sub-sonic ammo, and supressors

[brass308]

I've seem to remember reading somewhere that most of the new supressors allow one to shoot full factory ammo and still shoot pretty quiet. However I have always been told that for a silencer to work properly one had to use sub-sonic ammo. So what gives? If I can use full power ammo what is lost? I understand that with something like a .308 rifle, I'm just not going to get a silence like I would with a .22, but what do I get? How do these things work? I'm trying and trying to figure it all out. Thanks a bounch.

Cheers

[MrPoyz]

there are basically two components that makes up the "sound" of a shot... Gas escaping the barrel, and sonic boom from the projectile. A silencer can work on the former, but short of bleeding gas from holes in the barrel to drop velocity below trans-sonic levels it can do nothing about the latter. My own (legal) experimentations are limited to .308, but the sonic boom is larger than one'd think. There's some good info. about these things at http://guns.connect.fi/ (you may have to click around a bit, and part of the site is in finnish, but there's lots of good reading in english too in there).

[Jakk]

As was mentioned before, a silencer will do nothing to quiet the sonic boom when the bullet breaks the sound barrier. It seems more pronounced in some guns than in others. The sound from a .22 rimfire is almost entirely sonic boom. If you shoot a supersonic .22 through a can, it's hard to even tell the difference. However, a .223 through a good can will now sound about like a .22 rimfire.

[jchen]

I have a Charter AR-7 survival rifle with short barrel and 12 inch "High Effiency" surpressor and I can tell you first hand it still makes noise..most from the bolt as noise escapes as it is semi-auto. Since it's a .22, I've tried tieing bolt closed as it has a perpendicular rod that is exposed. That cuts down noise but it's still not silent.

I also have a Cobray M-11 9mm full auto that I've used with the 18" suppressor. All it did was take a little bark out of the firing..However, I have fired a M-10 .45 cal with silencer and about all you hear is the bolt slapping back...very impressive...By the way...all is legal as I paid, and have, transfer tax stamps on all my stuff......

[Glockdude1]

jchen,

Do you by chance have a mac 10 9mm also? I am looking for some mags for my mac. I have a older one (Marietta, ga) that uses the "expensive" walther double stack mags. I would also be interested in scherer mags also....

;N

[jchen]

Glockdude1......No I don't have the Mac10-9mm. My former PD used the Mac10-9mm and I could check them out anytime I wanted. That's where I got to use the Mac's suppressor as it was interchangeable on the Mac-11. Where I screwed up was that I relied on the PD's suppressor and didn't purchase one for my M-11. This thing is handfull in full-auto mode w/o one. The Mac 10 is sweet though, especially in .45 caliber. Just on a sidenote, I had a chance to buy an Uzi for $600.00 when I got the Mac....those were the days.....;e

[brass308]

Ok, so the main function of the can is to reduce the sound from the gasses excaping from the barrel after the shot is taken. The idea of the subsonic ammo is to do away with the 'sonic boom' of the bullet traveling through the air. So if one just uses the can the crack will still be heard. But if one uses the subs without the can it will most likely still be quieter. Does all of this sound about right?

Also, what are the average effects of the can on a .308? Should one use a longer or shorter model? What is subsconic going to do for accuracy? Is there one design of can that tends to work better than another? And ofcourse... Links and Pics??;)

Thanks for the help thus far.

Cheers

[Glockdude1]

jchen,

Looking back, I should have got the Uzi.....So much easier to get mags, parts, suppressor, etc......

;N

"Honey I need a Uzi"

[CanadianGlockFan]

I've fired a suppressed 308 with both sub-sonic and standard ammo, and the main benefit you get with the subsonic ammo is that you don't get a little "sonic boom" that follows the bullet downrange; that bounces off of intervening objects (cars, berms, trees, etc.), and you can hear it echo back at you. With the subsonic rounds, you can hear the primer "POP!", and a little bit of a puff when the bullet leaves the suppressor, but it's significantly quieter than the full-house loads.

[jchen]

Glockdude1...Have you tried www.cobray.com ? I got some parts from them and they were reasonable.

[Glockdude1]

Yes cobray does has nice parts & accs. I am going to look into getting a uzi. I WANT a MP5,(who doesn't??).

;N

[jchen]

I saw several full auto "new" mp-5s at my last gun show. I got real suspicious as I was told by an H&K rep a few years ago that H&K has NEVER sold automatic weapons to civilians. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I know that was their policy a while back. Anyway, I got to giving this dealer the third degree and he told me they were "converted". Since he wanted $5,000.00 apiece, and I don"t know what, if any, build quality difference there is between semi and full auto weapons...I walked away. This same H&K rep gave a demonstration of his "toys" at our PD and my favorite was their CAR-15 size assault rifle w/12-14 inch barrel in .233 cal. I'd hock my wife for that one......;e

[UZIFORME]

Imported machineguns got stopped in 1968 so all citizen owned MP5s are conversion guns or presample guns dealers kept when they gave up thier license.

Just the conversion kit is 5k so add a host semi auto for 3k and you will never find a transferable HK for under 8k.

Now special weapons knockoffs sell for around 1200 so you could possibly get one of those set up full auto for under

No HK never sold machineguns to civilians. They sold them to law enforcement, dealers, and as semi autos. Then citizens bought thier guns from Law Enforcement, dealers and converted semi autos to full auto.

[MrPoyz]

Sounds about right...

Here's an in-depth discussion about how to measure sound levels for things like this... http://guns.connect.fi/rs/measure.html If you follow the links in that article, you'll find among other things, the audiogram they got for a 308, notes on subsonic reloading, and a bunch of other stuff that you might find interesting. Note that the site in question is in finland, so the legal climate for things like this is (a LOT) different. If you're looking into getting a silencer, I guess asking manufacturers/sellers of these things would be a good bet... I wouldn't know how complicated that is in the US, but I understand it's a somewhat involved process. If you're just curious and/or sound concious, http://guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane1.html might be a safer idea :)

[brass308]

Thanks MrPoyz

I think I can get some good info out of both sites.

I just loved the pic from the first site...

[Glockdude1]

brass308,

I'll bet who ever fired that rd is glad they did not decide to do a "double tap"........