tool for parents to use, if they were to read it to their children. Talking to your kids about sex can be an awkward thing.

I got most of my education about sex/puberty from school. All I really got from my parents was a Mr. Mackey-esque "Sex is bad, mmmkay?" I started my period at a young age (I was 10), and really had no clue what was going on. An avid reader, if I had had a book like this, maybe it wouldn't have been so scary. Of course, my parents probably would have read it with me. Or had me read it and come to them with any questions. My $.02

Let me guess. Your parents were of the mind that libraries and schools should not teach that because it should be done by the parents at home.

Am I close?

Typically, I find that people who say that sex education should only be done in the home are those who are the least equipped to do it. Typically, they are the best examples of why their own arguments are wrong.

[Model19]

Hope your not serious, Reading is good but there are limitations. Would you let your kids read Gay Porn Magazines?

LOL I get your point, but thankfully the government has stepped in and protected him from purchasing them and he certainly won't find those magazines in MY house or in the public library.

You really should keep yours in a safe if that is a legitimate concern.

[PrincessCelica]

Let me guess. Your parents were of the mind that libraries and schools should not teach that because it should be done by the parents at home.

Am I close?

Typically, I find that people who say that sex education should only be done in the home are those who are the least equipped to do it. Typically, they are the best examples of why their own arguments are wrong.

They signed the permission slips every year it was time for sex ed in school. So no. But they really didn't elaborate too much on what was taught in school beyond just "Wait until marriage."

[TheStreetKing]

LOL I get your point, but thankfully the government has stepped in and protected him from purchasing them and he certainly won't find those magazines in MY house or in the public library.

You really should keep yours in a safe if that is a legitimate concern.

I read Playboys and Hustlers magazines that me and my friends swiped from our Parents Rooms when we were 12 years old. Such the good times. I agree with you that reading for a child is good but there's some material that's not appropriate at certain ages.

[TheStreetKing]

Is gay porn magazine somehow worst than straight porn magazine?
By about a 1000%.

[Model19]

I read Playboys and Hustlers magazines that me and my friends swiped from our Parents Rooms when we were 12 years old. Such the good times. I agree with you that reading for a child is good but there's some material that's not appropriate at certain ages.

Albeit gay porn and children is not up for discussion, if the only thing I could get my child to read was questionable material, then I'm afraid I would have to let them read. Reading is fundamental.

[wolfman97]

I read Playboys and Hustlers magazines that me and my friends swiped from our Parents Rooms when we were 12 years old. Such the good times. I agree with you that reading for a child is good but there's some material that's not appropriate at certain ages.

Which brings up a question. You encountered porn at 12. Do you feel that you were irrevocably damaged by this experience? If so, how?

ETA: Do you think you would have been irrevocably damaged if you stumbled across a box of gay porn?

[wolfman97]

Albeit gay porn and children is not up for discussion, if the only thing I could get my child to read was questionable material, then I'm afraid I would have to let them read. Reading is fundamental.

I guess the sentence "See Dick run." works the same in both books.:supergrin:

[CAcop]

This is a not a book per se, it is a manual printed to indoctrinate 9 to 12 year old children.

I ask you: Should 9 to 12 year old children be brainwashed about appropriate sexual activity by a book? Or should children be taught and educated about sex by their parents?

No one is forcing kids to read this. IF a parent wants to check out this book and give it to their kid rather they should be able to do that.

Instead this useless old bitty who needs a hobby and a life is preventing parents from making that choice.

Some people never grew up and learned sex really isn't bad like their parents told them it was to keep them from doing it.

[PeterJasonMN]

Let's just rid ourselves of all books with which we disagree:
http://www.fictionscribe.com/wp-content/uploads/book_burn.jpg

[TylerDurden]

Let's just rid ourselves of all books with which we disagree:
http://www.fictionscribe.com/wp-content/uploads/book_burn.jpg


No ****.

Unlike most here, I've worked in a public library and people pulled this kind of thing all the time. People would deface books they didn't like, rip pages out - one old lady checked out all the "Murder She Wrote" paperbacks and crossed out every "hell" and "damn".

Public libraries catch hell if they don't carry something for moral reasons, as they should, since they are government funded.

We even had the Madonna sex book (keep in mind, this is UTAH) and we would have checked it out like any other book if people would've stopped stealing copies or tearing pages out.

Kids and adults had different library cards, but if a librarian decided something belonged in the children's section, any kid could check it out... if you don't like it, go to the library with them or don't give them a library card. It's just like television, radio, movies, etc.

[srhoades]

As long as kids read, I could care less what they read.

And NAMBLA agrees with you, which is why they meet in our public libraries (under constitutional protection) to discuss/trade literature on how to lure/molest boys.

[TylerDurden]

And NAMBLA agrees with you, which is why they meet in our public libraries (under constitutional protection) to discuss/trade literature on how to lure/molest boys.

Did you get that in an email forward or something?

I worked in seven different libraries and never saw a NAMBLA meeting.

[HollowHead]

Anyone who supports this woman probably admires the Mutaween. HH