I'm in a dispute with my landlord...Advice?

[HavinaPretzel]

Here’s the background: Since March 2005, I’ve been renting a townhouse from a large real estate firm in my area. According to my lease, rent is due by the 5th of each month, and if the 5th should fall on a weekend, it has to be there when the rental office opens the following Monday, or a 10% late fee will be charged. (There’s a mail slot on the office door for rent paid on weekends) My rent has been late exactly once since I’ve lived here – I misread the lease to say rent could be paid on the following Monday (as in, say, that afternoon); the lady at the office corrected me, and I paid the late fee without complaint since the mistake was mine. That was a while ago, and I’ve dropped off my rent check (always in a sealed envelope) several times since then without a problem, until now.

I put my rent check through the mail Monday morning a few minutes after 8 AM, and well before the office opens at 8:30. When I came home that evening, I had a notice on my door saying my rent was overdue and that I owe them for both rent and the late fee; I called to find out what was going on but the office had closed for the day.

This morning, the rental office lady called me to say that she found my check today, and that I would have to come get it and pay with a money order since it was late. When I (politely) informed her that my rent had been dropped off yesterday morning, she swore that she’d checked the box under the mail slot several times yesterday and that it wasn’t there. That part might be true – I can’t account for what happened to the envelope after I put it through the slot; maybe the box was offset and my check fell to the side or something. We went back and forth over this and she did everything but call me a liar.

I KNOW that my rent was paid on time and in full as described in my lease agreement.
My problem is that I can’t think of any way to prove that ( I guess it’s possible that they’re sticking me for more money since they know I can’t prove them wrong, but I’d like to think they’re more honest than that).

I’d feel like a (insert submissive word here) for paying this late fee, but I don’t see any way around it yet. And I DO NOT appreciate the rental office lady questioning my integrity the way she did, which is why I haven’t spoken to the rental company yet – I want to get some advice about what direction to go in, otherwise I’ll be just another irate caller.

Any advice, folks?

[SinCityGlocker]

If your rent was on time, they might be trying to screw you. I have never rented, but I know a lot of people who do/have. I wouldn't put it past a property management company to try to increase cash flow in these tough economic times by trying to get a few extra "late fees". Some people will just run it up the flag pole to see who will salute. Not to be an A-hole, but DUDE don't wait till the last possible second to pay your rent and avoid these problems in the future. Send it in registered return or drop it off in person during business and make them sign something saying they received it. Good luck.

[franklin]

Ask them to split the fee. From now on drop it off a day before and post date the check to the due date.

[Sandbag]

As a landlord I feel qualified to give advice.

Try to go over her head. Calmly explain the situation and you might get somewhere.
Just remember that these folks have heard it all. Tenants have the most creative excuses. And, in many cases are discovered to be huge liars. Don't fault the Employees of the property manager. Most of all, don't take it personally. They have to be tough or they'll get chewed up and spit out. If you are honest and have real integrity... you're one in a thousand.

[G30MI]

Her word against yours, man. Next time, drop it off on Friday afternoon if the 5th falls on a weekend (the check won't clear until Monday anyway) and be done with it.

[Squished]

Buy a house, problem solved. Just don't do that with your mortgage....or maybe you should since the government will pay if you don't. :)

[noway]

Take a photo of the check entering the slot.

Yes a friend of mine had something going with a piss poor management company in his townhouse. He started to film his check entering the door with his wife doing the filming. It was hilarious.

other methods,

electronic pay or automatic bill payment ( almost never late)

or do like what I've done. Pay ahead one month so your check entering a slot to be picked up a minimum wage workbie would never be late, since your always one month ahead.

[Jogitu]

Check with your state Attorney General's office on the laws applicable for renters rights. Google them and call direct and they will give you your legal rights. Most rental companies are aware of the laws and follow them strictly but some take advantage. It does not matter what is in the lease you signed it matters what the law says and I cannot imagine you do not have a longer grace period with the state or lesser penalty.

[uneasyrider]

If it's due on Monday have it in there hands by Tuesday of the prior week and don't use a check, pay it over the computer and you will have your record and save some time. You could even set it up as a monthly payment and it would be paid on the same day of every month automatically (I do that with my cars).

