Filipino Steel

[Neo Headhunter]

For centuries the Filipno have always been making blades both for utility and defense. How can we forget the Kampilan that have felled Magelllan, the Barong that have led to the american marines wearing leather around their necks hence the name "leather necks". The Balisong or beintenueve that is so feared & respected worldwide. The ginunting that that the Phil. Marines are using now beside their M16.

I was fortunate enough to acquire hand forged, hand made in every detail and oil quenced live blades from Grand Master Fred Lazo a Barong and Ginunting. Even the brass collar around the handle is smelted from .223 casings, copper brading around the handle and carved designs on the scabbard. Not only is it Filipino steel but Filipino Steel made by a Kali Master.
I feel very lucky and want to share these with everyone. I will post pics ff this post.

[chowchow]

Do they use the leaf spring of vehicle chassis as raw material ? Those are real tough metal.

[cxray]

:needspics:

[Neo Headhunter]

Sorry took me a while to resize pics.
Grandmaster Fred allowed me to see how he made the blades - yes he did use spring steel that he pounded himself-whew!

[Neo Headhunter]

Grand Master Fred Lazo, Kali/Arnis Master Sword Smith a hidden National Treasure to the Philippines

[chowchow]

Magkano magpagawa ganon? Matibay x 2 yan.

[Neo Headhunter]

depende kung ano ng blade at kung ano ang ipapalagay mo, any where between $250-350 starting. Considering na custom made, hand forged authentic kali master, I think its a steal for this steel:supergrin:
Think about what the japanese swordsmith would charge someone for an authentic katana.:shocked:

[gen1]

worked leafspring blades are a bit brittle. I've had a few that have shattered on impact with hard objects.

They have a panday-culture in cotabato, and very good hand worked blades can be had for 200-300 pesos. If you bring them old leafsprings you can get additional discounts :supergrin:

[isuzu]

Use Hino leaf springs. IMO, they're better than Isuzu or Fuso leaf springs.

There are very good blacksmiths in Panay. We bought several "binangon" and "guinunting" about 20 years ago, and they're still being used back home. They are even used to break the bones of the goat we slaughter.

[chowchow]

Hino is the truck brand by Toyota, diba ?

[atmarcella]

when i was a teenager i had the coil springs of my corolla dx cut para lowered sya and the "standby" there made knives out of it, it could cut thru thick bamboo in one swipe!

sad thing is i dunno where it is right now! its somewhere in my house im sure.

[isuzu]

when i was a teenager i had the coil springs of my corolla dx cut para lowered sya and the "standby" there made knives out of it, it could cut thru thick bamboo in one swipe!

sad thing is i dunno where it is right now! its somewhere in my house im sure.

The springs that go across the front suspension on German-assembled Beetles are sought after by sabungeros. They make them into gaffs.

[isuzu]

Hino is the truck brand by Toyota, diba ?

Hino used to be a company by itself until Toyota bought it. They make very good trucks. Toyota also bought Daihatsu.

[Neo Headhunter]

worked leafspring blades are a bit brittle. I've had a few that have shattered on impact with hard objects.

They have a panday-culture in cotabato, and very good hand worked blades can be had for 200-300 pesos. If you bring them old leafsprings you can get additional discounts :supergrin:

That was a concern for Master Fred as well kaya nya pina heat treated & oil quenched. He went thru the added expense of having this done after he made the blades.
Pag shinort cut at nagtipid ang gumagawa yan nga marupok/brittle- murakasi:supergrin:

[edtf]

Hino is the truck brand by Toyota, diba ?

Mitsubishi ata yon --- oopppsss mali :)

Added question - how do yo know if it is for a hino?? any marking? I bought a used leaf spring and I'm planning to use it to make blades for the farm

[chowchow]

Kung galing Japan, ano yata ang gamit sa gumagawa ng Samurai ?

[Allegra]

Added question - how do yo know if it is for a hino?? any marking? I bought a used leaf spring and I'm planning to use it to make blades for the farm


A plano ko bumili muna ng trak
Saka ko ipapagawa yung itak

[gen1]

ang best size ng leafspring for itak ay yung trak na kasing laki ng forward. tamang-tama lang ang kapal.

marami na akong napagawan ng itak sa iba't-ibang probinsiya, pero da best parin ang gawa sa cotabato.

ang nakakatawa, kahit saang probinsiya, standard ang rate na 200-300 pesos. parang may association ang mga panday :lol:

[arzon]

San ba nakakabili ng good quality itak within Metro Manila?

[BrassKnuckle]

Robert Cato's book "Moro Swords" is a nice an interesting read. Matututo kang galangin yung mga traditional Moro bladesmiths.

