Who do you beleive? The mom, or the kids?

[NYC Drew]

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/nassau/ny-limole135841185sep13,0,6345575.story


Syosset mother charged with molesting her 3 children

BY ANN GIVENS
ann.givens@newsday.com September 13, 2008

In between car pools and karate classes, Nassau prosecutors say one Syosset mother was doing unspeakable things to her three children.

The 53-year-old woman, whose trial on child molestation charges began Friday in Nassau County Court, was molesting her youngest daughter with a Barbie doll, and forcing her older children to play tug-of-war naked and then have oral sex while she watched, prosecutors said. Newsday is not naming the woman to protect her children's identities.

"What [the woman] pretended to be at PTA meetings and at her daughter's cheerleading practice was not the same person that her children knew her to be," prosecutor Stephen Antignani told jurors.

But the woman's lawyer, Kevin Keating, of Garden City, said in his opening statement that his client is just a normal suburban mom - and that the real horror is her children's false allegations.

"This case will frighten you to your core," he told the jury. "It's a story of alienation, it's a story of suggestion ... it's the story of the fallacy of recovered memory."

The woman, who now lives in Seaford, has been charged with three counts of second-degree course of sexual conduct against a child and second-degree sexual abuse. The charges pertain to the abuse of her two younger children, a boy and a girl, but not to her eldest daughter, whose charges were beyond the statute of limitations. If she is convicted, Judge James McCormack could sentence her to a maximum of 7 to 21 years in prison.

The woman was convicted of the charges once before in 2006, but her conviction was overturned by the Appellate Division of the state Supreme Court on the grounds that her former lawyer made significant mistakes in defending her. The retrial has drawn high-level attention: District Attorney Kathleen Rice (http://www.newsday.com/topic/politics/kathleen-rice-PEPLT007448.topic) and several members of her senior staff attended opening arguments Friday.

The three children, who were between the ages of 6 and 11 when authorities say the abuse occurred from 1996 to 1999, began speaking of it only after they moved to their father's house in the wake of a divorce, both lawyers said.

Antignani said that's when the children felt safe enough to tell anyone. But Keating said the son, now 20, sought revenge on his mother for the divorce, and the youngest daughter, now 17, was persuaded to remember nonexistent abuse.

[cjlandry]

I need a third choice. Decision withheld pending evidence.

[Generalcarry]

I voted 1st without reading the selection. Remove 1 mom vote.

[Annoyedgrunt]

Kind of hard to say, sounds like She said/they said. Hold on, I got a coin around here somewhere...

[Dragoon44]

I thought most courts had rejected "suppressed memory" as evidence by now.

[troy96]

I thought most courts had rejected "suppressed memory" as evidence by now.

The story doesnt say anything about "suppressed memory".

[cjlandry]

The story doesnt say anything about "suppressed memory".

"...the youngest daughter, now 17, was persuaded to remember nonexistent abuse."

There it is.

[jnojr]

Likely that, if this isn't true, the kids aren't "lying"... they've been brainwashed, and probably believe what they're saying.

[troy96]

"...the youngest daughter, now 17, was persuaded to remember nonexistent abuse."

There it is.

A charge put forth by the defendants lawyer...be serious.

But the woman's lawyer, Kevin Keating, of Garden City,

But Keating said the son, now 20, sought revenge on his mother for the divorce, and the youngest daughter, now 17, was persuaded to remember nonexistent abuse.

[intheburbs]

Not gonna touch this one.....

[mike7465]

Three siblings will not agree on grass being green, or water being wet.
Two girls and a boy agreeing on anything. Please.

The OP has hit the nail on the head. These things are just tragedies..

[cjlandry]

A charge put forth by the defendants lawyer...be serious.

Understood.

Dragoon was merely stating that such "evidence" was usually rejected, and that it could be a point of contention.

I don't think any of us could make any reasonable decision with nothing more than this story.

I'm sure, however, that some could pass judgment based on whether the defendant or the complainants were hot or not.

:whistling:

[Cody Jarrett]

Let's not forget the McMartin trial where innocent day-care providers went to jail based on kids repressed memories of satanic ritual sexual abuse. Later in life as adults they recanted saying it never occurred.

http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume1/j1_2_7.htm

[craig_o]

Let's not forget the McMartin trial where innocent day-care providers went to jail based on kids repressed memories of satanic ritual sexual abuse. Later in life as adults they recanted saying it never occurred.

http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume1/j1_2_7.htm

I hear ya, but this isn't repressed memories.

Victims of sexual abuse as children routinely don't speak up until later, ESPECIALLY when we're talking about a parent.

[jtmac]

I've seen people "remember" or "forget" things based on their own emotional convenience. Entirely possible.

But probable? Sorry, I can't possibly say.

[cjlandry]

I hear ya, but this isn't repressed memories.

