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the jeff
11-29-2008, 07:59
I have a few general questions.
Iím 22, I have a associates degree and have done a year of ROTC. I would like to enlist. Can I enlist and receive a higher rank upon completion of basic/AIT? How bad will basic suck? In my state they need people in the infantry would this be a good choice? Are there any MOSís in small arms repair only? I would like to work in an armory, which MOS would get me there?

syntaxerrorsix
11-29-2008, 08:19
I have a few general questions.
Iím 22, I have a associates degree and have done a year of ROTC. I would like to enlist. Can I enlist and receive a higher rank upon completion of basic/AIT? How bad will basic suck? In my state they need people in the infantry would this be a good choice? Are there any MOSís in small arms repair only? I would like to work in an armory, which MOS would get me there?

It's possible that you could make SPC/E-4 You will still be required to have time in service and time in grade to be promoted to the next grade unless it is a lateral promotion to CPL. You will also be at the bottom of the list for PLDC (NCO school) and spent a great deal of time in the secondary zone for promotion.

Basic will only suck as bad as you let it. Get in shape and get all the sleep you can in now :)

There are armory shops that work on weapons system beyond the scope of the unit armorer.

You know why they need more Infantry folks right?

All kidding aside Combat Arms MOS's typically promote faster due to lower cut-off scores through E-6.

Combat Arms MOS's also get first pick for school slots typically.

You can always do both and be an 11B unit company armorer but that would considered an additional duty not a job description.

DustyJacket
11-29-2008, 10:18
One year of ROTC doesn't get you much/anything

syntaxerrorsix
11-29-2008, 10:20
One year of ROTC doesn't get you much/anything

A degree does however.

ace3587
11-29-2008, 11:34
With an associates and an enlistment of one of my buddies, I was able to make E-3 (PFC). As for 11B I can not comment. As said before, armorers seems to be an extra duty thing for most MOS's. I believe your BCT experience is what you make of it, your Drill Sergeants will also play a big factor into that. It was an amazing learning experience and, in the end, I enjoyed it. Don't get me wrong, at times it sucked, a lot, but it was good training. :cool:

eisman
11-29-2008, 21:42
Why anyone would join the NG when the Reserves are available I'll never know, But, to answer some of your questions...

Can I enlist and receive a higher rank upon completion of basic/AIT?
Yes, but make sure it's in your contract. This is a recruiter thing, not dependant on your unit.

In my state they need people in the infantry would this be a good choice?
Not unless you really want that. I'd go in for what I wanted, not what they need. Personally I think that infantry types have fewer option in the real world for job experience.

Are there any MOS’s in small arms repair only?
Yes, 45B is Small Arms Repair. Nowdays I call it Parts Replacement 101, but 25 years ago they actually taught you stuff like lathe and millwork, rebarreling, and refinishing. Now most of that stuff is contracted to civilians. This is not a Unit Armorer MOS, you will be assigned to a Maintenance Co. where you'll learn to fix trucks, heaters, missile systems, lasers, artillery, and everything else (because the small arms is contracted to a civilian).

I would like to work in an armory, which MOS would get me there?
You are a sick puppy, and don't know what you're asking for. Unit Armorers are 92Y (which is a Supply guy) who are sent off to a two week school where they learn to fill out forms. As such you will do scut work for Supply, and be on call for anything that has to do with the weapons.

Biscuitsjam
11-30-2008, 00:31
Why anyone would join the NG when the Reserves are available I'll never know, But, to answer some of your questions...The Army National Guard has combat arms and the Army Reserve does not (with a few exceptions). That's a big part of the reason I didn't consider it.

For those that aren't interested in infantry/cavalry/armor, it's still important to consider which units are near your home and which jobs they have available. And, it's hard to gauge for a recruit, but different units have different characters and some are better than others.

syntaxerrorsix
11-30-2008, 06:02
The Army National Guard has combat arms and the Army Reserve does not (with a few exceptions). That's a big part of the reason I didn't consider it.

For those that aren't interested in infantry/cavalry/armor, it's still important to consider which units are near your home and which jobs they have available. And, it's hard to gauge for a recruit, but different units have different characters and some are better than others.

