best .45 acp ammo? federal HST or hydra shok? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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xxsjxx1
01-11-2009, 18:43
looking to pick up my first box of sd ammo, looking at the federal hst and hydra shok for my g36, anyone have any opinions for or against either of these ammos?

Preußen
01-11-2009, 19:26
HST without question.

Why pay the same price for 20 INFERIOR Hydra-Shoks when you can get FIFTY rounds of superior-performing HST?

Check out Winchester Ranger T and Remington Golden Saber - 230gr.
Don't limit yourself to one or two different types of ammo.

ps - Hydra-Shok still sucks

HWA GLOCKER
01-11-2009, 20:17
Their is no best round but HST is my favorite!

glock2740
01-11-2009, 20:19
200gr +P Gold Dot

kensteele
01-11-2009, 22:33
hst is always better than the equivalent hydrashok.

9mm +p+
01-11-2009, 23:01
Whicheve you have loaded when time comes that you need it, both will work. No handgun round is 100%,period.

striker6126
01-11-2009, 23:14
I have both in my .45 safe. I do carry the 230gr hst +p.

Ak.Hiker
01-12-2009, 00:25
Both the 230 grain HST and the 230 grain Hydra-Shok work good in my Glock 36. For me it would be a toss up.

NightFighter
01-12-2009, 01:12
I would say the Speer Gold Dot 230 grain or the Federal HST are top SD rounds. If you plan to work or carry around vehicles, the bonded Speer Gold Dot goes right through a windshield and retains its jacket. I have witnessed this August at the Iowa Law Enforcement Academy where I took a two-week LE instructor class for my dept. This was a barrier and gelatin shoot including heavy clothing, auto steel and auto glass.

The Speer/ATK rep also said the Hydra-Shok was a great round in its day but will be discontinued soon. The HST has taken its place. While not bonded, the HST does retain its jacket pretty well in most cases too.


I would have no problem carrying either. I am issued the Gold Dot and am very happy.

tc451
01-21-2009, 20:47
Has anyone heard of problems re FTF with HSTs? I saw on another site that people had trouble specially with the XD,among others. I found the P45HST1 and got two boxes of 50. Did not really want +P but can't be picky these days. Problem ,they say,is too wide a hollow point . These would be used in a Glock 21.

AJSully421
01-21-2009, 21:08
i use 230+p HST, and DT 230 Gold dot. I have experimented with the GS, but i like more velocity for some reason. both are very easy on the recoil, and both ran 100% in my G30 before i sold it, and i've never had a single malfunction in over 2k rounds with my G21, 100 were HST 230 and 230+p.

For the record, i have randomly staggered 230 and 230+p HST in a mag and shot them, i cannot tell the difference from recoil or muzzle flip, and the are within .2" of penetration of each other and expand the same, so get whichever is cheaper... it really does not matter.

I would certainly recommend that you personally check them out in your gun before you trust your life to them... at an absolute minimum of 50 rounds.

finz50
01-21-2009, 21:08
HSTs easy

Jason607
01-21-2009, 21:12
HST all the way! HST stands for Hydra-Shock-Tallon I believe. Haven't had any recoil, low flash, opens up wide!

Here it is sitting next to some other HST's on top of some quarters:

http://glocktalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=165349&stc=1&d=1232593853

Penetrated three milkjugs, found in fourth.

Preußen
01-21-2009, 22:34
HST all the way! HST stands for Hydra-Shock-Tallon I believe.
Nope... Not even close

HST has NOTHING in common with Hydra-Shok [or Black Talons]


HST > Hydra-Shok

SIGShooter
01-21-2009, 22:45
Of the 2 you listed I would go with the HST. The reason being is that it is a newer design of bullet.

I never had luck with the Hydra-Shoks or the HST though.

If you are open to using different brands of ammunition I would definetly consider Winchester Ranger.

I've got about 8,000 through my 1911 and never had a single failure of any kind. I can't say that about Federal ammunition.

Just be sure that before you carry any ammunition you make sure your weapon likes it as do you.

tc451
01-22-2009, 20:18
Whats the difference between P45HST1 and P45HST2 ??