[Easterbrook]

As a landlord I feel qualified to give advice.

Try to go over her head. Calmly explain the situation and you might get somewhere.
Just remember that these folks have heard it all. Tenants have the most creative excuses. And, in many cases are discovered to be huge liars. Don't fault the Employees of the property manager. Most of all, don't take it personally. They have to be tough or they'll get chewed up and spit out. If you are honest and have real integrity... you're one in a thousand.

I agree. Call in, be calm and charming and explain what occurred. Explain how you've only been late once, and you took responsibility for your error, and that this time you are not in error. Charm can go a long way.

[srothman]

Try talking to a manager, or supervisor.

Be nice, but firm. Explain to them your situation, and that you already paid one late fee because of your error, and not understanding how it works.

From now on it is probably easier to pay it late on Friday, and the check won't clear until Monday. I would make sure and pay it in person and get a receipt. If you have to pay it in the morning the day it is due, for financial reasons, be there when they open.

I would stop using a slot for payment, and give it to an actual person that can write you a receipt.

Do they offer an auto pay, or on-line payment? I have a lot of my payments set up for auto pay, and they come out on the day they are due. No late fee's, and I don't have to give them my money any earlier than necessary.

[JLA]

Since you have not had a bad reputation and always paid your rent on time....I see no reason that the landlord should doubt you. You are the kind of person that I would love renting from me. Why would she put that in jeopardy? Landlords are always looking for great , on time paying tenants. The landlord should let it slide.

[gwalchmai]

If it's due on Monday have it in there hands by Tuesday of the prior week and don't use a check, pay it over the computer and you will have your record and save some time. You could even set it up as a monthly payment and it would be paid on the same day of every month automatically (I do that with my cars). Big +1 on this. Pay it electronically a few days before the due date. Then if there's a problem the bank can pay any fees.

Everybody should be happier.

[Cody Jarrett]

Here’s the background: Since March 2005, I’ve been renting a townhouse from a large real estate firm in my area. According to my lease, rent is due by the 5th of each month, and if the 5th should fall on a weekend, it has to be there when the rental office opens the following Monday, or a 10% late fee will be charged. (There’s a mail slot on the office door for rent paid on weekends) My rent has been late exactly once since I’ve lived here – I misread the lease to say rent could be paid on the following Monday (as in, say, that afternoon); the lady at the office corrected me, and I paid the late fee without complaint since the mistake was mine. That was a while ago, and I’ve dropped off my rent check (always in a sealed envelope) several times since then without a problem, until now.

I put my rent check through the mail Monday morning a few minutes after 8 AM, and well before the office opens at 8:30. When I came home that evening, I had a notice on my door saying my rent was overdue and that I owe them for both rent and the late fee; I called to find out what was going on but the office had closed for the day.

This morning, the rental office lady called me to say that she found my check today, and that I would have to come get it and pay with a money order since it was late. When I (politely) informed her that my rent had been dropped off yesterday morning, she swore that she’d checked the box under the mail slot several times yesterday and that it wasn’t there. That part might be true – I can’t account for what happened to the envelope after I put it through the slot; maybe the box was offset and my check fell to the side or something. We went back and forth over this and she did everything but call me a liar.

I KNOW that my rent was paid on time and in full as described in my lease agreement.
My problem is that I can’t think of any way to prove that ( I guess it’s possible that they’re sticking me for more money since they know I can’t prove them wrong, but I’d like to think they’re more honest than that).

I’d feel like a (insert submissive word here) for paying this late fee, but I don’t see any way around it yet. And I DO NOT appreciate the rental office lady questioning my integrity the way she did, which is why I haven’t spoken to the rental company yet – I want to get some advice about what direction to go in, otherwise I’ll be just another irate caller.

Any advice, folks?
In the futiure pay by certifed return receipt mail several days ahead and on time. It' a headache and cost another $4. Date the check the same as the due date so they can't get the $$ any sooner. Mail it well in advance to ensure they sign for it prior to the due date but can't cash it before then.

I had some rental properties for years. I gave the tenants a range. Due on the first of the month with a late fee after the fifteenth. I NEVER nickel and dimed them for a day or two of lateness as they should be held to human standards. People have a tough time making the rent these days and I'd I'd rather keep a good tenant than repaint and re-rent the apartment. An empty apartment for even one month defeats the whole purpose of the rules as it takes years to re-coop that monthly loss. A good landlord knows this inherently.

Use the U.S. mail and make them sign for every payment.

[user]

Check the statutes in your state. Probably in the very first book, there's a list of definitions and stuff codified as law. Everyplace I've had any reason to look, there's always one that says for all legal purposes, that if the date on which something is due falls on a Saturday, a Sunday, or a legal holiday (that usually means a State legal holiday, not necessarily Federal), then you get to the end of the next business day. If that's the law in your state, you're paying on time, and collection late fees and stuff is consumer fraud. If not, then the landlord is right. Check your lease, though, and see if there's a paragraph that says something like this: "Waiver of any term or condition herein on any one occasion shall not engender a complete waiver of that term or condition and shall be limited to the single instance of the waived term or condition." What that means is that they can ignore the due date and accept your payment late without charging a fee on one occasion, but they're not bound to do that same thing in the future. But if there is no such paragraph, then they've probably waived their right to demand late fees because of the history of the prior transactions.

CYA: I'm not an attorney where you live, probably, and free advice is worth what you've paid for it.

[Deuce_27]

Take a page from Tyrone Green's book:

Dark and lonely on the summer night.
Kill my landlord, kill my landlord.
Watchdog barking–Do he bite?
Kill my landlord, kill my landlord.
Slip in his window,
Break his neck!
Then his house
I start to wreck!
Got no reason–
What the heck!
Kill my landlord, kill my landlord.
C-I-L-L …
My land - lord …

[eljay45]

Is the rent due on the 1st or the 5th? You say it must be paid by the 5th which tends to make me believe it is due on the 1st and you are given to the 5th to avoid a late fee.

[1006]

Talk to them first, then decide how much you like living there. I'd move out if pressed for the fee. However, I would pay the fee to protect my credit report. I would then file a complaint with the Chamber of Commerce. I have rental condo and I do not want my renter moving out. Times are tough.

Good Luck

[Ragnar]

Any advice, folks?


Don't wait until the last minute to pay.

[njl]

Tell them to sue you if they want the late fee. It's not worth the hassle, so odds are they won't.

In the future, drop it off early and get a written receipt for it...or just pay it electronically. Your bank probably has online banking where you can schedule these sorts of payments to happen automatically each month.

[Hef]

Don't pay it at the very last minute and you won't give them the opportunity to hit you with a late charge.

[troy96]

I forgot to pay my rent one tme and it was a month late. I got charged zero.

[HavinaPretzel]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. The Virginia AG's website gave me some information on the Virginia Residential Landlord and Tenant Act and a link to the Va. Dept. of Housing and Community Development, but those don't have much for me in terms of dispute resolution. I'm going to call the rental company's main office tomorrow and set up a meeting with the highest-ranking person I can, and nicely explain things to them. As for moving out, I'm already on a month-to-month lease and have been looking for a work elsewhere, so that will hopefully happen soon regardless of what happens with this situation. Of course, they don't know I want to move, so that will be another bargaining chip for me.

[Daynja]

Buy a house, problem solved. Just don't do that with your mortgage....or maybe you should since the government will pay if you don't. :)

I'm buying a house soon because I'm sick of dealing with stupid s*** like this all the time from the property managers. I swear they are purposely trying to drive people out.

[Ender]

Don't listen to half these yahoos here :supergrin:

Go up the ladder as far as possible (just asking for the supervisor will often solve the problem)

If the end person type won't accomodate you, ask them, "would you prefer that somebody who has been a good tenant and paid rent 99% on time for 3 years leave over a minor late fee that shouldn't exist?"

