View Full Version : The High Road taken over by an admin who locked Oleg Volk out
Idontplaynice
09-24-2008, 23:21
Apparently, the admin wants to turn TheHighRoad.org into a profitable site with gun ads, so he had the site re-registered in his name. He then proceeded to lock Oleg Volk the owner and all other staff out.
Read of the saga here:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=761667&page=1
armorplated
09-24-2008, 23:36
I never knew what to think of that place. The mods, with the exception of 1911Tuner, were frequently accused of being badge heavy bullies.
Somebody on AR15 said THR is getting what it deserved.
I never knew what to think of that place. The mods, with the exception of 1911Tuner, were frequently accused of being badge heavy bullies.
Somebody on AR15 said THR is getting what it deserved.
LOL. By that logic ar15.com deserves something much worse.
Just Say No
09-24-2008, 23:44
I never knew what to think of that place. The mods, with the exception of 1911Tuner, were frequently accused of being badge heavy bullies.
Somebody on AR15 said THR is getting what it deserved.
In all my run ins with the owner he was a complete douchebag always saying "MINE, MINE, MINE" even though he had tons on people giving him cash.
This falls right there with Palin's email getting "hacked" while I feel for her/him if they were dumb enough to let security be this lax (like leaving your keys in the car at the mall) they get what was coming to them.
I hear ya, THR went downhill 2-3 years ago. I didn't know Tuner was still around, I need to look him up. One heck of a guy he is, used to talk to him a couple times a month.
That's a pity it's the best gun forum there is, the standards there are very high.
Looks like a straightforward case of theft to my untrained eye.
You can't trust anyone these days.
Minuteman
09-25-2008, 00:02
LOL. By that logic ar15.com deserves something much worse.
It does.
ChuteTheMall
09-25-2008, 00:03
Forums are fragile, I saw the same thing happen 5 years ago somewhere else.
After the coup, there was a rebellion and a purge/walkout/mass banning.
Refugees fled to other forums, and the site shrank into obscurity but still exists.
Found this on the opening page at THR.org
Downtime
I'll have the board up tomorrow, with details about this outage. Thanks for your patience.
-- Derek
When I first saw it, I thought it read, "...with details about this outrage..." :whistling:
Minuteman
09-25-2008, 00:32
When I first saw it, I thought it read, "...with details about this outrage..." :whistling:
Me too.
jakemccoy
09-25-2008, 00:38
That sucks. I hope they work it out. THR is a great site.
I have seen this happen before. You pick people that you trust, you turn your back, you get bent over and locked out of your own board. People are slippery. One day they are your buddy, the next they are stealing your wife.
Biscuitsjam
09-25-2008, 02:40
Here's the guy that stole the website:
http://www.derekzeanah.com/
If you click the "Contact" button on that webpage, it has his phone number, email address, and home address.
The Copyright page is funny
Copyright Statement
Brides who get digital files as part of their packages receive a license to use my images for non-commercial purposes. This page is not directed at persons licensed to use my work.
In the past, other photographers have taken my work and used it to promote themselves. In response I have taken the necessary steps to prove "willful infringement." This includes monthly registrations of all content with the US Copyright Office, publication of this copyright statement, and tagging of every file with my copyright information.
Simply put, if it is on this web site then it is registered. If you try to claim my work as your own, then I will seek statutory damages. If you sell any of my images for money without a license to do so, I will aggressively pursue maximum statutory damages. If you go so far as to take my work and apply your own copyright statement to it, I will do everything I can to see you are criminally prosecuted.
What you see here is my work. Attempts to claim it as your own are something I take very seriously.He also has a blog on his webpage.
Clyde in CO
09-25-2008, 02:48
lol somebody should call him
I haven't been to THR in quite awhile. I alway liked Oleg, and respected Rich from TFL.
Derek is being a prick, and should turn the site over to it's rightful owner. Oleg was there for us when TFL went down, and he should get any TFL'rs, or THR'ers support.
I didn't know Tuner was still around, I need to look him up. One heck of a guy he is, used to talk to him a couple times a month.
Wasn't "1911 Tuner" Dave Sample? If so, he is deceased. He passed away earlier this year in AZ.