Victims of sexual abuse as children routinely don't speak up until later, ESPECIALLY when we're talking about a parent.

Yeah. And I'm sure it's unheard of for a 17 year old woman to be convinced to "remember" something that didn't happen.

[Dragoon44]

"suppressed memories was very fashionable years ago, even celebrities were joining in recounting suppressed memories of abuse.

Once it came ot light how these sessions that revealed these "memories" were conducted most courts rejected them as legitimate evidence. the process is highly leading and openly suggestive that the subject remember abuse.

[craig_o]

Yeah. And I'm sure it's unheard of for a 17 year old woman to be convinced to "remember" something that didn't happen.

Sounded like all three kids were telling the same story, but the oldest couldn't testify due to statue of limitations.

I'm not saying cancel the trial and burn her at the stake; I am saying it sounds legitimate on the face of it.

This really doesn't sound like one of those situations where it happens 27 years later and they're trying to get her money.

Without a doubt, the single most important piece of info is "why now?"

[deadday]

I'll abstain at this point....I don't see how there could possibly be enough evidence either way given the article....'course what's left out could probably fill a library...If I had to make a decision based soley on that article, I'd say she is innocent, having not been proven guilty.




drew

[deadday]

Sounded like all three kids were telling the same story, but the oldest couldn't testify due to statue of limitations.


I don't know about NY, but in TX the SoL on SA of a minor is a good number of years after the child's 18 b-day, can't remember the exact number and too lazy to look it up...






drew

[troy96]

I'll abstain at this point....I don't see how there could possibly be enough evidence either way given the article....'course what's left out could probably fill a library...If I had to make a decision based soley on that article, I'd say she is innocent, having not been proven guilty.




drew

The woman was convicted of the charges once before in 2006, but her conviction was overturned by the Appellate Division of the state Supreme Court on the grounds that her former lawyer made significant mistakes in defending her.

:dunno: 12 people thought guilty.

[deadday]

:dunno: 12 people thought guilty.

And those 12 people didn't make their decision based on the article above, as I clearly stated that I was....:dunno:...oh, and those 12 people also had their decision overturned...




drew

[Mnukedude]

With the info I have right now, I will withhold judgement. I have seen false allegations of sexual abuse leveled on people as revenge before. I personally know someone who has done it to two family members so far, three if you include all forms of abuse outside of sexual (the alleged child being abused was a figment of the accuser's imagination)

One thing is clear, and that is no matter who is guilty of what, this group coud keep ten psychologists busy for years.

[deadday]

With the info I have right now, I will withhold judgement. I have seen false allegations of sexual abuse leveled on people as revenge before. I personally know someone who has done it to two family members so far, three if you include all forms of abuse outside of sexual (the alleged child being abused was a figment of the accuser's imagination)

One thing is clear, and that is no matter who is guilty of what, this group coud keep ten psychologists busy for years.

10? Think you left off a couple zeros there....:whistling:




drew

[troy96]

The poll question is ass backwards from the thread title.

Poll-Who is lying the mom, or the kids?

Thread-Who do you beleive? The mom, or the kids?

With 13 votes the poll has to be thrown out...the mother gets off again.

[Dennis in MA]

Ask Tooky, Violet and Cheryl Amirault.

I hate child molesters. But this crap is damn impossible to prove sometimes.

A barbie-doll? Come on.

[NYC Drew]

The poll question is ass backwards from the thread title.

Poll-Who is lying the mom, or the kids?

Thread-Who do you beleive? The mom, or the kids?

With 13 votes the poll has to be thrown out...the mother gets off again.

:)

But you see, you are confusing the thread title with the poll question. :supergrin:

There are two distinct things being asked here.

1. If you find one party over the other (more) believable: Who do you believe

and

2. Which of the two parties do you think is lying?

So, you see, it is entirely possible to believe a liar! The two things are not mutually exclusive.


.....I never said I would post easy topics. :cool:


'Drew

[cjlandry]

With the info I have right now, I will withhold judgement. I have seen false allegations of sexual abuse leveled on people as revenge before. I personally know someone who has done it to two family members so far, three if you include all forms of abuse outside of sexual (the alleged child being abused was a figment of the accuser's imagination)

One thing is clear, and that is no matter who is guilty of what, this group coud keep ten psychologists busy for years.

It happened to my wife's cousin. The boy wasn't all there before, and the whole situation really screwed him up. He was on house arrest for quite some time, complete with an ankle bracelet and proximity monitor.

Another cousin pressed charges for molesting her daughter. Her daughter had the perfect story, and apparently didn't deviate from it under repeated questioning.

She later publicly admitted that her mother gave her the story and told her to tell it that way, and the young man was released, charges reversed, etc. But he still has the arrest on his record, and he'll never get that part of his life back.