One of their favorite raw material for making swords were the worn barrels of Mauser rifles (which the Spaniards used). No wonder I read somewhere that Moro swords were made from Krupp steel. Dun pala galing yung bakal...

Meron pa kayang mga oldtimer sa Mindanao who can make laminated blades?

[brawnless]

Use Hino leaf springs. IMO, they're better than Isuzu or Fuso leaf springs.


Mitsubishi ata yon --- oopppsss mali :)

Added question - how do yo know if it is for a hino?? any marking? I bought a used leaf spring and I'm planning to use it to make blades for the farm

There are local leaf spring manufacturers in the country that supply the after market parts. With a business startup of more than 20 years ago, a strong government restriction (ban) on the importation of leaf springs at that time, and a high demand by bladesmiths / exporters, one may not find an "original" leaf spring as easily as before.

To answer the question, there are (painted) markings on each leaf spring. Not quite sure but the format (if memory serves right) should be: xxxx-xxxx for the original Hino and xxx-x or xxxx for the locally made ones.

[Neo Headhunter]

Palagay ko meron, sword making is a lost art I think, anybody can pound metal, but pound metal so that the balance of the blade is right, the angle of the handle is correct and the edge can hold as well well as the grounding is right is crucial. Look up Hossom's thread in blade forum where he discusses the attributes of a blade- interesting read.

[chowchow]

Sa Iraq maraming mga destroyed equipment. Yung sa mga HUmvees , okey yata yun ?
Diba ang mga muslims they have the Kris sword, one with the wavy blade ?

[chowchow]

Kaya nga pala walang Mausers naiwan sa atin. Only in museums.


Robert Cato's book "Moro Swords" is a nice an interesting read. Matututo kang galangin yung mga traditional Moro bladesmiths.

One of their favorite raw material for making swords were the worn barrels of Mauser rifles (which the Spaniards used). No wonder I read somewhere that Moro swords were made from Krupp steel. Dun pala galing yung bakal...

Meron pa kayang mga oldtimer sa Mindanao who can make laminated blades?

[Neo Headhunter]

Master Fred with me holding the ginunting at the FCS Summer Gathering

[isuzu]

Added question - how do yo know if it is for a hino?? any marking? I bought a used leaf spring and I'm planning to use it to make blades for the farm

The best way to determine if it's an original Hino leaf spring is to get it from a Hino truck that has been scrapped. :)

[isuzu]

Kung galing Japan, ano yata ang gamit sa gumagawa ng Samurai ?

Do a search about Samurai swords and you'll be surprised how many steps it takes to make a Samurai sword.

It takes years and years for a sword maker to perfect the craft.

[chowchow]

maraming surplus sa Banaue Street.

[JBJ16]

Do a search about Samurai swords and you'll be surprised how many steps it takes to make a Samurai sword.

It takes years and years for a sword maker to perfect the craft.

That's right. It takes thousands of folds from a 2x2x6 pc of steel. (Thats right the steel is folded over and over like a waffer) to make a japanese katana. Totally different method from making a Filipino kampilan or ginunting. Also the cutting edge of the katana takes a different heat treatment from the rest of the blade.

[Neo Headhunter]

Baka pwede namang magpost din kung sino ang meron sarili nilang Filipino Steel- kahit may kalawang:supergrin:

[Kaiser Soze]

Master Fred with me holding the ginunting at the FCS Summer Gathering

Thanks for sharing these photos man!

[lytningfox]

Baka pwede namang magpost din kung sino ang meron sarili nilang Filipino Steel- kahit may kalawang:supergrin:

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa124/lytingfox/DSC00234.jpg
Here's mine, except from the CS Kobun (third from top) all are made by Filipino Blakcsmith. (From top to Bottom: Kris, "i dont know what they call this thing", kobun, Push dagger.)

[lytningfox]

BTW, Can you guys please help me to identify what this Weapon is ? It was recovered by my father from captured Muslim Smugglers in Tawi-Tawi.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa124/lytingfox/DSC00240.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa124/lytingfox/DSC00239.jpg

Tres Kantos with Blood Groove

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa124/lytingfox/DSC00241.jpg

Pry Bar

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa124/lytingfox/DSC00242.jpg

[doki_j]

Nice blades!

[Neo Headhunter]

Cool Kris, looks like it's an original, down to the serration by the base of the blade. Yung isa I think thats a home made special- pwedeng arnis/ kali stick with a blade at the edge to transition from blunt weapon to lethal edge. Ingunuity nga naman ng Pilipino ano!

