The iconography and superficial love of the 1911, a sensible investigation

[vrex]

Magazines, people who read gun magazines, people who know a little about guns and claim to know a lot,and even those who really know a lot, love, or rather, are obsessed with the 1911. It's never-ending. It never stops...why I ask....WHY!??????

The ever enduring symbol of the "good ol' .45 theres nothin'- like- it- caliber shows no signs of slowing down. Why? I believe it almost entirely revolves around one basic premise: it looks COOL.

Don't get me wrong. It IS cool. very cool. Every pistol collector should have one. It is an important part of our history and our lore.

Is it a modern service weapon one should stake his life upon to use and abuse and count on? I don't know. I really don't. Let's look shall we, unbiased and logically at some basic pros and cons of our 1911.

First, the cons, these are my cons, coming from my opinions and experiences, and are not general cons:

-Antiquated design
-grip safety...really?
-You need to or should buy a certain type of magazine (Wilson) to hope it functions properly.
-Most do not function properly a good portion of the time, in fact I have never seen one go over a few hundred rounds without a malfunction. Contest after contest I watch them stovepipe and FTE. I've never personally seen one that functions 100% ever.
-Designed for ball ammo, not modern hollowpoints
-7-8 rounds? Really? A big step in modern firearms is mag capacity which means everything. Yes, everything when meaning something matters.

-Beavertail. yes, beavertail. Something to snag and poke your palm when you reach for it, and standardize how close to the bore you can grab your pistolo, which any seasoned shooter will tell you is important for fast follow-ups.
-Cannot be field stripped without a tool
-Rust prone, and tend to bind up and hold dirt fast when not cleaned often
-My father who was a Marine in Vietnam and is NOT a gun fan (so I get an unbiased opinion) told me, and only when I asked him, that his and others m1911's jammed often. I believe him.

Okay, now that I have every 1911 fan good and p.o'ed here are my PROS

-Coolest looking friggin pistol on the planet
-If you don't shoot often, the best dang trigger around
-Pretty darn accurate the good ones are!
-Great first shot hit potential, if you draw and get the safety down. FAST.
-points good (whatever that means)
-Slim design, commander lengths great for folks to carry
-looks sweet
The original .45 A masterpiece that set the stage for the generations to come
-A tinkerers dream
-neverending aftermarket parts and cool grips
-looks cool!



Call me silly, but it's 2008. When guns jam it makes me vomit, and turns me off to them. Modern autoloaders rarely jam, the good ones at least. In a tool that only has one function is that not important? it would be like a tire that does not roll, or a pen that writes only once in a while.

The 1911 gets a "bye" in that dept. though. Why? Because it was designed a 100 friggin years ago, that's why! it was the first of it's kind, and great, it was and still is. However, we don't see model T's on the highway do we? Imagine someone trying to tinker a model T with goodyear tires, a modern transmission, disc brakes, modern doors, airbags,,,etc. Would it still be a model T? Or would it be a representation of one attempting to be modernized, but still lacking the modern engineering advances. Even then, would the model T be as good as a stripped down 2008 Toyota? Think about it.

Let's not forget though, It looks COOL.

[liliysdad]

More nonsensical ramblings by a fan of the plastic.

I actually see far more stoppages from Rugers, Glocks, Sigs, etc than QAULITY 1911s. Thats the kicker...the poorly made and modified 1911s are seen as the norm, when a quality made 1911 i as reliable as any Glock.

[Sarge45]

Brudda, you done it now. I agree with everything you said...










except the bad stuff. :wavey:

[bac1023]

Magazines, people who read gun magazines, people who know a little about guns and claim to know a lot, love, or rather, are obsessed with the 1911. It's never-ending. It never stops...why I ask....WHY!??????

The ever enduring symbol of the "good ol' .45 theres nothin'- like- it- caliber shows no signs of slowing down. Why? I believe it almost entirely revolves around one basic premise: it looks COOL.

Don't get me wrong. It IS cool. very cool. Every pistol collector should have one. It is an important part of our history and our lore.

Is it a modern service weapon one should stake his life upon to use and abuse and count on? I don't know. I really don't. Let's look shall we, unbiased and logically at some basic pros and cons of our 1911.

First, the cons, these are my cons, coming from my opinions and experiences, and are not general cons:

-Antiquated design
-grip safety...really?
-You need to or should buy a certain type of magazine (Wilson) to hope it functions properly.
-Most do not function properly a good portion of the time, in fact I have never seen one go over a few hundred rounds without a malfunction. Contest after contest I watch them stovepipe and FTE. I've never personally seen one that functions 100% ever.
-Designed for ball ammo, not modern hollowpoints
-7-8 rounds? Really? A big step in modern firearms is mag capacity which means everything. Yes, everything when meaning something matters.

-Beavertail. yes, beavertail. Something to snag and poke your palm when you reach for it, and standardize how close to the bore you can grab your pistolo, which any seasoned shooter will tell you is important for fast follow-ups.
-Cannot be field stripped without a tool
-Rust prone, and tend to bind up and hold dirt fast when not cleaned often
-My father who was a Marine in Vietnam and is NOT a gun fan (so I get an unbiased opinion) told me, and only when I asked him, that his and others m1911's jammed often. I believe him.

Okay, now that I have every 1911 fan good and p.o'ed here are my PROS

-Coolest looking friggin pistol on the planet
-If you don't shoot often, the best dang trigger around
-Pretty darn accurate the good ones are!
-Great first shot hit potential, if you draw and get the safety down. FAST.
-points good (whatever that means)
-Slim design, commander lengths great for folks to carry
-looks sweet
The original .45 A masterpiece that set the stage for the generations to come
-A tinkerers dream
-neverending aftermarket parts and cool grips
-looks cool!

Pros and cons yes. Anyone can debate anything endessly/ For me, I would grab my Glock 21, 14 rounds of never once jamming simple to operate and reload points-good-for me coolness.


Call me silly, but it's 2008. When guns jam it makes me vomit, and turns me off to them. Modern autoloaders rarely jam, the good ones at least. In a tool that only has one function is that not important? it would be like a tire that does not roll, or a pen that wirtes only once in a while.

The 1911 gets a "bye" in that dept. though. Why? Because it was designed a 100 friggin years ago, that's why! it was the first of it's kind, and great, it was and still is, but, we don't see model T's on the highway do we?imagine someone trying to tinker a model t with goodyears, a modern transmission, disc brakes, miodern doors, airbags,,,etc. Would it still be a model T? Or would it be a representation of one attampting to be modernized, but still lacking the modern engineering advances. Even then, would the model T be as good as a stripped down 2008 Toyota? Think about it.

Let's not forget though, It looks COOL.

You sound ridiculous.

They shoot incredibly and are made of real metal, believe it or not. A well built 1911 is very reliable. Most of mine have been more reliable than my two Glocks.

[bac1023]

More nonsensical ramblings by a fan of the plastic.



Yeah, most of them are bottom feeders too.

[skud_dusty]

I had a series 80 Colt that never jammed or hiccuped once. It fed everything from cheap bulk reloads to wide cavity hollow points. It ran perfectly on cheap mags. The Glock 19 I used to own wouldn't lock the slide back when empty. I tested this with 4 different brand new mags, and it still would randomly fail to lock back. I carried the Colt on occasion, but not too often due to the weight...which is my only complaint. Then again, the 1911 wasn't designed to be CC'd, it was designed to be a full size combat weapon. If you do your part 7-8 rounds is MORE than enough.

All that being said...I carry a Sig 239 and sold the few 1911s I've owned :P

[GlockFish]

Too many words.

[gconan]

Inexperianced gunwriter talking. Probably paid by a non-1911 maker.

[vrex]

Yeah, most of them are bottom feeders too.


NOT a bottom feeder. I shoot often, compete and need my sidearm at work, everyday of every year. my experiences are my own, the above stated is my opinion and mine only. Agree, disagree, call me crazy, but insult me? WTF.

[bac1023]

NOT a bottom feeder. I shoot often, compete and need my sidearm at work, everyday of every year. my experiences are my own, the above stated is my opinion and mine only. Agree, disagree, call me crazy, but insult me? WTF.

WTF?

OK, you're crazy.

Go back to General Glocking.

[liliysdad]

I, too, carry my gun as essential to my profession. I gladly sacrifice you supposed necessary capacity, and light weight, and instead carry an antiquated, low capacity, unreliable 1911. By the way, that unreliable 1911 has not missed one beat in over 11k rounds.

[rgregoryb]

Damn...I have been wrong for over 30 years carrying that antique!

[hardeyes]

Hello;

I Like the 1911, They look good and function well, That being said,

I carry Glocks (in 9mm), and HK's...

hardeyes

[vrex]

The boys here at work swore to me I'd catch flack as I do from them. Did I not say I liked them? That I have one!? Ok , ok, Its better than any other pistol that has been designed in 100 years, it never fails, and is perfect, right down to the grip saftey. I'm an idiot, a wanna be, Never have I been in any real life scenarios, I don't compete and I cannot shoot worth a damn.

[Wraith]

when a quality made 1911 i as reliable as any Glock.

That's the problem, you have to shell out $ for a quality 1911 that everybody and their dog copies and tries to make better that the original, when you can only buy one Glock, no copies made because they make the best. :whistling:

[RONSTAR]

:faint:This reminds me of when to litle girls fight.:deadhorse:

[gconan]

That's the problem, you have to shell out $ for a quality 1911 that everybody and their dog copies and tries to make better that the original, when you can only buy one Glock, no copies made because they make the best. :whistling:

That is why Glock is a great choice for one's first hand gun. But when one becomes a firearms enthusist and want to grow...........

[Cobra64]

You sound ridiculous.

They shoot incredibly and are made of real metal, believe it or not. A well built 1911 is very reliable. Most of mine have been more reliable than my two Glocks.

Bac,

Leave it alone. This is just another display of class envy by a guy that drives a 1983 Volvo station wagon, and shares needles with his boyfriend who he met when doing time in Rahway state prison.

We can still have fun though.

Did you know that if you buy a $3,000 Les Baer 1911, it comes shipped in a carboard box? Cool huh?

By the way, those were two great posts on the bright side. I knew that format would generate conversation. Maybe when I get my 1911 I'll do a comparison between it and my Sig P220.

.

[Agent6-3/8]

More nonsensical ramblings by a fan of the plastic.




:agree:





Sorry, vrex, but you're way off on this one.


My 1911 has been flawless for over 3000 rounds. The funny thing is that the vast majority of people I've talked to have similar experiences.


I've reached two conclusions about the myth of 1911 unreliability:

1. It's perpetuated by the internet and people who don't know what they're talking about.

2. Its perpetuated by people that don't know what they're doing and take a brand new gun to the range and run it dry. They then run home and complain on the internet about their 1911 being a POS.