There is also the matter of STATE funding v FEDERAL funding. Seems NG units have a better budget.

eisman
11-30-2008, 07:52
There is also the matter of STATE funding v FEDERAL funding. Seems NG units have a better budget.
That's one of the major reasons I mentioned. I have never seen a NG unit that received all the State funds it was budgeted. Those State funds are usually given to other projects (especially emergencies). NG facilities are the worst kept places I've ever seen, and their equipment needs the most repair.

Add to that trying to answer to both State and Federal masters, a horrible promotion system (still rife with nepotism), and the fact that the new Brigade system is going to remove a lot of regional control and there's even less reason to look to the Guard.

syntaxerrorsix
11-30-2008, 08:14
That's one of the major reasons I mentioned. I have never seen a NG unit that received all the State funds it was budgeted. Those State funds are usually given to other projects (especially emergencies). NG facilities are the worst kept places I've ever seen, and their equipment needs the most repair.

Add to that trying to answer to both State and Federal masters, a horrible promotion system (still rife with nepotism), and the fact that the new Brigade system is going to remove a lot of regional control and there's even less reason to look to the Guard.

You certainly saw a differing side than I. Most reserve units we trained were far less equipped than a comparable guard unit. To the point that some TA-50 in use by reserve units consisted of canvas ALICE gear, 1911's, and stamped metal, "grease guns", M60 and M16 A1 rifles as late as '95.

Guard units were issued LBV not LBE and were first to recieve MOLLE in '98? They also had relatively up to date armories with M9's A3's M4 and M249's and the like. There was also a great disparity in vehicles and training calender events, range time, bullet budget and the like.

This of course was observations from the enlisted side of the house as a young NCO training and opposing units at JRTC Polk. You may have seen a different aspect of it as an officer or warrant?

Biscuitsjam
11-30-2008, 09:57
All the armories in this state are well-maintained. There is a huge training budget just before deployment, and it's pretty big the rest of the time too. Of course, that may depend on the state (Georgia) and the type of unit (RSTA).

We have FATS simulators at most (all?) of the armories in our squadron, and we're sending guys to elite schools every week. NTC last year, JRTC this year.... We're supposed to do some overseas training when we get back from this deployment.

Our big problem is that promotions are soooooo slow. We went 3.5 years without ANY E5 or above promotions in my company.

syntaxerrorsix
11-30-2008, 10:48
All the armories in this state are well-maintained. There is a huge training budget just before deployment, and it's pretty big the rest of the time too. Of course, that may depend on the state (Georgia) and the type of unit (RSTA).

We have FATS simulators at most (all?) of the armories in our squadron, and we're sending guys to elite schools every week. NTC last year, JRTC this year.... We're supposed to do some overseas training when we get back from this deployment.

Our big problem is that promotions are soooooo slow. We went 3.5 years without ANY E5 or above promotions in my company.

The whole waiting for someone to retire before slots become available really does suck. This has always been a huge motivator to go active and come back to guard or reserve after hitting E6 minimum. I left my reserve unit after a year to go active and within 2 years finished PLDC promoted to E5 in the secondary zone and attended BNCOC. I was promoted E6 before some SPC in my reserve unit made 5.

eisman
11-30-2008, 11:31
You certainly saw a differing side than I.
Let's make that see. Since 9/11 I've spent 2 years shipping out NG and Reserve units throughout the mid-west, then some time in the sandbox, and now I have deployment oversight for 15 BDE's. What was in the 90's has no relevancy in todays Army. None. The biggest difference I see now is that many Reserve units left their heavy stuff in the Gulf, and most NG either brought theirs back or were issued new on a higher priority (it's a deal with the States who have a need for the NG beyond the Sandbox.)
There is a huge training budget just before deployment, and it's pretty big the rest of the time too.
That's Federal dollars, not State. The majority of your deployment training is funded that way. Even the money to send you to NTC or JRTC is Federal. (The State pays you.)

What I find disturbing is a tendancy to defer maintenance until time to deploy in hopes of using Federal funds at that time. (This is a big issue with health care and dental also).

syntaxerrorsix
11-30-2008, 11:44
Let's make that see. Since 9/11 I've spent 2 years shipping out NG and Reserve units throughout the mid-west, then some time in the sandbox, and now I have deployment oversight for 15 BDE's. What was in the 90's has no relevancy in todays Army. None. The biggest difference I see now is that many Reserve units left their heavy stuff in the Gulf, and most NG either brought theirs back or were issued new on a higher priority (it's a deal with the States who have a need for the NG beyond the Sandbox.)