[Allegra]

I'm curious , are you guys fascinated w/ blades because they are deadly na maganda or you really intend to use it as a weapon?
I'm really interested in
How do you mentally prepare youself to hack someone w/ a sword?

[Neo Headhunter]

I think there is little difference between ones fascination for the knife/sword vs the pistol/rifle. Don't you think, yun nga lang blade is very primal, almost personal. If a blade is used it has to be upclose and personal, the possibility of lethality delivered with the reality of experiencing the consequences of your action right before your very eyes. I think the blade is an object of beauty that demands respect. It is forged by a pair of hands through heat and impact of metal on metal. I personally collect it because of its beauty and my perceived value and importance to each blade. Di ba for the regular Joe smoe-"pare-pareho lang yan" for them. The $10 machete will also cut like the $5000 katana for basic hacking, but why do we choose to seek out and possess the latter? I think it is because we as contemporary men still want to hold on too values of yesteryears- a code of honor, bravery and dedication to family. Contrary to what people think we are not brutes who just embrace violence, we choose to learn skills not practiced by the regular person a level of refined civility with consequence to who wish us hostile intent. We believe that as we train to use these tools we also prepare ourselves mentally. I do not think we premeditate on the idea of hacking someone just as we don't premeditate on shooting just anyone, but through the motor function that we subject ourselves I think that it is the preparation in using a tool when a jobs needs to be done and done right.

[gen1]

BTW, Can you guys please help me to identify what this Weapon is ? It was recovered by my father from captured Muslim Smugglers in Tawi-Tawi.



They look like implements used by akyat bahay. :wow:

[jimbullet]

Professional made as it looks

[Allegra]

I think there is little difference between ones fascination for the knife/sword vs the pistol/rifle. Don't you think, yun nga lang blade is very primal, almost personal. If a blade is used it has to be upclose and personal, the possibility of lethality delivered with the reality of experiencing the consequences of your action right before your very eyes. I think the blade is an object of beauty that demands respect. It is forged by a pair of hands through heat and impact of metal on metal. I personally collect it because of its beauty and my perceived value and importance to each blade. Di ba for the regular Joe smoe-"pare-pareho lang yan" for them. The $10 machete will also cut like the $5000 katana for basic hacking, but why do we choose to seek out and possess the latter? I think it is because we as contemporary men still want to hold on too values of yesteryears- a code of honor, bravery and dedication to family. Contrary to what people think we are not brutes who just embrace violence, we choose to learn skills not practiced by the regular person a level of refined civility with consequence to who wish us hostile intent. We believe that as we train to use these tools we also prepare ourselves mentally. I do not think we premeditate on the idea of hacking someone just as we don't premeditate on shooting just anyone, but through the motor function that we subject ourselves I think that it is the preparation in using a tool when a jobs needs to be done and done right.


Actually my first question was related to my second question
But since it seems you actually do train to use blades , I'm interested in how you mentally prepare yourself to fight w/ a long blade

While I would probably be able to hit a guy w/ a bolo once , pero the resulting damage and screams of pain would probably shock the @#$% out of me :)
Mas madali kasi baril , center of mass di mo kailangan makita muka nya

[Neo Headhunter]

I think the question also goes both ways, how do you prepare to shoot someone? The way I look at it the pistol is one tool, that is when we have the option to use it. Well what will I do when I really can't use my pistol because the BG is in my house and the bullet that I shoot may unintentionally hit the the very people I am protecting di ba. Do you go hand to hand if there is more than one? I wouldn't, I'll pull out a short blade, if I have a choice, but if I need to end it quick and keep them at a distance heck I will use the sword/machete/ barong. After you hack a limb off I think the other BG will think twice about coming at you. It's a fight ender. I think mentally one needs to prepare one's self to do what ever it takes to protect your family. The sane person prepares to use justifiable force to defend life & limb the insane person mentally thinks of "hacking" some one. We as law abiding citizens would not want to wish harm to our fellow man however if they choose to cross the boundery and threatens those whom I love-ibang usapan na yan. Arnis, Escrima, Kali are all blade arts, yes sticks are used for training but they all started as a sword and or dagger application.

[Kaiser Soze]

I think the question also goes both ways, how do you prepare to shoot someone? The way I look at it the pistol is one tool, that is when we have the option to use it. Well what will I do when I really can't use my pistol because the BG is in my house and the bullet that I shoot may unintentionally hit the the very people I am protecting di ba. Do you go hand to hand if there is more than one? I wouldn't, I'll pull out a short blade, if I have a choice, but if I need to end it quick and keep them at a distance heck I will use the sword/machete/ barong. After you hack a limb off I think the other BG will think twice about coming at you. It's a fight ender. I think mentally one needs to prepare one's self to do what ever it takes to protect your family. The sane person prepares to use justifiable force to defend life & limb the insane person mentally thinks of "hacking" some one. We as law abiding citizens would not want to wish harm to our fellow man however if they choose to cross the boundery and threatens those whom I love-ibang usapan na yan. Arnis, Escrima, Kali are all blade arts, yes sticks are used for training but they all started as a sword and or dagger application.