Boris Bush
01-22-2009, 20:30
Nope... Not even close

HST has NOTHING in common with Hydra-Shok [or Black Talons]


HST > Hydra-Shok

One of the experts here cleared it up pretty good in a thread I can not remember the title of.

HST= Hi-Shok Two. It is just a new generation Hi-shok projectile and has nothing to do with the hydrashok line of projectile.

If he was wrong by all means correct me...........

gary newport
01-22-2009, 20:45
Whats the difference between P45HST1 and P45HST2 ??

HST1 is +p; HST2 is standard-pressure and my first choice in .45 ACP defensive ammo.

gary newport
01-22-2009, 20:51
One of the experts here cleared it up pretty good in a thread I can not remember the title of.

HST= Hi-Shok Two. It is just a new generation Hi-shok projectile and has nothing to do with the hydrashok line of projectile.

If he was wrong by all means correct me...........

That is my understanding as well. However, HST is far more that "just" an updated Hi-Shok and that is probably why Federal chose to name it something that didn't tie it so closely to Hi-Shok.

HST does share something with Hydra-Shok however, the guy that designed Hydra-Shok contributed one (or both -- I can't remember) of the two designs which were combined to make the most excellent HST!

Will Miller
01-22-2009, 21:33
I have fired a lot of HST rounds thru Kimbers 3,4 and 5" versions and also Glocks in G21 and G30 as well as XD 4" service and the M&P .45 full size and I have yet to have any feeding issues at all . In fact I think the HST is one of the Most accurate rounds I have fired. It always shoots tight groups and is capable of more than I can muster up. I have noticed though that for some odd reason the P45HST1 (230 gr +P version) is always more readily available than the non +P version, I have both versions and limit my shooting of +P for Qualifications only and duty use as that is what is issued to us. However I would not sqwak one bit if I was Issued the non +P version for Duty use.

Glockman454
02-15-2010, 18:04
That is my understanding as well. However, HST is far more that "just" an updated Hi-Shok and that is probably why Federal chose to name it something that didn't tie it so closely to Hi-Shok.

HST does share something with Hydra-Shok however, the guy that designed Hydra-Shok contributed one (or both -- I can't remember) of the two designs which were combined to make the most excellent HST!

Wow! I am shocked at how many incorrect answers to what HST stands for. I think it is even on the Federal website.

come on guys... HST is an acronym for Hydra-shok Tactical.

Glockman454
02-15-2010, 18:04
Nope... Not even close

HST has NOTHING in common with Hydra-Shok [or Black Talons]


HST > Hydra-Shok

Wow! I am shocked at how many incorrect answers to what HST stands for. I think it is even on the Federal website.

come on guys... HST is an acronym for Hydra-shok Tactical.

jtull7
02-15-2010, 19:37
I have stuck with and believed in Hydra-Shok all my life, until I discovered DoubleTap. Now I use both. I will not use any other ammo oher than those two.

(Obviously, I shoot cheap ammo at the range. I mean for SD).

N/Apower
02-15-2010, 21:58
200gr +P Gold Dot

Lots of issues with this round.

kshutt
02-15-2010, 22:13
Well, I'm way behind the times on ammo, I guess. I can't find "Federal HST" ammo on Federal's website? What is it, and where can I find/read about it?

N/Apower
02-15-2010, 22:18
Well, I'm way behind the times on ammo, I guess. I can't find "Federal HST" ammo on Federal's website? What is it, and where can I find/read about it?

There is currently a wee bit of an HST shortage in .45 caliber, as of late. Here is some data on it for you:
http://le.atk.com/pdf/HSTInsertPoster.pdf

Glockman454
02-16-2010, 19:21
Well, I'm way behind the times on ammo, I guess. I can't find "Federal HST" ammo on Federal's website? What is it, and where can I find/read about it?

Since it is technically "Law Enforcement" ammo, you have to scroll to the bottom of the (Federal) web page and click on "law enforcement" and you will go to the LE website and it is listed there.

Glockman454
02-16-2010, 19:29
Lots of issues with this round.

I have heard that too, but I have not read many specifics. I do believe it has problems, but, can you fill me in on the specific problems with the 200gr GD?

Thanks,

N/Apower
02-16-2010, 19:36
I have heard that too, but I have not read many specifics. I do believe it has problems, but, can you fill me in on the specific problems with the 200gr GD?

