NY Spring install

[bcarr001]

Well I just installed the spring and the trigger now feels pretty different. I like the wieght but it doesnt feel like its properly in. Theres some play in the trigger front to back when the trigger is all the way back (as in when the slide hasnt been racked and the trigger cannot be pulled back. Is this normal?
Thanks.

[Arc Angel]

Yeah, and now when you disassemble the pistol you're going to have to hold the trigger to the rear, too.

[G36Packer]

It may depend on which model it is in. It does pretty well in my G23 with LW 3.5 # connector.

It is absolutely terrible in my G36 with LW 3.5 # connector. It tips the trigger bar to the side which appears to make it bind. The trigger pull is about twice as hard as the G23 in the same configuration.

And what Arc Angel said.

[bcarr001]

Yeah I'm really happy with the pull weight but the trigger feels a bit junky now. When I bought it I just thought it replaced the spring exactly how it was. A bit dissapointing but I'll shoot with it and see how it goes.

[J.P.]

I prefer the NY-1 spring over the stock coil spring for several reasons, the most of which is reliability.

[Ticman]

I installed the NY-1 and 3.5 connector in my 23 along with the .25 cent trigger job. I like it much better than stock config. Very smooth and even pull all the way thru the break. Got the rear site adjusted a little more to the right and it's now shooting dead on.

Tic

[Strada Man]

I prefer the NY-1 spring over the stock coil spring for several reasons, the most of which is reliability.

I agree. +1

Strada Man

[Arc Angel]

:upeyes: Reliability? It's, kind of, a moot point - Isn't it? What does the NY trigger do other than allow the pistol to more easily continue firing after the trigger (return) spring breaks?

Trigger (return) springs don't break all THAT often; and, when a conventional spring does break, you can still get additional shots off by holding the trigger to the rear and racking the slide by hand for the next (first) shot. Thereafter simply continue to hold the trigger to the rear between shots until after the slide has fully cycled; and, you can continue firing this way until the magazine is empty.

The most common problem I've seen (and, it's not all that common.) is a broken factory coil style trigger spring. I have heard of NY trigger springs breaking, but I've never actually seen one. The coil springs seem to be less durable.

If the spring (It is actually the "trigger reset" spring.) breaks the trigger will remain in the rearward position when the slide cycles. If you're in the middle of a gunfight, that's a huge problem. So here is a gunfight survival tip for you:

To keep the pistol running, hold the trigger to the rear and hand cycle the slide. Then release the pressure on the trigger and it will reset. You can keep firing that way, as long as you maintain rearward trigger pressure until after the slide has cycled. Actually, you might not even notice it in a gunfight, unless you let off on the trigger pretty quickly.

But it may happen, and now you know how to keep it running.*

I've, also, heard of NY springs breaking; however, that little plastic arm on the NY spring is supple enough to continue resetting the trigger for you. In this situation that plastic arm simply does exactly the same thing the shooter does when he consciously holds the trigger to the rear until after the slide has fully closed. Personally, where reliability is concerned, I think it's six of one, a half dozen of the other. ;)





* 'Glock Maintenance Tips', Steve Denney, Firearms Contributor, Officer.com, 12/11/06, Updated: 07/08/08.

[bcarr001]

I figured its a glock part so it should be just as trusty as other glock parts

[J.P.]

:upeyes: Reliability? It's, kind of, a moot point - Isn't it? What does the NY trigger do other than allow the pistol to more easily continue firing after the trigger (return) spring breaks?

Trigger (return) springs don't break all THAT often; and, when a conventional spring does break, you can still get additional shots off by holding the trigger to the rear and racking the slide by hand for the next (first) shot. Thereafter simply continue to hold the trigger to the rear between shots until after the slide has fully cycled; and, you can continue firing this way until the magazine is empty.