Biscuitsjam
09-25-2008, 05:22
From what I've been able to gather. I'm not a member at THR, and I don't have any kind of inside scoop. I've just been reading about this for a couple hours. I hope I didn't screw up too bad on my summary.
It appears that Oleg Volk was the founder and true owner of the TheHighRoad.org . In the course of running his website, he used to services of a number of unpaid volunteers, including Derek Zeanah. Derek Zeanah ran the server administration.
At some stage, Oleg paid Derek a "bonus" for his past work on the site. At the time, Oleg was discussing the possibility of having a company sponsor the website, and Derek was under the impression that he'd get a part of the proceeds. However, the sponsorship didn't happen and there was no new money coming into the website.
Derek wanted to make money off the website from banner ads. Oleg refused. Derek locked Oleg out of the website. Shortly afterwards, Derek banned most of the moderators from the website, started removing certain discussion threads, and then shut down the whole site. He claims that he'll post an explanation of the "outage" tomorrow.
Derek has control of both the domain registration (he put it in his name, so the registrar won't deal with anyone else), and the forum database (he locked everyone else out using his administrator privileges).
Oleg Volk tried to negotiate with Derek and failed. Oleg even offered Derek money to just walk away and Derek refused. So, Oleg went public and is asking for donations to defray his legal costs. Initial costs are expected to be $5,000-6,000 and the legal battle will be more expensive if this continues.
The speculation is that Derek Zeanah wants to run the website for personal gain, though this seems out-of-character for him... Half the membership would jump ship and threaten to boycott any advertisers. It'll be interesting to see what Derek posts tomorrow - he won a Debate Team championship in school.
Most of what I found on Derek Zeanah makes him sound like an ordinary guy: MBA student, wedding photographer, amatuer mechanic, combat arms veteran (CA ARNG, 11C), computer geek, debate team (novice champion), firearms enthusiest, libertarian, married to a doctor (resident). I'm not a lawyer, but it seems doubtful that he has any legal right to do what he's done.
Most of what I found on Derek Zeanah makes him sound like an ordinary guy: MBA student, wedding photographer, amatuer mechanic, combat arms veteran (CA ARNG, 11C), computer geek, debate team (novice champion), firearms enthusiest, libertarian, married to a doctor (resident). I'm not a lawyer, but it seems doubtful that he has any legal right to do what he's done.
Except that he owns the domain name.
GlocknSpiehl
09-25-2008, 06:01
Um, ok, if the original owner bought all of the servers, etc, then why does he simply not have the thief arrested for grand theft? Servers are worth big $$$$ usually, so it should be pretty simple to do, I would think...
Daryl in Az
09-25-2008, 06:23
Forums are fragile, I saw the same thing happen 5 years ago somewhere else.
After the coup, there was a rebellion and a purge/walkout/mass banning.
Refugees fled to other forums, and the site shrank into obscurity but still exists.
If it's the one I'm thinking of, it happened during/right after a forum get-together in southern Wyoming.
But if so, it's been more than 5 years ago.
Somebody got mad about something, and banned the owners, then banned many of the mod's/admin's, and banned their own bad self.
They weren't trying to steal the sight though; just sabotage it.
Oh well, I'm digging up old bones that should stay buried.
Daryl
armorplated
09-25-2008, 06:50
Wasn't "1911 Tuner" Dave Sample? If so, he is deceased. He passed away earlier this year in AZ.
No. Tuner invited me to his home (to fix a 1911 for free: that's the kind of guy he is) about a month ago. And it wasn't in AZ. As soon as THR is back online I'll find out where.
Except that he owns the domain name.
That is the whole point.
VARifleman
09-25-2008, 07:38
Tuner is somewhere in central/western NC.
PeterJasonMN
09-25-2008, 07:50
I do believe Sgt. Hartman covered matters like this during his infamous "Jelly Donut" speech.
Um, ok, if the original owner bought all of the servers, etc, then why does he simply not have the thief arrested for grand theft? Servers are worth big $$$$ usually, so it should be pretty simple to do, I would think...
My bet is that the site is hosted on leased servers.
armorplated
09-25-2008, 08:10
My bet is that the site is hosted on leased servers.
If so, considering that THR generates no revenue for the owners (I've never seen any ads), instead of people sending Oleg $$$ for a lawsuit, why doesn't he just start another forum?
Seems like the money could be better spent elsewhere.
