View Full Version : Glock 21 Vs 21sf
pistolman1974
09-14-2008, 09:48
I'm considering buying a g21.
What are the advantages and dis-advantages of each variant?
How rare is the picatinny rail?
Is there an advantage to the picatinny rail vs the regular glock rail? Is there any value added?
Does the 21sf point differently than the g21?
The 21SF has a shorter reach to the trigger due to the grip being reduced. For many it feels much better. Feel both before you buy and you will most likely go with the SF.
The regular glock rail will fit more holsters. I don't see an advantage over the picatinny rail and don't feel value is added.
The 21SF will point better if it fits your hand better other than that it is the same.
I have a classic G21 (odd ring to it...CLASSIC!) and I have spent PLENTY of time, recently, tossing lead down range with an SF. I have shot dozens of glocks over the years, 100's of guns, and I own a dozen or so of my own Glocks.
My G21 is my "zombie" / HD gun. It's fitted out with hi-cap mag (19rounds/.45!) TFO night sights, an INSIGHT laser/white light combo, and ALL STOCK internal parts except for a heavier trigger spring. I have thousands of trouble free accurate rounds thru this gun. It's fat, fits MY hand well, and it's loaded weight settles nicely into my hand and grip style. I am able to deal with the THUMP of the .45 recoil, and I find the gun comes back down on target as quick as my G19. I have carried the G21 concealed for a bit, in the winter with appropriate clothing, and it's simply a bit big for EDC, however I am sure I could if I had to...I carried a 1911 for YEARS.
The alternate rail is of no use to me, and I think it's simply a matter of opinion and available accessories. Everything else about the SF is perfect Glock to me EXCEPT the grip size...I just think that the "OG" G21 works the recoil of hotter loads and faster shooting better, and I am more comfy with the fatter grip. The 21SF did conceal a bit easier, but maybe it's just me. Mag's aren't swappable with 21 / 30 either. More loot on mags.
I do believe that the G30SF will end up being one of the BEST carry/conceal handguns available. Caliber, size, and reliability = TOP NOTCH.
If I had to do it again, I would go with the G21 / G30 from the CLASSIC line, hands down. the grip is best for my meaty hands.
I had a 21; bought a 21SF to replace it because it fits my hand better.
I opted to stick with the Glock rail and the non-ambi mag release.
The glock rail because, as mentioned, it fits my old holsters and I don't see an advantage of the larger PIC rail anyway.
The non-ambi mag release because then my older 21 mags work in my new SF. If I'd have had zero older 21 mags, I'd have still gotten the non-ambi because a) I'm right handed, and b) older mags will still work in it.
YMMV.
I'm looking forward to getting a 30SF to "complete the package".
Arc Angel
09-14-2008, 12:50
The Picatinny rail is a, 'vestigial organ' left over from the canceled government pistol trials. In my opinion Glock ought to drop it from the model lineup. Value added? Hardly!
Hold each pistol. Can you release the magazine catch without shifting your grip? Does the BOTTOM of your trigger finger's distal joint extend past the face of the trigger? If so, the pistol fits. ;)
tampashooters
09-14-2008, 13:28
The 21 and 21sf are the same, and should be priced the same. The small difference in the grip makes no difference in price or performance (unless you have girlie hands). I prefer the 21 in OD of course. The Pic rail is a waste of space, but it looks cool.
The SF models are the best scam going right now. The difference people imagine, is all in their heads...
The 21 and 21sf are the same, and should be priced the same. The small difference in the grip makes no difference in price or performance (unless you have girlie hands). I prefer the 21 in OD of course. The Pic rail is a waste of space, but it looks cool.
The SF models are the best scam going right now. The difference people imagine, is all in their heads...
I would beg to differ on that...
First off, my SF didn't cost more than a standard 21.
Secondly, you don't need "girlie hands" to appreciate a smaller grip. Neither do you worry too much about others phallic deficiencies that make them want to compare sizes of everything with everyone else. Bigger ain't always better; often, it's just bigger.
Finally, the difference people REALIZE, not imagine, is in their hands, not their heads. I've had - and shot - both extensively. I prefer the grip of the SF.
YMMV.
tampashooters
09-14-2008, 13:40
I would beg to differ on that...
First off, my SF didn't cost more than a standard 21.
Secondly, you don't need "girlie hands" to appreciate a smaller grip. Neither do you worry too much about others phallic deficiencies that make them want to compare sizes of everything with everyone else. Bigger ain't always better; often, it's just bigger.
Finally, the difference people REALIZE, not imagine, is in their hands, not their heads. I've had - and shot - both extensively. I prefer the grip of the SF.
YMMV.
I have owned the 30sf and the 21sf too, and it is all in your head. I tried and tried to justify it too, but in the end, it is moot. I will stand by that til the cows come home. The 21sf doesn't cost more, but some people are paying a premium for it, same as the 30sf.
