.40 S&W Hornady TAP FPD (XTP) Street Credit? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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thegriz18
01-13-2009, 10:09
I can never get great details on the XTP's performance. The only thing I can find is that it is a very consistent bullet in both expansion and penetration. What is the street credit for the XTP? Since the XTP is known for penetration, how well suited is it for CCW? These rounds intrigue me with their feed profile similar to that of an FMJ round, great accuracy, and their consistent performance. I just never hear about them involved in a lot of testing, especially in .40 S&W. The best I can get is "I carry the XXX grain XTP." That's great, but why do you carry it? What made you decide to? 155 grain or 180 grain? Thanks for any help in my search of XTP information.

JohnnyReb
01-13-2009, 11:16
I can never get great details on the XTP's performance. The only thing I can find is that it is a very consistent bullet in both expansion and penetration. What is the street credit for the XTP? Since the XTP is known for penetration, how well suited is it for CCW? These rounds intrigue me with their feed profile similar to that of an FMJ round, great accuracy, and their consistent performance. I just never hear about them involved in a lot of testing, especially in .40 S&W. The best I can get is "I carry the XXX grain XTP." That's great, but why do you carry it? What made you decide to? 155 grain or 180 grain? Thanks for any help in my search of XTP information.

Typically the XTP bullet is known for deep penetration and its expansion is nothing to write home about. Most modern hollow points expand more then the XTP, however in my opinion the XTP is one of the most accurate bullets ever designed.

I would feel comfortable carrying it, and it will do its part if you do yours.

thegriz18
01-13-2009, 12:34
Does the XTP out penetrate the Gold Dot? I would think that being "plated" the Gold Dot would win, but the XTP seems to expand less than the Gold Dot.

Lt. Commander
01-13-2009, 12:46
When I carry my .40 I use the 180 gr. TAP. I chose a long time ago the frame of mind "heavy and slow" after doing some exhaustive terminal ballistics research. I was convinced that momentum and penetration is paramount over expansion and shock value. A hit to the CNS is "THE" fastest and most effective way to stop and aggressor, not the impact to organs or damage by a temporary stretch cavity. The possibility of your attacker being under the influence of some sort of drug like PCP can negate pain and shock allowing him to continue toward you. Only a hit to the brain or spine gives you the best chance of a quick (not a one stop shot) stop. Penetration and momentum gets the bullet through the skull or chest cavity deep enough to hit the spinal cord. So, I carry the heaviest bullet in the caliber I carry and use an ogive that assures reliable function with expansion being the lesser of thought.

Scott

NG VI
01-13-2009, 12:50
Typically the XTP bullet is known for deep penetration and its expansion is nothing to write home about. Most modern hollow points expand more then the XTP, however in my opinion the XTP is one of the most accurate bullets ever designed.


That's all there is to it, the XTP shows unspectacular expansion, but as a result it penetrates very well and people also seem to get some very nice accuracy results out of it. Nothing wrong with it at all, but if expansion is your heaviest-weighted requirement for a carry load then the XTP isn't really what you are looking for.

thegriz18
01-13-2009, 13:13
I'm a penetration believer. I am fine with .58-.65 expansion as long as it hits stuff. My number one is shot placement, followed by penetration. I would be fine with FMJ rounds since I don't really know how much a difference it makes between a JHP and an FMJ when you hit the CNS/Heart.

I do see a tad bit of truth to the higher velocity = more tissue damage argument, and if I can have both that and penetration that would be great. Between the 155 and 180 grain TAP loads, with my desires, should I lean toward the 155 grain load? Will that give me my desired penetration (11+ inches)?
Thanks

JohnnyReb
01-13-2009, 13:42
I'm a penetration believer. I am fine with .58-.65 expansion as long as it hits stuff. My number one is shot placement, followed by penetration. I would be fine with FMJ rounds since I don't really know how much a difference it makes between a JHP and an FMJ when you hit the CNS/Heart.

I do see a tad bit of truth to the higher velocity = more tissue damage argument, and if I can have both that and penetration that would be great. Between the 155 and 180 grain TAP loads, with my desires, should I lean toward the 155 grain load? Will that give me my desired penetration (11+ inches)?
Thanks

If you had the "perfect shot" sure, FMJ would serve you fine. However, in my opinion, I'd rather have a round that expands to give me the best possible chance of hitting vital organs/CNS. I would much rather have a .65 chance at hitting a vital, then a .40 chance. Not to mention I would rather not have a FMJ round exit the BG and hit a family member, so I want the bullet to expand and dump its energy in its target. (I'm not referring to the energy dump theory)

The XTP in both offerings should provide you the penetration you are looking for in both the 155gr and 180gr offerings. Given the choice, I'd choose the 180gr. I don't care much for the snappiness of the 155 gr.

