Security question/recruiter is pissing me off... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Mwildt
12-19-2008, 01:34
So long story short I was charged with a misdemeanor a few years ago, did community service and it was expunged from my record (was not a minor at the time either). For those that must know, we put a port-o-pot in the back of a friends truck. No, we weren't going to steal it, just wanted a good laugh when he came back to his truck.

Anyway...

It's not on my background check, however, my recruiter is saying that it 'may' come up if they dig hard enough withinin my background. I've already wrote a letter explaining my actions and how it was out of character for my behavior. I was initially under the impression that would solve any potential problems with my background check IF ithe issue were to come up later. She's now telling me that when I get to basic I can expect a good cop/bad cop routine and to not say a word if asked about it. She pretty much is telling me to sit there and tell them my lawyer said to not talk about it and to not mention anything about it, even it being expunged.

I'm just wanting to know what will/could happen if it's brought up when I'm at basic and I just sit there like an idiot while they ask me question after question regarding the matter and I say nothing. Will they put me on a plane and send my ass back home or what?

Thanks guys.

AF-Odin
12-19-2008, 14:54
I am not a lawyer, but have dealt with folks getting security clearances within the USAF and Army for well over 30 years. If you had a run-in with the law, admit it, admit that it was a stupid mistake and what happened regarding it. Many things can be forgiven, but not lying about it or trying to cover it up. In the vast majority of cases, the worst that happens in these type of cases is a delay in granting the clearance to MAKE SURE that it was ajudicated in the manner you said.

Rocknropes
12-21-2008, 22:19
yeah, while I was going through my paperwork process they told me just to tell them everything. There is a waiver for just about everything and something like that, where no one was hurt and it wasn't a HUGE crime, you should be ok. I would talk to other recruiters about it just in case though. Check out www.afforums.com , they usually help with answering some questions as they have AD recruiters as moderators. good luck.

CPT_CRUNCH
12-22-2008, 11:20
I am not a lawyer, but have dealt with folks getting security clearances within the USAF and Army for well over 30 years. If you had a run-in with the law, admit it, admit that it was a stupid mistake and what happened regarding it. Many things can be forgiven, but not lying about it or trying to cover it up. In the vast majority of cases, the worst that happens in these type of cases is a delay in granting the clearance to MAKE SURE that it was ajudicated in the manner you said.

+1, best advice. save you're self a lot of trouble!

Mwildt
12-22-2008, 16:44
yeah, while I was going through my paperwork process they told me just to tell them everything. There is a waiver for just about everything and something like that, where no one was hurt and it wasn't a HUGE crime, you should be ok. I would talk to other recruiters about it just in case though. Check out www.afforums.com , they usually help with answering some questions as they have AD recruiters as moderators. good luck.

Thanks, I'll head over there and see what I can find.

I'm just worried about getting question after question thrown at me about it if it comes up. To me it just seems weird/unethical to sit there and not say a word about it after I've already disclosed it.

Dean
12-22-2008, 16:58
I'm just worried about getting question after question thrown at me about it if it comes up. To me it just seems weird/unethical to sit there and not say a word about it after I've already disclosed it.

You told a recruiter you got arrested for stealing a porta-potty, and it was expunged? Don't worry about that.
:drillsgt:

MrMurphy
12-24-2008, 12:18
I went through Security Forces school with a former Exctasy dealer. I think a portapotty thief will do fine.

He admitted it, and basically said to feed his daughter, he did what he had to. They said ok, and let it go. He didn't use the stuff, he sold it. Odds are he'll never get a clearance, but they let him in.

I think a portapotty raid will get a chuckle and not much more. As long as you tell them up front.

Texas357
12-24-2008, 12:42
I've heard even for psych evaluations, it is better to be honest about your craziness than to try to hide it.

Be honest; you don't want to start off with a lie.

5madman2
12-25-2008, 05:55
So long story short I was charged with a misdemeanor a few years ago, did community service and it was expunged from my record (was not a minor at the time either). For those that must know, we put a port-o-pot in the back of a friends truck. No, we weren't going to steal it, just wanted a good laugh when he came back to his truck.

Anyway...

It's not on my background check, however, my recruiter is saying that it 'may' come up if they dig hard enough withinin my background. I've already wrote a letter explaining my actions and how it was out of character for my behavior. I was initially under the impression that would solve any potential problems with my background check IF ithe issue were to come up later. She's now telling me that when I get to basic I can expect a good cop/bad cop routine and to not say a word if asked about it. She pretty much is telling me to sit there and tell them my lawyer said to not talk about it and to not mention anything about it, even it being expunged.

I'm just wanting to know what will/could happen if it's brought up when I'm at basic and I just sit there like an idiot while they ask me question after question regarding the matter and I say nothing. Will they put me on a plane and send my ass back home or what?

Thanks guys.

Former AF recruiter (Got fired from it for not making quota) and I also processed Security Clearances. Presently do and review Back ground investigations.

The Rules"

#1 Recruiters are liars. In the cases when they are not lying, they have no idea what they are talking about.

#2. Disclose, Disclose, Dislcose. Nothing is ever really expunged. There is always a record of something happening, evens if details are purged from the records.

#3. For every disqualifier, there is a mitigator. Time between the negative behavior and the present with no repeat negative behaviors is the best mitigator. The relative minor status of the offense is also a mitigator.

#4. Take responsibility for your actions, accept that you learned a lesson from it and will not do something like it again. That does not mean a profuse apology is needed. Saying you're sorry over and over to the investigator does not make things go away, and can get irritating. They are looking to see that there is a change away from negative behavior, not that you can mouth apologies.

#5. You may be asked about it a couple times to see if you make substantial changes in your story. If you tell the truth, and follow the above rules you will probably not see any good cop/bad cop routine over such a minor problem. They accept that most people are not angels and probably are not looking for them. They are looking for honesty.

I think you will do just fine. Good luck in your career.

Morris
12-26-2008, 05:47
Questions, if we run your name, do we still see a SID and FBI number? If we do, there is still something on your record. Easy enough to have your local cop shop run you and let you know. I've done it for guys going in before. Some thought they had clean records when they didn't.

Mwildt
12-26-2008, 18:04
You told a recruiter you got arrested for stealing a porta-potty, and it was expunged? Don't worry about that.
:drillsgt:

No need to yell, chief.

I was not arrested either, thanks.

Mwildt
12-26-2008, 18:06
Questions, if we run your name, do we still see a SID and FBI number? If we do, there is still something on your record. Easy enough to have your local cop shop run you and let you know. I've done it for guys going in before. Some thought they had clean records when they didn't.

I've had the state pull my background twice in the last 3 months, both times it's come back with nothing on it.

I really don't know where else to look to find out if there's an expungement number or anything of that nature that will show there is 'more' out there on my record. Any sugestions?


Thanks in advance.

Morris
12-26-2008, 18:10
If you don't have anything on it, you should have a clear record. However, you may have a crappy recruiter. Ask me how I know! :)

5madman2
12-26-2008, 18:39
I've had the state pull my background twice in the last 3 months, both times it's come back with nothing on it.

I really don't know where else to look to find out if there's an expungement number or anything of that nature that will show there is 'more' out there on my record. Any sugestions?


Thanks in advance.

Don't get to worked up about it-tell the investigators the truth when they ask-give them the date, jurisdiction, and the court it was adjudicated in. They'll take care of the rest. If it was an real problem, you would not be getting in in the first place.

DustyJacket
12-26-2008, 19:12
I went through Security Forces school with a former Exctasy dealer. I think a portapotty thief will do fine....

i don't know. Pot-a-potties, blue chemicals, hazardous wastes,..... sound serious. Probably a felony. :rofl:

Actually, pleading guilty to theft when they couldn't prove "intent to parmanently deprive the owner of a thing of value..." was silly. It was more like joyriding. Unless you took it out of state or something.

Mwildt
12-26-2008, 20:58
i don't know. Pot-a-potties, blue chemicals, hazardous wastes,..... sound serious. Probably a felony. :rofl:

Actually, pleading guilty to theft when they couldn't prove "intent to parmanently deprive the owner of a thing of value..." was silly. It was more like joyriding. Unless you took it out of state or something.


I never pled guilty if that helps. I entered a diversion program and did a few hours of community service and the charge was dismissed (that's my understanding).


As I talk to my recruiter and from what I gather from you guys, I'm starting to form the opinion that my recruiter may not have disclosed this charge any further and if anything, omitted it. Which is what is leading me to believe that is why I'm being told to not mention anything about it should I be asked.

Sound plausbile to you guys?

Morris
12-26-2008, 21:09
Not the first time it has happened with recruits or recruiters.

5madman2
12-27-2008, 05:15
Go back to rule #1.

Recruiters are liars. They even lie to each other. Sounds like you are on the right track.

They probably don't want to process a waiver.


Find another recruiter. See how they handle it.

Herknav
01-24-2009, 18:12
Just to beat the dead horse--Tell the truth no matter what. If you lie and they find out, it will be worse than whatever they MIGHT say.

Having said that, if I were you, I worry more about being assigned to the S.W.A.T. (Poop, Water, And Trash) team. After all, you have prior experience in dealing with chemical toilets, very similar to those on some of the fancier passenger aircraft. :rofl:

Just joking around, but remember--TELL THE TRUTH!

H5N1_G35LTD
01-27-2009, 08:40
Nothing wrong with being part of the good old SWAT team. Haha. Without us 2T2's your planes would smell really bad. Well.....they wouldn't get loaded with cargo either.

C5GreaseMonkey
01-27-2009, 20:37
Nothing wrong with being part of the good old SWAT team. Haha. Without us 2T2's your planes would smell really bad. Well.....they wouldn't get loaded with cargo either.


SWAT at your base load planes? :rofl:

H5N1_G35LTD
01-28-2009, 17:00
SWAT at your base load planes? :rofl:


The poo suckers and pallet pushers are in the same shop! One minute you're driving a 60K, next one you're in the LST.

C5GreaseMonkey
01-28-2009, 17:30
The poo suckers and pallet pushers are in the same shop! One minute you're driving a 60K, next one you're in the LST.


I suppose your right, but our aerial port guys rotate every few months i think. Packing, Pushing, Pumping. :rofl:

Herknav
01-30-2009, 15:54
Nothing wrong with being part of the good old SWAT team. Haha. Without us 2T2's your planes would smell really bad. Well.....they wouldn't get loaded with cargo either.

You're absolutely right. As I said, I was kidding around. ;)

spectre381
02-05-2009, 14:28
I never pled guilty if that helps. I entered a diversion program and did a few hours of community service and the charge was dismissed (that's my understanding).

Earlier you said it was "expunged", but here you say it was "dismissed"... from both a recruiting and background check stance, there's a big difference between the two terms.

Just tell the truth and you will be fine.

use2b6L32
02-28-2009, 23:43
No need to yell, chief.

I was not arrested either, thanks.

Huh?

IF you had a record that got expunged, you most certainly DID get arrested.

WTF are you talking about?

Javelin
02-28-2009, 23:51
Even if you smoked pot just admit it. Just say it was recreation and only a few times. I know a current Captain that once smoked a little wacky tobaccy and he is doing just fine as an Army Aviator.

Go figure right?

:wavey:

First Sgt
03-07-2009, 23:14
Former AF recruiter (Got fired from it for not making quota) and I also processed Security Clearances. Presently do and review Back ground investigations.

The Rules"

#1 Recruiters are liars. In the cases when they are not lying, they have no idea what they are talking about.

#2. Disclose, Disclose, Dislcose. Nothing is ever really expunged. There is always a record of something happening, evens if details are purged from the records.

#3. For every disqualifier, there is a mitigator. Time between the negative behavior and the present with no repeat negative behaviors is the best mitigator. The relative minor status of the offense is also a mitigator.

#4. Take responsibility for your actions, accept that you learned a lesson from it and will not do something like it again. That does not mean a profuse apology is needed. Saying you're sorry over and over to the investigator does not make things go away, and can get irritating. They are looking to see that there is a change away from negative behavior, not that you can mouth apologies.

#5. You may be asked about it a couple times to see if you make substantial changes in your story. If you tell the truth, and follow the above rules you will probably not see any good cop/bad cop routine over such a minor problem. They accept that most people are not angels and probably are not looking for them. They are looking for honesty.

I think you will do just fine. Good luck in your career.

Rule #1 is a pretty harsh statement. It's kinda like sayin ALL Security Police are idiots, or all Texas Police are corrupt, or even though you've had Glock Armorer class you don't know what you're doing, or Police Instructors are only instructors because they couldn't hack it in the field, or University Policemen are simply Cops for Hire.

Otherwise I pretty much agree with everything you've said to the young man. Bottom line is be honest from the time you deal with your recruiter, to processing for enlistment, to the background paperwork/investigation you may go through in basic. Make sure you have all the pertinent info with you (i.e. dates, charge, disposition, and perhaps even proof of disposition).

Good Luck on your Air Force enlistment.

5madman2
03-08-2009, 05:57
Rule #1 is a pretty harsh statement. It's kinda like sayin ALL Security Police are idiots, or all Texas Police are corrupt, or even though you've had Glock Armorer class you don't know what you're doing, or Police Instructors are only instructors because they couldn't hack it in the field, or University Policemen are simply Cops for Hire.

Otherwise I pretty much agree with everything you've said to the young man. Bottom line is be honest from the time you deal with your recruiter, to processing for enlistment, to the background paperwork/investigation you may go through in basic. Make sure you have all the pertinent info with you (i.e. dates, charge, disposition, and perhaps even proof of disposition).

Good Luck on your Air Force enlistment.

I understand your Point-Minor adjustment.

All the Recruiters I knew were liars. If they weren't lying, they didn't know what they were talking about. The worst part about it is that they actually had the gall to speak of "Integrity."