That's Federal dollars, not State. The majority of your deployment training is funded that way. Even the money to send you to NTC or JRTC is Federal. (The State pays you.)

What I find disturbing is a tendancy to defer maintenance until time to deploy in hopes of using Federal funds at that time. (This is a big issue with health care and dental also).

My experienced was not limited to the 90's it is apparent you have a different view. From 91-2002 my overall assessment is that NG had better/more up to date equipment and larger budgets than the reserve units I worked with. Maybe the mid-west and the south have an income disparity.

Anyways back to the OP, decided what you would like your primary MOS to be and then look for additional duties and schools to satisfy your other interests once your in.

Sam White
11-30-2008, 21:35
Jeff, when I was in the USAR most people I saw working in the arms room were 92Y's. There was one 63J who had talked the unit leadership into getting him the school. 92Y is the MOS for Unit Supply, btw.

The mission of the unit you're looking at will determine what MOS's they "need." Most likely you will be sent to that AIT eventually if you don't choose it right away. Meaning that if you join as a 92Y, and stay in your unit for more than one enlistment, you'll most likely have to go to AIT for infantry, or whatever the unit is.

Some will tell you you're wasting your time if you're not combat arms, some will tell you you're wasting your time if you go combat arms. Keep in mind what you want to do and choose your MOS and unit based on that. If you don't want to do infantry things, don't join an infantry unit.

Keep in mind that promotions will come more slowly if you choose an MOS with few positions in the unit. I was supply in a chemical unit, and there was one E5 slot. There were two people in line in front of me for that slot. So I would have needed to reclass to get promoted.

Biscuitsjam
12-02-2008, 21:44
I would like to work in an armory, which MOS would get me there?You're probably misusing the term "armory." Every National Guard "base" is called an "armory." It doesn't matter if you're infantry, supply, repair, or intelligence - you do your monthly duty at an "armory."

As said elsewhere, the "unit armorer" is usually a supply MOS and does all the crap-work for the supply sergeant. The fun stuff with weapons maintenance is usually done at "MATES," which is a depot staffed by civilians. Most MATES facilities are at major bases, and most employees are either former military or current National Guard/Reserve (working a job separate from their military career).

There are lots of jobs "working at an armory" full-time, though I don't think that's what you were asking. Every armory has a full-time "Readiness NCO" and "Training NCO" although these are very coveted positions, and lots have other competitive "Active Guard Reserve" (AGR) jobs. There are also a fair number of "Technician" jobs, which are typically administration, maintenance, or supply/logistics-oriented. Technician jobs aren't as competitive as AGR jobs, but they also don't have as many job benefits.

If you like SHOOTING weapons, you ought to consider Infantry (11B), Cavalry Scout (19D), or Armor (19K). If you want more of a challenge, you could try getting Airborne Infantry, Long Range Surveillence (LRS), or Reconnaissance Surveillance and Target Acquisition (RSTA) - just ask and you can probably get into these types of units. The odds are against you making Special Forces, but the recruiter can give you a shot at this too if you ask (18X option).

Military Police (31B), Artillery (13B), Forward Observer (13F), Medic (91W), and Explosive Ordinance Disposal (89D) also get near the action fairly often. You COULD get right in the thick of it in any other MOS in the army, though it would be unlikely for most of them. There are some cooks (68M), mechanics (63-series), and combat stress (91X) guys that go on more combat patrols than most infantry, but it's rare. Human Intelligence (35M) always sounded interesting to me also.

Ask yourself what you want from the military: adventure, job skills, a chance to serve your country, a challenge, personal improvement, college money, or something else... Find a job that suits what you want to do, because you can literally do almost ANYTHING in the military.

Fox
12-02-2008, 22:45
My advise is that you go Guard with the intention of getting a BA in college and becoming an officer.

Since you are young, go infantry. Don't worry about an MOS that will get you a job as your college degree will create better opportunities.

fitz4609
12-03-2008, 21:54
I have a few general questions.
Iím 22, I have a associates degree and have done a year of ROTC. I would like to enlist. Can I enlist and receive a higher rank upon completion of basic/AIT? How bad will basic suck? In my state they need people in the infantry would this be a good choice? Are there any MOSís in small arms repair only? I would like to work in an armory, which MOS would get me there?