The 21 and 21sf are the same, and should be priced the same. The small difference in the grip makes no difference in price or performance (unless you have girlie hands). I prefer the 21 in OD of course. The Pic rail is a waste of space, but it looks cool.
The SF models are the best scam going right now. The difference people imagine, is all in their heads...
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u206/xlckjdlhc/macho-man-randy-savage.jpg
When I bough my 21SF i when to a store and compared the 21 to the 21SF. I held both and fired both. I could feel i big difference in the way the 21 fit my hand than the 21. It felt much more natural and I could get a better grip. Same thing with the 30 and 30SF although the difference is less pronounced.
The trigger pull is heavier on the SF's that I have handled in gun stores. I have read other posts indicating similar experiences by other shooters.
The trigger housing is unique for SF models... because the top rear of the grip was moved forward in the area where the web of the hand fits. This evidently tilts the connector back a few degrees - making a 5# connector act a little more like the 8# type in non-SF guns (just not as much).
I'm considering buying a g21.
What are the advantages and dis-advantages of each variant?
How rare is the picatinny rail?
Is there an advantage to the picatinny rail vs the regular glock rail? Is there any value added?
Does the 21sf point differently than the g21?
Same thing as I wrote in answer to your same question on "The Firing Line"
Having had both the G21 and the G21 SF, I can say that the SF fits my hand a lot better. You don't really notice the difference much until you spend some time handling and shooting both side by side.
Before I bought my SF, I handled one with the rail, but it felt different and pointed different for me. I didn't want to re-learn the pointing characteristics just because of that cheese grater out front (aka Picatinny rail), so I got one without it.
I don't have any weapon attachments, such as lasers, flashlights, toasters, waffle irons, or whatever else is available now to clamp onto the front of your gun, so the SF fits my regular G21 holsters just fine.
I also got mine without the ambidextrous magazine release, so now it's just like any other Glock, and that's a very good thing.
I have owned the 30sf and the 21sf too, and it is all in your head. I tried and tried to justify it too, but in the end, it is moot. I will stand by that til the cows come home. The 21sf doesn't cost more, but some people are paying a premium for it, same as the 30sf.
You do that... stand by your impression of the difference. However, since there is a physical difference, each user will either like it more, like it less, or feel no different. But to say there is NO difference is to deny what can easily be measured.
IN MY HAND, the SF feels better than the 21. Many who don't have large hands have reported the same. I have fired both extensively; I sold the 21 and kept the SF.
Don't notice a difference? Fine... say that. Just don't say there ISN'T one, or worse that only "girlie men" can appreciate it.
tampashooters
09-14-2008, 16:07
You do that... stand by your impression of the difference. However, since there is a physical difference, each user will either like it more, like it less, or feel no different. But to say there is NO difference is to deny what can easily be measured.
IN MY HAND, the SF feels better than the 21. Many who don't have large hands have reported the same. I have fired both extensively; I sold the 21 and kept the SF.
Don't notice a difference? Fine... say that. Just don't say there ISN'T one, or worse that only "girlie men" can appreciate it.
Did I ever say there was no difference? Uh, NO.... Re-read then post smartly.
Did I ever say there was no difference? Uh, NO.... Re-read then post smartly.
Sounded like it to me...
The 21 and 21sf are the same, and should be priced the same. The small difference in the grip makes no difference in price or performance (unless you have girlie hands). I prefer the 21 in OD of course. The Pic rail is a waste of space, but it looks cool.
The SF models are the best scam going right now. The difference people imagine, is all in their heads...
Did I ever say there was no difference? Uh, NO.... Re-read then post smartly.
The 21 and 21sf are the same, and should be priced the same. The small difference in the grip makes no difference in price or performance (unless you have girlie hands). I prefer the 21 in OD of course. The Pic rail is a waste of space, but it looks cool.
The SF models are the best scam going right now. The difference people imagine, is all in their heads...
Re-read... and posted, smartly.
tampashooters
09-14-2008, 16:24
Sounded like it to me...
You were wrong then. Jeez, this isn't the presidential election is it? :crying:
Read the whole paragraph, and understand it. Taking it out of context is not smart...
Is this really bothering you that much?
You were wrong then. Jeez, this isn't the presidential election is it? :crying:
Read the whole paragraph, and understand it. Taking it out of context is not smart...
Is this really bothering you that much?
This isn't the Presidential election, but you waffle like it is.
IN MY HAND, the SF feels better than the 21. Many who don't have large hands have reported the same. I have fired both extensively; I sold the 21 and kept the SF.
I have relatively large hands and while I could accommodate the regular 21, the reduced size of the SF was much more to my liking. I bought a 17 over a 19 because I preferred the full grip of the 17.
Interestingly, I read where someone else preferred the larger 21 grip because they had a minor athritic condition in their shooting hand.