But it's like this poster said,
I hear ya, THR went downhill 2-3 years ago.
And somebody else commented that THR had become infested with anti government and anti LEO types.
I only went there for the tech sections cause they had some absolutely top notch guys there.
If so, considering that THR generates no revenue for the owners (I've never seen any ads), instead of people sending Oleg $$$ for a lawsuit, why doesn't he just start another forum?
Seems like the money could be better spent elsewhere.
There is a chain of custody and intelectual property between The Firing Line and The High Road's domains and other things when Rich Lubella shut it down to focus on his gun magazine activities, and Oleg Volk got The High Road started to take it's place as it's sister/daughter board, and keep things going.
And as Rich has put it, "He does not want to deal with terrorists". Oleg has also made very generous offers to buy THR back from Derek Z. and they've been rejected.
So they're going forward with legal action.
The sad thing is that Oleg Volk and the other mods and staff over at THR really bent over backwards to defend Derek during the height of post 9/11 anti-muslim sentiments.
I know there's a policy of not discussing other boards on GT, and I understand why. it's the inevitable bashing, and it's already started. Everyone who's being negative, please think for five seconds and cool it, huh?
Or just stay out of this thread and be quiet... for once?
And somebody else commented that THR had become infested with anti government and anti LEO types.
I only went there for the tech sections cause they had some absolutely top notch guys there.
Not outright bashing, but here's a perfect example. (sorry, not picking on you armorplated, just convenient to keep using the same quote...) First, here's the negative opinion based on hearsay, but right after that you post the correct and "adult" answer. You go there for what you liked, and just don't worry about the rest...
No one walks into a Chineese Buffet place and gets angry because it's not like the full-service Italian resturaunt they usualy frequent, do they?
Each board is different, has a different tone, and different standards.
Anyway, this is a truly despicable act of blatant piracy against a group of people, especialy Oleg Volk himself, who have always ultimately been on the same side of "the culture war" as GT or any other gun/pro-RKBA themed board.
If you want to help: http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/474369.html
MyBabyDaddy
09-25-2008, 08:34
If so, considering that THR generates no revenue for the owners (I've never seen any ads), instead of people sending Oleg $$$ for a lawsuit, why doesn't he just start another forum?
Seems like the money could be better spent elsewhere.
But it's like this poster said,
And somebody else commented that THR had become infested with anti government and anti LEO types.
I only went there for the tech sections cause they had some absolutely top notch guys there.
This is true. THR is a more "cut & dry" place then, say , glocktalk or arfcom. There's no general discussion/off topic forum, and the mods can be sticklers closing threads that do get off topic with the quickness. However, it is a great place to go for help. Some of the guys giving advise there are top knotch folks.
I dont visit often anymore because its just not a casual site to hang out and read. I just dont have that many questions about guns, and problems with guns that I need to keep getting info for ; and the site gets boring to me. Its the same threads over and over again ; only posted by different people. I find they dont let it get off topic enough to keep it interesting. I do hope they sort this mess out, tho. It is a good resource for people who do have questions and do need help.
BTW - 1911Tuner was modding over on m1911.org last I checked.
Marine8541
09-25-2008, 08:52
Oh the drama!! As much as I enjoy these types of gun forums too many people have them become their life. There was a certain site that mainly dealt with surplus weapons and the owner there constantly was able to wring money from the members on the threat of shutting down. In the end he left and turned it over to some other anyway. Enjoy the good sites like this one and don’t let these forums become too personal.
While what we are hearing right now makes all of this sound like downright fraud is being perpetrated against Oleg, I am curious to hear the other side of the story as well. As in most cases, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. What is really sad is that a lot of collective knowledge is getting lost in the process.
SouthernGal
09-25-2008, 09:12
As some of you may or may not know, I do some work for Oleg. I have just spoken to him.
I have offered to help support his efforts to raise money in an unusual way but left it up to his good judgement as to whether or not he wanted to do it. Just as Derek's says his photographical work is his property, the same can be said of Oleg's photographical work.
Oleg does feel that this is a huge betrayal of trust and is dealing with it accordingly.
hill billy
09-25-2008, 09:20
Apparently this is not the first time Derek has cheated some of his partners
http://www.karensimmons.info/derek.html
Oh the drama!! As much as I enjoy these types of gun forums too many people have them become their life.
I agree, to a point. However, what you're saying applies more to posters who get into petty squabbles and can't "let go" which frankly is the root of all acrimony and "board problems". And IMO, it also pertains to people who can't refer to another Internet gun board without being catty or negative too. :dunno:
When you're running that board, any successful board with any kind of significant membership and post count, it does become a significant part of your life. Even if it's a not-for-profit board and just a "hobby".
I assume you're a shooter, are your guns just a "hobby"? What if someone stole them and locked them up in his house instead? or maybe someone into cars, or has a fishing boat? And that person woke up one morning to find it was no longer in their driveway? What if you and a bunch of friends went in together and started a private gun range, and one day one partner changes the locks on the gate and kept everyone else out?
Where do you draw the line on something like that?
THR was not just some "McForum" hosted on a freeware site made up in one weekend. There is a very significant investment in time and money there, whether it's commercial, or volunteer supported makes no difference.
While what we are hearing right now makes all of this sound like downright fraud is being perpetrated against Oleg, I am curious to hear the other side of the story as well. As in most cases, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. What is really sad is that a lot of collective knowledge is getting lost in the process.
You're right, there is always two sides to a story. There apparently was other disagreements and politicking going on at THR when this went down.
However, the administrator Derek Zenah has only one moderator/admin out of 20+ who've sided with him. I'm sure that Derek has some sort of rationale for what he's done, or that he believes it's merely a "business decision" he's made of some sort. Or more simply the aministration work he's done to date for Oleg/THR entitles him to it.
Very few thieves/criminals ever sit there thinking "Hey, I'm EVIL, and I like it. Bahwahhahahahaha...." No one ever sees themselves as the "bad guy". That's just human nature.
No matter what their diferences were over the direction and moderation of the site were, Oleg Volk, the "godfather" of THR, TFL's Rich Lubella, and all the other mods and admins are in 100% agreement that this is plain theft and is simply wrong.
Minuteman
09-25-2008, 09:43
THR banner now says:
Downtime
I'll have the board up shortly after 11 o'clock EST. I realize everyone is anxious for the board to be live again. Thank you for your patience.
-- Derek
I guess we'll find out in a few minutes what Derek's side of the story is.
armorplated
09-25-2008, 09:57
Here's a comment off of another forum made by a former moderator on THR.
It certainly sounds like there's more to the story than we've been getting so far.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=761667&page=3
Time for me to take my mask off and say something.
I'm Beren@THR, a long-time member and moderator (currently on leave) at THR. The below is my own personal statement, however, and is not meant to represent the opinions or positions of Oleg, Derek, or THR staff.
It was my hope that this issue could've been worked out privately between Oleg and Derek, but with the events of the past day I see that won't be the case.
The THR hardware is hosted and maintained by Derek. He has physical control of the hardware, and administrative control of the domain name. That is Derek's leverage in this dispute.
Derek failed to respond to my requests to place a copy of the database in escrow pending resolution of the ownership disagreement.
Now, the site is down for reasons that will be explained "tomorrow", according to the banner.
Please do not spam Derek, call the guy names, or light up the pitchforks. That won't change anything. If you feel strongly about what is currently happening, make a donation to Oleg and the THR Legal Defense Fund. (Yeah, I just made up that title because it sounds nice.)
His screen name on the AR15 forum is "Macros73."
and the mods can be sticklers closing threads that do get off topic with the quickness.
The problem wasn't with the mods propagating THR standards. It was the way (most of them) behaved in the process. Some were truly unpleasant and unreasonable people. The reason THR got such a bad rep in many circles was because of them.
But then again, a couple were truly great.
grenadier
09-25-2008, 10:05
Hijacking is bad. In the end, it's up to the owner, and not those who help him, to make the final decision.
Lord Grey Boots
09-25-2008, 10:07
So, who owns the physical servers?
The problem wasn't with the mods propagating THR standards. It was the way (most of them) behaved in the process. Some were truly unpleasant and unreasonable people. The reason THR got such a bad rep in many circles was because of them.
But then again, a couple were truly great.
Being a mod is a lot like being a cop.
It may be the first time YOU have been speeding in years, but you're also the 25th person that cop has had to pull over today.
I'm not saying it justifies everything, but IMO, getting a little snarky is understandable when, uh... say a forum is "NO POLITICS" or there's some other TOS violation, and ample stickies and warnings posted, and you've had to move or lock your umpteenth thread in an hour...
Oleg and Derek lived together for a stint. They bought a car together (a convertible 3 series) and started a photography business (called 'Shoot the Rainbow').
Friends who know them well, know they were planning to wed in california. I suspect they're just having a temporary disagreement. They site will be back up shortly and they'll smooth things over between each other.
hill billy
09-25-2008, 10:18
Friends who know them well, know they were planning to wed in california. I suspect they're just having a temporary disagreement. They site will be back up shortly and they'll smooth things over between each other.
Seriously?:faint:
SIGSAREBETTER
09-25-2008, 10:21
Oleg and Derek lived together for a stint. They bought a car together (a convertible 3 series) and started a photography business (called 'Shoot the Rainbow').
Friends who know them well, know they were planning to wed in california. I suspect they're just having a temporary disagreement. They site will be back up shortly and they'll smooth things over between each other.
I seem to remember reading on Oleg's site that he was looking for a Mrs. Right....
ChuteTheMall
09-25-2008, 10:27
ibtl
I'm thankful that this thread exists here at the moment, because there is useful information here.
Please try to keep from causing this thread to get locked.
:popcorn:
Oleg and Derek lived together for a stint. They bought a car together (a convertible 3 series) and started a photography business (called 'Shoot the Rainbow').
Friends who know them well, know they were planning to wed in california. I suspect they're just having a temporary disagreement. They site will be back up shortly and they'll smooth things over between each other.
Okay, despite how serious the thread is, I admit, that got a chuckle.
Seriously?:faint:
:rofl:
No... Oleg likes girls. Has had some serious relationships, and IIRC the "looking for Mrs. Right" thing was kind of true.
And yes, if we can keep this from getting locked, I'd appreciate it. However people feel about "other boards" (I'm guilty of it too...) We're all on the same side in the RKBA fight. And even if there are those who don't want to help, or aren't THR members, IMO, it's good that people are at least kept aware if/when THR should re-open under false pretenses.
armorplated
09-25-2008, 10:29
And as Rich (Lubella) has put it, "He does not want to deal with terrorists".
He was referring to Derek? Is this because Derek is muslim? Because I remember one of the mods shutting down a thread about Islam cause she said THR was owned by a muslim.
Would that be Derek? So, at least one mod recognized Derek as the (legal) owner? That was probably a year ago.
If so, Oleg's going to have a hard time proving ownership if the mods recognized Derek as owner.
Oleg has also made very generous offers to buy THR back from Derek Z. and they've been rejected.
If Oleg has tried to "buy back" THR from Derek, that implies that Derek is the owner.
I don't think a judge will be able to sift through it all.
Rabbit994
09-25-2008, 10:36
Generally in Domain name disputes, the person who name is attach to domain wins the dispute. That's why your crazy to let any of your domains get attached to anyone else name.
hill billy
09-25-2008, 10:37
No... Oleg likes girls. Has had some serious relationships, and IIRC the "looking for Mrs. Right" thing was kind of true.
Aww geez. I guessed I fell for it, huh? I was finding they both liked chicks in some places on the net. The gay thing would have added a whole other interesting dimension to this drama.
Minuteman
09-25-2008, 10:40
It's back up.
misskitty5077
09-25-2008, 10:43
Oleg and Derek lived together for a stint. They bought a car together (a convertible 3 series) and started a photography business (called 'Shoot the Rainbow').
Friends who know them well, know they were planning to wed in california. I suspect they're just having a temporary disagreement. They site will be back up shortly and they'll smooth things over between each other.
What does this have to do with anything? This is personal life, not business.
You posted this knowing how anti-homosexual GT can be at times. Any more fuel you want to dump on this fire? :upeyes:
Minuteman
09-25-2008, 10:46
September 25th, 2008 until October 26th, 2008
Derek Zeanah
System Administrator
Drama Warning
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sorry I had to leave such a vague message while the board was down these last 12 hours. Some legal threats were made, and I thought it prudent to get legal advice before reacting.
For nearly six years THR has operated as a voluntary community. Oleg has been the face of the board. I assembled and provided the engine. While user contributions were appreciated, I hosted the board almost completely at my own expense and preformed the technical work necessary to keep the system available 24 by 7 and ahead of our ever-growing user demand. The moderators kept things on an even keel, and over 75,000 others have contributed to make the board what it now is. I'm very proud of what we've become, and I’m committed most of all that the Board remain a place we are all proud of and where we all feel at home.
To my deep regret, during these last few weeks an issue that Oleg and I should have worked out privately has become an increasingly public dispute. I deeply regret this development and apologize for having been unable to work through our differences in a less harmful manner. This is an internal dispute, and should not have gotten out in the open forum to be the distraction it has become.
During this time, I have continued to operate THR on exactly the same basis you have come to expect. My assertion this entire time is that the status quo should be maintained unless THR staff decide otherwise, and that we should use a rational process to evaluate potential changes. Having said that, THR has grown substantially these last few years, and our continued growth makes some kind of change inevitable in order to pay for the increasing resource commitments our growth requires.
As far back as I can remember Oleg and have had the understanding that we were joint owners. A few weeks ago, Oleg changed his mind. I have not. We need to resolve this equitably and between ourselves, but in my view neither of us should be willing to proceed in a manner that politicizes the issue and damages this community.
Last night, someone began to use the THR to solicit members to contribute to a legal fight. I took the board down after another moderator dealt with the posts and alerted me to them. This is a perhaps a harsh measure, but I will act as I am able to preserve this community. The Board may not be used to sabotage the Board, and I will insist on that. There are thousands of users out there who just want to use THR as they always have so they can pursue their interests in peace. We have already had many moderators resign due to the tenor of discussions surrounding this issue, and it is my intention that we prevent similar damage to the forum at large.
During whatever happens, I will make every effort to maintain THR in the manner you have all come to expect. I hope cooler heads can prevail to keep THR something we are all happy with and remain proud of.
-- Derek
http://www.thehighroad.org/announcement.php?f=18
armorplated
09-25-2008, 10:58
http://www.thehighroad.org/announcement.php?f=18
Well, that's a whole other side to the story, isn't it?
Apparently, the admin wants to turn TheHighRoad.org into a profitable site with gun ads, so he had the site re-registered in his name. He then proceeded to lock Oleg Volk the owner and all other staff out.
Read of the saga here:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=761667&page=1
I love it!
It couldn't have happened to a bigger bunch of cop bigots. Burn, baby, burn.
He was referring to Derek? Is this because Derek is muslim? Because I remember one of the mods (a plump woman who was forever going through menopause) shutting down a thread about Islam cause she said THR was owned by a muslim.
Would that be Derek? So, at least one mod recognized Derek as the (legal) owner? That was probably a year ago.
If so, Oleg's going to have a hard time proving ownership if the mods recognized Derek as owner.
If Oleg has tried to "buy back" THR from Derek, that implies that Derek is the owner.
I don't think a judge will be able to sift through it all.
Short version, Derek changed the domain registration from Oleg to himself two years ago and didn't tell anyone.
He started locking everyone out when this was discovered.
Derek was offered money, because yes, a judge CAN sift through it all, but it takes time and money. It sucks to reward someone for bad acts but sometimes it's just plain easier to pay off scum to just go away and get things back to normal ASAP.
Oleg has already had a lot of experience in intelectual property disputes with the misuse of his pro-RKBA posters and images. So he and those working with him are far from starting at square one, scratching their heads, figuring out what to do and where to get a lawyer etc.
I love it!
It couldn't have happened to a bigger bunch of cop bigots. Burn, baby, burn.
I know THR's reputation in certain areas. I'll simply state that I've seen "cop bashing" get moderated there.
armorplated
09-25-2008, 11:14
Short version, Derek changed the domain registration from Oleg to himself two years ago and didn't tell anyone.
That's the thing. There are statutes to be considered. If a situation exists for a period of time, courts will rule in favor of the longest running most recent circumstance.
If you have people cutting through your yard for years, and then you suddenly decided you don't want them cutting through your yard, the people who used that path have a case to keep it open, just because that's the way it's been.
If you occupy a house with no one's knowledge for enough time, it's yours by something called adverse possession.
yes, a judge CAN sift through it all, but it takes time and money.
I don't think lower court judges are smart enough or internet savvy enough to sift it through. And by the time Oleg would have defended his case, he would have spent enough money to buy his own servers and start another forum.
But I don't know if Oleg can prove his case. Derek obviously has some mods on his side. The courts aren't going to know who to believe.
Well, that's a whole other side to the story, isn't it?
Certainly, and I knew there would be.
However, that does nothing to explain why Derek switched domain registration to his name two years ago and did not tell anybody. (Sloppy on Oleg, or whoever's part, I admit, but still...)
Nor in that nice "I want to keep everything the same as it always was" statment does he mention his desire to commercialize THR...
I understand the sqatting/property line analogies, however, this is more a case of "I was the biggest volunteer, now I own it..."
But I don't know if Oleg can prove his case. Derek obviously has some mods on his side. The courts aren't going to know who to believe.
AFAIK, Derek has ONE. And the courts hassle out domain registration disputes all the time. And it's not just Oleg, Rich Lubella has a stake in it too. Now that the board is back up, Oleg just posted and is still listed as "ADMINISTRATOR" in bold-red, but no one should believe he really is.
SouthernGal
09-25-2008, 11:17
Oleg and Derek lived together for a stint. They bought a car together (a convertible 3 series) and started a photography business (called 'Shoot the Rainbow').
Friends who know them well, know they were planning to wed in california. I suspect they're just having a temporary disagreement. They site will be back up shortly and they'll smooth things over between each other.
Very funny, the only problem with your story is that Oleg isn't gay.
Why would Oleg offer Derek $75K for ownership of a site that doesn't generate any revenue at present?
armorplated
09-25-2008, 11:24
this is more a case of "I was the biggest volunteer, now I own it..."
From Derek's statement: "I assembled and provided the engine. While user contributions were appreciated, I hosted the board almost completely at my own expense and preformed the technical work necessary to keep the system available 24 by 7 and ahead of our ever-growing user demand."
That is a clear indication of legal ownership if it can be proven.
Why would Oleg offer Derek $75K for ownership of a site that doesn't generate any revenue at present?
Pure speculation, but Oleg has connections, friends, and backers, and they've estimated this is what the legal fight may have cost...
And looking elsewhere, there does seem to be a pattern of previous "partnerships" that have fallen to pieces, where Derek is the common thread...
From Derek's statement: "I assembled and provided the engine. While user contributions were appreciated, I hosted the board almost completely at my own expense and preformed the technical work necessary to keep the system available 24 by 7 and ahead of our ever-growing user demand."
That is a clear indication of legal ownership if it can be proven.
Right now, that is all just posturing for the THR user base, hoping the bulk of the users aren't even following, or aware there's a dispute. IMO, DZ's statment seems to be intentionally very vauge, OTOH Oleg and those on his side are leveling some very specific charges.
armorplated
09-25-2008, 11:26
Why would Oleg offer Derek $75K for ownership of a site that doesn't generate any revenue at present?
Why does a man spend ten million dollars (average cost for a presidential campaign) to get a four year job that pays only $200k/year?
Minuteman
09-25-2008, 11:27
Well, that's a whole other side to the story, isn't it?
Not really. It sounds pretty hollow to me. He claims they are "joint owners"? Then how can he lock out another owner? Why did he change the registration to his name only?
Of Oleg was the original owner, then he is still the only owner unless he gave a way some of it in writting. If there is no written proof of that, then it sounds like Derek has simply decided it is now his and he has stolen it because he feels entitled to it.
Longtooths
09-25-2008, 11:34
I love cheese. like string cheese hoooooly that stuff is good.
Why does a man spend ten million dollars (average cost for a presidential campaign) to get a four year job that pays only $200k/year?
Because candidates aren't spending their own money.
BTW, the cost of a presidential race is upwards of $100 million.
Pure speculation, but Oleg has connections, friends, and backers, and they've estimated this is what the legal fight may have cost...
And looking elsewhere, there does seem to be a pattern of previous "partnerships" that have fallen to pieces, where Derek is the common thread...
Oleg said that most of his legal work is being done pro-bono and that his actual legal expenses would be $5-6K. That is a far cry from the $75K being offered. To me that signals that something else is brewing behind the scenes that they are likely keeping quiet.
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