What baffles me to no end is why people just can't accept the fact that 1911's work. (especially Glockers it seems) I own both and carry both depending on what I'm doing, wearing and mood. I really like both platforms and both worth well. I swear, the banter between both sides reminds me of the antics that goes on amongst high school freshmen.

[Cobra64]

Inexperianced gunwriter talking. Probably paid by a non-1911 maker.

Yeah, and definitely an Obama supporter.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Dopey%20Democrats/DougReed.jpg


.

[RonS]

Biggest crock outside of congress, there are too many incorrect assertions to bother correcting them.

[Cobra64]

I, too, carry my gun as essential to my profession. I gladly sacrifice you supposed necessary capacity, and light weight, and instead carry an antiquated, low capacity, unreliable 1911. By the way, that unreliable 1911 has not missed one beat in over 11k rounds.


Yes, but I imagine you're in the military or a LEO.

This clown couldn't graduate from the police academy, so he ended up a mall security guard, and after hours, hangs out at the tattoo parlor looking to pick up 2 o'clock ugly biker chicks.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/barney.jpg


.

[vrex]

:agree:










Sorry, vrex, but you're way off on this one.


My 1911 has been flawless for over 3000 rounds. The funny thing is that the vast majority of people I've talked to have similar experiences.


I've reached two conclusions about the myth of 1911 unreliability:

1. It's perpetuated by the internet and people who don't know what they're talking about.

2. Its perpetuated by people that don't know what they're doing and take a brand new gun to the range and run it dry. They then run home and complain on the internet about their 1911 being a POS.



What baffles me to no end is why people just can't accept the fact that 1911's work. (especially Glockers it seems) I own both and carry both depending on what I'm doing, wearing and mood. I really like both platforms and both worth well. I swear, the banter between both sides reminds me of the antics that goes on amongst high school freshmen.

I have owned a quality 1911 for a little while, I have seen many and shot many, yes, many. My observations come from real life, not Net nerds with their little fake scenarios and opinions.
My stated purpose was to try and look at the pros and cons and get valid feedback. Most of the feedback is just personal little comments and not substance from reading my post. I wish my 1911 functioned flawless. is doesnt. it required a "break in" period where it was jamming every 9-10 rounds. Can someone tell me really what is a break in period.
Maybe I am just pissed off that I spent so much on a gun that I have to do so much tinkering with. I had to have one like so many others, and I do like it. My father carried one when he was in Viet Nam, well before my time.

I'm not biased either way and I do like the weapon. I'm not changing my opinion now though.

[MTMilitiaman]

Sensible, you say?

Let's be sensible about this.

The motivated warriors in MEU(SOC) and Delta do not continue to insist on a 1911 because it is unreliable. Nor does the FBI Hostage Rescue Team and LAPD SWAT cling to the antiquated design because it looks cool.

My brother's Springfield MilSpec has been more reliable than my Glock or my HK.

Let's consider that while currently only one manufacture on the market makes Glocks, dozens make 1911s. The popularity of the pistol is one reason why the rumors concerning the 1911's reliability are so persistent. If everyone and their dog made a Glock, there'd be a few more bad Glocks out there. The fact remains that in terms of inherent or intrinsic mechanical reliability, a good 1911 is right up there with any of the more modern designs. The 1911 doesn't continue to be popular, doesn't continue to be in high demand by elite units that have a choice, or by civilians who also have a choice, because it is finicky, unreliable, and has a low magazine capacity.

It is, however, still the most shootable pistol on the market. When you consider that there is still no handgun on the market that points as well or balances as well for the majority of shooters, that combines such a good trigger and sights with this natural pointing ability, and then chambers it for an relatively effective defensive handgun round with recoil characteristics most people can shoot well with minimal practice, you begin to understand how the 1911 still offers faster on-target performance than its competition. And when you then consider that only hits count and that the one who scores the first hit usually wins, it is glaringly apparent why the 1911 remains so popular--because it's sensible...

[bac1023]

That's the problem, you have to shell out $ for a quality 1911 that everybody and their dog copies and tries to make better that the original, when you can only buy one Glock, no copies made because they make the best. :whistling:

:rofl:

Wraith, you have always drank the Kool-Aid with the best of them around here.

:rofl:

[vrex]

Sensible, you say?

Let's be sensible about this.

The motivated warriors in MEU(SOC) and Delta do not continue to insist on a 1911 because it is unreliable. Nor does the FBI Hostage Rescue Team and LAPD SWAT cling to the antiquated design because it looks cool.

My brother's Springfield MilSpec has been more reliable than my Glock or my HK.

Let's consider that while currently only one manufacture on the market makes Glocks, dozens make 1911s. The popularity of the pistol is one reason why the rumors concerning the 1911's reliability are so persistent. If everyone and their dog made a Glock, there'd be a few more bad Glocks out there. The fact remains that in terms of inherent or intrinsic mechanical reliability, a good 1911 is right up there with any of the more modern designs. The 1911 doesn't continue to be popular, doesn't continue to be in high demand by elite units that have a choice, or by civilians who also have a choice, because it is finicky, unreliable, and has a low magazine capacity.

It is, however, still the most shootable pistol on the market. When you consider that there is still no handgun on the market that points as well or balances as well for the majority of shooters, that combines such a good trigger and sights with this natural pointing ability, and then chambers it for an relatively effective defensive handgun round with recoil characteristics most people can shoot well with minimal practice, you begin to understand how the 1911 still offers faster on-target performance than its competition. And when you then consider that only hits count and that the one who scores the first hit usually wins, it is glaringly apparent why the 1911 remains so popular--because it's sensible...


Great response. I appreciate the that you did not get personal, either. I know many special agencies do used makes of 1911 (LAPD/Kimber custom) and it is because of just that, it's first shot hit potential.

Other companies do make Glocks, look at all the internal striker fired polymer pistols that have popped on the market. Not Glocks, but copies.
Also, the units you describe insist on the 1911 because their alternatives are high bore axis pistols, better known as more modern "ergonomics" craze, designed to be more pointable for better possible first hit, but clumsy, slow, with bad follows and muzzle climb. The 1911 can rattle off those 8 shots very, very fast and precisely. I was hoping to hear from both sides of the table on this debate.

[Cobra64]

:rofl:

Wraith, you have always drank the Kool-Aid with the best of them around here.

:rofl:

He should do his homework.

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hk_vp70z.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/Heckler%20Koch/HKVP70znail.jpg

H&K developed this in 1968; went into production in 1970. Sixteen years before Glock.


"The VP 70 pistol is quite unique, being well ahead of its time in some respects, and while it did not catch the military or civilian market, it set the marks for the many more sucessful followers. The VP-70 (Volks Pistole model 70) had been developed by HK around 1968, and the production began in 1970. Production of the military / law enforcement version, VP-70M, had been ceased fithin few years. Civilian version, VP-70Z, had been manufactured untill 1989."

"The VP-70 is a blowback operated, striker fired, double action only pistol. In military version, VP-70M, it can be used along with detachable shoulder stock - holster, which has built in fire selector device, that allows to fire single shots or three rounds bursts. Withouth the stock attached, only single shots can be fired. Another then-unique feature was the polymer frame."

"In fact, the VP-70 was the FIRST EVER productional pistol with polymer frame. The DAO trigger with no manual safeties was alo not so common in the early 1970s. Despite the simply blowback operation, not so common in 9mm Luger/Para handguns, the VP-70 had modest felt recoil, but heavy and long trigger pull does not helped to improve accuracy."


.

[vrex]

He should do his homework.

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hk_vp70z.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/Heckler%20Koch/HKVP70znail.jpg

H&K developed this in 1968; went into production in 1970. Sixteen years before Glock.


"The VP 70 pistol is quite unique, being well ahead of its time in some respects, and while it did not catch the military or civilian market, it set the marks for the many more sucessful followers. The VP-70 (Volks Pistole model 70) had been developed by HK around 1968, and the production began in 1970. Production of the military / law enforcement version, VP-70M, had been ceased fithin few years. Civilian version, VP-70Z, had been manufactured untill 1989."

"The VP-70 is a blowback operated, striker fired, double action only pistol. In military version, VP-70M, it can be used along with detachable shoulder stock - holster, which has built in fire selector device, that allows to fire single shots or three rounds bursts. Withouth the stock attached, only single shots can be fired. Another then-unique feature was the polymer frame."

"In fact, the VP-70 was the FIRST EVER productional pistol with polymer frame. The DAO trigger with no manual safeties was alo not so common in the early 1970s. Despite the simply blowback operation, not so common in 9mm Luger/Para handguns, the VP-70 had modest felt recoil, but heavy and long trigger pull does not helped to improve accuracy."


.

I actually DID know about the HK, but I did not know it was striker fired. You do have some good info for me and not just crude, useless and empty insults!:cool:

[bac1023]

I've never seen one of them in person, but HK has always built some real unique firearms.

[bac1023]

I actually DID know about the HK, but I did not know it was striker fired. You do have some good info for me and not just crude, useless and empty insults!:cool:

Yeah, but your opening post was useless and crude as well.

[vrex]

Yeah, but your opening post was useless and crude as well.

Nope. I wanted to see two sides of a good debate. my experience with the 1911 has not been as positive. I live/work in a secluded area where a general consensus can stick. it's nice to go online and see what people from all over have to say. I have not seen what I am reading. I would like to. That being said I have no intentions of selling my 1911, but I will not carry mine for personal defense.

[gconan]

Great response. I appreciate the that you did not get personal, either. I know many special agencies do used makes of 1911 (LAPD/Kimber custom) and it is because of just that, it's first shot hit potential.

Or rather it's 8 round potential

The 1911 can rattle off those 8 shots very, very fast and precisely.

See, you seemed to know that?

[NY Glock]

Why is every one coming down on V-Rex. He is 100% right. The only people that buy over priced 1911's drive 7 series BWMs 20 mph under the limit with the blinker on. Their idea of a good time is opening their safe and admiring their shiney non functional 1911s. :rofl:

[bac1023]

Why is every one coming down on V-Rex. He is 100% right. The only people that buy over priced 1911's drive 7 series BWMs 20 mph under the limit with the blinker on. Their idea of a good time is opening their safe and admiring their shiney non functional 1911s. :rofl:

BMW?

How about Lotus! :supergrin:

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/3076/0000211uk6.jpg

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/4853/0000200fd6.jpg

I'd rather carry a gun to match, like my Ed Brown Kobra Carry.

Carrying a Glock in a Lotus is a little like going to a 5 star restaurant and ordering a hotdog and baked beans. :rofl:

[Cobra64]

Yeah, but your opening post was useless and crude as well.

Bac,

You're wasting your time with this wastrel. I doubt he has even seen a 1911.

.