NG VI
01-13-2009, 13:48
Between the 155 and 180 grain TAP loads, with my desires, should I lean toward the 155 grain load? Will that give me my desired penetration (11+ inches)?



Oh yes. I think the XTPs usually get fifteen to seventeen inches. The carry load I like in my .40s is the 165/180 HST, which will get 13-14 inches penetration, with the 180 expanding a hair more and the 165 penetrating two hairs or less more. I like the 165 because it performs very well and is a pretty warm .40 load as well, 1140 feet per second, but only gives up 15 grains from the 140 FPS slower 180. Honestly though I have more 180s and when I switch to a different carry gun for some reason and then back to a .40 I tend to switch weights, or have the spare magazine loaded with the weight not in the gun. Don't know why, I'm just peculiar.

thegriz18
01-13-2009, 14:00
As to FMJ ammo- I simply don't feel under gunned with it. And more than over penetration we have to worry about complete misses. I'm more worried about that than over penetration.

The XTP's would be competing against the 165 grain Gold Dot that is my current round. Thoughts on that?

NG VI
01-13-2009, 14:05
Personally, I'd go with the Gold Dot, but that is just me. Both penetrate adequately, but the Gold Dot expands more and is bonded.

Boris Bush
01-13-2009, 14:31
XTPs expand consistantly and reliabley. They work as designed, to expand and penetrate.

They will not expand like a silvertip, but will out penetrate it

Self defense shootings are dynamic. You might be on the ground shooting up. You might need to penetrate 10 or more inches before your bullet gets to where it needs to start doing its job. You might have to shoot someone quartering to or from you, that needs penetration. You will not have an attacker put his arms to his side and square off with you so you can get that perfect COM shot. Knives, guns, clubs, Whoppers, or what not might be held infront of the person attacking you (not just standing there static, waiting to be shot). Look at your arm. It is not gello. You have skin, dense muscle, bone then more skin to exit. Then you have to penetrate again with an already expanded projectile. That projectile has alot of work to do still. A deeper penetrating bullet that is designed to expand relaibley and to a smaller diameter will do that and that is why the XTP was designed.

You will never have to shoot a IDPA target to save your life. You will never shoot a block of gello to save your life. Forget energy and super whizzey math formulas. When it is all said and done if the bullet does not get where it needs to go, you won't go where you want to go.........


I feel fine with ball also. I will take it anyday over a light shallow penetrating round no matter what numbers on paper or the glow thing infront of me says.............

thegriz18
01-13-2009, 16:20
I agree Boris!

So should I give the 180 grain XTP's a shot Saturday and put my Gold Dots back in the box?

AJSully421
01-13-2009, 16:28
in .45 i'm a fan of the HST as it expands lots... but it also consistently penetrates 14.5 inches... with the .40 there is more of a trade-off required.

I must elaborate on one thing before i continue... to me, to "incapacitate" an attacker is to make him so that he cannot even hold a gun and fire it at me... in what sort of condition must a human being be in to not even be able to hold up a 2 pound gun, and pull a 5 pound trigger? darn near dead!

When i say "stop" i mean no longer willing to fight, even if they still can fight... i tend to agree with the point that "stops" are achieved by:

1: Shot placement.
2: mental "shock" value of being shot, and the desire not to be shot again.
3: In rare cases, the mere presence of your gun will make a guy stop.

this is all well and good until you face an attacker who is motivated, or drugged up out of his mind, and will not stop... they MUST be incapacitated.

and that incapacitating part is best achieved, in order, by:

1: CNS hit... you cannot fire a gun at me without "electricity".
2: Heart- direct shot... the plumbing.
3. Lung... have to breathe to fight, but this takes time to incapicitate..
4. Bleed out... by far the slowest of the above to incapacitate an attacker.


So, what i am looking for is something that i can get a CNS hit with (needs penetration) a heart or lung shot, or lots of holes to bleed from. I am not advocating FMJ, as i feel that a HP that expands from .40 to .70 will have a better chance of hitting something that the .40 that stays a .40 might miss.

But, if given the choice, i will choose something that penetrates deeper more than expands to a greater diameter as i feel that two holes bleed better than one, if that is what i have to rely on to eventually incapacitate my attacker, then i want it to.

XTP is a good round for more penetration, as is the GS and GD in the heavier loadings. The HST is a better expander.