I don't know if this still holds true, but if you were in an Army ROTC unit and the guard at the same time while you worked on your BS, you would be promoted to E-5 automatically. You would not be an officer nor an enlisted man but a ROTC officer in training.
Things have changes. When I joined after 4 years RA my NG unit issued me a Colt XM-15 E1 and a battered Union switch and signal 1911A1. I was a 91B or medic while I finished my BS and had no time for the ROTC. I knew I would get a promotion to a WO as a PA anyway.
I enjoyed my time in the guard and always looked for soldiers like Biscuitsjam.
He gives sound advice with plenty of experience to back it up.
Good Luck.

claymore504
12-12-2008, 14:04
Why anyone would join the NG when the Reserves are available I'll never know, But, to answer some of your questions...

Can I enlist and receive a higher rank upon completion of basic/AIT?
Yes, but make sure it's in your contract. This is a recruiter thing, not dependant on your unit.

In my state they need people in the infantry would this be a good choice?
Not unless you really want that. I'd go in for what I wanted, not what they need. Personally I think that infantry types have fewer option in the real world for job experience.

Are there any MOSís in small arms repair only?
Yes, 45B is Small Arms Repair. Nowdays I call it Parts Replacement 101, but 25 years ago they actually taught you stuff like lathe and millwork, rebarreling, and refinishing. Now most of that stuff is contracted to civilians. This is not a Unit Armorer MOS, you will be assigned to a Maintenance Co. where you'll learn to fix trucks, heaters, missile systems, lasers, artillery, and everything else (because the small arms is contracted to a civilian).

I would like to work in an armory, which MOS would get me there?
You are a sick puppy, and don't know what you're asking for. Unit Armorers are 92Y (which is a Supply guy) who are sent off to a two week school where they learn to fill out forms. As such you will do scut work for Supply, and be on call for anything that has to do with the weapons.

Because I wanted to stay INFANTRY when I got out of active duty.

claymore504
12-12-2008, 14:10
Why anyone would join the NG when the Reserves are available I'll never know, But, to answer some of your questions...

Can I enlist and receive a higher rank upon completion of basic/AIT?
Yes, but make sure it's in your contract. This is a recruiter thing, not dependant on your unit.

In my state they need people in the infantry would this be a good choice?
Not unless you really want that. I'd go in for what I wanted, not what they need. Personally I think that infantry types have fewer option in the real world for job experience.

Are there any MOS’s in small arms repair only?
Yes, 45B is Small Arms Repair. Nowdays I call it Parts Replacement 101, but 25 years ago they actually taught you stuff like lathe and millwork, rebarreling, and refinishing. Now most of that stuff is contracted to civilians. This is not a Unit Armorer MOS, you will be assigned to a Maintenance Co. where you'll learn to fix trucks, heaters, missile systems, lasers, artillery, and everything else (because the small arms is contracted to a civilian).

I would like to work in an armory, which MOS would get me there?
You are a sick puppy, and don't know what you're asking for. Unit Armorers are 92Y (which is a Supply guy) who are sent off to a two week school where they learn to fill out forms. As such you will do scut work for Supply, and be on call for anything that has to do with the weapons.

This true. You go Infantry for the pride and brotherhood. You are not behind a desk or ina shop. you are in the feild in crappy weather sucking. There is nothing like it! You either love being in the Infantry or hate it. Getting into a good Infantry unit in my state is hit or miss. Prior active duty NCOs and officers make a good NG Infantry unit. As for me. My 10 year Infantry career got me a civilain career at a major oil, gas and chemical engineering firm. I did look into law enforcement with my city and it was good that I was Infantry. They would have turned me away if I was an MP.

deadday
12-12-2008, 15:33
A degree does however.

Only if it is an bachelors degree, then it gets you E4. If you have over 45 hours, but not your bachelors, you get E3. least that's the way it was in 05 when I enlisted.





drew

syntaxerrorsix
12-12-2008, 20:42
Only if it is an bachelors degree, then it gets you E4. If you have over 45 hours, but not your bachelors, you get E3. least that's the way it was in 05 when I enlisted.





drew

You are correct as a I recall. As stated, college will substitute for grade to a certain extent. It won't buy you time in grade/service but it may give you a pay bump 'till you get your sand bags stacked. Don't count on it for much else however.

Fire_Medic
12-12-2008, 21:26
There's also the CASP program for certain civilian acquired skills.:wavey: