View Full Version : What the heck is our fearless leader doing ???
itisbruno
09-24-2008, 20:09
Pass the bailout or else all will fail??
Ok everybody... PANIC
Comrade Bush is gonna make the stock market crumble tomorrow with all this doom and gloom
Viva la bushh aiyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
mike7465
09-24-2008, 20:16
That was a fun speach. Had almost no basis in reality, but a nice speach.
Nuke DC now, then maybe the rest of America can get back to work.
Glock 19 God
09-24-2008, 20:17
That is the best I have ever heard Bush speak. He didn't mess up a single time, besides the content of the speech....
jhoagland
09-24-2008, 20:18
He is leading fearlessly....
USMCsilver
09-24-2008, 20:18
Simply put, congress doesn't want to give away the 700b in one chunk. Bernenke says it's kinda necessary, but...
I would like to see 700b+. Make my stock grow. Fine with me!
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who likes our President.
Glock 19 God
09-24-2008, 20:19
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who likes our President.
Because you are.....?
That is the best I have ever heard Bush speak. He didn't mess up a single time, besides the content of the speech....
You can bet his coaches worked extra-hard on this particular speech.
It was critical that he come across as tough and in-control, else the mood tomorrow on Wall Street would be even worse...
TheeBadOne
09-24-2008, 20:21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0
itisbruno
09-24-2008, 20:24
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who likes our President.
I don't necessarily dislike him Norman ... somehow I just don't think this cunning plan has been carefully thought through.
I spent more time deciding on much smaller investments than the one they are mulling over.
There is no rush, and I think a careful examination of pros and cons of the plan are in order.
That is all I have to say about that, cause I'm not in a Holiday Inn Express tonite.
:supergrin:
I don't necessarily dislike him Norman ... somehow I just don't think this cunning plan has been carefully thought through.
I spent more time deciding on much smaller investments than the one they are mulling over.
There is no rush, and I think a careful examination of pros and cons of the plan are in order.
That is all I have to say about that, cause I'm not in a Holiday Inn Express tonite.
:supergrin:
Well this disaster has been in the making all year.... they should have had a plan a long time ago other than giving everyone a $600 check.
I'm sorry but everything this President does turns to ****. The guy is just one big cluster ****. I don't care for McCain or Obama but either one should have a very difficult time making this country and worse than it has been the last 7 years.
john_glock_mi
09-24-2008, 20:31
And explain to me again how it's Bush's fault that deadbeats don't pay their mortgage???
..........." we MUST protect the multi-multi-multi millionaires' children...."
............" we MUST delay the collapse of this system, to give these CEO's more time to finish raping their companies, thus protecting the children....."
Oh yeah, we MUST pas this bill to ensure the stock market survives.....IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN ( billionaires' children, dammitt ! ! )
ZAP ! Ime out :cool:
PeterJasonMN
09-24-2008, 20:35
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0
When that pans to his wife I just want to puke. We all called Hillary evil, but that shrew makes HRC look like Florence Nightingale.
And explain to me again how it's Bush's fault that deadbeats don't pay their mortgage???
As soon as you explain to me why we the tax payers should spend $700billion MORE to bail out these companies who gave out these stupid loans to begin with.
I really can't wait to see how high McCain or Obama has to raise our taxes in the coming years... its gonna be insane.... with the money pit that is Iraq, the bailouts, the increased spending on social programs and decreased tax revenue during the Bush years we are gonna be giving our left and right nut to the tax man for years to come.
Thank you Comrade Bush.
itisbruno
09-24-2008, 20:35
And explain to me again how it's Bush's fault that deadbeats don't pay their mortgage???
Never did I say it was Bush's fault, my fear is the cure may be worse than the disease.
All I'm saying is the plan seems to have been slapped together in a back room over the weekend, without any real analysis being done of the possible ramifications.
I have yet to hear a single respected economist endorse the plan.
I'm not assigning blame, just looking for a well thought through solution.
:thumbsup:
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who likes our President.
Norman,
My attitude about the President is the same as my attitude toward the candidates competing to replace him, and the same with regard to every elected official...
Do they obey their oath of office sworn to "uphold, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States"?
I'm a person often accused of having a very absolute attitude about many things, and this is one of them. Either they obey ALL of the document, or else I cannot trust them.
They do not, none of them. None in our lifetime has done so.
To me this transcends all politics, all other aspects of governance, and party allegiance.
Article 1, Section 10:
"No State shall ... make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts..."
It is my very firm belief that the present economic chaos would not, could not ever have happened if we made holders of high office and local office responsible for obeying Article 1 Section 10.
It's still the law of the land. If we believe it to be somehow irrelevant today, then we should amend the document. The Constitution is government's contract with the people. If we allow them through tacit acceptance to ignore the parts that are not convenient then we DESERVE whatever we get, including and especially the present economic mess.
The President and Congress are not the government, they are the current elected ADMINISTRATORS of the the government.
Governing according to the contract to which they agreed upon entering office is their only responsibility.
"In the end, people always end up with the kind of government they deserve"
-Will Rodgers
And explain to me again how it's Bush's fault that deadbeats don't pay their mortgage???
Holy cow, man. The problem is deeper, far deeper than the mortgage fiasco.
The mortgage industry is just the place where the problem became clearly evident.
itisbruno
09-24-2008, 20:44
Atlas, your posts are always well thought through,. thanks.
:thumbsup:
john_glock_mi
09-24-2008, 20:45
OK so where is the Democratic plan? Obama? Hello anyone?
Bush is the only one to propose at least SOMETHING.
You hate mongers would rather nothing be done just because Bush is the one to propose a plan. You people that would enjoy watching the econoney go in the tank are complete morons just so you can point your finger at Bush and spew more of your hatred.
I'm sure if Obama was actually intelligent enough to propose something you would be slobbering all over it with glowing love.
http://glocktalk.com/gallery/data/529/fail.jpg
...You hate mongers would rather nothing be done just because Bush is the one to propose a plan. You people that would enjoy watching the econoney go in the tank are complete morons just so you can point your finger at Bush and spew more of your hatred.
I'm sure if Obama was actually intelligent enough to propose something you would be slobbering all over it with glowing love.
I trust Barack Obama about as far as I could throw an elephant.
Can't say that I feel much better about Senator McCain....
I will say though that IF I believed that Senator Obama would obey, absolutely, the Constitution I would contribute to his campaign, organize others to do so,
and I would be the first man in America to show up at the polls to vote for him. Twice.
I've already seen and experienced President Bush's fidelity to the Constitution.... FAIL!
I don't hate him, I just don't care about him one way or the other... why should I?
His only relationship to me is as pertains to his sworn duty to perform as an administrator of government according to the contract.
He has not demonstrated to me that he has much intention to do so.
OK so where is the Democratic plan? Obama? Hello anyone?
Bush is the only one to propose at least SOMETHING.
You hate mongers would rather nothing be done just because Bush is the one to propose a plan. You people that would enjoy watching the econoney go in the tank are complete morons just so you can point your finger at Bush and spew more of your hatred.
I'm sure if Obama was actually intelligent enough to propose something you would be slobbering all over it with glowing love.
I guess you missed it, but Obama and McCain have issued a joint statement, as they fundamentally agree on the key factors that any bailout plan should have.
1. Oversight is needed.
2. The taxpayers must be protected.
3. No Wall Street CEOs should prosper from this.
4. Homeowners need to be bailed out too.
5. No earmarks attached to the bailout legislation.
The statement they released:
"The American people are facing a moment of economic crisis. No matter how this began, we all have a responsibility to work through it and restore confidence in our economy. The jobs, savings, and prosperity of the American people are at stake.
Now is a time to come together - Democrats and Republicans - in a spirit of cooperation for the sake of the American people. The plan that has been submitted to Congress by the Bush Administration is flawed, but the effort to protect the American economy must not fail.
This is a time to rise above politics for the good of the country. We cannot risk an economic catastrophe. Now is our chance to come together to prove that Washington is once again capable of leading this country."
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/24/obama_and_mccain_issue_joint_s.html
OK so where is the Democratic plan? Obama? Hello anyone?
Bush is the only one to propose at least SOMETHING.
You hate mongers would rather nothing be done just because Bush is the one to propose a plan. You people that would enjoy watching the econoney go in the tank are complete morons just so you can point your finger at Bush and spew more of your hatred.
I'm sure if Obama was actually intelligent enough to propose something you would be slobbering all over it with glowing love.
Sorry this is the grown up world not kindergarten. Doing something isn't always better than doing nothing. Bailing out irresponsible companies and their executives who will come out of this with millions of dollars while you and I foot the bill is not much of a plan. Heck pretty soon the government will own the mortgage banking industry, the American car manufacturers, airlines, utilities, etc. It could be the communist states of america. Yep its a good thing Bush has a plan.
And, let's give credit where credit is due. This is Paulson's plan we are talking about, not Bush's. Bush doesn't have a plan. Some say he doesn't even have a clue, but that is fodder for another thread.
jhoagland
09-24-2008, 21:01
The gooberment should be run just like a house hold. Including someone that can lower the boom on your ass when you **** up. Pay the bills or the lights get turned off. Thirty day notice and everything.
Deuce_27
09-24-2008, 21:07
Holy cow, man. The problem is deeper, far deeper than the mortgage fiasco.
The mortgage industry is just the place where the problem became clearly evident.
Bingo!!
The sub prime mess is just the scapegoat. The debt based money system corrupted by the FED and Wall Street is the problem.
But hey, Washington would rather blame the people than man up and call it like it is.
Washington has to lie because if they told the truth, there would be blood in the streets by sunrise.
Economic Armageddon, here we come!!
How do I download that youtube piece before they remove it for "Hate Speech"
They've ALREADY disabled the comments!
itisbruno
09-24-2008, 21:17
OK so where is the Democratic plan? Obama? Hello anyone?
Bush is the only one to propose at least SOMETHING.
You hate mongers would rather nothing be done just because Bush is the one to propose a plan. You people that would enjoy watching the econoney go in the tank are complete morons just so you can point your finger at Bush and spew more of your hatred.
I'm sure if Obama was actually intelligent enough to propose something you would be slobbering all over it with glowing love.
If I am not mistaken this is Secretary Paulson and Chairman Berneake's plan, Bush has just bought off on it.
I have yet to hear an opposing viewpoint, nor an enforcement of this plan by any credible source.
We do not need to rush into this IMHO.
What I want to know is how we are going to pay for this. I know what we are paying for, I just want to know how the hell we are paying for it. When is some politician going to have the balls to say that we are going to have to raise taxes? That is the reality here. We can't keep deficit spending forever. At some point, we have to pay the tab.
What I want to know is how we are going to pay for this. I know what we are paying for, I just want to know how the hell we are paying for it. When is some politician going to have the balls to say that we are going to have to raise taxes? That is the reality here. We can't keep deficit spending forever. At some point, we have to pay the tab.
It is not possible to "pay for it". You cannot pay debt with debt. Using a debt-backed currency like the Federal Reserve Note, you can only discharge debt.
This new tidal-wave of debt being heaped upon us will be discharged by the only means possible.... we'll print more notes!
Easy, really.
It is not possible to "pay for it". You cannot pay debt with debt. Using a debt-backed currency like the Federal Reserve Note, you can only discharge debt.
This new tidal-wave of debt being heaped upon us will be discharged by the only means possible.... we'll print more notes!
Easy, really.
Yep. Just another floor in the house of cards. Too bad that all of this is only delaying the inevitable collapse.
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who likes our President.
No, there's at least 3 of you including his wife :wavey:
It is not possible to "pay for it". You cannot pay debt with debt. Using a debt-backed currency like the Federal Reserve Note, you can only discharge debt.
This new tidal-wave of debt being heaped upon us will be discharged by the only means possible.... we'll print more notes!
Easy, really.
bingo . they are oiling the money making machines as we speak .
No, there's at least 3 of you including his wife :wavey:
:rofl::rofl::rofl: true
No Frills McGee
09-24-2008, 21:39
WHATS BUSH DOIN'?
http://www.lifeisajoke.com/Bush/can_whoop_ass.jpg
HES PUTTIN THE WHOOP ASS ON THE ECONOMY BOIIIII
where are all the bush supporters who used to post here ?? lol
http://glocktalk.com/gallery/data/529/1984.jpg
No Frills McGee
09-24-2008, 21:46
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/Z/C/bush_dance4.gif http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/h/M/bush_dance3.gif
As soon as you explain to me why we the tax payers should spend $700billion MORE to bail out these companies who gave out these stupid loans to begin with.
This whole thing is just a heaping huge crap sandwich for the American taxpayer, but here is why it has to happen (and quickly). These companies that originated, repackaged, rated and resold these toxic waste securities are the same companies that industry goes to finance their daily operations. The problem is that these companies have a HUGE amount of capital tied up in this toxic waste and now that everyone knows it's toxic, no one is willing to buy it from them. Basically, they are just stuck holding it.
That leaves them with all their cash tied up in insoluble assets and nothing to lend to industry when they come and ask for it. So industry can't get the loans they need to carry out normal operations (large corporations routinely take out short term loans to cover normal operating costs as it can often be more profitable than letting cash sit idle in low-yield accounts). Industry's reaction to this inability to acquire funds will be to suddenly begin hoarding cash by making drastic cuts in operations. They will suspend or cancel new projects and purchases. This in turn will affect the revenue of the companies that would have sold them that good or service. Then those companies will be forced to cut back as well and so on and so forth as it ripples through the economy.
Thing is, this ripple effect will be moving through the economy at breakneck speed. It will reach the lowest levels (the taxpayer themselves) in a time frame of weeks, not months or years as with a normal correction. By approving this $700 billion and allowing the Treasury to buy these assets, we allow the original companies to free up capital that they can then loan to industry thereby avoiding the economic lock-up described above. If it can be avoided the economic damage will not be nearly as bad. If it can't then the economy will come to a complete screeching halt and each week that passes will cost real people their jobs and homes. So the bottom line is that the American taxpayer has to do this in order to preserve their livelihood.
Many good points have been raised in this thread about who's at fault and if there is a better way out of this mess, but the thing is we have no time to redesign the system from scratch. We need the system we have in place today to function correctly and I mean RFN or the damage will be irreparable. After we get past this crisis, then we can spend years in Congressional inquiries trying to figure at who to send to jail and how to reform the system, but without immediate action to avoid an economic meltdown those questions will be moot because people will be to busy trying to figure out how to buy food and stay warm to care.
Geko45,
I won't comment on the immediate necessity of this "plan" nor the assumed efficacy, but I must say that what you described here illustrates in very high relief that fact that our entire once-powerful economy is now totally dependent upon debt. Any thinking person must ask then, "why"?
Geko45,
I won't comment on the immediate necessity of this "plan" nor the assumed efficacy, but I must say that what you described here illustrates in very high relief that fact that our entire once-powerful economy is now totally dependent upon debt. Any thinking person must ask then, "why"?
Exactly right, and I'd also like to point out that there have been numerous opportunities over the past few years to avoid this inevitable situation and they have been consistently and routinely passed over by those that should have been looking out for our (the taxpayer's) best interests. Those opportunities are simply lost forever. We now stand at the precipice and this package represents our very last chance to avoid economic chaos like has not been seen in this country for several generations. Like I said, it's just a huge crap sandwich, but there are no other options remaining (except for the abyss itself). The bill will be passed because it has to be and despite all the political posturing going on, each and every one of those people on Capital Hill know it has to. If they don't pass it, we are lost. If it passes and is poorly executed, we are lost. Even if it is executed with the greatest of skill and efficiency, it is still a fifty/fifty proposition.
Rooster Rugburn
09-24-2008, 22:12
I saw some of the testimony before the committee today. From the questions and statements being asked and made by most politicians, especially Schumer, it would appear that the democrat congress is afraid the republican administration will control the purse strings. I imagine they are concerned that they won't get to push millions of it to the unions and other leftist special interests.
Schumer kept saying "fair", like he wants to make sure those ineligible homebuyers his party forced on the banking industry, get their share of the handout.
As for Bush, well he was sticking his finger in McCains eye in return for all the times McCain did it to him the last 8 years.
Bush wants to reach that pinnacle of $12trillion of debt before he leaves office.
Razoreye
09-24-2008, 23:12
Personally, I've been reading up on this issue constantly. I don't know a lot of the stuff going on here but I'm trying to get a grasp on the situation. A lot of it seems greek to me to tell you the truth. That and there seems to be a million people across the internet with completely opposite views on how we got here, how to get out, the success of Buffet's plan, the success of Paulson's plan, etc., etc. So it's just like any issue some are saying it's perfect others preach doom and gloom.
I thought Bush did very well in explaining the basics of the situation in layman's terms. That's exactly what most the country needed to hear to get an idea of the situation. Now as far as the bailout plan I was hoping a more in depth explanation would be given. Then again it is still before Congress and they haven't decided so how can he really explain it? The basics of the said bailout plan has been on the net for a good week.
Overall, I thought it was a good speech. Maybe not what you wanted to hear, maybe not decisive, but then the decision doesn't rest solely on him either.
..........." we MUST protect the multi-multi-multi millionaires' children...."
............" we MUST delay the collapse of this system, to give these CEO's more time to finish raping their companies, thus protecting the children....."
Oh yeah, we MUST pas this bill to ensure the stock market survives.....IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN ( billionaires' children, dammitt ! ! )
ZAP ! Ime out :cool:
Amen!
srhoades
09-24-2008, 23:28
It is not possible to "pay for it". You cannot pay debt with debt. Using a debt-backed currency like the Federal Reserve Note, you can only discharge debt.
This new tidal-wave of debt being heaped upon us will be discharged by the only means possible.... we'll print more notes!
Easy, really.
All of a sudden the Zimbabwean dollar looks attractive....
ScubaSven
09-24-2008, 23:35
And explain to me again how it's Bush's fault that deadbeats don't pay their mortgage???
The fault lies with the morons who gave these deadbeats loans in the first place. (Helped mostly by republican efforts to de-regulate the banking industry.)
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