I've, also, heard of NY springs breaking; however, that little plastic arm on the NY spring is supple enough to continue resetting the trigger for you. In this situation that plastic arm simply does exactly the same thing the shooter does when he consciously holds the trigger to the rear until after the slide has fully closed. Personally, where reliability is concerned, I think it's six of one, a half dozen of the other. ;)





* 'Glock Maintenance Tips', Steve Denney, Firearms Contributor, Officer.com, 12/11/06, Updated: 07/08/08.

I've seen and had enough of the coil type break to be convinced, and I'm not sure I'd have the presence of mind to follow the "broken spring procedure" during a gunfight....particularly since I release the trigger as soon as the shot breaks.
Regardless, I also like the reset attributes of the NY spring better than the coil type....

[GMAN40]

Yeah, and now when you disassemble the pistol you're going to have to hold the trigger to the rear, too.


Yep!
:supergrin:

[JonInWA]

The "broken trigger return spring" issues are pretty much a past issue; Glock quietly modified the trigger return spring and its attachment point holes in the triggerbar and trigger mechanism housing components some time back; the new springs are a dull grey in color, and the holes are larger. This provides a stronger spring with less flex at the attachment points, virtually eliminating breakage. At a recent Glock Armorer's Course, neither the Instructor or the LE Rep present had seen or heard of any of these new springs breaking; a quick poll of the class revealed two spring breakages, but both were involving the older (shiny silver) springs on older Glocks.

Best, Jon

[happyguy]

Yeah, and now when you disassemble the pistol you're going to have to hold the trigger to the rear, too.

I have a NY1 in my G19 and my G23 and I don't have to do that.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

[Arc Angel]

I've seen and had enough of the coil type break to be convinced, and I'm not sure I'd have the presence of mind to follow the "broken spring procedure" during a gunfight....particularly since I release the trigger as soon as the shot breaks. Regardless, I also like the reset attributes of the NY spring better than the coil type....

:shocked: Really? Broken trigger springs are not a common problem - especially on newer Glocks. The slide usually returns to battery and beats my finger off the trigger. (I'm quick; but, before my finger can get off the trigger, the muzzle is either already down or almost down!) You must be really fast, man!

The "broken trigger return spring" issues is pretty much a past issue; Glock quietly modified the trigger return spring and its attachment point holes in the triggerbar and trigger mechanism housing components some time back; the new springs are a dull grey in color, and the hole are larger. This provides a stronger spring with less flex at the attachment points, virtually eliminating breakage. At a recent Glock Armorer's Course, neither the Instructor or the LE Rep present had seen or heard of any of these new springs breaking; a quick poll of the class revealed two spring breakages, but both were involving the older (shiney silver) springs on older Glocks.

:) Yup, that's right too! Thanks for the reminder. I'm running with all Wolff Gunsprings in my Glocks; so, spring quality is NOT an issue. (I've got the new #4256-1 trigger bars, too; you know, the ones with the larger attachment hole.) Until something goes wrong, I'm going to stay with the standard coil trigger springs.

I have a NY1 in my G19 and my G23 and I don't have to do that.

Must be magic! ;)

[J.P.]

The slide usually returns to battery and beats my finger off the trigger. (I'm quick; but, before my finger can get off the trigger, the muzzle is either already down or almost down!) You must be really fast, man!
I am fast.
If you are waiting for the slide to cycle completely before your finger moves, you haven't fully mastered the trigger.

I have fully released the trigger, and pulled it again back to the 'wall' before the sights recover from the recoil cycle.

That's a common technique though...
Break the shot and then release the trigger, and then pull it again to the wall during the recoil cycle.
Most of the fastest and most accurate shooters I know do it that way.....much faster than riding the reset point.

FWIW, I've seen or had coil type springs break even on newer Glocks....it happens.
I'm not saying it's extremely common or every one is destined to fail...but I know mine isn't going to. ;)

[Slab]

I have a 3.5 and Ny1 in my G22 similar pull weight, with a harder break at the end.
the trigger does have a spongy feel after firing if you move it around. I do have to pull the trigger to compress the NY1 a bit to pull the slide off.
Just 5 min ago i pulled the NY1 to go back to the standard spring. I shot about 10 range sessions with both installed and now im going to test a bit with just the 3.5 in there.