Glock will expand their market for the G21 with the SF model because I know a couple of people who just couldn't come to grips with the regular pistol.
Being the girlie man that I am, I can pretty much attest to the fact that the SF is different from the regular design. The SF allowed me to actually reach thentrigger and be able maintain a comfortable grip on the gun. The SF is the only reason I switched to a big bore Glock.
The pic rail is pretty useless and makes it more difficult to find holsters. Given the availability of accessories for the original Glock rail and the cancellation of the DoD contract it's funny that Glock is still selling them. If I were looking for one I'd go with the standard rail.
The trigger on my unit stunk to high hell. It was well over 8# out of the box. A little TLC and it was workable though.
Price wise they shouldn't be any different, but YMMV depending on the dealer.
GlockerMike
09-14-2008, 17:56
From another girlie-man I reckon........... I have small hands and got the G21SF without ever trying the regular 21. It fits VERY well and I think the pic rail looks really cool. It's my HD choice at the moment, so not too worried about a holster, although I've seen a few that will fit it. I gave $537 shipped from Bud's Gun Shop (highly recommended), don't know if that's a premium or not.
More pics in my gallery (http://www.americasforumz.com/gallery/index.php) do a search for glock.
DoubleWide
09-14-2008, 18:04
I didn't think I was a girlie-man because I liked the 21SF grip over 21, but then I realized I liked using a bat instead of a 2x4 for baseball.
Damn my girlie-man hands. Damn them.
I feel quite inadequate after this discussion - I'm going to tape a broom handle to the grip of my 21SF.
It is such a subjective thing though, I think that my own preference is towards a grip that is a little too large because I find grips that are too small the most uncomfortable to shoot.
:rofl:
Thanks to fellow "girlie men". I was beginning to think I was the only one...
gary newport
09-15-2008, 17:52
The 21 and 21sf are the same, and should be priced the same. The small difference in the grip makes no difference in price or performance (unless you have girlie hands). I prefer the 21 in OD of course. The Pic rail is a waste of space, but it looks cool.
The SF models are the best scam going right now. The difference people imagine, is all in their heads...
Actually, the differece is real. Whether it matters or not depends entirely on the individual. :tongueout:
gary newport
09-15-2008, 17:53
The 21 and 21sf are the same, and should be priced the same. The small difference in the grip makes no difference in price or performance (unless you have girlie hands). I prefer the 21 in OD of course. The Pic rail is a waste of space, but it looks cool.
The SF models are the best scam going right now. The difference people imagine, is all in their heads...
Actually, the difference is real. Whether it matters or not depends entirely on the individual. :tongueout:
Arc Angel
09-15-2008, 18:08
:freak: You know, somebody really should sticky this thread. (It's just loaded with lots and lots of really useful information.)
One question: Is the trigger pull actually greater on the G-21SF? Without running to the gunshop and abusing the nice man's guns, I'd like to know the unvarnished truth about this. ;)
gary newport
09-15-2008, 18:22
:freak: You know, somebody really should sticky this thread. (It's just loaded with lots and lots of really useful information.)
One question: Is the trigger pull actually greater on the G-21SF? Without running to the gunshop and abusing the nice man's guns, I'd like to know the unvarnished truth about this. ;)
I didn't notice any difference greater than sample variation would account for. However, my Glocks don't have original trigger pulls for long anyway!
glock10mmaz
09-15-2008, 18:22
I have 4 glock 21 and 2 glock sf(short frame). Love them all... 21 sf has a little bit smalled frame. measure the space between your thumb and middle finger and it's maybe 1/8 of an inch... but that difference can make a lot of difference to some shooters to handle a big bore calibre.
i have all my glocks set up with 6 inch KKM barrels and push 230 remington FMJ with 10.5 grain of blue dot at over 1120 fps!!! with my arredondo extensions it gives me 19 rounds and makes it a real bad day for the bad guys!
i have over 55 k rounds thru one of my G21! enjoy them... there is no better
45!
glock10mmaz
09-15-2008, 18:27
I didn't notice any difference greater than sample variation would account for. However, my Glocks don't have original trigger pulls for long anyway!
i have 4 glock 21 and 2 glock 21 sf and did not notice any difference in trigger pull... however all my triggers are 2 1/5 to 3 lbs after i replaced disconnect, trigger spring, firing pin spring and polish up bottom of firing pin.
:freak: You know, somebody really should sticky this thread. (It's just loaded with lots and lots of really useful information.)
One question: Is the trigger pull actually greater on the G-21SF? Without running to the gunshop and abusing the nice man's guns, I'd like to know the unvarnished truth about this. ;)
Between my 21 and my 21SF, the 21 was heavier due to a NY trigger being installed.
Between my 21SF and my 23 or my 19, I'd say if it's heavier, it's just barely so. I actually prefer the 21SF trigger to the 23 or the 19 - smooth as butta'.
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