CCW in California... Not so good [Archive] - Glock Talk

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G36's Rule
10-10-2008, 23:33
Sheriff begins taking away concealed weapons permits

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/permits-carona-concealed-2186181-county-department

Hundreds of letters have been sent out advising current permit holders of impending revocation.
BY NORBERTO SANTANA JR.
THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER
Comments 83 | Recommend 137
The Sheriff's Department has begun the process of revoking hundreds of concealed weapon permits across Orange County.
This week, department officials confirmed that 146 letters have been sent out advising current license holders that their permits to carry firearms in public – called CCWs – are being revoked. There are currently 1,024 permit holders.
"The Department has determined that your identified risk does not meet the good cause threshold as required under the new CCW policy based upon the information you provided. As a result of this determination, the Department's present intention is to revoke your CCW license," reads the form letter sent out this month.
The letter, sent out under the signature of Captain Dave Nighswonger, advises current holders that if they feel that additional information should be considered they have roughly one month to provide additional good cause information for the department to consider before the revocation becomes final.
This week, county supervisors grilled Sheriff Sandra Hutchens during her 120-day update on the reorganization of the agency about the status of the concealed weapons review.
Hutchens acknowledged to supervisors that she had indeed tightened requirements for the permits but highlighted the fact that no current license had yet been revoked.
But it seems unlikely that those who are getting the letters won't be revoked.
"Most of them are not coming back with the information we need," said Nighswonger. "A lot of them are arguing the second amendment (to the U.S. Constitution)," he said.
Nighswonger said many of the current revocations listed their reason for having a concealed gun as "avid shooter."
That no longer qualifies under Hutchen's new standards.
Under state law, a Sheriff has discretion to issue concealed weapons permits. And under the administration of former Sheriff Mike Carona – whose federal corruption trial starts on Oct. 28 – guidelines for issuing concealed weapons permits were loosened.
Records reviewed by the Orange County Register show that concealed weapon permits soared under Carona, from 38 in 1998 to 468 the next year. By 2006, it was up to 1,400, a four-fold increase.
When Carona took over in 1998, Orange County ranked 34th in terms of the numbers of permits granted. By 2006, Orange County was ranked number nine.
However, the Register also found numerous instances where campaign donors received the permits. A Register analysis of Carona campaign contributions from 1996 to the end of 2001 shows that at least 95 contributors – who gave at least $68,000 - got licenses.
Indeed, the federal indictment against Carona details one specific instance where a wealthy contributor was granted a license under questionable circumstances.
Hutchens has said that connection prompted her to review the policies and tighten the standards.
Her revisions, and the revocation letters, have enraged gun activists who are pressing county supervisors to take action.
"There's a lot of business owners and a lot of gun owners that have had CCWs that have never met Mike Carona or contributed," said Greg Block, a Huntington Beach-based firearms instructor and activist.
He and many activists suggest a different standard: "If you are not a convicted felon, you should be able to get able to get a CCW in California," Block said.

tbhracing
10-10-2008, 23:37
G36's Rule- Do you feel better now?

First- This is in Orange County only, not all of California as your title indicates. Thats all we need is another anti-Cali. thread in here.

Besides, this is not the right forum to post this in. Some of you guys just wont give up.

G36's Rule
10-10-2008, 23:41
Good lord... Don't get another one locked with your whining. I posted an article I saw, like everyone else does.

tbhracing
10-10-2008, 23:47
No one is whining. Like the site's owner said- Give it a rest.

GlockFish
10-10-2008, 23:54
"Most of them are not coming back with the information we need," said Nighswonger. "A lot of them are arguing the second amendment (to the U.S. Constitution)," he said."

:faint:

wjv
10-11-2008, 00:03
"A lot of them are arguing the second amendment (to the U.S. Constitution)," he said."

Oh No! Not the second amendment! How prehistoric and uncivilized. . . .

Southpaw69
10-11-2008, 00:42
CA CCWs are all up to the sheriff. We have some counties that are pretty much "shall issue" and some that are "may issue" and some that are no way in hell. Then it all changes when a new sheriff comes in. When it comes to firearm laws, CA deserves the verbal abuse it get's on here.

Daynja
10-11-2008, 00:47
When it comes to firearm laws, CA deserves the verbal abuse it get's on here.

Any way you look at it, CA is one of the top 5 states for worst gun rights. I would argue worst, but you can NOT deny that it is in the top 5.

I admire those that work to change that status. I won't go as far to say that CA is a lost cause. If only they were as passionate about gun rights as they are about gay rights. They're both social rights issues, I don't understand why they care about one and not the other.

12131
10-11-2008, 02:17
I see nothing wrong with posting the article. I don't know, some people get so sensitive.

Clyde in CO
10-11-2008, 02:57
tbh, cali sucks. deal with it.

Critias
10-11-2008, 03:19
Ibtcr.

FastDraw McGraw
10-11-2008, 03:23
tbh, cali sucks. deal with it.

That about sums it up.......:wavey:

slewfoot
10-11-2008, 03:26
CA CCWs are all up to the sheriff. We have some counties that are pretty much "shall issue" and some that are "may issue" and some that are no way in hell. Then it all changes when a new sheriff comes in. When it comes to firearm laws, CA deserves the verbal abuse it get's on here.

I prefer a system where more than one elected official calls the shots.

Bogey
10-11-2008, 05:14
Ibtcr.


Oh no.....

kahrcarrier
10-11-2008, 05:27
I believe most posters are attacking the various "systems" in California, especially the ones that seem to ride roughshod over gun rights.

I don't believe they are attacking most Californians personally, especially the firearm owners and enthusiasts, but just the ones that dream up and perpetuate the anti-gun craziness that has a tendancy to spread to other States.

California has some great things to offer; few people will deny that. The gun laws, in general, are sub-par compared to a lot of other States. I think few would deny that.

We are all on the same side. Hopefully.

Thunderhawk88
10-11-2008, 07:47
We are all on the same side. Hopefully.

Yeah, and hopefully, those of us in the few states that lean more toward anti-gun can stop it inside our borders before it spreads.

INJoker
10-11-2008, 08:05
Ibtcr.

??? PM me. I'm curious. :cool:

G36's Rule
10-11-2008, 08:11
First- This is in Orange County only, not all of California as your title indicates. Thats all we need is another anti-Cali. thread in here.



I was not posting this so much to bash Cali as to make a point about "May Issue" states.

You stated this is only in Orange County and that my title is misleading. My point being that it can happen in any county in Cali because it is a "May Issue" state.

void *
10-11-2008, 08:48
tbh, cali sucks. deal with it.

Cali's gun laws suck, sure. And the fact that highly liberal populations in the SF and LA areas have a lock on the politics over the rest of the (mostly conservative otherwise) state sucks.

But "Cali sucks" is an overstatement. There actually are good things about California, you know.

CAcop
10-11-2008, 10:39
Part of the problem was Sheriff Carona handing out CCW permits to his buddies by saying they were reserve deputies but they not gone through the state required training. He could have handed them out without claiming they were reserves if he wanted to but he didn't. When there were abuses of the CCW and reserve status, such as one of his buddies brandishing a gun and claiming he was a deputy to get another set of golfers moving faster, it didn't help the CCW cause. That a Carona and a bunch of his close friends are now under indictment for a bunch of stuff.

There is a lot of backstory mising from that article. Some good people are going to suffer because of Carona and the backlash against him.

Brigrat
10-11-2008, 11:41
Cali's gun laws suck, sure. And the fact that highly liberal populations in the SF and LA areas have a lock on the politics over the rest of the (mostly conservative otherwise) state sucks.

But "Cali sucks" is an overstatement. There actually are good things about California, you know.
other than geography...name one...

as a recovering Californian transplanted to a free state, I disagree!

tbhracing
10-11-2008, 13:32
tbh, cali sucks. deal with it.


Good- stay out then.

tbhracing
10-11-2008, 13:35
I was not posting this so much to bash Cali as to make a point about "May Issue" states.

You stated this is only in Orange County and that my title is misleading. My point being that it can happen in any county in Cali because it is a "May Issue" state.

You were bashing the whole state, dont lie.

Kevin17
10-11-2008, 14:02
Good- stay out then.

I concur.

fnfalman
10-17-2008, 11:59
We still have the hottest chicks and the best wages.

gary newport
10-17-2008, 17:07
Good- stay out then.

I plan to get out as soon as I retire! :cool:

Hugo R
10-22-2008, 23:04
I plan to get out as soon as I retire! :cool:

Same here...but in the mean time...I'M GONNA PARTY LIKE AMAD MAN!!!

Cause fnfalman is right!:cool:

Bowtie
10-26-2008, 18:16
tbh, cali sucks. deal with it.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Cisco1969/wave-finger.gif

jrod45ar
11-22-2008, 16:14
Time for Californians to wake up & check out jury nullification.

dodgerfan175
11-26-2008, 23:27
It's a good thing I live in Kern County probably the most CCW & gun friendly county in the state.:supergrin:

Quiet
11-28-2008, 14:01
Supervisor Pat Bates wrote:

SHERIFF TO STAY REVOCATIONS OF CARRY CONCEALED WEAPONS (CCW) PERMITS UNTIL CLARIFICATION FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE IS RECEIVED
During last week’s Board meeting, it came to light during the testimony of several speakers on the CCW license issue that the revocation of a CCW license due to the new Sheriff’s more stringent policy would have the unintended consequence of any CCW revocation appearing on the person’s Department of Justice record in the same manner as if the license had been revoked because of criminal misconduct or other wrongdoing. This raised a significant concern that law-abiding citizens may suffer negative consequences in their personal and professional lives as a result of this license revocation appearing on their Department of Justice record.
To address this issue, I recommended to my colleagues on the Board to direct County Counsel, in conjunction with the Sheriff, to contact the Department of Justice in an effort to clearly distinguish on the individual records that failure to meet a revised discretionary interpretation of “good cause” must not be misinterpreted and entered into the Department of Justice record as not being fit to carry a concealed weapon.
My recommendation was unanimously supported by my colleagues on the Board. More importantly, the Sheriff has agreed to stay all revocations of CCW permits until the Department of Justice provides clarification related to the impacts any revocation may have on a CCW permit holder’s record. This is a positive step forward in working cooperatively and I appreciate the Sheriff’s willingness to re-look at this important issue.
http://www.calccw.com/Forums/announcements-orange-county/7347-sheriff-stay-revocations-carry-concealed-weapons.html

Nicoroshi
11-28-2008, 21:05
I for one am a California native who loves his state, and is actively working on making it like the 38 "Shall Issue" states. I agree that the gun laws in California suck but I would rather work to change them than move away from my home.

Bowtie
11-28-2008, 21:15
I for one am a California native who loves his state, and is actively working on making it like the 38 "Shall Issue" states. I agree that the gun laws in California suck but I would rather work to change them than move away from my home.

I Agree

dodgerfan175
11-30-2008, 01:44
I for one am a California native who loves his state, and is actively working on making it like the 38 "Shall Issue" states. I agree that the gun laws in California suck but I would rather work to change them than move away from my home.

Well said