[J.P.]

I have a 3.5 and Ny1 in my G22 similar pull weight, with a harder break at the end.
the trigger does have a spongy feel after firing if you move it around. I do have to pull the trigger to compress the NY1 a bit to pull the slide off.
Just 5 min ago i pulled the NY1 to go back to the standard spring. I shot about 10 range sessions with both installed and now im going to test a bit with just the 3.5 in there.

I'm using a NY-1 with the stock 5.5# connector.

[Slab]

That has to be even worse on the pull. I've done a bit of dry firing this afternoon (raining) and i like the 3.5 with stock spring more than anything else so far

[J.P.]

That has to be even worse on the pull. I've done a bit of dry firing this afternoon (raining) and i like the 3.5 with stock spring more than anything else so far

It's not as bad as you'd think particularly because I've decreased the weight a bit.

[USMC06]

I use the LWD 3.5# connector and the NY-1 trigger spring on my carry Glocks. It is my preferred set-up after lots of experimentation over the years. I realize it may not be the preferred set-up for others.

I also get a more positive trigger reset on my IDPA/USPSA G34 with a Glockworx comp trigger kit. With the supplied coil trigger spring, and possibly because of the short pre-travel, my trigger does not always reset. Failing to reset happens infrequently with the comp coil trigger spring and only happens at the beginning of a mag insertion and loading, and does not usually happen after the first shot. My sister, however, had multiple similar problems with the same trigger kit and it may have costs her a place at last year's IDPA Nationals.

[J.P.]

I use the LWD 3.5# connector and the NY-1 trigger spring on my carry Glocks. It is my preferred set-up after lots of experimentation over the years. I realize it may not be the preferred set-up for others.

I also get a more positive trigger reset on my IDPA/USPSA G34 with a Glockworx comp trigger kit. With the supplied coil trigger spring, and possibly because of the short pre-travel, my trigger does not always reset. Failing to reset happens infrequently with the comp coil trigger spring and only happens at the beginning of a mag insertion and loading, and does not usually happen after the first shot. My sister, however, had multiple similar problems with the same trigger kit and it may have costs her a place at last year's IDPA Nationals.

It may use an extra power trigger spring.
Those are well known to cause reset problems, which is why some Glocksmiths will not use them.

[Slab]

I use the LWD 3.5# connector and the NY-1 trigger spring on my carry Glocks. It is my preferred set-up after lots of experimentation over the years. I realize it may not be the preferred set-up for others.



you should carry bone stock or as close as you can for carry. prosecutors love to rip people up for modifying their weapons "with intent to kill"
its always better to keep things as stock as you can right down to making sure that if you reload you use factory ammo to carry with.

[USMC06]

It may use an extra power trigger spring.
Those are well known to cause reset problems, which is why some Glocksmiths will not use them.

Thanks! Plz elaborate.

[Slab]

^^^^^

i think he is just talking about the NY1 and NY2 springs

[USMC06]

you should carry bone stock or as close as you can for carry. prosecutors love to tear people up for modifying their weapons "with intent to kill"
its always better to keep things as stock as you can right down to making sure that if you reload you use factory ammo to carry with.

Thanks for the advice and concern. I've been carrying for over 40 years in one capacity or another and I think I'm familiar with mosts of the stories about what is and is not acceptable in a courtroom. I have also been in enough law enforcement training/seminars that covered some of these issues.

[USMC06]

^^^^^

i think he is just talking about the NY1 and NY2 springs

I don't think so.

[J.P.]

^^^^^

i think he is just talking about the NY1 and NY2 springs

I don't think so.

No, I'm not talking about NY springs....those are what I use for increased reset power and reliability.