Shalashaska
01-13-2009, 17:40
I carried 155 gr. XTP for over a year. I switched to TAP 155gr. CQ a while back. I just now switched to 180gr. HST because it offers a better penetration range than the 155gr. XTP does, and better expansion. I'd prefer my round to penetrate more than enough than just cutting the line in the safe penetration range. There are too many factors that come into play that could hinder penetration. The 180gr. TAP seems like a safe choice.

http://www.hornadyle.com/products/more_detail.php?id=34&sID=69&pID=1

shark_za
01-14-2009, 02:56
My praise for the round comes more from other factors than terminal ballistics.

The XTP's I have crono'd all show really small extreme spread of velocity, they are loaded precisely!
The rounds themselves are without peer as far as quality of assembly goes.
The primers, the bullets, all perfect.
VERY reliable and accurate. Good profile for feed reliability in a wide variety of guns.
In my G23 and 27 this is academic but they will work every time.

J.P.
01-14-2009, 04:31
Go here:
http://www.hornadyle.com/

....and click the "Ammunition Test Report and Application Guide" (pdf) at the bottom left.

It has ballistic testing info for the entire TAP line.
In Hornady's own tests, the .40S&W 180gr TAP is the best performing round they offer.
Additionally, it's the same round I carry daily in me G23.

thegriz18
01-14-2009, 11:02
Go here:
http://www.hornadyle.com/

....and click the "Ammunition Test Report and Application Guide" (pdf) at the bottom left.

It has ballistic testing info for the entire TAP line.
In Hornady's own tests, the .40S&W 180gr TAP is the best performing round they offer.
Additionally, it's the same round I carry daily in me G23.

Are they testing the TAP CQ or the TAP FPD? Are both those bullets XTP's?

Shalashaska
01-18-2009, 11:19
Are they testing the TAP CQ or the TAP FPD? Are both those bullets XTP's?

I have both and they appear the same, but they most likely are slightly different.

Jason607
01-18-2009, 12:04
in .45 i'm a fan of the HST as it expands lots... but it also consistently penetrates 14.5 inches... with the .40 there is more of a trade-off required.

I must elaborate on one thing before i continue... to me, to "incapacitate" an attacker is to make him so that he cannot even hold a gun and fire it at me... in what sort of condition must a human being be in to not even be able to hold up a 2 pound gun, and pull a 5 pound trigger? darn near dead!

When i say "stop" i mean no longer willing to fight, even if they still can fight... i tend to agree with the point that "stops" are achieved by:

1: Shot placement.
2: mental "shock" value of being shot, and the desire not to be shot again.
3: In rare cases, the mere presence of your gun will make a guy stop.

this is all well and good until you face an attacker who is motivated, or drugged up out of his mind, and will not stop... they MUST be incapacitated.

and that incapacitating part is best achieved, in order, by:

1: CNS hit... you cannot fire a gun at me without "electricity".
2: Heart- direct shot... the plumbing.
3. Lung... have to breathe to fight, but this takes time to incapicitate..
4. Bleed out... by far the slowest of the above to incapacitate an attacker.


So, what i am looking for is something that i can get a CNS hit with (needs penetration) a heart or lung shot, or lots of holes to bleed from. I am not advocating FMJ, as i feel that a HP that expands from .40 to .70 will have a better chance of hitting something that the .40 that stays a .40 might miss.

But, if given the choice, i will choose something that penetrates deeper more than expands to a greater diameter as i feel that two holes bleed better than one, if that is what i have to rely on to eventually incapacitate my attacker, then i want it to.

XTP is a good round for more penetration, as is the GS and GD in the heavier loadings. The HST is a better expander.


Good point of view/post!

FMJ or a non-expanding bullet might penetrate deep/through the BG but they just make a very thin cavity that won't even bleed much even through both holes, let alone do much tissue damage. Light weight JHP bullets that expands out wide but doesn't penetrate won't get to the critical areas to make the stop. Frangables.... forget about it.

A bullet that expands decently and penetrates deep is ideal. It's going to make a big flat front that is going to tear it's way through the target causing lots of tissue damage, causing all kinds of havoc in it's wake, while penetrating deep. Will .60 really cause any less damage than .70 considering that it is going deeper.

It's wound volume, which is the displacement of damaged tissue that counts.

thegriz18
01-22-2010, 22:28
Thought I would revive this thread from a year ago. Since I posted this I tested the 180 grain TAP load and it sucked. Barely any expansion, clogged HP's through denim, etc... It was no match to the PDX1 or Ranger T, both in 165 grain. I really like Hornady for their quality and consistency. Has anyone chrono'd 155 TAP from a G23 or 4 inch barrel and shot it into some form of test media with a moderate clothing barrier?