@Allegra

Just to add to this great explanation by NeoHeadhunter, we have to work with what's at hand, and to learn more than one defensive skill. Its not enough to be a good shooter, since knives and impact weapons are faster at close distances. Actually its been proven that knives are fatal versus guns at 21 feet! (Check out the video Surviving Edged Weapons if you have the chance)

I agree that firearms proficiency is a skill worth having, and may be a lifesaver, but we have to cross train in other things as well if we truly want to be able to defend ourselves. We don't always have our firearm on us, PTC or no PTC, its good to be able to defend yourself with what's at hand, whether it be a knife, a stick, or your bare hands. :supergrin:

[Allegra]

guys, I'm not doubting how deadly the blade is nor if it's necessary

Ganun din kasi sa baril
I can train w/ guns till my hands bleed , pero how am I sure I will not hesitate pag kailangan na gamitin
So I do conditioniong and desensitizing techniques for guns( naks , yeah right :)) )

what about sa blades?
LALO na sa blades!!
errr....chop of a limb??
Ngayon pa lang , my brain is violently rejecting the idea haha

[Kaiser Soze]

Just like firearms training, with enough training and repetition, coupled with the correct mindset, it becomes second nature. :)

Your brain is rejecting the idea, much like a gun newbie rejects the thought actually having to use his pistol in a defensive situation, because its a new concept (God knows that I was terrified at the idea, but like you said, you do desensitizing exercises and mindset training, and you let the thought of defending your loved ones take over), but if you hang out with guys like NeoHeadhunter, Bien, Dr. Carlos, Guro Rommel Tortal, or Tuhon Gaje, it won't seem so alien, and you'll find that its very fascinating and is quite frankly, addictive, much like firearms. :)

[mikey177]

^ In addition, thinking about the consequences of NOT defending yourself can be a powerful motivator.

[Allegra]

Kakaiba mindset jan
Hindi naman yata ako duwag pero hack wounds scare the @#$% out of me

We have a farm in a tough place in the boondocks
Our caretaker is the resident siga
After a heated discussion w/ the owner of an adjacent farm
My caretaker goes there and chops off the legs of cattle na maabutan nya
Even up to now , my knees hurt pag naiisip ko yun
I wouldnt be shocked if he just went over and shot the cows
Kaso tinaga ack
Pinagsabihan ko siya wag na wag nya ako gugulatin hehe

Teka pala , dun sa bundok maganda mag desensitize
Tuwing fiesta , sigurado may tagaan
Libre manuod

[atmarcella]

madali lang e program mind nyo to use a "hacking weapon". sell all your guns! kung wala ka na choice tapos yun lang ang gamit mo pag kina kailangan gagamitin mo din yun hahaha.

[Neo Headhunter]

one of the seminars in Filipino Combat Systems, we prepare an actual first responder slide presentation of various wounds brought about by stabbing and slashing wounds. The way we see it, not only should somebody be ready to use the tool that they train with but they should also see the possibilities and consequences of their action. Some of them are pretty graphic and stomach turning, but its a way to show people the lethality and gravity of their actions should they choose to use it. Besides utilization of an edge weapon for maximum effect we teach the anatomical targets as well as reactive body response by the BG. there's responsible gunownership there's also responsible blade ownership:supergrin:

[Allegra]

one of the seminars in Filipino Combat Systems, we prepare an actual first responder slide presentation of various wounds brought about by stabbing and slashing wounds. The way we see it, not only should somebody be ready to use the tool that they train with but they should also see the possibilities and consequences of their action. Some of them are pretty graphic and stomach turning, but its a way to show people the lethality and gravity of their actions should they choose to use it. Besides utilization of an edge weapon for maximum effect we teach the anatomical targets as well as reactive body response by the BG. there's responsible gunownership there's also responsible blade ownership:supergrin:

Galing! :)
If you have seminars soon please tell the group

[Neo Headhunter]

Check out Filipino Combat Systems on some knife techniques since KALI is a blade art theres a lot of concepts that will be helpful for blade application:pepper:

[mikey177]

Armscor also held a one day edged weapons seminar I think last year. It was well worth the three hour trip from our province. Maybe you could ask them if they plan to hold similar training sessions in the future.