View Full Version : Door Locks...
Okay...I closed on a house yesterday, and changed locks today.
My view on door locks: locks aren't there to keep people out...they are there to keep honest people from getting bad ideas. To expound a bit on that...aside from putting a lot of money into securing your doors (getting steel frames/doors, etc etc), there is no good way to keep somebody who really wants in from getting in. You can have an incredibly great set of doors, but unless you live in a windowless house, you're fairly vulnerable. To combat that and still give yourself a decent defense, you have the option of an alarm system and a dog when you're gone.
When you're home, door locks and windows make it harder for someone who wants in to get in quietly.
With that in mind, what brand of locks do you recommend? I bought some kwiksets today. There were Schlages on the shelf for significantly more $$$, but that doesn't mean much when you can kick a door in if you really want to.
..and when it comes down to it, both brands have that little ID number for getting "like keys" right on the box. I'm not overly concerned about somebody being able to pick one vs. not pick another to gain entrance...anybody who really wants in, etc etc.
So...aside from the differences between the two products, and investing more money than I can afford into building a vault, what would you do? :supergrin: Custom type locks from a smith, alarm system, etc etc?
I do have a dog, so thats not an issue ;)
Outside motion sensor lighting that faces away from the house, pointing towards a bad guy walking up to the house.
No easy place to hide near the house, such as shrubs touching the perimeter of the house itself.
I think a dog is the good inexpensive alert while you're home.
I think some sort of extra-loud noisemaker when a glass is shattered would be good.
And if someone does break in, while I'm not home, I want them on video in living color.
Personally, that's why I would like to build my own home. You won't be kicking in my door, and you won't be breaking my windows. You better come with a serious battering ram or some explosives. Then you better shoot the guard dogs coming for your cojones.
captainstormy
09-27-2008, 23:39
Honestly I would just change the locks to whatever brand/type you already have and not worry about it.
The point of changing the locks is to make sure that you know exactly who has a key to your house. There are alot of break ins where people sell a house and then someone who had a key to that house uses it to get in and rob the new owner.
Like you said anyone that really wants to get in will. Just make sure that you have some good insurance in case of a break in.
A Brinks/ADT type alarm isn't a bad idea thou. They arn't that expensive and they do prevent alot of random theifs from people looking for soft targets. They often reduce insurance rates as well so they could even save you money to have them installed in the long run deepening on how long you have the house.
Aside from that just try to minimize your chances of people targeting you. Don't leave your doors/windows open for people to look in. Don't let people know what is inside your house. Don't have any large bushes/trees near your windows or doors, motion sensing lights aren't a bad idea either.
Honestly I would just change the locks to whatever brand/type you already have and not worry about it.
The point of changing the locks is to make sure that you know exactly who has a key to your house.
Yeah...the lock thing is funny. You can have the toughest lock to pick in the world, but if it came off the shelf, there is somebody else out there with your exact key. I looked at kwiksets and schlage, and both had the "like key" number on the box. schalges are supposed to be better locks, but if someone had one of every type, it wouldn't really matter. Main thing I'm concerned about at home is the amount of noise it takes for someone to gain entrance. If I'm not home, someone could kick a door in or just bust out the big ass window in front of the house and be in almost immediately (hence the dog).
A Brinks/ADT type alarm isn't a bad idea thou. They arn't that expensive and they do prevent alot of random theifs from people looking for soft targets. They often reduce insurance rates as well so they could even save you money to have them installed in the long run deepening on how long you have the house.
I've considered it...but they can also be a pita. False alarms, etc etc. Everybody and their mother has a Brinks sign outside their house, and I'd bet that a lot of them don't have a system. Putting a sign outside may be a deterrent, or it may not be. To a casual burglar, it may be...a professional wouldn't blink at an alarm system...and to be honest, I don't have anything worth stealing :supergrin: Might throw a 'fake' sign out for fun, but I wouldn't expect any difference in the end result.
I did buy in a quiet, nice, clean, neighborhood...when I was in cleaning carpet and such, I got a knock on the door from a neighbor who wanted to say 'hi,' to the new guy. That is good in a lot of ways, and possibly bad in a few. No idea if the neighbors are nosy, but they apparently are watchful :) Time will tell if they are good or a PITA, but I have a wide lot and lots of room between houses :rofl:
I thought the little kid from Home Alone had some good ideas...
scalding hot door knobs, blow torch if you open the door.
Makes identification that much easier. :supergrin:
mike7465
09-28-2008, 00:03
Congrats on the new house!
We changed the locks on the new house and that was a big moment...