Unless they are complete and utter dicks, that should solve your problem ;)

[gwalchmai]

Here’s the background: Since March 2005, I’ve been renting a townhouse from a large real estate firm in my area. According to my lease, rent is due by the 5th of each month, and if the 5th should fall on a weekend, it has to be there when the rental office opens the following Monday, or a 10% late fee will be charged. (There’s a mail slot on the office door for rent paid on weekends) My rent has been late exactly once since I’ve lived here – I misread the lease to say rent could be paid on the following Monday (as in, say, that afternoon); the lady at the office corrected me, and I paid the late fee without complaint since the mistake was mine. That was a while ago, and I’ve dropped off my rent check (always in a sealed envelope) several times since then without a problem, until now.

I put my rent check through the mail Monday morning a few minutes after 8 AM, and well before the office opens at 8:30. When I came home that evening, I had a notice on my door saying my rent was overdue and that I owe them for both rent and the late fee; I called to find out what was going on but the office had closed for the day.

This morning, the rental office lady called me to say that she found my check today, and that I would have to come get it and pay with a money order since it was late. When I (politely) informed her that my rent had been dropped off yesterday morning, she swore that she’d checked the box under the mail slot several times yesterday and that it wasn’t there. That part might be true – I can’t account for what happened to the envelope after I put it through the slot; maybe the box was offset and my check fell to the side or something. We went back and forth over this and she did everything but call me a liar.

I KNOW that my rent was paid on time and in full as described in my lease agreement.
My problem is that I can’t think of any way to prove that ( I guess it’s possible that they’re sticking me for more money since they know I can’t prove them wrong, but I’d like to think they’re more honest than that).

I’d feel like a (insert submissive word here) for paying this late fee, but I don’t see any way around it yet. And I DO NOT appreciate the rental office lady questioning my integrity the way she did, which is why I haven’t spoken to the rental company yet – I want to get some advice about what direction to go in, otherwise I’ll be just another irate caller.

Any advice, folks?Pay the fee. From what you say of your lease you agreed to leave the decision of whether payment was received up to them.

In the future use a method that gives you proof of reciept.

[ICARRY2]

Tell them you are not paying, period. It was there and if they couldn't find the check due to the method they instructed you to pay with then that's on them.

Tell them if they want to go through the hassle of evicting you or reporting you to the credit agencies, then there will be hell to pay.

[Marine8541]

Tell them you are not paying, period. It was there and if they couldn't find the check due to the method they instructed you to pay with then that's on them.

Tell them if they want to go through the hassle of evicting you or reporting you to the credit agencies, then there will be hell to pay.


As a landlord I get this threat about twice a month. Guess what I do? I screw up their credit and give them their 30 day quit notice or I’ll start eviction. The vast majority of renters are all talk. Fact is if they could afford lawyers, moving costs, first and last month at the place they’ll be going to, and the lien I’ll put on their car then they wouldn’t be renters in today’s market.

OP if you PAID the late fee then came to me with a beef I’d refund you. Come at me with a bad attitude with not paying it won’t end well. Next time go when the office is open and get a receipt.

[HavinaPretzel]

I spoke to the person at the rental company who's in charge of complaints ( I don't recall her title but that what she told me she did), and after a few minutes of discussion, she told me there's nothing she could/would do. I asked for the name and contact info of the person she reports to, but she wouldn't give it to me, so I told her I'm going to do some more research and decide whether to pay the fee and then file a complaint, or tell them off and make them take me to court.

I'm thinking that my best bet (by far) at this point is to just pay the fee, file a complaint with the state AG's office, and move. I've already started looking for a new place, in fact, and hope to give these people the 30-days notice my lease requires me to give before I leave.

Thanks again for all the advice!

[srothman]

They will probably just take out the late fee from any deposit they have. I would also make sure and get a receipt when you give them 30 days, and take pictures of the condition of the place.

That way when you move out, no surprises.

You will probably end up paying the late fee, one way, or another.

[ChuteTheMall]

If you're month to month, they know you are leaving anyway.

Also, your city and county may have landlord-tenant relations rules & laws & stuff, probably favoring the landlord.

Read your lease, yes, read every word. I think you'll see that they have the advantage, and all you can do is minimize the expenses by giving proper notice and leaving the place in good repair.

You'll probably need them as a reference before the next landlord lets you sign a lease. The system is rigged.

[Brian Lee]

Such is the life of renters. That's that. Always pay earlier and then call to verify that they have it. That's all you can do. There's probably a clause in your lease agreement that will make certain the manager wins the fight, and there's going to be nothing you can do about it unless you actually want to spend 3000 bucks on a lawyer just to make a point. And you'll still probably the case anyway.

[Texas357]

In the futiure pay by certifed return receipt mail several days ahead and on time. It' a headache and cost another $4. Date the check the same as the due date so they can't get the $$ any sooner. Mail it well in advance to ensure they sign for it prior to the due date but can't cash it before then.

Use the U.S. mail and make them sign for every payment.

I'm told that some states don't recognize post-dated checks. A person holding a check from you can deposit it any time they like.

Don't count on banks noticing or caring about the date on the check either.

[harlenm]

Is there a maximum late fee they are allowed to charge? Here in CT it is 5%.

[wolfman97]

Let's see if we can figure this one out. You say that they get extra money if, by their own mistakes, they don't find/get your rent check on time. So they get paid extra for screwing up.

Gee, I wonder how that will work out in the long run.

Believe it or not, this is not the first time I have heard/seen/experienced this sort of thing. Your best solution is to spend the extra money or time to get some kind of delivery receipt. In the long run, that is your only real defense. If you don't have it, count on them to screw you.

[6F0 Nick]

When I rented, I had the secretary sign a receipt for ANYTHING I dropped off at that stupid office. I had her sign for a notification that I would be breaking my lease in 6 months due to military assignment change and guess what? I got an earful from the landlord about not giving 30 days notice when I called to let her know I would be moving out. She also claimed I didn't pay my current month's rent. Guess what I whipped out and smacked her ego with? Yup, receipts. You are a fool if you don't get a receipt for paying hundreds, if not thousands of dollars for something. They literally could say "He never dropped it off!" and without a receipt, you will never be able to prove whether you did or not....

[eljay45]

I guess you are not going to answer my question about if the rent is due on the 1st or the 5th. My opinion based on 19 years in property managment is that your lease/rent payment is due on the 1st. You are given a grace period that allows to to pay it before the 5th without having to pay a late fee.

At best you paid your rent 29 minutes before you knew you would have to pay the late fee. I've never seen a lease wiithout a grace period so your rent was likely already several days late when you paid it.

Some tenants consistently pay their rent at the end of the grace period, whether it be 5 or 10 days. Sometimes they get caught and have to pay the fee. Paying when it is due solves the problem.

[Cody Jarrett]

I'm told that some states don't recognize post-dated checks. A person holding a check from you can deposit it any time they like.

Don't count on banks noticing or caring about the date on the check either.
Depending on the bank and jurisdiction of law, a check is a promissary note and is defined as a contract for payment (fed controlled). Upon cashing it the party accepts the terms of the payment. It's an old trick I've used all over the country. And we're only talking a couple of days here. They may deposit it but your bank does not have to pay the funds until the check date if you use a bank with "N.A." in the title (like HSBC). Those banks are not governed by any state banking law but by federal law... and they recognize the post dated check. Trust me, I'm a pretty slippery guy when it comes to money.

But in all fairness, I always gave a fifteen day grace period and NEVER charged a late fee even when they missed the grace period if they were good tenants. I'd rather have good people who struggle than a troublemaker who pays on-time.

[Russ in PA]

The day you move out, be sure to pour concrete down each of the drains.

[Aquanewt]

First get a gallon of gas. Then a couple of road flares and a brick :) JUST KIDDING

[chadster1]

Don't count on banks noticing or caring about the date on the check either.

A huge +1 on this. I deposit checks when I receive them no matter the date. All tellers are looking at is the amount and that it is endorsed.

[HavinaPretzel]

I guess you are not going to answer my question about if the rent is due on the 1st or the 5th.

My bad...I checked the lease and yes, the official due date is the 1st.