[Cobra64]

Why is every one coming down on V-Rex. He is 100% right. The only people that buy over priced 1911's drive 7 series BWMs 20 mph under the limit with the blinker on. Their idea of a good time is opening their safe and admiring their shiney non functional 1911s. :rofl:

Ah, the class envy guy is back from NY with the 11# NYC Glock trigger.

Actually I have a BMW and one of these:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Cars/CobraPRR2.jpg


Before our investments tanked, my wife was looking att getting one of these:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Cars/BMW3.jpg



I thinK Bac has a Colin Chapman English beauty, and some sort of two wheeled crotch rocket.



.

[bac1023]

Actually I have a BMW and one of these:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Cars/CobraPRR2.jpg
.

I love that Cobra!

[bac1023]

Before our investments tanked, my wife was looking att getting one of these:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Cars/BMW3.jpg




That is one beautiful Beemer. :)

Gotta love German engineering whether its cars, guns, or just about anything else.

[Forgoten214]

To each his own I guess, I am an admirer of all firearms.

[Cobra64]

That is one beautiful Beemer. :)

Gotta love German engineering whether its cars, guns, or just about anything else.

The Swiss babes aren't bad either.

I was in Lucerne for several months on business.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Babes%20and%20Bras/Beerfest.jpg

She's drinking Spaten, a German brew.

.

[bac1023]

The Swiss babes aren't bad either.

I was in Lucerne for several months on business.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Babes%20and%20Bras/Beerfest.jpg

She's drinking Spaten, a German brew.

.

:wow:

[gconan]

vrex , when you get a good 1911 there is nothing like it. I too wondered about the expensive one's, if they were worth it. You just have to do a little research and take the plunge. You said you had one and it is less than ideal. What model do you have?

[srothman]

I have owned a quality 1911 for a little while, I have seen many and shot many, yes, many. My observations come from real life, not Net nerds with their little fake scenarios and opinions.
My stated purpose was to try and look at the pros and cons and get valid feedback. Most of the feedback is just personal little comments and not substance from reading my post. I wish my 1911 functioned flawless. is doesnt. it required a "break in" period where it was jamming every 9-10 rounds. Can someone tell me really what is a break in period.
Maybe I am just pissed off that I spent so much on a gun that I have to do so much tinkering with. I had to have one like so many others, and I do like it. My father carried one when he was in Viet Nam, well before my time.

I'm not biased either way and I do like the weapon. I'm not changing my opinion now though.


Maybe that is part of your problem, you tinkered with it. So the gun is bad since you were an idiot, and tried to fix it yourself. Try sending it to a professional, and then complain it does not work.

I have a few 1911's, and every single last one of them is reliable, and I would bet that they all will go 500+. probably 1,000+ rounds without a cleaning, and without any jams.

[Cobra64]

Maybe that is part of your problem, you tinkered with it. So the gun is bad since you were an idiot, and tried to fix it yourself.



He was just doing some trigger work. Glockers love to work on their guns.

http://www.drillspot.com/pimages/2319/231997_300.jpghttp://airgas.com/cachedImages/0000018/t047_r09236_v6.jpg

(That's a German Dremmel on the right)

.

[vrex]

Maybe that is part of your problem, you tinkered with it. So the gun is bad since you were an idiot, and tried to fix it yourself. Try sending it to a professional, and then complain it does not work.

I have a lot of 1911's, and every single last one of them is reliable, and I would bet that they all will go 500 rounds without a cleaning, and without any jams.


Your right, Im an idiot and I call people I do not know idiots online. Which is the dumber thing? I polished the feed ramp, broke in the magazines, lubed the slide and messsed a little with extractor springs. Nope, don't need a smith round dese here parts

[vrex]

vrex , when you get a good 1911 there is nothing like it. I too wondered about the expensive one's, if they were worth it. You just have to do a little research and take the plunge. You said you had one and it is less than ideal. What model do you have?

I really don't want to blast any particular makes online, that is not my intention. let's just say it is from a reputable manufacturer and was at about the 800 dollar price point. I have not seen in action any of the high end 1911's.

[Wraith]

That is why Glock is a great choice for one's first hand gun. But when one becomes a firearms enthusist and want to grow...........

LOL, been shooting Glocks since 94' and hasn't had a mis-fire since, trust my life to it. I have to wonder why so many 1911 guys post in a Glock forum. :rofl:

[Wraith]

He should do his homework.

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hk_vp70z.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/Heckler%20Koch/HKVP70znail.jpg

H&K developed this in 1968; went into production in 1970. Sixteen years before Glock.


"The VP 70 pistol is quite unique, being well ahead of its time in some respects, and while it did not catch the military or civilian market, it set the marks for the many more sucessful followers. The VP-70 (Volks Pistole model 70) had been developed by HK around 1968, and the production began in 1970. Production of the military / law enforcement version, VP-70M, had been ceased fithin few years. Civilian version, VP-70Z, had been manufactured untill 1989."

"The VP-70 is a blowback operated, striker fired, double action only pistol. In military version, VP-70M, it can be used along with detachable shoulder stock - holster, which has built in fire selector device, that allows to fire single shots or three rounds bursts. Withouth the stock attached, only single shots can be fired. Another then-unique feature was the polymer frame."

"In fact, the VP-70 was the FIRST EVER productional pistol with polymer frame. The DAO trigger with no manual safeties was alo not so common in the early 1970s. Despite the simply blowback operation, not so common in 9mm Luger/Para handguns, the VP-70 had modest felt recoil, but heavy and long trigger pull does not helped to improve accuracy."


.

LOLZ, if they did it right, and people recognized it they would have been the first to be the biggest, they didn't and Glock did. Doesn't change history. Like I said before, why are 1911 people on a Glock forum trying to recruit?

[No Frills McGee]

click my sig for free stuff

[Cobra64]

LOL, been shooting Glocks since 94' and hasn't had a mis-fire since, trust my life to it. I have to wonder why so many 1911 guys post in a Glock. :rofl:

Cool. I've been shooting Brownings, Remingtons, Winchesters, Colts, and Berettas since 1966 and haven't had a mis-fire yet either.

1911 guys have prolific tastes. We don't live in any given manufacuter's isolationist universe.

A year and a half ago, damn near every post in the Non-Glock forum, Glockers were ripping the living hell out of Sigs and HKs. I took a stand and present facts to those whose incessant rant was:

Sigs are over priced!
Sigs Suck!
Sigs are over priced!
They're rust buckets!
Sigs are over priced!
Too many levers, buttons and switches!
Sigs are over priced!
Heavy!
Sigs are over priced!
Bulky!
Sigs are over priced!
Doorstops!
Sigs are over priced!
Boat anchors!
Sigs are over priced!

Almost everything on Glock Talk is price. Then take a look at all the crap that gets traded every day. People buy $200 crap, get pissed off, send it back to the factory for the 17th time, and trade it at a loss for another POS. At the end of the day that's what they're left with... Crap.

Take a look at the attitude now; 18 months later, there's more buzz and inquiries about Sigs. There are dozens of proud, new, excited Sig owners on GT.

It's due to opening the myopic eyes of folks who live in the land of cheap; when in reality, cheap is more expensive. Cheap tools cost you a fortune.



Enter the Bac-ster 1023.

The bastard has me in to ordering two 1911s. Zero to two in $2,800. He, along with a few other 1911ers are spending my money faster than I can make it, and they should be in jail for pimping 1911s.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Happy%20Faces/3dsmiley2.gif


So, in general, I'd say, folks should cut their whining, open their eyes and their pre-conditioned, anti-everything-that's-not-a-Glock mind; and learn from others.

I figured out a long time ago there are two kinds of snobs (a popular term around here).

"The poor snob hasn't had the stuff the rich snob has, so can't speak from experience."

Just like the clown that made the silly remark about the BMW 750 drivers.

Did I mention this is a gun forum, and 1911s are guns too?

.

[Zombie Steve]

I own a Glock. I like my G30. I carry the G30 more often than not. It's reliable and fairly inexpensive. It also feels like a 2X4 and the trigger has the smoothness of a palsy victim performing brain surgery with a pipe wrench. While it has "combat effective" accuracy, it's nothing to write home about.

I've owned 3 1911's (bac would say 2... one was a double stack P-14).

I've never had a rust or magazine problem, and I can disassemble them without tools.

I had one (Kimber) that was sold off because it never ran right. The other two never skipped a beat - roughly 8,000 rounds through the Para, roughly 1,200 through the TRP so far...

My Glock had a FTF a few weeks ago.

All in all, the Glock does what it's supposed to do, and it has its niche in the market. It's a good gun.

When a 1911 is done right, it's a great gun that points instinctively and has a nice crisp trigger. It's also much more accurate. If it came down to one, it would be the 1911 for me.

[Wraith]

Cool. I've been shooting Brownings, Remingtons, Winchesters, Colts, and Berettas since 1966 and haven't had a mis-fire yet either.

1911 guys have prolific tastes. We don't live in any given manufacuter's isolationist universe.

A year and a half ago, damn near every post in the Non-Glock forum, Glockers were ripping the living hell out of Sigs and HKs. I took a stand and present facts to those whose incessant rant was:

Sigs are over priced!
Sigs Suck!
Sigs are over priced!
They're rust buckets!
Sigs are over priced!
Too many levers, buttons and switches!
Sigs are over priced!
Heavy!
Sigs are over priced!
Bulky!
Sigs are over priced!
Doorstops!
Sigs are over priced!
Boat anchors!
Sigs are over priced!

Almost everything on Glock Talk is price. Then take a look at all the crap that gets traded every day. People buy $200 crap, get pissed off, send it back to the factory for the 17th time, and trade it at a loss for another POS. At the end of the day that's what they're left with... Crap.

Take a look at the attitude now; 18 months later, there's more buzz and inquiries about Sigs. There are dozens of proud, new, excited Sig owners on GT.

It's due to opening the myopic eyes of folks who live in the land of cheap; when in reality, cheap is more expensive. Cheap tools cost you a fortune.



Enter the Bac-ster 1023.

The bastard has me in to ordering two 1911s. Zero to two in $2,800. He, along with a few other 1911ers are spending my money faster than I can make it, and they should be in jail for pimping 1911s.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Happy%20Faces/3dsmiley2.gif


So, in general, I'd say, folks should cut their whining, open their eyes and their pre-conditioned, anti-everything-that's-not-a-Glock mind; and learn from others.

I figured out a long time ago there are two kinds of snobs (a popular term around here).

"The poor snob hasn't had the stuff the rich snob has, so can't speak from experience."

Just like the clown that made the silly remark about the BMW 750 drivers.

Did I mention this is a gun forum, and 1911s are guns too?

.

Not that I disagree with any of that, I hate fanboys. My carry gun, Kel Tec P-11, easier to carry, lighter carry, easier to conceal. First love, Glock. Next love, 1911. They all serve the same purpose in different capacities and only stupid people would try to argue to say one is better when they all do the same thing, go bajng when the trigger is pulled. But I do think there are too many 1911 fanboys trying to convert the masses here at Glock Talk to 1911's. It boils down to a simple matter of preference, I prefer plastic, you prefer steel. :dunno: At the end of the day, they both put the lead where it counts.

[bac1023]

I do think there are too many 1911 fanboys trying to convert the masses here at Glock Talk to 1911's.

Nothing wrong with spreading the word about one's favorite handguns. ;)

[srothman]

Yes your first post makes you sound like an idiot.

As far as fixing it yourself. You say you bought an expensive 1911 from one of the big name brand manafacturers and it did not work out of the box. So instead of sending it back to the company that made it, and knows all about how to fix 1911's, you decided to try your hand at gunsmithing and fix it yourself. You now have an expensive 1911 that you have tried to fix yourself, and still does not work. I am not sure how this is a problem with the desing of the 1911s, or the manafacturer?

Your fist post is based off of what? Certainly not facts.

You say it is an antiquated design - Why is it that so many people who put their lives on the line to protect us choose the 1911? Others have pointed out many different examples.

You ask about the grip safety - Why did Springfield put one on the XD? There are also several other companies that use them on their guns, not just 1911's.

You ask about a certain type of magazine - How about the cheap aftermarket magazines for any of the other guns? There are lots of cheap magazines for almost all guns on the market. If my life is on the line, I want the best parts I can afford. Wilson, Novak, Cobra, Tripp, and McCormick all make good quality 1911 magazines.

Designed for ball ammo, not hollow points - Every one of my 1911's will have been fed a steady diet of hollow points, and never had a jam, of any kind. For some reason certain hollow points don't feed in certain guns, but this is true of any design, not just the 1911. Hollow points are harder to feed in any gun, not just the 1911.

Bevertail - Several other gun companies have a beavertail on their guns, not just 1911's. Sig is on that I can think of for sure.

Cannot be field stripped without a tool. I can do a field strip of almost all of my 1911's without any tools. I can completely take it apart down to almost a bare frame (except the grip bushings), with the use of only a punch.

Rust prone - How is a stainless steel 1911 any more prone to rust than any other stainless steel gun. The same can be said for a blue gun. Do you think they use a different stainless steel in a 1911, than a revolver? The finish, and metal used on 1911's is almost the exact same as all of the other guns on the market.

The 1911 is a great design, that has been around for almost 100 years, and still as poplular as ever. The 1911 is not a gun for a beginer, or someone who does not practice. It is a little harder to break down for cleaning, than most semi-auto's on the market, but it is not difficult.

There is a reason that so many SWAT departments, FBI specialists, and several others choose the 1911, when they can have any gun on the market.

Just because you have ONE 1911 that does not work, and you cannot make it work properly fixing it yourself, does not make the design as a whole bad. Try sending the gun back to the manafacturer, or taking it to a reputable gunsmith.

I own a few 1911's and all of them are 100% reliable with both ball ammo, and modern hollow points. If my life is on the line, I am going to pick one of my 1911's over any other gun I have, including Glock, Sig, and H&K.

[Cobra64]

Yes your first post makes you sound like an idiot.

As far as fixing it yourself. You say you bought an expensive 1911 from one of the big name brand manafacturers and it did not work out of the box. So instead of sending it back to the company that made it, and knows all about how to fix 1911's, you decided to try your hand at gunsmithing and fix it yourself. You now have an expensive 1911 that you have tried to fix yourself, and still does not work. I am not sure how this is a problem with the desing of the 1911s, or the manafacturer?

Your fist post is based off of what? Certainly not facts.

You say it is an antiquated design - Why is it that so many people who put their lives on the line to protect us choosed the 1911? Others have pointed out many different examples.

You ask about the grip safety - Why did Springfield put one on the XD? There are also several other companies that use them on their guns?

You ask about a certain type of magazine - How about the cheap aftermarket magazines for any of the other guns? There are lots of cheap magazines for almost all guns on the market. If my life is on the line, I want the best parts I can afford. Wilson Novak, Cobra, Tripp, and McCormick all make good quality 1911 magazines.

Designed for ball ammo, not hollow points - Every one of my 1911's will have been fed a steady diet of hollow points, and never had a jam, of any kind. For some reason certain hollow points don't feed in certain guns, but this is true of any design, not just the 1911. Hollow points are harder to feed in any gun, not just the 1911.

Bevertail - Several other gun companies have a beavertail on their guns, not just 1911's. Sig is on that I can think of for sure.

Cannot be field stripped without a tool. I can do a field strip of almost all of my 1911's without any tools. I can completely take it apart down to almost a bare frame (except the grip bushings), with the use of only a punch.

Rust prone - How is a stainless steel 1911 any more prone to rust than any other stainless steel gun. The same can be said for a blue gun. Do you think they use a different stainless steel in a 1911, than a revolver? The finish, and metal used on 1911's is almost the exact same as all of the other guns on the market.

The 1911 is a great design, that has been around for almost 100 years, and still as poplular as ever. The 1911 is not a gun for a beginer, or someone who does not practice. It is a little harder to break down for cleaning, than most semi-auto's on the market, but it is not difficult.

There is a reason that so many SWAT departments, FBI specialists, and several others choose the 1911, when they can have any gun on the market.

Just because you have ONE 1911 that does not work, and you cannot make it work properly fixing it yourself, does not make the design as a whole bad. Try sending the gun back to the manafacturer, or taking it to a reputable gunsmith.

I own a few 1911's and all of them are 100% reliable with both ball ammo, and modern hollow points. If my life is on the line, I am going to pick one of my 1911's over any other gun I have, including Glock, Sig, and H&K.

Well said srothman!

.

[Guyver]

The only thing bad that I can say, about any decent quality 1911, is they are a pain in the ***** to field strip for cleaning, and even that gets easier in time.

Mine has the 2 piece guide rod, so you may not field strip it without that Allen wrench... If I had to choose a weapon to take to the field, the 1911 would be my last choice, but, ironically, it's one of my all time favorite handguns... and my go to handgun, at the house, for HD... At least for the moment.

[triggerjerk]

Nothing like a 1911 thread to bring out class warfare on GT.

I don't see why the name-calling is necessary when the OP refrained from it.

[Cobra64]

Nothing like a 1911 thread to bring out class warfare on GT.



Good point; and thus was not surprised by this comment by NY Glock:

"The only people that buy over priced 1911's drive 7 series BWMs 20 mph under the limit with the blinker on. Their idea of a good time is opening their safe and admiring their shiney non functional 1911s."

Some 1911 folks merely responded that they don't drive 7 Series BMWs.

.

[Solid]

I can field strip my 1911s without tools...

[DonD]

No reason not to chime in. While I don't have a 1911, I have put some rounds down their tubes.

Despite having a design about 100 yrs old, a 1911 that is running properly may still be the best shooter out there, all factors considered.

Having said that, in my experience of watching and participating in IDPA and IPSC matches, I've never seen a Glock go down for other than operator error and I've seen a lot of 1911s choke.

Moving on, Clint Smith, a shooter and trainer of some renown, recently said that in all the classes he had given, he never saw a revolver quit on the shooter. So....two very old designs that are still quite relevant in more modern times! Don :cool:

[H&K .45 AUTO]

I own two 1911's. Neither of them are .45's...They're both 10mm's. My favorite is a blued Dan Wesson with a 3.25lb trigger pull that is as crisp and smooth as one can imagine. I've put quite a few rounds downrange with no failures of any kind, using hollowpoints and ball ammo.

I feed the pistol from MetalForm magazines exclusively because they feed without flaw in that gun. That Dan Wesson is the most accurate pistol I've ever fired and I either own or have owned at least one of just about everything.

The "cons" of my favorite 1911 in my opinion are as follows:

1) MINE is blued (and beautiful) so it obviously won't hold up to the elements as well as my Glocks, Sig's, etc.

2) MINE has adjustable target sights (that are spot on for range use) so it obviously isn't ideal for CCW

3) MINE is a full size government model so it doesn't conceal as well as my G33 for carry

4) MINE has a two piece, full length guide rod which requires me to use an allen wrench for field stripping. So, it's not the ideal gun for a long-term SHTF fantasy where I might have to perform emergency cleaning procedures while the zombie hordes attack (Hahaha!)

And most importantly..............

5) As an LEO... I don't make enough money to own 10 more just like it!

The fact is that I own or have owned Glocks 1911's, Sig's, H&K's, S&W's, Beretta's, etc., etc., etc. and they all serve different purposes. My G33 works wonders as a CCW/backup piece. Aside from that and my issued Sig P220R that I wear in uniform, they all fill the same role.

That role is to entertain me while I look them over, shoot them at the range, and brag to my buddies about what I have and they don't. (Yes... I'm that bad.) For those purposes, MY 1911's do as well, if not better than any of my other pistols.

I think the gunboards would be a lot better if somebody would spike the KoolAid once in a while with a different flavor than what the particular forum normally serves. That being said... Stop the hatin' and get used to the fact that the 1911 is a great pistol and isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

[FLIPPER 348]

More nonsensical ramblings by a fan of the plastic.




none of his 'cons' are based upon reality

[Forgoten214]

Good point; and thus was not surprised by this comment by NY Glock:

"The only people that buy over priced 1911's drive 7 series BWMs 20 mph under the limit with the blinker on. Their idea of a good time is opening their safe and admiring their shiney non functional 1911s."

Some 1911 folks merely responded that they don't drive 7 Series BMWs.

.

I like the S class benz better anyway.

[srothman]

I would love to see some pic's of the OP 1911. His pro's and con's list is nothing factual. About half of his pro's are based on looks, and sutff he probably reads.

"points good (whatever that means)" sounds like something someone would read, and has no actual real world experience with the 1911.

To whoever stereo typed my because I own and appreciate what a great weapon the 1911 is - actually I drive a Honda, among several other cars, that is faster than most all BMW's (and probably even Bac's Lotus). I have actually been clocked by radar at 147 mph. So no I do not drive 20 mph under the posted speed limit.

I have also driven a Mustang, and been clocked at 209 mph. Before you ask yes, this was my actual speed, and I have a print-out to proove it.

What is the fastest you have ever been?

Just because I like 1911's don't stereo-type me by how I drive, and what kind of car I drive.

[Forgoten214]

I would love to see some pic's of the OP 1911. His pro's and con's list is nothing factual. About half of his pro's are based on looks, and sutff he probably reads.

"points good (whatever that means)" sounds like something someone would read, and has no actual real world experience with the 1911.

To whoever stereo typed my because I own and appreciate what a great weapon the 1911 is - actually I drive a Honda, among several other cars, that is faster than most all BMW's (and probably even Bac's Lotus). I have actually been clocked by radar at 147 mph. So no I do not drive 20 mph under the posted speed limit.

I have also driven a Mustang, and been clocked at 209 mph. Before you ask yes, this was my actual speed, and I have a print-out to proove it.

What is the fastest you have ever been?

Just because I like 1911's don't stereo-type me by how I drive, and what kind of car I drive.

I was going 189 in a Magnacharged 1st gen Viper on an abandoned airstrip.

[Zombie Steve]

I have also driven a Mustang, and been clocked at 209 mph. Before you ask yes, this was my actual speed, and I have a print-out to proove it.

What is the fastest you have ever been?



By my math, that's only 306 feet per second. My target loads go over twice that speed out of my 1911. :tongueout: :supergrin: :tongueout:

[soundwave]

i own two 1911's. Neither of them are .45's...they're both 10mm's. My favorite is a blued dan wesson with a 3.25lb trigger pull that is as crisp and smooth as one can imagine. I've put quite a few rounds downrange with no failures of any kind, using hollowpoints and ball ammo.

I feed the pistol from metalform magazines exclusively because they feed without flaw in that gun. That dan wesson is the most accurate pistol i've ever fired and i either own or have owned at least one of just about everything.

The "cons" of my favorite 1911 in my opinion are as follows:

1) mine is blued (and beautiful) so it obviously won't hold up to the elements as well as my glocks, sig's, etc.

2) mine has adjustable target sights (that are spot on for range use) so it obviously isn't ideal for ccw

3) mine is a full size government model so it doesn't conceal as well as my g33 for carry

4) mine has a two piece, full length guide rod which requires me to use an allen wrench for field stripping. So, it's not the ideal gun for a long-term shtf fantasy where i might have to perform emergency cleaning procedures while the zombie hordes attack (hahaha!)

and most importantly..............

5) as an leo... I don't make enough money to own 10 more just like it!

The fact is that i own or have owned glocks 1911's, sig's, h&k's, s&w's, beretta's, etc., etc., etc. And they all serve different purposes. My g33 works wonders as a ccw/backup piece. Aside from that and my issued sig p220r that i wear in uniform, they all fill the same role.

That role is to entertain me while i look them over, shoot them at the range, and brag to my buddies about what i have and they don't. (yes... I'm that bad.) for those purposes, my 1911's do as well, if not better than any of my other pistols.

I think the gunboards would be a lot better if somebody would spike the koolaid once in a while with a different flavor than what the particular forum normally serves. That being said... Stop the hatin' and get used to the fact that the 1911 is a great pistol and isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

i want a 10mm 1911 bad!

[Cobra64]

i want a 10mm 1911 bad!

I think Dan Wesson is still making them.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/1911/DanWesson10mm2.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/1911/DanWesson10mm3.jpg

.

[bac1023]

I've only had my Lotus up to 140 or so. I take it pretty easy on it. My exact model was tested at 181 by Road & Track back in the day. They aren't built anymore. Plus, I've hopped mine up slightly.

The fastest I've ever been in a car was my old Porsche 944 Turbo S. That thing was chipped and modded at about 350HP. It was a fairly light car as well. I buried the 180mph speedo, so between that and speedo accuracy, I'm not sure how fast I was going.

I've had my ZX-14 up there as well. :supergrin: They get there REAL quick.

[Forgoten214]

I've only had my Lotus up to 140 or so. I take it pretty easy on it. My exact model was tested at 181 by Road & Track back in the day. They aren't built anymore. Plus, I've hopped mine up slightly.

The fastest I've ever been in a car was my old Porsche 944 Turbo S. That thing was chipped and modded at about 350HP. It was a fairly light car as well. I buried the 180mph speedo, so between that and speedo accuracy, I'm not sure how fast I was going.

I've had my ZX-14 up there as well. :supergrin: They get there REAL quick.

Oh, So that was you doing 150+ on 202 last week? :tongueout::rofl:

[bac1023]

I think Dan Wesson is still making them.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/1911/DanWesson10mm2.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/1911/DanWesson10mm3.jpg

.

Yeah, the Razorback is readily available. Fusion makes a bunch of 10mm 1911s also.

[rjm]

NOT a bottom feeder. I shoot often, compete and need my sidearm at work, everyday of every year. my experiences are my own, the above stated is my opinion and mine only. Agree, disagree, call me crazy, but insult me? WTF.

I don't believe you. Everybody I know who competes and carrys daily for work absolutely give praise to the 1911 design. At my own office, there are 6 out of 7 guys who would carry a 1911 if allowed, the one guy who won't prefers a revolver.

[rjm]

I would love to see some pic's of the OP 1911. His pro's and con's list is nothing factual. About half of his pro's are based on looks, and sutff he probably reads.

"points good (whatever that means)" sounds like something someone would read, and has no actual real world experience with the 1911.

To whoever stereo typed my because I own and appreciate what a great weapon the 1911 is - actually I drive a Honda, among several other cars, that is faster than most all BMW's (and probably even Bac's Lotus). I have actually been clocked by radar at 147 mph. So no I do not drive 20 mph under the posted speed limit.

I have also driven a Mustang, and been clocked at 209 mph. Before you ask yes, this was my actual speed, and I have a print-out to proove it.

What is the fastest you have ever been?

Just because I like 1911's don't stereo-type me by how I drive, and what kind of car I drive.



I would also like to see a picture of his $800 1911 that he claims to own, because I frankly don't believe he owns one. Why you would do your own gunsmithing on a firearm (the one single 1911 you claim to own)to fix "problems" when you obviously are unfamiliar with the design is crazy. Most of the con points that you so eloquently pointed out are not factual and seem to be coming from the computer of a person who has read a bit too much internet chat regarding the 1911 and does not have personal experience with a quality model.

BTW, I drive a Nissan Sentra but I have driven motorcycles much, much faster.:embarassed:

[rjm]

The Browning M2 machine gun is also an "old" design that is still being used quite effectively. So is the B52 bomber, Chinook helicopter and C130.

[Idontplaynice]

I love 1911s.

I wouldn't have a problem trusting one for self defense.

[oldnoob]

I don't own a single 1911. Not because they aren't any good, I just can't shoot them as well as my G22. A buddy of mine can shoot as well if not better with his Para but can't make a decent group with my glock.
Plastic gun, metal gun, it don't matter. If you can shoot well with it, it's a good gun.

[just for fun]

That's the problem, you have to shell out $ for a quality 1911 that everybody and their dog copies and tries to make better that the original, when you can only buy one Glock, no copies made because they make the best. :whistling: I thought somebody already told you to go back to general glocking, have a glass of Cool Aid. There you can praise each other on how smart you are to buy a plastic heirloom!:rofl:

[bac1023]

That's the problem, you have to shell out $ for a quality 1911 that everybody and their dog copies and tries to make better that the original, when you can only buy one Glock, no copies made because they make the best. :whistling:

Actually people copy Glocks all the time. Its just that they try to improve the looks as well. :rofl:

[srothman]

I have a Honda S2000 that dyno's out at 560 hp at the rear wheels. When I was clocked at 147 it was about 1/3 of the way down the straight away (the finish line) at Gateway International Raceway, right out of the last banked turn, and I was still accelerating. The car will probably top out around 190 with the way it is currently geared. It does not have a true overdrive or 6th gear, it does not really serve a purpose on road racing. The car with it's current setup will run 8.60's with its current configuration. I have also raced it at Mid-Ohio, and a few other closed track events. I use to do a lot of teaching, media days, and working with law enforcement.

The car that I ran 209 mpg was done in the 1/4 mile, in 6.57 :wow: .

The car has over 1800 hp, and is capable of running 6.0's at 230 mph. When I ran it was plenty fast for me, I cannot imagine what it is like racing the top fuel dragsters, or funny cars. I don't know of many motorcycles that can run this fast, and even fewer riders capable of doing it.

I am thinking about selling the Honda and buying some type of formula race car.

My motorcycle is a Yamaha cruiser. I have only had it up to about 110 mph. One of these days I will try running it on the drag strip just to see what it can do.

To Bac - why don't you drive the car, and drive it fast. It was what these cars were designed to do. They were meant to be driven, and fast. Very similar to the 1911.

So no, just because I like 1911's, I don't drive a BMW, and do not drive 20 mph under the speed limit. Maybe over, but never under.

It is similar to my 1911's. It is a great design of a gun, and meant to be used. I use all of my 1911's and have never had one let me down yet. It is a great design.

The 1911 is not for everyone. Especially beginners, and people who do not practice with the gun.

To the OP - I would still love to see pictures of your 1911. Also curious what is wrong with it, and why it is not reliable. You have said you have one, and that it is not reliable. What 1911 is it, and why is it not reliable.

The 1911 is a gun for enthusiasts and meant to be shot.

[vrex]

Yes your first post makes you sound like an idiot.

As far as fixing it yourself. You say you bought an expensive 1911 from one of the big name brand manafacturers and it did not work out of the box. So instead of sending it back to the company that made it, and knows all about how to fix 1911's, you decided to try your hand at gunsmithing and fix it yourself. You now have an expensive 1911 that you have tried to fix yourself, and still does not work. I am not sure how this is a problem with the desing of the 1911s, or the manafacturer?

Your fist post is based off of what? Certainly not facts.

You say it is an antiquated design - Why is it that so many people who put their lives on the line to protect us choose the 1911? Others have pointed out many different examples.

You ask about the grip safety - Why did Springfield put one on the XD? There are also several other companies that use them on their guns, not just 1911's.

You ask about a certain type of magazine - How about the cheap aftermarket magazines for any of the other guns? There are lots of cheap magazines for almost all guns on the market. If my life is on the line, I want the best parts I can afford. Wilson, Novak, Cobra, Tripp, and McCormick all make good quality 1911 magazines.

Designed for ball ammo, not hollow points - Every one of my 1911's will have been fed a steady diet of hollow points, and never had a jam, of any kind. For some reason certain hollow points don't feed in certain guns, but this is true of any design, not just the 1911. Hollow points are harder to feed in any gun, not just the 1911.

Bevertail - Several other gun companies have a beavertail on their guns, not just 1911's. Sig is on that I can think of for sure.

Cannot be field stripped without a tool. I can do a field strip of almost all of my 1911's without any tools. I can completely take it apart down to almost a bare frame (except the grip bushings), with the use of only a punch.

Rust prone - How is a stainless steel 1911 any more prone to rust than any other stainless steel gun. The same can be said for a blue gun. Do you think they use a different stainless steel in a 1911, than a revolver? The finish, and metal used on 1911's is almost the exact same as all of the other guns on the market.

The 1911 is a great design, that has been around for almost 100 years, and still as poplular as ever. The 1911 is not a gun for a beginer, or someone who does not practice. It is a little harder to break down for cleaning, than most semi-auto's on the market, but it is not difficult.

There is a reason that so many SWAT departments, FBI specialists, and several others choose the 1911, when they can have any gun on the market.

Just because you have ONE 1911 that does not work, and you cannot make it work properly fixing it yourself, does not make the design as a whole bad. Try sending the gun back to the manafacturer, or taking it to a reputable gunsmith.

I own a few 1911's and all of them are 100% reliable with both ball ammo, and modern hollow points. If my life is on the line, I am going to pick one of my 1911's over any other gun I have, including Glock, Sig, and H&K.


I run a Glock34 in USPSA and IDPA, Warren tacticals with wither a fiber optic front or black serrated. I have had 2 fte's in about 3,000 rounds. A failure of any kind sucks whether rationalized or not.
I carry a Glock 30, I have never had a failure with it and when slow firing it is one of the most accurate pistols of any caliber I have ever fired.
I also have a G21, and a Beretta 92fs (civilian M9) which has never failed me one single time in about 5,000 rounds, and is a great, great pistol.
I do my homework, I shoot a lot. It is my favorite hobby by far and really enjoyable. I have several close friends that run 1911's in single stack. They work good, but have their issues. my post was to simply get a reaction (which I did) to evoke a passionate discussion. I want to see what the attraction is. I will tell you this, the forum 1911 owners have far more reliable pistols than the 1911's I have seen.
As far as "posting" a picture of my 1911, why would that make my story any more credible? By me stating whether my gun is a springfield, kimber, para, smith...etc would just be moot. it's the design I wanted to discuss. I broke down and got a 1911 because I WANTED one. I like Glocks and lots of other weapons but only have the wallet for a few. My stipulations for ownership is reliability and parts availability, along with repute. I KNOW THE 1911 has a long history of good service, but it is MY experience both obeserved and first person that the have a tendency to stovepipe and jam often, and I am a fan of modern high capacity, which I think is important. Will I get my 1911 running well? More than likely. Will it accompany me to every range session I shoot .45? Of course. I stand firm in what I said in my first post. As I said, they are my observations based on my experiences. Everyone with intelligent feedback on this forum I consider a peer and would rather read good feedback agreeing or disagreeing with what I wrote for my own benefit and education on the subject.
Thanks

[bac1023]

To Bac - why don't you drive the car, and drive it fast. It was what these cars were designed to do. They were meant to be driven, and fast. Very similar to the 1911.




Well, I have my bikes for that. :supergrin:

Seriously, I just enjoy cruising it. However, I do drive it aggressively as well, just not flat out as far as top speed is concerned.

[srothman]

One of your pro's is "points good (whatever that means)". How can you list something as a pro, when you do not even know what it means. It makes it sound like you copied something that you read?

You say it is un-reliable, and jams. What type of malfunctions are they? What is it doing that makes it un-reliable?

You say "my post was to simply get a reaction" - That makes you a TROLL!

[bac1023]

I My motorcycle is a Yamaha cruiser. I have only had it up to about 110 mph. One of these days I will try running it on the drag strip just to see what it can do.



I'm thinking seriously about getting out of the sportbike scene and picking up a cruiser. I guess I'm getting old. My back and shoulders don't like that riding position anymore at all.

[bac1023]

You say "my post was to simply get a reaction" - That makes you a TROLL!

Yeah, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. :whistling:

[Cobra64]

Yeah, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. :whistling:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Cartoons/NailedIt.jpg


.

[srothman]

I'm thinking seriously about getting out of the sportbike scene and picking up a cruiser. I guess I'm getting old. My back and shoulders don't like that riding position anymore at all.

That is the reason I bought a cruiser. My back would not take extended rides on the sport bikes. They are a lot of fun, but I cannot ride long distances, or for extended periods of time.

Also my girlfriend likes going for a ride with me, and two up on a sport bike is not the best.

[NY Glock]

[QUOTE=Cobra64;11373896]Ah, the class envy guy is back from NY with the 11# NYC Glock trigger.

Actually I have a BMW and one of these:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Cars/CobraPRR2.jpg


I have to admit the Cobra is sweet. :drool:

Oh and it's the NY1 trigger on my G27. :supergrin:

[bac1023]

two up on a sport bike is not the best.

Its terrible.

[NY Glock]

I think Dan Wesson is still making them.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/1911/DanWesson10mm2.jpg



.

Yes, I was going to but one from Bud's when they had it for $800.00 but I picked up this 10mm instead.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m198/nnikos31/004.jpg

[NY Glock]

One of your pro's is "points good (whatever that means)". How can you list something as a pro, when you do not even know what it means. It makes it sound like you copied something that you read?

You say it is un-reliable, and jams. What type of malfunctions are they? What is it doing that makes it un-reliable?

You say "my post was to simply get a reaction" - That makes you a TROLL!

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m198/nnikos31/kool-aid.gif

Honda :rofl:

[bac1023]

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m198/nnikos31/kool-aid.gif

Honda :rofl:

Hondas are great cars. Very reliable.

When I was younger, I had a Civic with 330,000 miles.

[vrex]

One of your pro's is "points good (whatever that means)". How can you list something as a pro, when you do not even know what it means. It makes it sound like you copied something that you read?

You say it is un-reliable, and jams. What type of malfunctions are they? What is it doing that makes it un-reliable?

You say "my post was to simply get a reaction" - That makes you a TROLL!

Been here a long time, not a troll. "points good" whatever that means is the hogwash of the "ergonomics" craze. That is what I also hear many people say of the 1911...it points so naturally. Does it? I guess so, so that's a pro.

I have witnessed stovepipes and Fte's and had them myself. Don't act like stuff like this has never been written. Do a google search on "1911 malfunctions" You are acting like I am the first to ever comment on this, how ridiculous. Does it even matter to you that I like and own one? No. I have to think it is perfect like you, or you are going to whine, cry, and insult.

Fine, the 1911 NEVER jams, it's perfect with any ammo and magazine, The grip saftey is awesome, one more round than a revolver in an autloader is fine. It's the best gun of all time no other gun will even come close and to it, and it makes anyone who touches its perfect trigger a far better shooter. To even suggest otherwise is blasphemy.

[NY Glock]

Hondas are great cars. Very reliable.

When I was younger, I had a Civic with 330,000 miles.

Yeah, for basic transportation, but did you read the Fast & Furious crap he posted? Too funny!!!

I had a 5.0 Camaro that had 220,000 miles of hard NYC street (pot hole) racing. I really miss that car. :crying:

[srothman]

Yeah, for basic transportation, but did you read the Fast & Furious crap he posted? Too funny!!!

I had a 5.0 Camaro that had 220,000 miles of hard NYC street (pot hole) racing. I really miss that car. :crying:

No not Fast and Furious crap, I do real racing on the track. I also use to teach law enforcement officers high speed driving and tactics.

No difference than having a custom gunsmith build a 1911. Take something that is great, and turn it into an incredible piece of machinery.

[skud_dusty]

I have a Honda S2000 that dyno's out at 560 hp at the rear wheels. When I was clocked at 147 it was about 1/3 of the way down the straight away (the finish line) at Gateway International Raceway, right out of the last banked turn, and I was still accelerating. The car will probably top out around 190 with the way it is currently geared. It does not have a true overdrive or 6th gear, it does not really serve a purpose on road racing. The car with it's current setup will run 8.60's with its current configuration. I have also raced it at Mid-Ohio, and a few other closed track events. I use to do a lot of teaching, media days, and working with law enforcement.

The car that I ran 209 mpg was done in the 1/4 mile, in 6.57 :wow: .

The car has over 1800 hp, and is capable of running 6.0's at 230 mph. When I ran it was plenty fast for me, I cannot imagine what it is like racing the top fuel dragsters, or funny cars. I don't know of many motorcycles that can run this fast, and even fewer riders capable of doing it.

I am thinking about selling the Honda and buying some type of formula race car.

My motorcycle is a Yamaha cruiser. I have only had it up to about 110 mph. One of these days I will try running it on the drag strip just to see what it can do.

To Bac - why don't you drive the car, and drive it fast. It was what these cars were designed to do. They were meant to be driven, and fast. Very similar to the 1911.

So no, just because I like 1911's, I don't drive a BMW, and do not drive 20 mph under the speed limit. Maybe over, but never under.

It is similar to my 1911's. It is a great design of a gun, and meant to be used. I use all of my 1911's and have never had one let me down yet. It is a great design.

The 1911 is not for everyone. Especially beginners, and people who do not practice with the gun.

To the OP - I would still love to see pictures of your 1911. Also curious what is wrong with it, and why it is not reliable. You have said you have one, and that it is not reliable. What 1911 is it, and why is it not reliable.

The 1911 is a gun for enthusiasts and meant to be shot.

What transmission and rear end are you using in your S2K? I've got a friend that has a ~350hp low boost turbo setup for a little less than a year and he's on his 3rd transmission. He's worried the diff won't hold up much longer either. He isn't overly abusive with the car, the components just don't seem to hold the extra power well.

[Cobra64]

What transmission and rear end are you using in your S2K? I've got a friend that has a ~350hp low boost turbo setup for a little less than a year and he's on his 3rd transmission. He's worried the diff won't hold up much longer either. He isn't overly abusive with the car, the components just don't seem to hold the extra power well.

That's not an unusual mistake people make juicing up the horsepower in a car not designed for the torque. They forget the drivetrain, and the other parts like cooling , suspension, and how to make it stop (brakes).

.

[srothman]

None of the drive train is stock. I burned out the factory clutch at 11,000 miles, and that was when the engine was stock. The car as it is set up from the factory will not hold up, especially when any work had been done to increase performance. Most of the parts on my car are custom pieces that were built up to take the extra power.

A lot of the parts on my car are parts designed for race cars, and modified to fit my car.

When you add the extra horsepower, something will give. It is just a matter of how long, and what.

You can either replace it all at once, or wait until it breaks. Just know that if you up the horsepower, eventually almost the entire drive train will need to be replaced/upgraded.

This is true of most cars. The manafacturer designs it to hold up to the power it creates, and maybe a little more. When you really start adding the power, things will break.

[Southpaw69]

I really don't want to blast any particular makes online, that is not my intention. let's just say it is from a reputable manufacturer and was at about the 800 dollar price point. I have not seen in action any of the high end 1911's.

I own a Kimber that was a problem out of the box. I was pretty turned off to 1911s because of it. There are a couple well known and common issues they have that are easily fixable. Now that it's tuned properly it has been solid and become my favorite pistol.

I don't know what you have, but chances are, it can become just as reliable as anything. You just need to understand whats causing the malfunctions and address them...or get it back to the manufacturer or a good gunsmith.

[Cobra64]

I own a Kimber that was a problem out of the box. I was pretty turned off to 1911s because of it. There are a couple well known and common issues they have that are easily fixable. Now that it's tuned properly it has been solid and become my favorite pistol.

I don't know what you have, but chances are, it can become just as reliable as anything. You just need to understand whats causing the malfunctions and address them...or get it back to the manufacturer or a good gunsmith.

From what I've seen with others' pistols FTF/FTE is that they are generally filthy, no slide lubrication and cheap, underpowered ammo in a new gun.

The innards of my guns look like this after a range session:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/Sig%20Sauer%20Guns/Marks%20Sigs/P220/P1000918.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/Sig%20Sauer%20Guns/Marks%20Sigs/P220/P1000924.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/Sig%20Sauer%20Guns/Marks%20Sigs/P220/P1000922.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/Sig%20Sauer%20Guns/Marks%20Sigs/P220/P1000923.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/Sig%20Sauer%20Guns/Marks%20Sigs/P220/P1000919.jpg

I always take a dozen rounds of hot ammo like Fiocchi or some +P with me to illustrate to others that ammo is often the culprit.

.

[isis07734]

Wow, you guys get pretty insulting when someone bashes the 1911 eh? Big suprise I guess.

[Cobra64]

Wow, you guys get pretty insulting when someone bashes the 1911 eh? Big suprise I guess.Huh? We was jus talkin' bout cars and stuff; and cleanin' gunz.

.

[FLIPPER 348]

Wow, you guys get pretty insulting when someone bashes the 1911 eh? Big suprise I guess.


it's funny that 1911 fans never feel the 'need' to bash Glock fans though


..........1911 fans are sorta like Mac fans I guess

[Cobra64]

it's funny that 1911 fans never feel the 'need' to bash Glock fans though

..........1911 fans are sorta like Mac fans I guess

The OP's snitty sarcastic attitude set himself up for repercussions and consequences.

Here's an anlogy: If some ass-breath walked into my house and made snide comments about my Karastan wool carpet, I'd tell him to go home and play with some puszy ... in the litter box.

The follow on comment from the class envy clown about the BMW led to car discussions.

1911 guys are prolific and dynamic. We don't pray to the Gaston god. We just like guns, and all of us own at least one Glock. I would say that I think that the 1911 has a bit of a cult following, and some even buy $3,000 Les Baers that come in a cardboard box. But who cares?

.

[SVTNate]

Magazines, people who read gun magazines, people who know a little about guns and claim to know a lot,and even those who really know a lot, love, or rather, are obsessed with the 1911. It's never-ending. It never stops...why I ask....WHY!??????



First, the cons, these are my cons, coming from my opinions and experiences, and are not general cons:

-Antiquated design
-grip safety...really?
-You need to or should buy a certain type of magazine (Wilson) to hope it functions properly.
-Most do not function properly a good portion of the time, in fact I have never seen one go over a few hundred rounds without a malfunction. Contest after contest I watch them stovepipe and FTE. I've never personally seen one that functions 100% ever.
-Designed for ball ammo, not modern hollowpoints
-7-8 rounds? Really? A big step in modern firearms is mag capacity which means everything. Yes, everything when meaning something matters.

-Beavertail. yes, beavertail. Something to snag and poke your palm when you reach for it, and standardize how close to the bore you can grab your pistolo, which any seasoned shooter will tell you is important for fast follow-ups.
-Cannot be field stripped without a tool
-Rust prone, and tend to bind up and hold dirt fast when not cleaned often
-My father who was a Marine in Vietnam and is NOT a gun fan (so I get an unbiased opinion) told me, and only when I asked him, that his and others m1911's jammed often. I believe him.

Call me silly, but it's 2008. When guns jam it makes me vomit, and turns me off to them. Modern autoloaders rarely jam, the good ones at least. In a tool that only has one function is that not important? it would be like a tire that does not roll, or a pen that writes only once in a while.

The 1911 gets a "bye" in that dept. though. Why? Because it was designed a 100 friggin years ago, that's why! it was the first of it's kind, and great, it was and still is. However, we don't see model T's on the highway do we? Imagine someone trying to tinker a model T with goodyear tires, a modern transmission, disc brakes, modern doors, airbags,,,etc. Would it still be a model T? Or would it be a representation of one attempting to be modernized, but still lacking the modern engineering advances. Even then, would the model T be as good as a stripped down 2008 Toyota? Think about it.

Let's not forget though, It looks COOL.

I will address everything.

1. Design - Yes, it's an old design. How is any newer design better in function? Keep reading.

2. Grip Safety - I fail to see the problem. I train with and carry 1911's. It's never been an issue. I can take or leave grip safeties, but I don't mind them at all.

3. Your logic depends on the false assumption that 1911's are made by one company. Many companies make them, and make the parts. Some parts are better than others. How many people carry aftermarket Glock mags in their duty or CCW guns? Exactly. Some mags made for Glocks are junk. You overlooked it because Glock makes Glock mags, and 99% of people just stick to those. There are hundreds of 1911 makers and lots of 1911 mag makers. Like Glock, some mags designed for the 1911 are junk, some are not. Same goes for AR15's, right? Use USGI or PMags. There are lots of other cheap non-USGI spec mags made that you or I wouldn't trust, is that a disadvantage of the AR platform? Of course not!

4. Yes, they can be field stripped without a tool, depending on how they're fitted. Mine cannot be field stripped without a tool. I don't care. It's never been an issue.

5. Rust prone? That's just a flat-out lie. 1911's aren't made of some secret metal that rusts more than metal used for other guns. I clean my 1911's with Simple Green and hot water, and have never seen rust on any of them. They can malfunction when simple maintenance is neglected? That's stating the obvious. I've seen it happen to Glocks and other semiautos in training courses, too.

6. Sucks to be you, I guess. I've owned many 1911's and all but one (which was a Wilson KZ-45, not a real 1911 design) have been 100% flawless in function over thousands of rounds. Then again, I don't buy junk, either, and I keep my guns properly cleaned and lubed.

7. Your father's 1911 has nothing in common with the ones I own. The first M16's issued for Vietnam were junk, too. That doesn't mean the Stoner AR platform is inherently bad. The only thing the GI issued guns had in common with the 1911's I own are the fact that they're both referred to as 1911's and share the same basic platform. To say they're comparable is pretty ridiculous. Quality of parts, fitment, quality of mags, quality of ammo, etc. is light years beyond the old guns.

8. All that said, your Model T analogy makes no sense. I own Glocks, HK USP's, Sigs, Berettas, and lots of other guns. I like them very much. However, capacity aside, there is nothing any of those other guns do better than a 1911. A 1911 is faster in my hands in a defensive shoot, it's more accurate, with a better trigger, shorter trigger reset than most other guns, more concealable, just as reliable, etc. You stated that a gun has one purpose - to shoot. That's overly simplistic, but okay, I'll play along. If the things that constitute the action of shooting are as good or better with a 1911, as I have described, than you have asserted nothing of value in your lambasting of 1911's.

1911's do have disadvantages that I have experienced, but they are minor to me. One, a proper 1911, by virtue of the old design, must be expensive. They were designed when a pistol was commonly fitted by hand. I do not believe the design lends itself well to mass production, therefore a good one is going to be expensive. Aside from a Colt, I don't trust anything that generally costs under $1500 new. The weight is also an issue for CCW, somewhat, but I do not carry a full size 1911. Also, by virtue of the design, the smaller you make a 1911, the more sensitive it is to mag and ammo selection, but my custom Colt Defender runs great and it's an alloy frame on top of being an Officer's model. It's hand built by skilled gunsmiths, runs on Wilson mags and Ranger-T or Federal HST ammo... just like the rest of my 1911's.

And before any mouth breather wants to deconstruct my post based upon assumptions about me, I am a Glock fan, I am only 28 years old, have zero nostalgia for the 1911, and I do not drive a 7 Series BMW (although I do have a BMW).

[SVTNate]

Oh, and as I typed these two posts, beside me is a Glock 21 SF with a SureFire x300 light and 13+1 rounds of 230gr. Federal HST :)

But I carried my custom Colt Defender all day :)

[Forgoten214]

I hate MAC computers, All Apple products should be boycotted.

[skud_dusty]

That's not an unusual mistake people make juicing up the horsepower in a car not designed for the torque. They forget the drivetrain, and the other parts like cooling , suspension, and how to make it stop (brakes).

.

At first he thought the "little" extra power wouldn't have been a big deal (he did upgrade the clutch and PP) but obviously it was a little too much :P

None of the drive train is stock. I burned out the factory clutch at 11,000 miles, and that was when the engine was stock. The car as it is set up from the factory will not hold up, especially when any work had been done to increase performance. Most of the parts on my car are custom pieces that were built up to take the extra power.

A lot of the parts on my car are parts designed for race cars, and modified to fit my car.

When you add the extra horsepower, something will give. It is just a matter of how long, and what.

You can either replace it all at once, or wait until it breaks. Just know that if you up the horsepower, eventually almost the entire drive train will need to be replaced/upgraded.

This is true of most cars. The manafacturer designs it to hold up to the power it creates, and maybe a little more. When you really start adding the power, things will break.

He's been looking for a better solution than what he's found so far. I'll pass along the info, thanks!

[Wraith]

I thought somebody already told you to go back to general glocking, have a glass of Cool Aid. There you can praise each other on how smart you are to buy a plastic heirloom!:rofl:

:rofl:Good one. And this thread gets the same reponses that every other thread like it gets. You and bac1023 can go back into your den and stroke your 1911's telling yourself it's the best gun in the world. :rofl: The 1911 is a good gun, I never disputed that, I like Glocks better, I think that's clear. But ask what 1911 to buy on GT and everyone says you have to spend $600 and up for a "good" one. Ask what Glock to buy and it comes down to what caliber to buy.:dunno:

[Forgoten214]

http://www.cravingsfactory.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/Mega%20Movie%20Basket%20sm.jpg

[srothman]

At first he thought the "little" extra power wouldn't have been a big deal (he did upgrade the clutch and PP) but obviously it was a little too much :P



He's been looking for a better solution than what he's found so far. I'll pass along the info, thanks!


Is he running a super-charger, or turbo-charger? What kind of boost is he pushing?

Is he running any type of inter-cooler for the system?

My advice would be to drop the boost, and keep the hp under 300 maybe up to 310. From what I have seen, this is where the S2000 starts having problems from being over-powered.

If not be prepared to spend a lot of money to keep it running.

To those of you who are giving us trouble about what we say-

When was the last time we started a thread about what an idiot Gaston is, and that the Glock is a POS? I am not saying either, I own a few Glocks, I just prefer the 1911, over the Glock.

When people spew out these lies and mis-information, it gets corrected quickly. What if someone were thinking about buying a 1911, and we ignored this post, and someone thought everything on his list was true?

This guy admitted he did it just to get a reaction, which makes him a TROLL!

Now back to the cars. Bac I think you are missing out if you don't take your Lotus to a track day. There are several different ones where you go out with an instructor, and really learn how to drive the car, and push it to its limits. The best part is it is on a track, so no speed limits to worry about.

A car like that needs to be "exercised" on the track. It is what it was designed for.

[soundwave]

I think Dan Wesson is still making them.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/1911/DanWesson10mm2.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/1911/DanWesson10mm3.jpg

.

Very nice!!!

[skud_dusty]

Is he running a super-charger, or turbo-charger? What kind of boost is he pushing?

Is he running any type of inter-cooler for the system?

My advice would be to drop the boost, and keep the hp under 300 maybe up to 310. From what I have seen, this is where the S2000 starts having problems from being over-powered.

If not be prepared to spend a lot of money to keep it running.

To those of you who are giving us trouble about what we say-

When was the last time we started a thread about what an idiot Gaston is, and that the Glock is a POS? I am not saying either, I own a few Glocks, I just prefer the 1911, over the Glock.

When people spew out these lies and mis-information, it gets corrected quickly. What if someone were thinking about buying a 1911, and we ignored this post, and someone thought everything on his list was true?

This guy admitted he did it just to get a reaction, which makes him a TROLL!

Now back to the cars. Bac I think you are missing out if you don't take your Lotus to a track day. There are several different ones where you go out with an instructor, and really learn how to drive the car, and push it to its limits. The best part is it is on a track, so no speed limits to worry about.

A car like that needs to be "exercised" on the track. It is what it was designed for.

It's a smallish turbo at 10psi? Sorry I don't have exacts on it, I want to say 14bish? in size. I'm not too familiar with the car, I do know it is intercooled. It's just a standard air to air unit. I do appreciate the info, I'll try to get ahold of him and pass on the info. Thank you!

[Zombie Steve]

The Glock 17 was adopted by the Austrian Army in 1982.

Wheeew! Over a quarter century old. Isn't there a more modern, less antiquated design one could latch on to? :whistling:

[srothman]

A lot will depend on the size turbo he is using. While some turbos will spool up faster, on low boost, it also increases torque a whole lot. A lot of this will depend on what size turbo he is using.

Another problem could be from when the turbo is actually engaging. When the turbo kicks in and starts generating boost, it can sometimes create a surge in power. This jolt can also cause problems.

Another issue with the S2000 is that it is a VTEC (variable timing) engine. Depending on when the boost kicks in, and the VTEC engages, if both are not working well together it can create problems. They make fairly simple engine management systems that allow you to control at what point the VTEC engages on the engine.

While the S2000 puts out 240 hp from the factory, torque is about 120. I would guess that the problem with his engine is not with the hp, but with the torque, and when it engages.

I would recommend finding a specialist with VTEC engines, and having them adjust the system. Someone should be able to properly tune the engine, and not blow it apart with the correct amount of boost.

[vrex]

I will address everything.

1. Design - Yes, it's an old design. How is any newer design better in function? Keep reading.

2. Grip Safety - I fail to see the problem. I train with and carry 1911's. It's never been an issue. I can take or leave grip safeties, but I don't mind them at all.

3. Your logic depends on the false assumption that 1911's are made by one company. Many companies make them, and make the parts. Some parts are better than others. How many people carry aftermarket Glock mags in their duty or CCW guns? Exactly. Some mags made for Glocks are junk. You overlooked it because Glock makes Glock mags, and 99% of people just stick to those. There are hundreds of 1911 makers and lots of 1911 mag makers. Like Glock, some mags designed for the 1911 are junk, some are not. Same goes for AR15's, right? Use USGI or PMags. There are lots of other cheap non-USGI spec mags made that you or I wouldn't trust, is that a disadvantage of the AR platform? Of course not!

4. Yes, they can be field stripped without a tool, depending on how they're fitted. Mine cannot be field stripped without a tool. I don't care. It's never been an issue.

5. Rust prone? That's just a flat-out lie. 1911's aren't made of some secret metal that rusts more than metal used for other guns. I clean my 1911's with Simple Green and hot water, and have never seen rust on any of them. They can malfunction when simple maintenance is neglected? That's stating the obvious. I've seen it happen to Glocks and other semiautos in training courses, too.

6. Sucks to be you, I guess. I've owned many 1911's and all but one (which was a Wilson KZ-45, not a real 1911 design) have been 100% flawless in function over thousands of rounds. Then again, I don't buy junk, either, and I keep my guns properly cleaned and lubed.

7. Your father's 1911 has nothing in common with the ones I own. The first M16's issued for Vietnam were junk, too. That doesn't mean the Stoner AR platform is inherently bad. The only thing the GI issued guns had in common with the 1911's I own are the fact that they're both referred to as 1911's and share the same basic platform. To say they're comparable is pretty ridiculous. Quality of parts, fitment, quality of mags, quality of ammo, etc. is light years beyond the old guns.

8. All that said, your Model T analogy makes no sense. I own Glocks, HK USP's, Sigs, Berettas, and lots of other guns. I like them very much. However, capacity aside, there is nothing any of those other guns do better than a 1911. A 1911 is faster in my hands in a defensive shoot, it's more accurate, with a better trigger, shorter trigger reset than most other guns, more concealable, just as reliable, etc. You stated that a gun has one purpose - to shoot. That's overly simplistic, but okay, I'll play along. If the things that constitute the action of shooting are as good or better with a 1911, as I have described, than you have asserted nothing of value in your lambasting of 1911's.

1911's do have disadvantages that I have experienced, but they are minor to me. One, a proper 1911, by virtue of the old design, must be expensive. They were designed when a pistol was commonly fitted by hand. I do not believe the design lends itself well to mass production, therefore a good one is going to be expensive. Aside from a Colt, I don't trust anything that generally costs under $1500 new. The weight is also an issue for CCW, somewhat, but I do not carry a full size 1911. Also, by virtue of the design, the smaller you make a 1911, the more sensitive it is to mag and ammo selection, but my custom Colt Defender runs great and it's an alloy frame on top of being an Officer's model. It's hand built by skilled gunsmiths, runs on Wilson mags and Ranger-T or Federal HST ammo... just like the rest of my 1911's.

And before any mouth breather wants to deconstruct my post based upon assumptions about me, I am a Glock fan, I am only 28 years old, have zero nostalgia for the 1911, and I do not drive a 7 Series BMW (although I do have a BMW).


That's an excellent response. Although i don't agree with a lot of what you said, you have some very good points in there. The Wilson KZ-45 is a very cool gun, I have shot one but do not consider that a true 1911 as you don't.

My model T analogy makes perfect sense. J.M Browning created the 1911 which is the most well-known of Browning's designs to use the short recoil principle in its basic design. Besides the pistol being widely copied itself, this operating system rose to become the pre-eminent type of the 20th century and of nearly all modern centerfire pistols. Check out this excerpt:

Due to an increased demand for M1911 pistols among Army Spec Ops units, who are known to field a variety of 1911 pistols, the Army Marksmanship Unit began looking to develop a new generation of M1911s and launched the M1911-A2 project in late 2004. The goal was to produce a minimum of seven variants with various sights, internal and external extractors, flat and arched mainspring housings, integral and add-on magazine wells, a variety of finishes and other options, with the idea of providing the end-user a selection from which to select the features that best fit their missions. The AMU performed a well received demonstration of the first group of pistols to the Marine Corps at Quantico and various Spec Ops units and Ft. Bragg and other locations. The project provided a feasibility study with insight into future projects. Models were loaned to various Spec Ops units, the results of which are classified. An RFP was issued for a Joint Combat Pistol but it was ultimately canceled. Currently units are experimenting with a 1911 platform in .40 which will incorporate lessons learned from the 1911 A2 project. Ultimately, the 1911 A2 project provided a test bed for improving existing 1911s. Perhaps we will see development of an improved 1911 variant in the near future.

There has been talk for years as well of a possible "2011" variant coming out. The pistols we all enjoy today are variants of the original and possibly the greatest autoloader of all time. That being said, and choose to believe me or not, the original M1911 was made to

1. Shoot ball ammo, 7 rounds, 230 grain
2. Fit perfectly the average man's hand, and since the average man was 5'6 in 1911, logic might dictate his hands were smaller.
3. I have read that it was designed to be pointed with one hand, in fact all early century training footage shows it being fired this way
4. The added grip saftey was intended to add another precaution for it's young and often undertrained operators.

I implied that the 1911 had a great appeal to people who might know little of it's history to the fact that it's current incarnation's are extremely pleasing to the eye, especailly to your average guy who really does not know a whole lot, other than people will think he's really cool for having a badass .45 I don't group the people posting on here as average knowledge fans, which is why i wanted the input.

I still believe that the newer 1911's have issues . I hate the beavertail and the grip saftley, the feedramp is very steep and mags can be "finicky" when feeding greater than 7 rounds. I will enjoy seeing it perfected even more in years to come, but I stand firm in my opinions


Oh, and, I can assure you, it does not suck to be me.

[Cobra64]

The Glock 17 was adopted by the Austrian Army in 1982.

Wheeew! Over a quarter century old. Isn't there a more modern, less antiquated design one could latch on to? :whistling:

Despite all the conversation here, I'm stickin' with my tried and true Jules Verne Mark IV:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/V_Mongoose3_400b.jpg



And the Mark XII collector series:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/FMOMBox_500w.jpg


.

[srothman]

There has been talk for years as well of a possible "2011" variant coming out. The pistols we all enjoy today are variants of the original and possibly the greatest autoloader of all time. That being said, and choose to believe me or not, the original M1911 was made to

1. Shoot ball ammo, 7 rounds, 230 grain
2. Fit perfectly the average man's hand, and since the average man was 5'6 in 1911, logic might dictate his hands were smaller.
3. I have read that it was designed to be pointed with one hand, in fact all early century training footage shows it being fired this way
4. The added grip saftey was intended to add another precaution for it's young and often undertrained operators.

I implied that the 1911 had a great appeal to people who might know little of it's history to the fact that it's current incarnation's are extremely pleasing to the eye, especailly to your average guy who really does not know a whole lot, other than people will think he's really cool for having a badass .45 I don't group the people posting on here as average knowledge fans, which is why i wanted the input.

I still believe that the newer 1911's have issues . I hate the beavertail and the grip saftley, the feedramp is very steep and mags can be "finicky" when feeding greater than 7 rounds. I will enjoy seeing it perfected even more in years to come, but I stand firm in my opinions


Oh, and, I can assure you, it does not suck