We really owned the house at that moment!
bchandler
09-28-2008, 00:06
An alarm system is a must. Be sure to cover every window and door. If you have a lot of windows in one room (non sliding) you can get away with a single glass break sensor sometimes. Most thieves are stupid criminals and kids who will be quickly deterred by a screeching siren and the knowledge that the cops are coming. A professional thief probably has ways around a system, but why put in the work when there are easier targets without systems? A thief can cut the line that the system uses to contact the call center, but you can opt for a wireless unit for an upgrade fee. That way, the cops are getting called no matter what. They also call your cell phone to ask if you set it off (they ask for your code if its a false alarm), and if you say no, the cops come.
You will have a few false alarms early in the morning when groggy and such but once you get used to the system it's no big deal. For the price of a high quality pistol you can completely deck out your home. I'd go with a 3rd party contractor rather than brinks, ADT, or similar name brand. You get more for your money and they all use the same call centers. We have an off brand and the response is excellent (like 10 seconds) when we have a false alarm.
Honesty, a pro thief would "blink" at an alarm system. If ALL your windows and doors are covered and there is a motion sensor inside, the alarm is gonna go off when he gets in. I don't think the fake sign would fool a thief though, he just has to look though your window to see if there is a sensor on it.
Regarding windows, I think I saw somewhere a clear film you can laminate your window with that makes it impossible to shatter (like safety glass). might be worth it depending on cost.
Also I agree with the motion activated perimeter lights. We have some that are always on, but dim, and light up brightly upon motion. A thief will overlook your brightly lit home for the dark one next door.
Most of security is just about deterrence, it is impossible to create a 100% fail-proof security system. Just like chaining up a bicycle; it's pretty easy to cut the chain, but if the rest of the bikes next to yours aren't locked up, which one do you think the thief will steal?
Congrats on the new house!
We changed the locks on the new house and that was a big moment...
We really owned the house at that moment!
Thanks :)
It still doesn't feel real...and it probably won't until November 1st when I make that payment... :rofl:
Marine8541
09-28-2008, 00:14
Unless you live in a very high end and exclusive part of town I wouldn’t concern myself with the real professional. Less than 20 minutes from me there are houses that start at 3.5 million and any bugler who’s a pro will bypass me and keep going up the canyon. My concern is making it as difficult as possible for the rest.
I have steel security doors with reinforced frames, static and motion lights, bars on the back windows, and I’m that guy who will tell people who want to pet my dog to go away because he will bite. I also paid a price from the wife because I cut down the decorative landscaping that was too close to the garage and obscured the windows. I also make sure that I know my neighbors and they know me by hosting a few BBQs during the summer.
I'm not a big beliver in alarms because I've heard too many go off in both houses and cars and people are unconcerned and Bad guys know that they have a few minutes even with the noise.
All this and I can promise you that with the right motivation and a little luck someone can still rob me blind. But I hope that I made it hard enough that the bad guy will go next door.
.
Honesty, a pro thief would "blink" at an alarm system. If ALL your windows and doors are covered and there is a motion sensor inside, the alarm is gonna go off when he gets in. I don't think the fake sign would fool a thief though, he just has to look though your window to see if there is a sensor on it.
That goes back to my original thinking...all the 'security' isn't to keep people out, per se...it is to keep honest people honest, and make it impossibly to get in quietly. Noise is everything in that case; I wake up pretty easy to unexpected noises, and a good dog wakes up to everything that isn't normal.
When I delivered pizzas, I went up to countless doors where I saw and ADT sign and just knew there was no alarm system on the house...there were too many obvious signs that they didn't care about their property.
Also I agree with the motion activated perimeter lights. We have some that are always on, but dim, and light up brightly upon motion. A thief will overlook your brightly lit home for the dark one next door.
That is probably the best part. My neighbor is VERY well lit at night, which I don't begrudge one bit. Some of it flows over into my property, which doesn't bother me one bit. I DO plan on leaving my entrances well lit up, if nothing else.
Most of security is just about deterrence, it is impossible to create a 100% fail-proof security system.
That is the quintessential summary of what I believe. Aside from creating a vault that you can't enjoy and live a normal life in, it is all about deterrence and making someone else's house a better target. Lighting and appearance accomplish the most (imo).
Unless you live in a very high end and exclusive part of town I wouldn’t concern myself with the real professional. Less than 20 minutes from me there are houses that start at 3.5 million and any bugler who’s a pro will bypass me and keep going up the canyon. My concern is making it as difficult as possible for the rest.
I hear ya...100%. My neighborhood is very nice, but certainly not in the millions per house. To be honest, my possessions aren't worth much...I'd be more concerned about property damage than theft. If somebody wants to steal my bed, desk, and 10 year old TV, more power to them...all of that is worth maybe a couple thousand. If they came in and trashed the place, that would cost a LOT more money.
I have steel security doors with reinforced frames, static and motion lights, bars on the back windows, and I’m that guy who will tell people who want to pet my dog to go away because he will bite. I also paid a price from the wife because I cut down the decorative landscaping that was too close to the garage and obscured the windows. I also make sure that I know my neighbors and they know me by hosting a few BBQs during the summer.
Steel doors/frames aren't in my future soon because of the $$$ factor. Lights will be up soon...cockroaches run from light :supergrin: Knowing neighbors is a wonderful thing, and something I will be cultivating soon.
I'm not a big beliver in alarms because I've heard too many go off in both houses and cars and people are unconcerned and Bad guys know that they have a few minutes even with the noise.
Same with car alarms...back in the day they brought attention...these days people don't even look because they figure someone accidentely hit the panic button :supergrin:
[quoteAll this and I can promise you that with the right motivation and a little luck someone can still rob me blind. But I hope that I made it hard enough that the bad guy will go next door.[/QUOTE]
hahaha...I just posted that... "make your neighbors house more viable" type concept.
Thanks for your reply...I appreciate all the viewpoints :)
<--- chopped liver
Congrats, be safe.
Marine8541
09-28-2008, 00:28
Dang I forgot to add enjoy your new home.
DustyBottoms
09-28-2008, 00:37
I changed all my key locks to combination dead locks.
I hate carrying house keys.
Anyone pressing the keys makes an audible beep that is clearly heard throughout the house. Plenty of time for me to grab the closest available gun and greet them at the door.
mike7465
09-28-2008, 00:51
We have been thinking about one of those finger print dead bolts at Lowes. No real reason other than I love cool tec....
blueiron
09-28-2008, 01:13
Get replacement value on your homeowner's insurance.
Ignore the alarm systems - burglars, neighbors, and the police do.
You already own a dog.
Learn to lock your own stuff up and secure it. Far too many people leave their garage doors open all day and then find stuff missing. Don't leave windows and doors open.
Know your neighbors. They will look out for you, if you look out for them.
The majority of burglaries happen during the day - so exterior lighting isn't important for that.
Rolling shutters aren't cheap, but they are great if you leave on vacation.
Go outside and lock all the doors to your house. As you stand in front of your house, pretend you have lost your keys and ask yourself how do you get in. Break a window in the door? Door kick? Lift out a sliding window? Examining your own house like that will show some surprising weaknesses.
Contact the local police/sheriff and ask what the most prevalent method of residential burglary is in your area. That will tell you what to address.
HandyMan Hugh
09-28-2008, 01:31
Hiya Ender: Congrats on the house. Looks like a nice place.
Kwickset is a low end lock. They do tend to wear out and break sooner than the Schlage and some other mid grade locksets.
If you decide to go with Kwickset, you CAN have them keyed alike so that you only need one key to get into your house from any of the doors. Also, use a lockset that has the small "latch guard" plunger on it. That will prevent someone from using a credit card or a hacksaw blade to slip the latch.
Another trick to consider for improving security. Remove the molding from the latch side of the inside door frame. Install hardwood spacers between the door frame and the 2X4 next to the doorframe. Then replace the screws that hold the striker plate to the door frame with (depending on the size of the original screws) either #6 or #8 X 3" hard (deck or sheetrock) screws. Drill pilot holes in your spacers before driving the new screws to prevent the splitting of your spacers. Drive the new screws right into the 2X4s behind the door frame, and snug them good. A potential burglar might well break his leg trying to kick in your door.
I forgot to mention Deadbolts. Use the same long screw method for securing the deadbolt striker plate as detailed above. Use a double cylinder deadbolt on doors that have windows in or around them. For safety's sake place a key near that door, but out of sight or reach from the windows. That way YOU can get out in case of fire, but a burglar won't be able to see or reach the emergency key from outside. On doors that have no windows,(such as the door from the garage into the house) use a "turn button" type deadbolt.
Why bother with locks, Ender? I'd wager good money that within a month a veritable cornucopia of cheap broads, floozies & hoochie mamas will have a copy of your key courtesy of Ender. :supergrin:
:tongueout::rofl::animlol:
ElectricZombie
09-28-2008, 01:58
Deadbolts and motion sensor lights on the exterior of your home are a good idea. These are not a bad idea either: http://www.homesecuritystore.com/ezStore123/DTProductZoom.asp?productID=1017
Why bother with locks, Ender? I'd wager good money that within a month a veritable cornucopia of cheap broads, floozies & hoochie mamas will have a copy of your key courtesy of Ender. :supergrin:
Yeah, but they have to be smart enough to find their way back... :whistling:
Peace Frog
09-28-2008, 07:45
You can buy the Schlages from a locksmith without the numbers on them and have them rekeyed so all you need is one key for the house.I have Schlages and also burglar bars and doors on my home...to many weapons in here.Of course I know anybody can still get in but it is a deterrent and most bad guys will move on to a easier target.
I'd go with a 3rd party contractor rather than brinks, ADT, or similar name brand. You get more for your money and they all use the same call centers. We have an off brand and the response is excellent (like 10 seconds) when we have a false alarm.
Wrong, ADT has their own call centers, they have 5 scattered throughout the US, they are the only company to do so.
Aikidoka
09-28-2008, 09:07
I've been a locksmith for over 23 years and I get this question all the time. You already have one of the best locks you can have, and thats the dog. You made a great point in your first post that you need to make it LOUDER for someone to get in. Also you want it to take longer for them as well. NO ONE spends the time to 'pick' a lock to gain access into a home they are trying to break into. Without seeing the house the first thing I will ask is what is the 'point of attack' on your house.??? Do you have basement windows that are ground level ??? Of so go with "burglar bars", Yeah I know it makes you feel like a prisoner in your own home but they have hinge kits so you can at least sing them out of the way if you need to. As far as Pick Proof locks and BUMP locks, I wouldnt spend the extra money on it BUT....BUT I would not buy a lock that keys can be made at any Mom & Pop hardware store or home center. Go with a Registered or Restricted key that can only be made by a lock dealer or participating locksmith. If you like send me a PM and Ill give you my contact info and Ill help you out with this more.
aircarver
09-28-2008, 09:11
Change the code on the garage door opener !
My daughter bought a house & got one opener for the garage. The other was 'lost'....
She bought two new openers & keyed them to the existing code.
Well, the 'lost' opener was in the hands of family of the seller, and within a month a break-in through the garage was attempted. It was foiled because they didn't know an alarm had been added.
The moral of the story is change the code, don't go with the existing one....
longhair
09-28-2008, 11:45
Someone has already mentioned the fact that you can have the locks re-keyed. Also be aware that when having dead bolts installed, you must have the security ring installed in the door jamb. Had two houses side by side broken into(before they were sold, stealing the micro waves), one was a house I installed the dead bolt on and the other installed by someone else. Mine was left with a busted door, still on the hinges and the microwave still in the house. The other lost both the door and the stove.
FLRon777
09-28-2008, 11:53
Congratulations Ender! :cheers:
Thanks :)
It still doesn't feel real...and it probably won't until November 1st when I make that payment... :rofl:
Let that payment be a reminder to go to your assessor's office and file for your Homestead Tax Credit. Also, if this is your first home and you closed after April 9 of this year, you will qualify for the Income Tax Credit passed by our Congress a couple months ago. If you make less than $150,000 a year, you should qualify for up to $7,500 of free money. Now, it IS a loan, even though they are calling it a credit. Nevertheless, it is interest free money, payable over 15 years, not a bad deal if you wanted to fix the place up a bit or buy some furniture.
In my opinion you should get an alarm. I am a Realtor- Commercial and Residential and the properties with alarms that get broken into I can count with one hand.
Right now I have a commercial listing that has 4 houses on it, a church, a warehouse, and 9 apartments. EVERY SINGLE UNIT has been broken into (vacant) except ONE house. That house happens to have an ADT alarm and sign outside, and stickers on the window. It is not monitored, but the people stay out of it because there is too much other stuff that is easier to break into. My 2cents.
And congratulations on the new house!
Someday, you may meet a special girl you want to keep.
http://www.masterdoorlock.com/images/illustrations/large/ext_double.gif
I used to get locked into security complexes while delivering packages. I was *****ing and moaning about it to a friend of mine who owns a plumbing business. He used to have to wait for a locksmith to let him into apartments with water flowing under the door.
He became a locksmith and learned how to pick most locks. Now he charges property management types for the service call and the locksmith call and they are happy to pay to reduce water damages. He taught me and I haven't been locked in or out since. It aint exactly rocket surgery.
Someday, you may meet a special girl you want to keep.
http://www.masterdoorlock.com/images/illustrations/large/ext_double.gif
:rofl:
On a somewhat serious note, congratulations and good luck with your home.:cool:
It amazes me how many people spend $$$$ for the best metal doors, metal frames and only the best dead bolts when they live in a building which has holes filled with glass. You will never keep anyone out that wants in....your only hope is to make it difficult and loud enough that if you are home you will be alerted. I have saw entry made though doors, windows, attics and walls.
Having built homes and installed locks and door hardware professionally, it is my opinion that door locks are there to 1) deter crimes of opportunity, and 2) slow down an intruder and force them to make noise.
Here are some things that I have done and would suggest others do to improve their home security:
1) Install deadbolts with all included hardware. This means using the 3-1/2" #10 screws to secure the strike plate and backing plate to the door framing. Otherwise, the deadbolt is useless.
2) Put 3" - 4" screws through each of the door hinges and into the framing to secure the hinge side of the door. I also put 3 or 4 countersunk (and filled, sanded, and painted over) through the latch side jamb to secure it as well.
3) Install locking hardware on all doors that can only be operated from inside the house. A thief can't pick or bump a lock that they don't know is there. Turnbolts are the simplest, but there are many options.
3) Install multiple locks on each door, and space them out along the latch side to spread out any impact forces. Three or four locks are more effective along a 60" span on a door than an 18" span at waist height.
4) Always re-key your locks, even if it's a brand new house. I've usually paid about $100 per house to have them rekeyed on site by a locksmith.
5) Install an alarm system. Every window and door should be monitored, not just the first floor. If you can afford it, have it installed with IR cameras above all high-traffic areas and first floor entrances - facing into the house, to get a good look at intruders' faces as they leave - and hide a DVR somewhere in the house. The DVR should be locked up, and have a backup power supply in case power is interrupted.
6) Plant prowler-deterrent plants below windows, to make such spaces painful. Vegetation should be light enough to deny concealment.
7) Install lights on motion detectors.
8) Don't rely on the door locks on a sliding patio door to keep it secure. A piece of wood or metal pipe in the door track is an easy way to keep it shut, but a locking bar designed specifically for this application is also available and easily installed. The locking bar is better because it is stronger (than a pipe in the track) when installed at waist height.
9) Keep the blinds closed/curtains drawn at night. A prowler in the dark can study your habits very easily from your yard and plan an attack if you let him see you.
10) Don't sleep with the window open.
11) If you have the opportunity to buy a home, choose one which keeps the bedrooms seperate from the common areas, and one with a floorplan which could easily be used to force an intruder down a predetermined path toward you if he chooses to leave the common areas for the bedrooms. It's better to know with a high degree of certainty where an intruder will come from (and that your loved ones are safely behind you) if you feel you may have to defend your family.
10) Don't sleep with the window open.
DO you mean any windows? Or just ones that are on the first floor for those of us with 2 story homes?? I am sure that my wife would love me telling her that I need to keep the a/c on because we need to keep all of the windows shut in case a burglar tries to get in.:rofl:
DO you mean any windows? Or just ones that are on the first floor for those of us with 2 story homes?? I am sure that my wife would love me telling her that I need to keep the a/c on because we need to keep all of the windows shut in case a burglar tries to get in.:rofl:
I guess that would require your judgment. No windows at all is the safest, but for most people the first floor is sufficient. If you have 2 floors, a second floor window accessible from the roof should probably be left locked. Criminals can and do climb atop service yard fences to access the roof in the hope of finding an unsecured second floor window.
I guess that would require your judgment. No windows at all is the safest, but for most people the first floor is sufficient. If you have 2 floors, a second floor window accessible from the roof should probably be left locked. Criminals can and do climb atop service yard fences to access the roof in the hope of finding an unsecured second floor window.
Actually for the record, I shut and lock all windows when not home. Rather be safe then sorry. When at home all windows are open when awake, first floor shut when sleeping.
With that in mind, what brand of locks do you recommend? I bought some kwiksets today. There were Schlages on the shelf for significantly more $$$, When we first moved into our house, we got some cheapies (not even Kwiksets). The doorknobs got a little loose over the years but they weren't bad.
Then recently we "upgraded" to Schlage. Big mistake -- our front door handle lock will seize up so you can't even turn the key to unlock it from outside. We had it replaced under warranty, and the new lock did exactly the same thing within a few days... so now we have to rely on the deadbolt alone for that door. Annoying. And the Schlages are still pickable/bumpable, so I'm not really sure what all that extra money bought, now.
One of those brands has a deal where you can rekey your own locks without a locksmith. That seems like a pretty cool feature -- in case you or your family ever loses a key (or you gave someone a key and later changed your mind about them having access), you can save on rekeying costs.
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