Thanks,

"As has been reported for many years, the Speer Gold Dot .45 ACP 200 gr +P JHP is NOT recommended for duty use. This load has demonstrated numerous failures to expand both in lab testing and in actual officer involved shooting incidents; it also has exhibited numerous failures to feed and function in a variety of .45 ACP pistol types."- Dr. Roberts<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->

den888
02-16-2010, 23:34
Federal HST or Winchester PDX1

gatorboy
02-17-2010, 04:48
200gr +P Gold Dot

Lots of issues with this round.

Such as?

N/Apower
02-17-2010, 05:22
Such as?

Seriously?

gatorboy
02-17-2010, 10:13
Yes, seriously. I'd have to say that Dr. Roberts has left a lot to the imagination with that quote. Whose records was he privy to to come to that conclusion. It's about the most powerful ACP load out there. I got a good deal a while back on a case and have taken a few hogs with it, no complaints here. I keep a mag full of this in my truck when I carry ACP because it will penetrate.

N/Apower
02-17-2010, 14:16
Yes, seriously. I'd have to say that Dr. Roberts has left a lot to the imagination with that quote. Whose records was he privy to to come to that conclusion. It's about the most powerful ACP load out there. I got a good deal a while back on a case and have taken a few hogs with it, no complaints here. I keep a mag full of this in my truck when I carry ACP because it will penetrate.

Ok, I thought you did not read what was posted right above your post, not that you wanted additional information. Here is a picture to go along with the words.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/DocGKRData/45_200grGDHP.htm

gatorboy
02-17-2010, 16:39
Thanks for the link. Having done plenty of "hillbilly" backyard testing, I have to say some of those recovered bullets through denim have me shaking my head. Two of six petals expand at 12 and 6 o'clock? Weird to say the least. Anyway, those pics must be old because all of my GD 200 +P's have seven petals, not six as shown in the pictures. The cavity looks deeper on the unexpanded bullet as well.

N/Apower
02-17-2010, 16:42
Thanks for the link. Having done plenty of "hillbilly" backyard testing, I have to say some of those recovered bullets through denim have me shaking my head. Two of six petals expand at 12 and 6 o'clock? Weird to say the least. Anyway, those pics must be old because all of my GD 200 +P's have seven petals, not six as shown in the pictures. The cavity looks deeper on the unexpanded bullet as well.


I have seen 1 or 2 talons deploy before when shooting Ranger T at less than ideal targets.

I am unsure about whether or not there was a successful re-design. I will ask Dr. Roberts what he knows of it.

M&P Shooter
02-17-2010, 20:00
HST from your 2 choices but I prefer Bonded Remington Golden Sabers:wavey:

dougader
02-17-2010, 20:32
I have stuck with and believed in Hydra-Shok all my life, until I discovered DoubleTap. Now I use both. I will not use any other ammo oher than those two.

(Obviously, I shoot cheap ammo at the range. I mean for SD).

I used to use it, until my last batch of 230 grain GDHP from DT ran 909 fps and the fmjfp ran 843 fps over the chrony. Heck, Blazer brass ran 833 fps.

Hydra-shoks are the most accurate non-match grade ammo I have fired in several guns, but for SD my choice is HST.

tx787
03-30-2010, 19:51
From what I've heard HST and Gold Dot are the two best choices currently. Interesting since the same company makes both. Ironic because HST which is marketed as LE only is actually better for civs and Gold Dot is actually better for LE IMHO. I think this because the GD will stay bonded when it goes through windshields etc (something I would imagine LE needing to do rather than civs) and HST is less prone to over-penetration (better for civs).

HST has better expansion though...

Hydra-Shok is technically outdated since it's being replaced by HST, it's very good but not the best these days.

DRT
03-30-2010, 20:35
HST and Ranger Tseries are best of the best. Everything else is clearly 2nd tier.

Go with the 230gr +P HST.

cowboy1964
03-31-2010, 08:36
My 200+P's have seven petals as well. Those 4-layer denim pics are odd. Of the 5 pics ones shows great expansion and another one shows what appears to be an unfired bullet. Something strange going on there. And I didn't see any date about when that testing was done but as was stated obviously it's the older design with six petals.