I'm talking about the "extra power" trigger springs.
The heavier the trigger spring weight, the lighter the trigger pull since in the Glock design the coil type springs actually help you pull the trigger.
So naturally a heavier spring will be pulling against the reset.
Like I said, it's a common issue.

This isn't to say that you cannot make one reliable with that setup but even a lot of competition shooters I know won't install them because of reset problems.
In a defensive gun, you should definitely steer clear of them!

Ask Matt Kartozian at CustomGlock Racing what he thinks about the issue...

[USMC06]

No, I'm not talking about NY springs....those are what I use for increased reset power and reliability.

I'm talking about the "extra power" trigger springs.
The heavier the trigger spring weight, the lighter the trigger pull since in the Glock design the coil type springs actually help you pull the trigger.
So naturally a heavier spring will be pulling against the reset.
Like I said, it's a common issue.

This isn't to say that you cannot make one reliable with that setup but even a lot of competition shooters I know won't install them because of reset problems.
In a defensive gun, you should definitely steer clear of them!

Ask Matt Kartozian at CustomGlock Racing what he thinks about the issue...

Thanks! I'll continue to experiment with the different trigger springs, but for now may use the NY-1 trigger spring for positive resets. Although the NY-1 makes it a little heavier than the coil spring, which presently allows the trigger set to be approx 2.5 pounds, it feels good.

[Slab]

ive never heard of it. maybe i can get a "heavier" spring and lighten my trigger pull even more. range use only of course.

[J.P.]

Thanks! I'll continue to experiment with the different trigger springs, but for now may use the NY-1 trigger spring for positive resets. Although the NY-1 makes it a little heavier than the coil spring, which presently allows the trigger set to be approx 2.5 pounds, it feels good.

Just between you and me......
you can "tune" the NY spring a bit for a lighter pull by removing a coil or so, and then reshaping the ends. Reduces weight by decreasing the resistance, but having some spring in there doesn't allow the plastic "leaf" to take a set that is too low to maintain any pressure on the triggerbar.

OR...
if it's a competition gun, you can remove the NY-1's coil spring altogether...the gun will still function and still have a harder reset than with the stock spring.(becuase it still won't have the stock spring working against it)
Notice I said: "competition gun"

[Slab]

well, JP i wish you would have shared that information with me. ;)
do you know how much weight is lifted without the spring in the NY1 at all?

[USMC06]

Just between you and me......
you can "tune" the NY spring a bit for a lighter pull by removing a coil or so, and then reshaping the ends. Reduces weight by decreasing the resistance, but having some spring in there doesn't allow the plastic "leaf" to take a set that is too low to maintain any pressure on the triggerbar.

OR...
if it's a competition gun, you can remove the NY-1's coil spring altogether...the gun will still function and still have a harder reset than with the stock spring.(becuase it still won't have the stock spring working against it)
Notice I said: "competition gun"

My reset issue is only with my comp G34 and the comp trigger kit. All of my other Glocks have an LWD 3.5# connector and a NY-1 spring with absolutely no issues. Again, this is my preferred set-up after lots of experimentation.

The only time I have heard of any problems with a NY trigger spring is when the attached inner spring was removed. Keeping the attached inner spring in is not an issue for me.

[J.P.]

The only time I have heard of any problems with a NY trigger spring is when the attached inner spring was removed. Keeping the attached inner spring in is not an issue for me.
I'm not going to say it has never caused anyone any problems but I shot an entire competition season with that configuration including a state title (Badlands) and never had any issues at all....none.

That said, if you'll notice I don't recommend it for carry. ;)

I don't set my gun up like that anymore (removing the NY's coil spring) because I now set everything up identical to my carry configuration.
I only mentioned it as another option to play with because I thought it made for a good competition trigger....especially in conjunction w/ a 3.5# connector and 4# FP spring.

[Arc Angel]

It may use an extra power trigger spring. Those are well known to cause reset problems, which is why some Glocksmiths will not use them.

:upeyes: Ha! Since when do most pistolsmiths actually know what they’re doing? I used to own a gunshop full of dumbass pistolsmith, ‘ideas du jour’! That often repeated remark is, nevertheless, the standard, 'party line'. Unlike many of you guys I can't say I've competed with any of these setups because I have not. What I have done is spend thousands of dollars of my own (increasingly scarce) money buying ammunition and teaching myself how to handle a Glock, accurately, at firing speeds which most people only dream about.

Perhaps it should be pointed out that the FP spring and the trigger spring act, more or less, in balance with each other. The only, 'problem' I can imagine with the heavier trigger spring is that - for one brief millisecond - it does, indeed, impede the FP spring's pretensioned reset. The point I would make is, 'SO WHAT!'

Unless you're in close and instinctively pulling the trigger, it takes some interval of time to reflex the muzzle back down, settle your sights, and take that final visual cue off the nestled front sight blade before firing. Now, it's true: Up close and personal I can ignore a lot of the visual cues and get away with making shots that in reality, 'muscle memory' - or, ‘proprioceptive reflex’ - is actually aiming for me! HERE, a lighter faster trigger reset might actually help. (Well, at least, your firing speed should increase.)

However, once you get out past 10-12 yards you're going to need some amount of time (no matter how brief) in order to visually aim the pistol as it fires in either short bursts or without interruption in your hands. The two brief delays in uninterrupted fire that I have been able to identify are (1) trigger reset AFTER the slide has returned to battery, and (2) the involuntary muscle reflex that (subconsciously?) applies downward pressure to the rising muzzle with the support hand.

Consequently, yes, I'm aware that a stronger (Wolff + power) trigger spring adds something to the reset cycle; but, at the same time, I use that exact time interval to meet other aiming requirements. Again, close into the target, it doesn't matter how your trigger resets; and, I can see where a slightly faster reset might help the scores of an extraordinarily talented shooter; however, as the distance to the target increases that millisecond pause in trigger reset is, actually, an advantage which an experienced marksman will use to place more rounds accurately onto the target. ;)

[USMC06]

:upeyes: Ha! Since when do most pistolsmiths actually know what they’re doing? I used to own a gunshop full of dumbass pistolsmith, ‘ideas du jour’! That often repeated remark is, nevertheless, the standard, 'party line'. Unlike many of you guys I can't say I've competed with any of these setups because I have not. What I have done is spend thousands of dollars of my own (increasingly scarce) money buying ammunition and teaching myself how to handle a Glock, accurately, at firing speeds which most people only dream about.

Perhaps it should be pointed out that the FP spring and the trigger spring act, more or less, in balance with each other. The only, 'problem' I can imagine with the heavier trigger spring is that - for one brief millisecond - it does, indeed, impede the FP spring's pretensioned reset. The point I would make is, 'SO WHAT!'

Unless you're in close and instinctively pulling the trigger, it takes some interval of time to reflex the muzzle back down, settle your sights, and take that final visual cue off the nestled front sight blade before firing. Now, it's true: Up close and personal I can ignore a lot of the visual cues and get away with making shots that in reality, 'muscle memory' - or, ‘proprioceptive reflex’ - is actually aiming for me! HERE, a lighter faster trigger reset might actually help. (Well, at least, your firing speed should increase.)

However, once you get out past 10-12 yards you're going to need some amount of time (no matter how brief) in order to visually aim the pistol as it fires in either short bursts or without interruption in your hands. The two brief delays in uninterrupted fire that I have been able to identify are (1) trigger reset AFTER the slide has returned to battery, and (2) the involuntary muscle reflex that (subconsciously?) applies downward pressure to the rising muzzle with the support hand.

Consequently, yes, I'm aware that a stronger (Wolff + power) trigger spring adds something to the reset cycle; but, at the same time, I use that exact time interval to meet other aiming requirements. Again, close into the target, it doesn't matter how your trigger resets; and, I can see where a slightly faster reset might help the scores of an extraordinarily talented shooter; however, as the distance to the target increases that millisecond pause in trigger reset is, actually, an advantage which an experienced marksman will use to place more rounds accurately onto the target. ;)

AA:

As always, I appreciate your educational posts based on your extensive experience. Thanks!

My reset problem with my comp trigger kit happens at the beginning and prior to the firing sequence (during the "load and make ready" stage). The NY-1 trigger spring has thus far cured the problem. My sister experienced the problem with the same comp trigger kit (which I recommended to her) during the pre and firing sequence at last year's Nationals. I need to do more research.

[randyc74]

I carry a Mod. 23 with a NY1 spring. I installed a LWD 3.5 Connector and like the setup.

My model 34 comp gun is set up the same way. I like the consistency between the 2 guns.

[pens-66]

you should carry bone stock or as close as you can for carry. prosecutors love to rip people up for modifying their weapons "with intent to kill"
its always better to keep things as stock as you can right down to making sure that if you reload you use factory ammo to carry with.

If you are using the Glock 3.5# connector and a NY1 trigger spring you are making the triiger pull heavier so I don't see a prsecutor trying to rip you for trying to be safer with your carry gun..And your still using factory parts:dunno:

[J.P.]

:upeyes: Ha! Since when do most pistolsmiths actually know what they’re doing? I used to own a gunshop full of dumbass pistolsmith, ‘ideas du jour’! That often repeated remark is, nevertheless, the standard, 'party line'. Unlike many of you guys I can't say I've competed with any of these setups because I have not. What I have done is spend thousands of dollars of my own (increasingly scarce) money buying ammunition and teaching myself how to handle a Glock, accurately, at firing speeds which most people only dream about.

Perhaps it should be pointed out that the FP spring and the trigger spring act, more or less, in balance with each other. The only, 'problem' I can imagine with the heavier trigger spring is that - for one brief millisecond - it does, indeed, impede the FP spring's pretensioned reset. The point I would make is, 'SO WHAT!'

Unless you're in close and instinctively pulling the trigger, it takes some interval of time to reflex the muzzle back down, settle your sights, and take that final visual cue off the nestled front sight blade before firing. Now, it's true: Up close and personal I can ignore a lot of the visual cues and get away with making shots that in reality, 'muscle memory' - or, ‘proprioceptive reflex’ - is actually aiming for me! HERE, a lighter faster trigger reset might actually help. (Well, at least, your firing speed should increase.)

However, once you get out past 10-12 yards you're going to need some amount of time (no matter how brief) in order to visually aim the pistol as it fires in either short bursts or without interruption in your hands. The two brief delays in uninterrupted fire that I have been able to identify are (1) trigger reset AFTER the slide has returned to battery, and (2) the involuntary muscle reflex that (subconsciously?) applies downward pressure to the rising muzzle with the support hand.

Consequently, yes, I'm aware that a stronger (Wolff + power) trigger spring adds something to the reset cycle; but, at the same time, I use that exact time interval to meet other aiming requirements. Again, close into the target, it doesn't matter how your trigger resets; and, I can see where a slightly faster reset might help the scores of an extraordinarily talented shooter; however, as the distance to the target increases that millisecond pause in trigger reset is, actually, an advantage which an experienced marksman will use to place more rounds accurately onto the target. ;)

I frankly don't know that you're trying to say, but by "reset problems" I didn't mean a slower reset, I mean zero reset or out of battery conditions.

[Arc Angel]

I frankly don't know that you're trying to say, but by "reset problems" I didn't mean a slower reset, I mean zero reset or out of battery conditions.

:freak: It's OK, J.P. I don't know what you're talking about either. Take two aspirin and read it again in the morning. I'll do the same. ;)

[J.P.]

Whatever.....yer mama.


:supergrin: