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ronduke
01-26-2009, 20:48
Drug Gangs Have Mexico on the Ropes
Law enforcement south of the border is badly outgunned.
By MARY ANASTASIA O'GRADY

A murder in the Mexican state of Chihuahua last week horrified even hardened crime stoppers. Police Commander Martin Castro's head was severed and left in an ice cooler in front of the police station in the town of Praxedis with a calling card from the Sinoloa drug cartel.

According to Mexico's attorney general, 6,616 people died in drug-trafficking violence in Mexico last year. A high percentage of those killed were themselves criminals, but many law enforcement agents battling organized crime were also murdered. The carnage continues. For the first 22 days of this year the body count is 354.


President Felipe Calderón began an assault on organized crime shortly after he took office in December 2006. It soon became apparent that the cartels would stop at nothing to preserve their operations, and that a state commitment to confrontation meant that violence would escalate.

As bad as the violence is, it could get worse, and it is becoming clear that the U.S. faces contagion. In recent months, several important American voices have raised concerns about the risks north of the border. This means there is hope that the U.S. may begin to recognize the connection between American demand for prohibited substances and the rising instability in Mexico.

The brutality of the traffickers is imponderable for most Americans. Commander Castro was not the first Mexican to be beheaded. It is an increasingly popular terror tactic. Last month, eight soldiers and a state police chief were found decapitated in the state of Guerrero.

There is also plenty of old-fashioned mob violence. As Agence France Presse reported on Jan. 19 from Chihuahua, 16 others -- besides Commander Castro -- died in suspected drug-related violence across the state the same night. Six bodies were found, with bullet wounds and evidence of torture, in the state capital. Five of the dead were police officers. On the same day, Reuters reported that Mexican vigilante groups appear to be striking back at the cartels.

Tally all this up and what you get is Mexico on the edge of chaos, and a mess that could easily bleed across the border. The U.S. Joint Forces Command in Norfolk, Va., warned recently that an unstable Mexico "could represent a homeland security problem of immense proportions to the United States." In a report titled "Joint Operating Environment 2008," the Command singles out Mexico and Pakistan as potentially failing states. Both "bear consideration for a rapid and sudden collapse . . . . The Mexican possibility may seem less likely, but the government, its politicians, police, and judicial infrastructure are all under sustained assault and pressure by criminal gangs and drug cartels."

The National Drug Threat Assessment for 2009 says that Mexican drug-trafficking organizations now "control most of the U.S. drug market," with distribution capabilities in 230 U.S. cities. The cartels also "maintain cross border communication centers" that use "voice over Internet Protocol, satellite technology (broadband satellite instant messaging), encrypted messaging, cell phone technology, two-way radios, scanner devices, and text messaging, to communicate with members" and even "high-frequency radios with encryption and rolling codes to communicate during cross-border operations."

Here is how he sees the fight: "The outgunned Mexican law enforcement authorities face armed criminal attacks from platoon-sized units employing night vision goggles, electronic intercept collection, encrypted communications, fairly sophisticated information operations, sea-going submersibles, helicopters and modern transport aviation, automatic weapons, RPG's, Anti-Tank 66 mm rockets, mines and booby traps, heavy machine guns, 50 cal sniper rifles, massive use of military hand grenades, and the most modern models of 40mm grenade machine guns."

How is it that these gangsters are so powerful? Easy. As Gen. McCaffrey notes, Mexico produces an estimated eight metric tons of heroin a year and 10,000 metric tons of marijuana. He also points out that "90% of all U.S. cocaine transits Mexico" and Mexico is "the dominant source of methamphetamine production for the U.S." The drug cartels earn more than $25 billion a year and "repatriate more than $10 billion a year in bulk cash into Mexico from the U.S."

To put it another way, if Mexico is at risk of becoming a failed state, look no further than the large price premium the cartels get for peddling prohibited substances to Americans.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123292962031814007.html#printMode

Morris
01-26-2009, 23:44
Mexico has always been on a razor's edge since I was a kid in San Diego in the late sixties. Friends who have houses there report the decrepit conditions street cops have for equipment and pay. One friend, who is an FFL, tells of pitiful revolvers in poor condition and some officers being allotted less than a handful of bullets. Friends who have immigrated (lawfully) from Mexico fear to return, saying that crime is so pervasive and rampant that it is completely unreal to Americans (who complain when what is considered a minor event).

I have a hunch the Puro will echo some of this from his perspective. However, I really fear and admire those honest souls that work there in an effort to try to keep their society moving. The reality is that criminal and drug gangs could very well turn Mexico into the next Liberia, a nation built of cartels and factions versus states.

I do pray for my honest brothers in Mexico.

SPDSNYPR
01-26-2009, 23:52
This is incredibly disturbing, but not really surprising.

GlockerMike
01-27-2009, 01:27
Watched a show on the History Channel I think it was, a week or so ago, about Los Zetas. I won't say anything more.

http://www.fpri.org/enotes/200805.grayson.loszetas.html

lawman800
01-27-2009, 03:59
Looks like we're headed for a showdown!

ronduke
04-13-2009, 04:06
Auto Thefts Plague Border Region
Mexican Drug Cartels Drive Much of Illicit Vehicle Trade; Laredo, Texas, Is Hit
By CAM SIMPSON
LAREDO, Texas -- This city along the Rio Grande is on the verge of becoming the stolen-car capital of the U.S., according to data set for release Monday that underscore how drug cartels are helping make the U.S.-Mexico border region a hot spot for vehicle thieves.

The National Insurance Crime Bureau, a nonprofit body that collects law-enforcement reports, said 1,960 vehicles were reported stolen in the Laredo metropolitan area last year, an increase of more than 47% since 2005, when Laredo ranked 32nd nationally. That comes to 827 thefts per 100,000 people, putting Laredo just behind No. 1 Modesto, Calif.


Of the 20 U.S. metropolitan regions with the highest theft rates, according to the crime bureau, seven are near the Mexico border: Laredo; San Diego; Albuquerque, N.M.; Tucson, Ariz.; El Centro, Calif.; El Paso, Texas; and Phoenix. El Paso in particular has jumped up the charts; it ranked 17th in 2008, compared with No. 81 in 2005.

While Mexican drug cartels aren't behind every stolen car along the border, police say their money drives the professional side of the trade.

President Barack Obama will visit Mexico this week to show support for President Felipe Calderón, who is using Mexico's military to crack down on the drug cartels behind an epidemic of violence in northern Mexico. The White House says boosting federal law-enforcement efforts on the U.S. side is a priority.

Although drug violence in Laredo is down from the historic highs of a few years ago, people from all walks of life -- including police officers -- are falling prey to roving bands of car thieves.

One Laredo detective's Dodge Durango disappeared from outside his house, with his bulletproof vest and a semiautomatic handgun inside, police say. The local U.S. border-patrol chief recently had his pickup truck stolen, too.

Mindy Casso, a news anchor at the Laredo NBC affiliate, stepped outside one morning to load her two kids into her Ford Ranger, only to find it was gone -- even though a private security car was patrolling her upscale neighborhood.

"It's overwhelming," said Carlos Maldonado, who was named Laredo's police chief last May. "I don't have an officer to put on every car in the city."

Perched on the northern bank of the Rio Grande, the city is the busiest inland port in the U.S., with four bridges to Mexico. On the other side is a key center of the $30 billion-a-year Mexico-U.S. narcotics trade.

Drug cartels have several uses for stolen cars. In some cases, traffickers provide the stolen vehicles to smugglers who move weapons bought in the U.S. across the border, according to a recent internal report by the Department of Homeland Security. It says cars sometimes are "laundered" with different plates.

Using stolen cars makes good business sense for the cartels, which can minimize losses if the vehicles are seized, police say.

Sgt. Eduardo Garcia, 39 years old, has led Laredo's stolen-vehicle task force, with nine men, for about eight years. He says Mexico's traffickers provide wish lists of makes and models to the best thieves -- preferably U.S. citizens who can legally drive an American-plated car into Mexico. Traffickers pay up to about $1,000 apiece for highly valued vehicles, such as new Ford or Dodge pickup trucks.

Usually, police say, thieves work in three- or four-man teams. "Spotters" will find the cars they want, then quickly dispatch a car filled with thieves.

The city of Laredo runs along the Rio Grande, meaning Mexico is just a few minutes away from almost any spot in town. "If it's stolen at 3 [p.m.], for example, it's in Mexico by 3:05," Sgt. Garcia said. The city has tried to use license-plate readers to detect stolen cars, but the vehicles are frequently over the border before their owners even know they have been stolen.

Detectives patrol the thieves' favorite areas, hoping to spot the crooks before they strike. But as the police watch the thieves, the thieves also watch the police. Although the city swaps undercover cars driven by auto-theft detectives every six to eight months, thieves often pinpoint the police cars. After his arrest last week, a ringleader rattled off the models driven by two detectives, Sgt. Garcia said.

Laredo police have few ways to track the traffickers calling the shots, who are largely in Mexico. Because of fears they would be targeted by drug cartels, the city's police officers are barred from crossing into Mexico. And Arturo Galvan, the longest-serving member of the task force, said corruption on the Mexican side has made it impossible even to work by phone. "Who can you trust?" he asked.

One tactic has proven effective: makeshift checkpoints on the city's busiest thoroughfare to Mexico, known as Bridge No. 2.

Manning the checkpoint one evening last week, Sgt. Garcia stood amid two lanes of traffic rolling into Mexico, his eyes darting back and forth for telltale signs: a valued vehicle, such as an expensive pickup truck, with a young male driver and no passengers. Then he looked for other signs, such as damage on a door handle or keyhole.

Many thieves get by when his overburdened team isn't watching. Still, Sgt. Garcia said that the checkpoints are effective. Police have noticed that when the checkpoints are manned, patrol car lights flashing, the number of reported thefts goes down.

"What we can do," Sgt. Garcia said, "is be a deterrent."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123958239081212259.html

evilwill
04-13-2009, 09:14
imagine how many more index crimes they would have if 80% of their population wasn't here in the US :shocked:

shooter757
04-13-2009, 09:23
Mexico is a great example of how strict gun laws decrease violence

Hack
04-13-2009, 10:55
The only sure cure is for us to help out the legitimate Mexican forces, with their permission. However, we're so tied up elsewhere, I don't see us doing it any time real soon. Maybe it's time for strength increases in National Guard. They are over strength by current standards, but you would think it could be changed. Then deploy half of the units along the border.

That and work with legitimate LE in Mexico.

lawman800
04-13-2009, 12:12
imagine how many more index crimes they would have if 80% of their population wasn't here in the US :shocked:

It's the massive remittance out of the country that scares me. Our money is escaping us off-shore.

WiskyT
04-13-2009, 16:18
Mexico, beautiful beaches, lots of oil, great food, wonderful people, and it's a mess. It just goes to show you how much a goverment can **** something up.

blueiron
04-13-2009, 18:18
Mexico has been a mess for at least the past two generations. Without direct foreign aid from the U.S., indirect aid from what their people sent home from here, and with the criminals in the ultra corrupt dominant political party - P.R.I. repressing the people and encouraging illegal immigration, they would have had a revolution by now.

P.R.I. refuses to build up the middle class, preferring to continue political patronage and favoritism. This alienates those who want to get ahead and they come here for better pay and a better life. The Mexican criminal class has learned to come to the U.S. to prey on the Mexicans here and then run for the border before they are caught. The drug trade gets bigger every year and if they wanted the country, I strongly suspect they could wrest it from the Army and the ruling class in order to build a narco-state.

Mexico has become a failed nation-state and it is going to get far worse for them and for the U.S. very soon.

lawman800
04-13-2009, 18:58
Mexico, beautiful beaches, lots of oil, great food, wonderful people, and it's a mess. It just goes to show you how much a goverment can **** something up.

Yep. There's nothing a government can't destroy if they put their collective heads together in the name of trying to "improve" it. Look at us.

APD
04-13-2009, 23:29
Mexico is a third world country...expect anything less?

If we were not their neighbor they would set a precedent as being then ranked a fourth world country.:crying:

lawman800
04-14-2009, 00:35
Mexico is a third world country...expect anything less?

If we were not their neighbor they would set a precedent as being then ranked a fourth world country.:crying:

If you get the corrupt government out of Mexico it would instantly be a 2nd world country. How's that for a solution?:whistling:

steve1988
04-14-2009, 00:51
Drug Gangs Have Mexico on the Ropes
Law enforcement south of the border is badly outgunned.
By MARY ANASTASIA O'GRADY

A murder in the Mexican state of Chihuahua last week horrified even hardened crime stoppers. Police Commander Martin Castro's head was severed and left in an ice cooler in front of the police station in the town of Praxedis with a calling card from the Sinoloa drug cartel.

According to Mexico's attorney general, 6,616 people died in drug-trafficking violence in Mexico last year. A high percentage of those killed were themselves criminals, but many law enforcement agents battling organized crime were also murdered. The carnage continues. For the first 22 days of this year the body count is 354.


President Felipe Calderón began an assault on organized crime shortly after he took office in December 2006. It soon became apparent that the cartels would stop at nothing to preserve their operations, and that a state commitment to confrontation meant that violence would escalate.

As bad as the violence is, it could get worse, and it is becoming clear that the U.S. faces contagion. In recent months, several important American voices have raised concerns about the risks north of the border. This means there is hope that the U.S. may begin to recognize the connection between American demand for prohibited substances and the rising instability in Mexico.

The brutality of the traffickers is imponderable for most Americans. Commander Castro was not the first Mexican to be beheaded. It is an increasingly popular terror tactic. Last month, eight soldiers and a state police chief were found decapitated in the state of Guerrero.

There is also plenty of old-fashioned mob violence. As Agence France Presse reported on Jan. 19 from Chihuahua, 16 others -- besides Commander Castro -- died in suspected drug-related violence across the state the same night. Six bodies were found, with bullet wounds and evidence of torture, in the state capital. Five of the dead were police officers. On the same day, Reuters reported that Mexican vigilante groups appear to be striking back at the cartels.

Tally all this up and what you get is Mexico on the edge of chaos, and a mess that could easily bleed across the border. The U.S. Joint Forces Command in Norfolk, Va., warned recently that an unstable Mexico "could represent a homeland security problem of immense proportions to the United States." In a report titled "Joint Operating Environment 2008," the Command singles out Mexico and Pakistan as potentially failing states. Both "bear consideration for a rapid and sudden collapse . . . . The Mexican possibility may seem less likely, but the government, its politicians, police, and judicial infrastructure are all under sustained assault and pressure by criminal gangs and drug cartels."

The National Drug Threat Assessment for 2009 says that Mexican drug-trafficking organizations now "control most of the U.S. drug market," with distribution capabilities in 230 U.S. cities. The cartels also "maintain cross border communication centers" that use "voice over Internet Protocol, satellite technology (broadband satellite instant messaging), encrypted messaging, cell phone technology, two-way radios, scanner devices, and text messaging, to communicate with members" and even "high-frequency radios with encryption and rolling codes to communicate during cross-border operations."

Here is how he sees the fight: "The outgunned Mexican law enforcement authorities face armed criminal attacks from platoon-sized units employing night vision goggles, electronic intercept collection, encrypted communications, fairly sophisticated information operations, sea-going submersibles, helicopters and modern transport aviation, automatic weapons, RPG's, Anti-Tank 66 mm rockets, mines and booby traps, heavy machine guns, 50 cal sniper rifles, massive use of military hand grenades, and the most modern models of 40mm grenade machine guns."

How is it that these gangsters are so powerful? Easy. As Gen. McCaffrey notes, Mexico produces an estimated eight metric tons of heroin a year and 10,000 metric tons of marijuana. He also points out that "90% of all U.S. cocaine transits Mexico" and Mexico is "the dominant source of methamphetamine production for the U.S." The drug cartels earn more than $25 billion a year and "repatriate more than $10 billion a year in bulk cash into Mexico from the U.S."

To put it another way, if Mexico is at risk of becoming a failed state, look no further than the large price premium the cartels get for peddling prohibited substances to Americans.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123292962031814007.html#printMode (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123292962031814007.html#printMode)

If you are going to buy drugs, please buy American.

:patriot:

AZ Husker
04-14-2009, 01:07
Why in the world would the Mexican Government honestly try to stop the flow of drugs and illegal immigrants into the United States? Both return huge amounts of cash to their economy. Until we shut off our aid to them and force them to deal with their own problems, nothing will change.

lawman800
04-14-2009, 01:21
Why in the world would the Mexican Government honestly try to stop the flow of drugs and illegal immigrants into the United States? Both return huge amounts of cash to their economy. Until we shut off our aid to them and force them to deal with their own problems, nothing will change.

But that would just be racist and where's your compassion for your fellow man?!??!?!?:whistling:

blueiron
04-14-2009, 01:23
That will never happen as of now.

If illegal aliens and U.S. dollars are stopped, the civil unrest will begin in earnest and the citizens will revolt against the government, with the narco-gangs support. Before the government collapses, we'd see hundreds of thousands to millions of refugees flooding across the border in a period of a few months. It would overwhelm the border states and the U.S. military would have to respond. There aren't enough U.S. troops to deal with this scenario and they'd end up fighting the remnants of the Mexican Army and the narco-gangs.

The U.S. is willingly being allowed to absorb some of the crisis and we are betting that the Mexican government can stem the tide. Unfortunately, the Mexican police, even the FJP, can't get it done. The Mexican Army is their last resort and it isn't going well for them.

This adminstration's plan [along with the past few] has been to hope for a turnaround and as someone once said: 'Hope is not a viable strategy'.

ronduke
04-17-2009, 10:19
U.S. Pledges to Stem Flow of Guns to Help Mexico
By CAM SIMPSON
President Barack Obama on Thursday told Mexican President Felipe Calderón that the U.S. would stem a flow of weapons across the border into Mexico. But while Washington has spent more than $30 billion since the early 1990s to keep illicit goods and illegal immigrants from entering the U.S., it has had virtually nothing in place to check -- let alone stop -- what is flowing out.

Mexican authorities have long pressed the U.S. to do more to stop the southbound trafficking of American-procured weapons, dubbed the "Iron River." But just how little the U.S. has done in the past is on vivid display at border crossings in Laredo, Texas, a town perched on the northern bank of the Rio Grande.

A recent internal government assessment of the gun trade named Laredo as a top pipeline for Mexican drug cartels. Nearly six million passenger vehicles, 1.6 million trucks, 3.8 million pedestrians and nearly 40,000 buses crossed the border in Laredo last year, making it one of the busiest transit points in the nation.

At Laredo's biggest international bridge, checking vehicles for Mexico-bound contraband is such a foreign concept that the U.S. government doesn't even own the six outbound lanes. They belong to the city.

The only infrastructure dedicated to stopping motorists heading south is a toll gate, so Laredo can collect $3 for every passing vehicle. It is the same at the nearby crossing for pedestrians, where the toll is 75 cents.

"Our resources and our equipment are set up to do the northbound examinations," said Eugenio "Gene" Garza, the Laredo port director for U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

Although Mr. Garza has one of the few permanent teams conducting outbound checks along the 2,000-mile border with Mexico, he doesn't have staff for round-the-clock examinations, which he said are crucial to making a difference.

"The key to outbound enforcement is you have to do it 24/7," he said. "That has been the key. When our officers work it, they get these seizures. But, you know, we need to be able to do the same inspections southbound that we do northbound."


Outbound enforcement led to an average of just 183 weapon seizures at all federal ports along the Southwestern border in each of the past four years, according to internal U.S. government data seen by The Wall Street Journal. The assessment estimated that to be less than 1% of the total number of arms flowing south.

Even after Mr. Obama's administration said last month that it would boost enforcement, local police are often the ones who do the checking.

That was the case from 5 p.m. to 11 p.m. one day last week, when the nation's outbound enforcement in Laredo boiled down to Detective Arturo Galvan and another officer, who were aided by a flashlight and battered orange traffic cones.

Just past sunset, as they tried to spot and stop suspect vehicles amid streams of southbound cars and pickup trucks, an automated license-plate scanner flagged the tag of a wanted felon, a man identified as "armed and dangerous."

The scanner is the only piece of gear focused on vehicles leaving the U.S., but Laredo police working the bridge don't have access to its data because it is operated by federal agents. Mr. Galvan learned of the hit when a U.S. Customs and Border Patrol agent scampered toward him from a distant booth on the federal side of the bridge, where 12 lanes of traffic lead into the U.S.

The luxury sport-utility vehicle was already gone.

It would be difficult to imagine a similar scene across the yellow curb dividing the two sides of Laredo's bridge.

Every vehicle coming into the U.S. passes through a radiation-detection portal. Every driver faces an agent. Every tour bus is emptied of passengers and luggage, before it is checked by dogs or scanned by a huge X-ray machine permanently mounted on a flatbed truck. Soon, electronic scanners will read travel documents and the faces of the travelers holding them.

Similarly stringent efforts are apparent at Laredo's port for commercial truck traffic, known as the World Trade Bridge. There, inbound tractor-trailers roll into cement buildings constructed to house massive X-ray machines, or get offloaded by hand in the search for contraband.

To boost outbound enforcement, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano plans to deploy more license-plate scanners along the border, more temporary teams and more X-ray machines. But the police in Laredo, who know the local turf well because they are battling a plague of vehicle thefts, say only an around-the-clock presence will make a real difference.

ZombieKing
04-17-2009, 10:41
The only sure cure is for us to help out the legitimate Mexican forces, with their permission. However, we're so tied up elsewhere, I don't see us doing it any time real soon. Maybe it's time for strength increases in National Guard. They are over strength by current standards, but you would think it could be changed. Then deploy half of the units along the border.

That and work with legitimate LE in Mexico.

Actually the only sure cure is to kill the cash flow of the cartels.

How do we do that? Legalize all drugs and make them so cheap that what would cost you $500 only costs 1 cent.

Forget taxing them. Just get the price down to zero as close as possible.

Once you do that the cost of growing and transporting them becomes too much for the cartels.

All the money we will save by not locking up drug addicts can go towards other things. Addicts want their fix? Give it to them. No medical care of course so if they die doing the drugs then that's on them. They choose that life.

This would not only help Mexico but it would help South America as well.

gifters
04-17-2009, 10:44
I always thought the drug gangs had the Mexican government in there pockets?

WiskyT
04-17-2009, 16:45
Actually the only sure cure is to kill the cash flow of the cartels.

How do we do that? Legalize all drugs and make them so cheap that what would cost you $500 only costs 1 cent.

Forget taxing them. Just get the price down to zero as close as possible.

Once you do that the cost of growing and transporting them becomes too much for the cartels.

All the money we will save by not locking up drug addicts can go towards other things. Addicts want their fix? Give it to them. No medical care of course so if they die doing the drugs then that's on them. They choose that life.

This would not only help Mexico but it would help South America as well.


A couple of flaws in your arguement. First, the cost won't go down. Look at cigarettes. They are 7-8 dollars a pack for a few cents of tobacco.

Second, you will still be locking up addicts. Cut the cost of drugs in half and they will do twice as much. No company will hire them and they will still burgal and rob to get the money. They will still beat their children. They will still drive impaired and kill people. Also, noone gets incarcerated for drug USE. It's a myth. They get incarcerated for selling and the things they do while under the influence.

ZombieKing
04-17-2009, 21:49
A couple of flaws in your arguement. First, the cost won't go down. Look at cigarettes. They are 7-8 dollars a pack for a few cents of tobacco.

Second, you will still be locking up addicts. Cut the cost of drugs in half and they will do twice as much. No company will hire them and they will still burgal and rob to get the money. They will still beat their children. They will still drive impaired and kill people. Also, noone gets incarcerated for drug USE. It's a myth. They get incarcerated for selling and the things they do while under the influence.

Did you miss the part where I said no taxes? That is why cigarettes cost so much.

I don't want to cut the cost of drugs in half. I want them to be free. You want to do drugs? Here you go. Take as much of it as you can oh and btw if you get sick we are just going to let you die unless you have insurance that will cover it. If you somehow survive then consider yourself lucky.

You don't need to steal to get money for drugs. I want you to take them. In fact I want you to take so much you OD on them and remove yourself from the gene pool.

As for your other points...they make no sense....they as you said already do these things. So why complain about them?

Second people get arrested for drug use all the time. I know. I work in a jail. I see them brought in. It's not a myth. Buyers are always getting dragged into my jail. It's not just sellers and what you do under the influence that gets you arrested. Drug users are all over the place in the justice system.

People are going to do drugs no matter how many laws you pass. The war on drugs is a failure with the current strategy. Arresting people and locking them up for buying and using is just wasting space and money. It's time to realize that the only true way to cut into the drug culture is to take the money out of it and to let the addicts burn themselves into an early grave.

It was the same way with alcohol. When it was banned the criminals made in today's dollars what would be billions of dollars. The American mob got it's boost from prohibition. Once it became legal again the cash flow to the criminals dried up and many of the problems associated with illegal alcohol production and use went away.

It's real simple.

Commit a crime while on drugs? 10 years minimum.

Hurt someone during that crime? 20 years minimum.

Kill someone? Life in prison, no parole. Or death penalty.

More drug laws won't work. It's time to go in the opposite direction.

And no I don't use drugs. Never thought of it and I consider anyone who uses drugs to be a blistering idiot of the first degree. I even look at people who drink a lot as potential idiots. I've never understood the logic behind ingesting what is a poison and screwing your brain up.

lawman800
04-18-2009, 01:28
Did you miss the part where I said no taxes? That is why cigarettes cost so much.

I don't want to cut the cost of drugs in half. I want them to be free. You want to do drugs? Here you go. Take as much of it as you can oh and btw if you get sick we are just going to let you die unless you have insurance that will cover it. If you somehow survive then consider yourself lucky.

You don't need to steal to get money for drugs. I want you to take them. In fact I want you to take so much you OD on them and remove yourself from the gene pool.

As for your other points...they make no sense....they as you said already do these things. So why complain about them?

Second people get arrested for drug use all the time. I know. I work in a jail. I see them brought in. It's not a myth. Buyers are always getting dragged into my jail. It's not just sellers and what you do under the influence that gets you arrested. Drug users are all over the place in the justice system.

People are going to do drugs no matter how many laws you pass. The war on drugs is a failure with the current strategy. Arresting people and locking them up for buying and using is just wasting space and money. It's time to realize that the only true way to cut into the drug culture is to take the money out of it and to let the addicts burn themselves into an early grave.

It was the same way with alcohol. When it was banned the criminals made in today's dollars what would be billions of dollars. The American mob got it's boost from prohibition. Once it became legal again the cash flow to the criminals dried up and many of the problems associated with illegal alcohol production and use went away.

It's real simple.

Commit a crime while on drugs? 10 years minimum.

Hurt someone during that crime? 20 years minimum.

Kill someone? Life in prison, no parole. Or death penalty.

More drug laws won't work. It's time to go in the opposite direction.

And no I don't use drugs. Never thought of it and I consider anyone who uses drugs to be a blistering idiot of the first degree. I even look at people who drink a lot as potential idiots. I've never understood the logic behind ingesting what is a poison and screwing your brain up.

The libtards will love giving out drugs for free so they can further enslave the population especially if they are the source but they also will tax the working class to pay for the free drugs and the medical care to the druggies because they are compassionate libs, not heartless like you.

You really think they will not tax you on every ancillary cost they can when they give away drugs?

kirgi08
04-18-2009, 01:40
I always thought the drug gangs had the Mexican government in there pockets?

They did.There current prez is tryin ta change that.If he gets "ousted",all bets are off.'08.

series1811
04-18-2009, 05:40
I always thought the drug gangs had the Mexican government in there pockets?

They did until President Calderon came along. That's what's causing all of the violence. He's the first president they have had to didn't roll over to the drug gangs, and the drug gangs didn't like it one little bit.

The scary thing is that polls show a lot of the Mexican people are ready to give up, and just let the drug gangs control everything again.

lawman800
04-18-2009, 10:07
They did until President Calderon came along. That's what's causing all of the violence. He's the first president they have had to didn't roll over to the drug gangs, and the drug gangs didn't like it one little bit.

The scary thing is that polls show a lot of the Mexican people are ready to give up, and just let the drug gangs control everything again.

That would be cool and just turn over the government to the drug lords and then we can carpet bomb all the government buildings and invite their ministers to functions and then napalm the place. Why not... it will at least free up the reins to let loose the dogs of war!

WiskyT
04-18-2009, 11:47
The libtards will love giving out drugs for free so they can further enslave the population especially if they are the source but they also will tax the working class to pay for the free drugs and the medical care to the druggies because they are compassionate libs, not heartless like you.

You really think they will not tax you on every ancillary cost they can when they give away drugs?


He needs to read a little about the British dumping opium into China to conquer it.

Zombie, go back to school and learn a little about the Boxer rebellion and then you can put your $0.02 in, son! :drillsgt:

And while you're at it, read a little current news about how the whole drugs and prostitution thing is working out in Holland. I've been there and seen what the place is like with my own two eyes, son! :drillsgt:

lawman800
04-18-2009, 11:50
He needs to read a little about the British dumping opium into China to conquer it.

Zombie, go back to school and learn a little about the Boxer rebellion and then you can put your $0.02 in, son.

Yep, that is the easiest way to take over a populace. Drug them into oblivion while pretending to provide comfort that the sheeple will be all too happy to rush to get.

kirgi08
04-18-2009, 13:56
Yep, that is the easiest way to take over a populace. Drug them into oblivion while pretending to provide comfort that the sheeple will be all too happy to rush to get.


Just like they're doing to our kids right here in the US.'08.

lawman800
04-18-2009, 14:05
Just like they're doing to our kids right here in the US.'08.

since the 60s... you mean

ronduke
04-18-2009, 14:39
Grisly slayings brings Mexican drug war to US
PAULINE ARRILLAGA - 4/18/2009 7:53:41 PM

Five men dead in an apartment. In a county that might see five homicides in an entire year, the call over the sheriff's radio revealed little about what awaited law enforcement at a sprawling apartment complex.

A type of crime, and criminal, once foreign to this landscape of blooming dogwoods had arrived in Shelby County. Sheriff Chris Curry felt it even before he laid eyes on the grisly scene. He called the state. The FBI. The DEA. Anyone he could think of.

"I don't know what I've got," he warned them. "But I'm gonna need help."

The five dead men lay scattered about the living room of one apartment in a complex of hundreds.

Some of the men showed signs of torture: Burns seared into their earlobes revealed where modified jumper cables had been clamped as an improvised electrocution device. Adhesive from duct tape used to bind the victims still clung to wrists and faces, from mouths to noses.

As a final touch, throats were slashed open, post-mortem.

It didn't take long for Curry and federal agents to piece together clues: A murder scene, clean save for the crimson-turned-brown stains now spotting the carpet. Just a couple of mattresses tossed on the floor. It was a typical stash house.

But the cut throats? Some sort of ghastly warning.

Curry would soon find this was a retaliation hit over drug money with ties to Mexico's notorious Gulf Cartel.

Curry also found out firsthand what federal drug enforcement agents have long understood. The drug war, with the savagery it brings, knows no bounds. It had landed in his back yard, in the foothills of the Appalachians, in Alabama's wealthiest county, around the corner from The Home Depot.

One thousand, twenty-four miles from the Mexico border.

lawman800
04-18-2009, 14:49
Grisly slayings brings Mexican drug war to US
PAULINE ARRILLAGA - 4/18/2009 7:53:41 PM

Five men dead in an apartment. In a county that might see five homicides in an entire year, the call over the sheriff's radio revealed little about what awaited law enforcement at a sprawling apartment complex.

A type of crime, and criminal, once foreign to this landscape of blooming dogwoods had arrived in Shelby County. Sheriff Chris Curry felt it even before he laid eyes on the grisly scene. He called the state. The FBI. The DEA. Anyone he could think of.

"I don't know what I've got," he warned them. "But I'm gonna need help."

The five dead men lay scattered about the living room of one apartment in a complex of hundreds.

Some of the men showed signs of torture: Burns seared into their earlobes revealed where modified jumper cables had been clamped as an improvised electrocution device. Adhesive from duct tape used to bind the victims still clung to wrists and faces, from mouths to noses.

As a final touch, throats were slashed open, post-mortem.

It didn't take long for Curry and federal agents to piece together clues: A murder scene, clean save for the crimson-turned-brown stains now spotting the carpet. Just a couple of mattresses tossed on the floor. It was a typical stash house.

But the cut throats? Some sort of ghastly warning.

Curry would soon find this was a retaliation hit over drug money with ties to Mexico's notorious Gulf Cartel.

Curry also found out firsthand what federal drug enforcement agents have long understood. The drug war, with the savagery it brings, knows no bounds. It had landed in his back yard, in the foothills of the Appalachians, in Alabama's wealthiest county, around the corner from The Home Depot.

One thousand, twenty-four miles from the Mexico border.

Alabama's wealthiest county, down the street from the ultra-luxe and posh luxury consumer goods store, Home Depot... well... if you're gonna flaunt your wealth like that... you gonna get some unwanted attention, boyeee!

In other news, if those guys were involved in the drug trade... NHI. 10-8.

geminicricket
04-18-2009, 21:40
I always thought the drug gangs had the Mexican government in there pockets?

It's a long story. The U.S. and Columbia did such a good job of interdicting Columbian drug export operations, the export business was taken up by Mexican operators. The PRI has not been in power for almost 12 years.
The PAN under Fox went along and got along with the cartels, but under Calderon the government wants to go Elliot Ness on them and they find themselves burying all their good cops.

BlackPaladin
04-18-2009, 22:50
Did you miss the part where I said no taxes? That is why cigarettes cost so much.

I don't want to cut the cost of drugs in half. I want them to be free. You want to do drugs? Here you go. Take as much of it as you can oh and btw if you get sick we are just going to let you die unless you have insurance that will cover it. If you somehow survive then consider yourself lucky.

You don't need to steal to get money for drugs. I want you to take them. In fact I want you to take so much you OD on them and remove yourself from the gene pool.

As for your other points...they make no sense....they as you said already do these things. So why complain about them?

Second people get arrested for drug use all the time. I know. I work in a jail. I see them brought in. It's not a myth. Buyers are always getting dragged into my jail. It's not just sellers and what you do under the influence that gets you arrested. Drug users are all over the place in the justice system.

People are going to do drugs no matter how many laws you pass. The war on drugs is a failure with the current strategy. Arresting people and locking them up for buying and using is just wasting space and money. It's time to realize that the only true way to cut into the drug culture is to take the money out of it and to let the addicts burn themselves into an early grave.

It was the same way with alcohol. When it was banned the criminals made in today's dollars what would be billions of dollars. The American mob got it's boost from prohibition. Once it became legal again the cash flow to the criminals dried up and many of the problems associated with illegal alcohol production and use went away.

It's real simple.

Commit a crime while on drugs? 10 years minimum.

Hurt someone during that crime? 20 years minimum.

Kill someone? Life in prison, no parole. Or death penalty.

More drug laws won't work. It's time to go in the opposite direction.

And no I don't use drugs. Never thought of it and I consider anyone who uses drugs to be a blistering idiot of the first degree. I even look at people who drink a lot as potential idiots. I've never understood the logic behind ingesting what is a poison and screwing your brain up.

If you don't think this country is screwed up enough already, put this legalize drugs plan into action. I visualize a scene from "I Am Legend", when the things would not come out of the buildings. This of course would be after a few months.

lawman800
04-19-2009, 03:37
It's a long story. The U.S. and Columbia did such a good job of interdicting Columbian drug export operations, the export business was taken up by Mexican operators. The PRI has not been in power for almost 12 years.
The PAN under Fox went along and got along with the cartels, but under Calderon the government wants to go Elliot Ness on them and they find themselves burying all their good cops.

You want to take on the drug gangs, you gotta let loose the dogs of war and unchain the warriors to freely wage war where they find it. Wholesale eradication and extermination is the only solution. You find them, you kill them. It worked for Wyatt Earp on the Cowboys.

You don't fight a junkyard dog with ASPCA rules, to paraphrase a wise man.

ronduke
08-11-2009, 03:24
Mexico’s Drug Traffickers Continue Trade in Prison By MARC LACEY
MEXICO CITY — The surveillance cameras captured it all: guards looking on nonchalantly as 53 inmates — many of them associated with one of Mexico’s most notorious drug cartels — let themselves out of their cells and sped off in waiting vehicles.

The video shows that prison guards only pulled out their weapons after the inmates were well on their way. The brazen escape in May in the northern state of Zacatecas — carried out in minutes without a single shot fired — is just one of many glaring examples of how Mexico’s crowded and cruel prison system represents a critical weak link in the drug war.

Mexico’s prisons, as described by inmates and insiders and viewed during several visits, are places where drug traffickers find a new base of operations for their criminal empires, recruit underlings, and bribe their way out for the right price. The system is so flawed, in fact, that the Mexican government is extraditing record numbers of drug traffickers to the United States, where they find it much harder to intimidate witnesses, run their drug operations or escape.

The latest jailbreak took place this weekend, when a suspected drug trafficker vanished from a Sinaloa prison during a party for inmates featuring a Mexican country music band. The Mexican government is considering isolating drug offenders from regular inmates to reduce opportunities for abuse.

The United States government, as part of its counternarcotics assistance program, is committing $4 million this year to help fix Mexico’s broken prisons, officials said. Experts from state prisons in the United States have begun tutorials for Mexican guards to make sure that there are clear ethical guidelines and professional practices that distinguish them from the men and women they guard. “There’s no point in rounding all these characters up if they are going to get out on their own,” said an American official involved in the training, who was not authorized to speak on the record.

Although Mexican prisons call themselves Centers for Social Rehabilitation, “Universities of crime would be a better name,” said Pedro Héctor Arellano, who runs the prison outreach program in Mexico for the Episcopal Church.

Mexico’s prisons are bursting at the seams, with space for 172,151 inmates nationwide but an additional 50,000 crammed in. More arrive by the day as part of the government’s drug war, which has sent tens of thousands to prison since President Felipe Calderón took office nearly three years ago.

Inside the high concrete walls ringed by barbed wire, past the heavily armed men in black uniforms with stern expressions, inmates rule the roost. Some well-heeled prisoners pay to have keys to their cells. When life inside, with its pizza deliveries, prostitutes and binges on drugs and alcohol, becomes too confining, prisoners sometimes pay off the guards for a furlough or an outright jailbreak.

“Our prisons are businesses more than anything else,” said Pedro Arellano Aguilar, an expert on prisons. He has visited scores of them in Mexico and has come away with a dire view of what takes place inside. “Everything is for sale and everything can be bought.”

Guards Work for Inmates

For drug lords, flush with money, life on the inside is often a continuation of the free-spirited existence they led outside. Inmates look up to them. Guards often become their employees.

For more than a decade, Enrique, a strapping man with a faraway look in his eyes, worked in one of the roughest prisons in Mexico, imposing his will. He assigned prisoners to cell blocks based on the size of the bribes they made. He punished those who stepped out of line.

“I was the boss,” he declared. Not exactly. Enrique, whose story was corroborated by a prisoner advocates’ group, was actually an inmate, serving time inside Reclusorio Preventivo Oriente prison in Mexico City for trafficking cocaine. “It shouldn’t work the way it does,” said Enrique, now released, who asked that his full name not be published so he can resume life after his 12-year sentence.

Miguel Caro Quintero, a major drug trafficker wanted in Arizona and Colorado on charges of supplying multi-ton shipments of marijuana and cocaine to the United States, was jailed for 10 years in Mexico. Federal prosecutors accused him, like many drug lords, of continuing illegal activities from behind bars, using smuggled cellphones to maintain contact with his underlings on the outside and recruiting prisoners who were nearing the end of their sentences.

When his sentence in Mexico was up, he was sent off to the United States to face charges there, becoming one of more than 50 Mexicans, most of them drug offenders, extradited this year.

“When we keep a criminal in a Mexican prison, we run the risk that one way or another they are going to keep in contact with their criminal network,” Leopoldo Velarde, who heads extraditions for the federal attorney general’s office, said. “The idea is to stop criminals, not just jail them.”

Life in Reclusorio Preventivo Oriente prison’s Dormitory No. 9, where many top drug traffickers are held, shows the clout that influential inmates enjoy. The prisoners are a privileged lot, wearing designer clothing and enjoying special privileges ranging from frequent visits by girlfriends to big-screen televisions in their spacious cells, federal prosecutors told local newspapers after one of the inmates recently bought his way out.

Traffickers continue to run their operations through their lieutenants inside the prison as well as outside, using supposedly banned cellphones.

The government says it is moving aggressively to ship off dangerous criminals who are wanted in the United States and are likely to restart their criminal enterprises from jail. Once the legal requirements are met by both governments, the handcuffed suspects are flown by American government agencies to face trial in the United States. Usually the country that requests extradition pays expenses, but American officials said that who pays depends on individual cases.

Since Mr. Calderón came to office in December 2006, his government has surprised the United States by extraditing more than 200 criminal suspects, more than double the rate of predecessors. Based on the legal battles they begin to avoid extradition, it is clear that inmates fear going to the United States. Their support network, prison officials in both countries say, is considerably weaker there.

For years, the Justice Department lobbied Mexico to allow more criminal suspects to face trial in the United States. But until 2005, Mexican court rulings limited extradition to those cases in which neither the death penalty nor life in prison was sought, and Mexican pride about sovereignty made Mexican officials drag their feet. That changed with Mr. Calderón’s resolve to embark on a tougher drug war.

American officials say they are thrilled with the Mexicans’ more aggressive extradition policy. “The best way to disrupt and dismantle a criminal organization is to lock up its leaders and seize their money — so we will work with our Mexican counterparts to locate and extradite, when appropriate, cartel leadership to the United States for prosecution,” Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. said in July.

A Wave of Escapes

The jailbreak in May at the Cieneguillas prison in Zacatecas was just one of several escapes that showed how porous Mexican jails are. The Zetas, a paramilitary group known for its ruthlessness in protecting its drug turf, planned the escape, and have organized jailbreaks in at least four states, Mexican law enforcement officials said. Zacatecas prison has had at least three escapes in recent years.

The situation there is so bad, according to a local lawyer, Uriel Márquez Valerio, that inmates managed to invite a musical group into the prison in 2005 to celebrate the birthday of a drug trafficker, who several weeks later found a way to escape.

In recent weeks, the authorities have managed to catch three of the 53 escapees from May and have thrown 51 prison officials, including the director, into jail while the investigation into collusion in the escape continues. The prime piece of evidence against the prison employees was the surveillance system they were supposed to use to monitor inmates. The video, leaked by law enforcement officials and now available on YouTube, recorded the jailbreak in detail.

It was clearly an inside job, one that prompted Interpol to issue an international alert for 11 of the escapees, who were deemed “a risk to the safety and security of citizens around the world.”

One of the escapees, Osvaldo García Delgado, a 27-year-old trafficker with the nickname Vampire, said after he had been re-arrested that the Zetas planned the breakout. Carefully plotted for weeks, the operation was designed to release some top Zeta commanders. Scores of lower-level Zetas were taken along as well.

The Vampire told police interrogators that the prisoners were awakened early one morning and told to dress in their best clothes. He expressed surprise that the guards were doing no guarding that day but instead had become instrumental players in the escape plan.

The men carrying out the escape were dressed in federal police uniforms and drove what appeared to be police vehicles, with lights, sirens and official-looking decals affixed to the sides. There was a helicopter flying overhead as well, giving the operation the air of legitimacy. Since drug cartels frequently recruit law enforcement officials as allies, it is never clear in Mexico whether they will in fact enforce the law — or whether they are impostors.

In this case, the authorities later disclosed that the uniforms worn by the gunmen who carried out the escape were either outright fakes or outdated outfits. The vehicles, which screeched away from the scene with sirens blaring, were not actual police-issue either, the authorities said. All that said, investigators have not ruled out the possibility that corrupt law enforcement officials helped carry out the operation.

After the latest escape, federal authorities have begun interviewing prison workers to determine how Orso Iván Gastélum Cruz, who was arrested by the army in 2005, disappeared Sunday from jail in Sinaloa, where one of Mexico’s major drug cartels is based.

Last July, Luis Gonzaga Castro Flores, a trafficker working for the powerful Sinaloa Cartel, bought his way out of Reclusorio Preventivo Oriente prison, where he was described by the local media as the godfather of Dormitory No. 9, the area where many drug prisoners are kept.

Other detainees escape before ever getting to prison or while being transferred to court, often with the aid of their cartel colleagues as well as complicit guards. In March, an armed group opened fire on a police convoy outside Mexico City, freeing five drug traffickers who were being taken to prison.

The government acknowledges it does not have full control of its prisons, but it attributes part of the problem to its aggressive roundup of drug traffickers. Escapes are on the rise, a top federal law enforcement official, Luis Cárdenas Palomino, told reporters recently, because the government was locking up so many leading operatives that it was getting harder for the cartels to function.

A Space Crunch

Mexico’s prison system is a mishmash of federal, state and local facilities of varying quality. The most dangerous prisoners are supposed to be housed in maximum security federal facilities, but there is nowhere near enough space. So the federal government pays the states to take in drug traffickers and other federal prisoners in their far less secure lockups.

From August through December 2008, in the most recent statistics available, state prisons across Mexico reported 36 violent episodes with 80 deaths, 162 injuries and 27 escapes, the government said. There was no breakdown in those statistics of how much of the violence was linked to traffickers, but experts said prisoners involved in the drug trade tend to be the most fierce and trouble-prone of all.

“These are clear signals that the penal system, as it is currently organized, is not meeting its primary obligation of guarding inmates efficiently and safely while they serve their sentences,” the federal government’s recently released strategic plan on prisons said of the string of assaults and escapes.

To relieve the congestion and better control the inmates, the government is planning a prison-building spree that will add tens of thousands of new beds in the coming years. One goal, officials say, is to keep drug lords separate from petty criminals as well as the many people who have been imprisoned but never convicted, thus reducing their ability to recruit new employees.

The government is also focusing on personnel, boosting guards’ pay, putting them through a newly created training academy and screening them for corruption. Mexico recently sent several dozen of its guards to beef up their skills at the training academy used by the New Mexico Department of Corrections.

All of the trainees, even guards with 15 years’ experience, had to start with the basics, shining their boots, cleaning out dormitory toilets and listening to lectures on how conniving inmates can be in trying to win over weak-willed guards.

Some of those Mexican guards who are now active participants in Mexico’s deeply flawed penal system say they welcome the moves toward professionalism.

One prison guard acknowledged, “We have guns, but we know it is them, not us, who really control things.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/11/world/americas/11prisons.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=all

ronduke
08-24-2009, 00:51
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/08/21/goulston.boat.off.trailer.wfsb

American teens as hired guns 3:23
CNN's Ed Lavandera reports on two American teens serving long prison terms for carrying out hits for a Mexican drug cartel.

nelsone
08-24-2009, 15:11
I am really sorry to be the one to break the news to you guys, but Mexico has ALREADY caved, decriminalizing possession of "small" quantities of ALL drugs, including heroin and meth.

http://features.csmonitor.com/globalnews/2009/08/24/mexico-quietly-decriminalizes-drug-use/

Don't ask me what constitutes a safe dosage of crack or crank - they say that crooked cops are the problem, who are extorting drug users for bribes. Right, sure, good thinking: the LEO's are causing the drug war!

It's a novel approach, I'll admit - If crime is too high, decriminalize it all - drug use first - the kidnappings and decapitations will be legalized later.

Now, how high is that barrier fence? It ain't enough.

Beware Owner
08-24-2009, 15:28
I'd say that we need a window of time to let OUR troops handle it the best way they know how...

lawman800
08-24-2009, 19:53
I'd say that we need a window of time to let OUR troops handle it the best way they know how...

I don't even know if they know what they know best anymore with this new administration going after CIA interrogators who may or may not have done things to protect our country but yet, no problems if you are caught on camera intimidating voters and yelling racial epithets.

Hack
08-24-2009, 19:56
I don't even know if they know what they know best anymore with this new administration going after CIA interrogators who may or may not have done things to protect our country but yet, no problems if you are caught on camera intimidating voters and yelling racial epithets.

I think there are those who know best, but it would literally take all command authority to do what needs to be done. It would have to start from within our own government.

lawman800
08-24-2009, 20:51
I think there are those who know best, but it would literally take all command authority to do what needs to be done. It would have to start from within our own government.

In other words, never going to happen in the next 4 years.

Hack
08-24-2009, 21:08
In other words, never going to happen in the next 4 years.

Well, there is a way. But, he surrounds himself with those whom he thinks he can keep an eye on or trust for a reason.

matthewa5
08-24-2009, 21:30
I recently watched Drug Wars: Silver or Lead on netflix. It is truely infuriating how brazen the Mexican drug cartels are.. i mean, how can we allow multiple incursions across our border by corrupt Mexican Army?! And what is even more infuriating is that our government is well aware of these issues yet chooses to ignore those on the frontlines of the drug war.. its all politics.. sickening..

lawman800
08-24-2009, 21:35
I recently watched Drug Wars: Silver or Lead on netflix. It is truely infuriating how brazen the Mexican drug cartels are.. i mean, how can we allow multiple incursions across our border by corrupt Mexican Army?! And what is even more infuriating is that our government is well aware of these issues yet chooses to ignore those on the frontlines of the drug war.. its all politics.. sickening..

Good to see you back, PJMN!

A6Gator
08-25-2009, 07:55
In other words, never going to happen in the next 4 years.

You're right. We don't have the political will. Besides, the Master of Distraction is working on something else to keep people's minds off of Cap & Tax, Health Care "reform" and the amount of crushing debt he's rolling up.

Beware Owner
08-25-2009, 08:43
I wouldn't mind having the drug cartels dubbed terrorist groups and deal with them accordingly.

WiskyT
08-26-2009, 15:44
I wouldn't mind having the drug cartels dubbed terrorist groups and deal with them accordingly.

We let terrorist go now. You might want to come up with something a bit more harsh.

lawman800
08-27-2009, 01:14
I wouldn't mind having the drug cartels dubbed terrorist groups and deal with them accordingly.

You mean... "Man-made disaster groups"? Why would you do that? So we can give them $900M for rebuilding like we did with the PLO, which is also a terrorist group?

Terrorist groups get love under this administration. If you want them to be dealt with harshly by everyone including the MSM, have drug cartels dubbed "conservative think tanks", "conservative talk radio", "CIA interrogators", "Rush Limbaugh", "Fox News", "Capitalists", or simply, "Republicans".

ronduke
09-04-2009, 11:07
Gunmen kill 17 people at a drug rehab in Mexico
Associated Press - 9/3/2009 5:30:00 AM
CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico- Gunmen broke into a drug rehabilitation center and shot 17 people dead in a northern Mexican border city, an official said.


The attackers on Wednesday broke down the door of El Aliviane center in Ciudad Juarez, lined up their victims against a wall and opened fire, said Arturo Sandoval, a spokesman for the regional prosecutors' office. At least five people were injured.

Authorities had no immediate suspects or information on the victims. Ciudad Juarez, across the border from El Paso, Texas, is Mexico's most violent city, with at least 1,400 people killed this year alone.

Most of the homicides are tied to drug gang violence, which has taken a heavy toll across Mexico. Earlier the same day, gunmen ambushed and killed a senior security official in the home state of President Felipe Calderon.

Dozens of sobbing relatives rushed to the rehabilitation center to find out if their loved ones were among the dead. Soldiers and federal agents patrolled the streets surrounding the center in the Bellavista neighborhood.

Calderon sent thousands more troops and federal police to Ciudad Juarez earlier this year, but the surge has done little to stem the raging violence. The city is home to the Juarez drug cartel, which is battling other gangs for trafficking and dealing turf.

The government is struggling to revamp Ciudad Juarez's police force, which is plagued by corruption and the assassination of many of its officers. Other police have quit the force out of fear of being targeted.

The massacre capped a particularly bloody day in Mexico's relentless drug war.

Gunmen killed the No. 2 security official and three other people in Calderon's home state of Michoacan, where the government is locked in an intensifying battle with the ruthless La Familia cartel, blamed for a string of assassinations of police and soldiers.

Jose Manuel Revuelta, who was promoted less than two weeks ago to state deputy public safety director, is the highest-ranking government official killed in the wave of assassinations sweeping Michoacan, the cradle of La Familia drug cartel.

Attackers drove up alongside Revuelta as he headed home and opened fire, state Attorney General Jesus Montejano said.

Revuelta tried to speed away, but only made it a few blocks before he was intercepted by two vehicles. Six gunmen got out and sprayed Revuelta's car with bullets, killing him, two bodyguards and a truck driver caught in the crossfire, Montejano said.

An AP reporter at the scene saw the bodies of Revuelta and his bodyguards in the car, which had at least 15 bullet holes in the front windshield. Soldiers and federal police rushed to the site _ just three blocks from the headquarters of the Michoacan Public Safety Department _ and a helicopter circled overhead.

Soldiers and federal police have intensified their fight against La Familia since accusing the cartel of killing 18 federal agents and two soldiers last month. In the worst attack, 12 federal agents were slain and their tortured bodies piled along a roadside as a warning.
It was the boldest cartel attack yet on Mexico's government. Authorities said say La Familia was retaliating for the arrest of one of its top members.

The government has since rounded up more La Familia suspects, including Luis Ricardo Magana, who is alleged to have controlled methamphetamine shipments to the United States for the gang. Days before his capture, prosecutors detained the mother of reputed La Familia leader Servando "La Tuta" Gomez despite his threat to retaliate if police bothered his family. The woman was released after two days "for lack of evidence" of involvement in the cartel.

An AP reporter at the scene saw the bodies of Revuelta and his bodyguards in the car, which had at least 15 bullet holes in the front windshield. Soldiers and federal police rushed to the site _ just three blocks from the headquarters of the Michoacan Public Safety Department _ and a helicopter circled overhead.

Calderon first launched his crackdown against drug cartels in Michoacan, sending thousands of federal police and soldiers to his home state after taking office in late 2006. Tens of thousands more have since been deployed to drug hotspots across Mexico.

Drug gang violence has since surged, claiming more than 13,500 lives, including more than 1,000 police officers.

Calderon defended his battle against drug trafficking in a speech to Congress on Wednesday. He said the government has taken on the cartels as no previous Mexican administration has dared to do.

"As never before, we have weakened the logistical and financial structure of crime," the president told legislators.

The federal Attorney General's Office, meanwhile, announced the arrest of its two top officials in Quintana Roo, a state on the Yucatan Peninsula, for allegedly protecting the Gulf and the Beltran Levya drug cartels.

Officials provided no further details on the allegations against the prosecutors, who were ordered jailed by a court Wednesday pending the investigation.

ronduke
11-06-2009, 13:06
Amid Rising Violence, Mexicans Fight Back
Government Efforts to Control Drug Turf Wars Aren't Enough, Some Say; Mayor Promises to 'Clean Up' Organized Crime
By DAVID LUHNOW and JOSé DE CóRDOBA
MEXICO CITY -- Mexico's war on drugs took a grim twist this week, as a prominent mayor said he had created an undercover group of operatives to "clean up" criminal elements -- even if it had to act outside the law. Underscoring why the mayor may have felt compelled to take such steps, the new police chief in a neighboring town, a retired brigadier general, was shot and killed Wednesday, four days after taking up his post.


The events shed light on the state of Mexico's battle to try to control powerful drug cartels and stop the turf wars between rival gangs that have killed an estimated 14,000 people since President Felipe Calderón took office in December 2006. Frustrated with the government's approach, Mexicans are searching for other solutions.

Mayors and state governors across the country say they feel powerless to control the traffickers, who have corrupted local and state police to such a degree that they are considered part of the problem, rather than part of the solution. Mr. Calderón has sent 45,000 army troops to various Mexican states to try to stem the violence, but the killings have continued, with more than 6,300 people dead in drug-related violence so far this year, according to Mexican newspaper estimates.

On Wednesday alone, 29 people died in killings in Mexico believed to be drug-related, including the police chief.

In a separate incident in the northern city of Ciudad Juárez, just across the border from El Paso, Texas, masked gunmen walked into a strip club and killed six men. Among the dead was a U.S. Air Force staff sergeant, the Air Force said.

Ciudad Juárez, where American companies such as car-parts maker Delphi Corp. and electric-controls maker Honeywell Inc. operate assembly plants, has been caught in the crossfire between two rival cartels trying to control drug smuggling across the border. There have been more than 2,000 drug-related killings in the city this year, making it the murder capital of the world, according to Mexico City-based Citizen Center for Security, a local citizens' group.

Also Wednesday, in the northern town of García, near the industrial hub of Monterrey in Nuevo León state, the town's new police chief, retired Brig. Gen. Juan Arturo Esparza, was gunned down in an attack by some 30 assailants believed to be working for a drug cartel. Five of his bodyguards also died.

Mr. Esparza was responding to a call for help from García's mayor, who told the police chief that five vehicles with heavily armed men had just sprayed his house with bullets. Mr. Esparza had just taken over as police chief on Oct. 31. He is one of scores of military men taking over policing duties across Mexico because of police corruption.

On Thursday, Mexican soldiers entered the town and held some 60 policemen for questioning about the killings, stripping the police of their weapons.


The events in García highlight why mayors across Mexico feel under siege. Some appear to be taking matters into their own hands. The mayor of the nearby municipality of San Pedro Garza García, Mauricio Fernández, a scion of a wealthy and prominent family, said this week that he created a special group to "clean up" criminal elements in the municipality -- even if it had to act outside the law.

His comments came a day after four men who allegedly ran a kidnapping ring in San Pedro were found dead in Mexico City on Saturday. The men, led by Héctor "The Black" Saldaña, were believed responsible for multiple kidnappings in San Pedro and neighboring Monterrey, according to police in Monterrey and San Pedro. The four are believed to be tied to a drug cartel, police said.

The men's bodies showed signs of torture, Mexico City police said, and next to them lay a note: "That's for being a kidnapper. Signed: The boss of bosses. Job 38:15." The Bible passage from the Book of Job reads "The wicked are denied their light, and their upraised arm is broken."

Mr. Fernández took his oath of office on Saturday, delivering a speech in which he told a crowd of supporters that he had good news: Mr. Saldaña and his accomplices, who had terrorized the town, were dead. The crowd gave him a standing ovation, according to media reports.

Mexico City police discovered the bodies of the four men several hours after the mayor said they were dead, and the men weren't identified by police as the alleged kidnappers until two days later.

Mr. Fernández was asked how he knew about the deaths before the police. He answered that it was thanks to his new group charged with cleaning up the municipality.


"We're tired of sitting around on our hands and waiting for daddy or mommy Calderón to come to fix our fights. We in San Pedro took the decision to grab the bull by the horns," Mr. Fernández said in a radio interview. "Even acting outside the limits of my role as mayor, I will end the kidnappings, extortions and drug trafficking. We are going to do this by whatever means, fair or foul."

Asked if his new squad would operate outside the law, Mr. Fernández said: "In some ways, that's right. What the criminals want is that they can break every law, but that we have to respect every law. Well, I don't get that."

A spokesman for Mr. Fernández said the mayor wasn't granting interviews at the moment, and declined to comment further.

The comments ignited a firestorm. Analysts say that as local and federal officials in Mexico struggle to fight the cartels, they could be tempted to follow in the footsteps of Colombia, where paramilitary gangs and death squads killed thousands of suspected leftists, criminals, and drug traffickers in the late 1990s and early part of this decade.

"This is where we've come in our war on drugs," says Leo Zuckerman, a political analyst in Mexico City. "A mayor justifies, brags, and celebrates that he has carried out justice by his own hands, outside the judicial institutions. This is bad news for those of us who believe that a civilized society is one where criminals get due process."

Interior Minister Fernando Gómez Mont on Thursday criticized the statements by Mr. Fernández, who previously served as a federal senator in Mr. Calderon's conservative PAN party. "The Mexican state, in its different levels, can't act above or beyond the law. Whoever does so is ... a lawbreaker, and we can't accept using criminals to resolve the problem of crime." The Mexican attorney general's office, which could investigate the killings of the four men, said it had no comment.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125746132763632051.html

CraigV
11-06-2009, 13:14
Mexico, beautiful beaches, lots of oil, great food, wonderful people, and it's a mess. It just goes to show you how much a goverment can **** something up.

This.

PuroMexicano
11-09-2009, 18:03
The mayor of the nearby municipality of San Pedro Garza García, Mauricio Fernández, a scion of a wealthy and prominent family, said this week that he created a special group to "clean up" criminal elements in the municipality -- even if it had to act outside the law.[/url]

I know this guy personally, he has cojones, the power and the money to pull thru with what he says.

He has one of the biggest firearm collections in Mexico, and rumor has it that 50 years ago, there was not a police officer in San Pedro that didn't have a gun sold by him.

He has a long political career and millions and millions of dollars

Now we'll see if he can do it without going to jail himself for breaking the law.

Everybody here supports him.

Sam Spade
11-09-2009, 19:21
I know this guy personally....

Now we'll see if he can do it without going to jail himself for breaking the law.

Tell him to shut up.

He has enemies other than the narcos.

lawman800
11-09-2009, 20:50
I know this guy personally, he has cojones, the power and the money to pull thru with what he says.

He has one of the biggest firearm collections in Mexico, and rumor has it that 50 years ago, there was not a police officer in San Pedro that didn't have a gun sold by him.

He has a long political career and millions and millions of dollars

Now we'll see if he can do it without going to jail himself for breaking the law.

Everybody here supports him.

If he was really going to do this, he needs to keep it on the QT. Why draw attention to yourself and what you are doing when you know you are outside the law and you are going to be hunted by both sides?

Super G23
11-09-2009, 22:01
If he was really going to do this, he needs to keep it on the QT. Why draw attention to yourself and what you are doing when you know you are outside the law and you are going to be hunted by both sides?

Sounds like he pissed off the narco traffickers by asking too much pay off!!!:rofl::rofl:

Hack
11-10-2009, 10:03
I have all the respect that a person can have for someone who wants to do good. Should he go outside the boundaries of law, I would think it would be best to not advertise it, regardless of good intentions. I wish him and the people working with him well.

Beware Owner
11-16-2009, 08:11
Out of all the tactics I've seen used in an attempt to win over the people, looks like his worked...

Alex g30
11-16-2009, 16:06
imagine how many more index crimes they would have if 80% of their population wasn't here in the US :shocked:

Your so ignorant.

ronduke
11-28-2009, 17:41
Fixing Mexico police becomes a priority
Reversing police corruption that has tainted whole departments, shattered faith in law enforcement and compromised one of society's most basic institutions is proving difficult, but not impossible.

By Ken Ellingwood

Reporting from San Luis Potosi, Mexico - The lie-detector team brought in by Mexico's top cop was supposed to help clean up the country's long-troubled police. There was just one problem: Most of its members themselves didn't pass, and a supervisor was rigging results to make sure others did.

When public safety chief Genaro Garcia Luna found out, he canned the team, all 50 to 60 members.

"He fired everybody," a senior U.S. law enforcement official said.

But the episode shows how difficult it will be for Mexico to reverse a legacy of police corruption that has tainted whole departments, shattered people's faith in law enforcement and compromised one of society's most basic institutions.

President Felipe Calderon's 3-year-old drug offensive has laid bare the extent to which crime syndicates have infiltrated police agencies at virtually every level. By blurring the line between crime fighters and gangsters, the rampant graft stands as one of the biggest impediments to the Calderon campaign.

Amid the raging drug war, Mexican officials are trying to fix the police through a hurried nationwide effort that includes better screening and training for candidates on a scale never tried here before.

At the heart of the overhaul is a "new police model" that stresses technical sophistication and trustworthiness and that treats police work as a professional career, not a fallback job.

In steps that are groundbreaking for Mexico, cadets and veteran cops are being forced to bare their credit card and bank accounts, submit to polygraph tests and even reveal their family members to screeners to prove they have no shady connections.

Across Mexico, hundreds of state and municipal officers have been purged from their departments and scores more arrested on charges of colluding with drug gangs.

But Mexico has a habit of trading in one corrupt police agency for another, and it will be a long, uphill struggle to create a law enforcement system that can confront crime and gain the trust of ordinary Mexicans. Until then, crooked cops undermine efforts to strengthen the rule of law and defeat drug cartels.

"If you don't have a safe environment to conduct investigations, then it's going to be extremely difficult to capture the narcos," said the U.S. law enforcement official, who was not authorized to speak publicly. "If you have state police that are corrupt and constantly feeding your movements, investigative movements, to the bad guys, you're not going to get anywhere."

Vigilante fears

Some people fear that the soaring drug violence and mistrust toward police could spark the formation of death squads or vigilante groups. Already there have been suspicions, though no proof, that dozens of killings have been committed by people taking the law into their own hands. More than 13,800 people have been slain since Calderon declared war on the drug cartels, according to unofficial news media tallies.

Although Mexican federal police are in charge of the crackdown against the cartels, it is at the state and municipal levels where law enforcement is most vulnerable, officials and analysts say. Drug gangs exploit hometown ties, dangle bribes and threaten the lives of officers and their relatives to turn police into a kind of fifth column.

Poorly paid state and municipal officers are often on the payroll of drug smugglers, passing tips, providing muscle or looking the other way when illegal drugs are shipped through their turf.

Criminal infiltration of local departments has worsened as the Mexican political system becomes less centralized and as narcotics traffickers delve into offshoot enterprises, such as kidnapping, theft and extortion, that under Mexican law fall within the jurisdiction of state authorities.

At times, local police have faced off in tense showdowns against Mexican federal police and soldiers. The mistrust often prompts federal authorities to keep their state and municipal counterparts in the dark, aggravating interagency frictions.

"There is a disorganized police fighting against organized crime," said Guillermo Zepeda, a police expert at the Center of Research for Development in Mexico City.

In the western state of Michoacan, 10 municipal officers were arrested in the slayings of 12 federal agents there in July. In the Gulf of Mexico port city of Veracruz, authorities investigating the June disappearance of customs administrator Francisco Serrano detained nearly 50 municipal officers. The then-chief of municipal police for the seaport and three traffic officers were later charged with his kidnapping. Serrano is still missing.

The profound flaws of Mexico's police, who are frequently ill trained, poorly equipped and unhappy in their work, are the most visible emblems of how the drug offensive is straining the nation's broader system of law and order.

An opaque and creaky court system groans under the weight of thousands of new drug war cases, and a number of prosecutors, defense lawyers and judges have been slain. Meanwhile, prison officials scramble to make room for the surge of detainees, many of them violent.

President's plan

Calderon's administration has laid out a strategy to expand and revamp the federal police and to force states, cities and towns to modernize and clean up their forces through such tools as polygraphs and drug tests. Standing in the way are many years of graft, turf jealousies, budget constraints and a drug underworld that has greeted every government move with greater viciousness.

Garcia Luna, the public safety chief, has seized the moment to hire thousands of federal cadets, who under the strict new standards must hold at least a university degree. Despite the stiff requirements, the federal force has grown to 32,264 officers, from about 25,000 a year ago.

At a sleek federal campus here in the north-central state of San Luis Potosi, Mexican officials are rushing to turn 9,000 college graduates into federal investigators. The school boasts state-of-the-art lecture halls, computer rooms, workout facilities, a driver-training track and shooting range.

The U.S. government supports the push to expand and professionalize Mexico's federal forces, lending dozens of police instructors as part of a $1.4-billion aid package for Mexico known as the Merida Initiative.

Federal cadets, dressed in white polo shirts and smart bluejeans, study criminal procedure, interview techniques, criminology and intelligence. The school has graduated 2,234 investigators since June; more than 1,000 fresh recruits began the six-week course last month.

An even more daunting challenge waits in states and cities, which are home to the vast majority of police in Mexico -- more than 370,000 officers. In the last two years, the federal government has relied on budget incentives to prod local departments to vet officer candidates and boost salaries, now often as low as $90 a week.

Garcia Luna has gone so far as to call for eliminating the country's 2,022 municipal agencies, widely seen as the weakest link in Mexican law enforcement, and folding them into police departments of the 31 states and Mexico City, which is formally a federal district.

The proposal is controversial, probably requiring a change in the Mexican Constitution and facing opposition from municipal officials from across the political spectrum who are reluctant to yield parts of their fiefdoms.

Some analysts warn that such a plan could make it easier for criminal groups to bribe police.

"Concentrating power at the state level runs the risk of creating a more hierarchical, 'one-stop-shopping' system of high-level corruption," said David Shirk, a University of San Diego professor and a fellow at the Woodrow Wilson Center in Washington.

States and municipalities have moved inconsistently to clean up their forces. In some places, such as the northern city of Chihuahua, police are gradually adopting U.S.-style law enforcement standards, such as those promoted by the private Commission on Accreditation for Law Enforcement Agencies.

Many analysts are encouraged to see local agencies spending more to improve training, equipment and wages, but see scant improvement on corruption.

"You can train police all day long, but if they're still corrupt, then it doesn't really help," said Daniel Sabet, who teaches at Georgetown University and studies Mexican law enforcement. "The corruption and organized-crime infiltration has not changed."

Pay-based strategy

Here in San Luis Potosi state, whose police operation is praised by the U.S. as among a handful in Mexico that are sound, officials raised minimum pay to about $700 a month and now offer bonuses of nearly two months' pay to officers who perform well and pass twice-yearly vetting.

Cesareo Carvajal, public safety director until the state government changed hands in September, said he fired about 150 of 3,000 officers during his two-year term.

The agency also bought radio equipment, new weaponry and police vehicles, and outfitted officers with redesigned uniforms to create an updated image.

At a state-run police academy where San Luis Potosi's next generation of police is being molded, the rhythmic thump-thump of boots on pavement echoed on a recent morning as officers-in-training practiced marching.

Cadets here say a new, trustworthy breed of Mexican police is possible -- but that it will take time to build.

As part of a stricter selection process, recruit Hiram Viñas was hooked to a lie detector and asked about any past scrapes with the law. Screeners peeked into his bank account and rummaged in his family's background.

Viñas, 24, wearing a blue windbreaker and buzz cut, said the rigorous scrutiny could help win over Mexican society.

"They are applying tests and evaluations now that had never been done in our country," he said. "I think over time, people will learn to trust the police again."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexico-police17-2009nov17,0,6698620,full.story

BULLRUNN
11-29-2009, 18:33
Attack the distribution of drugs shoot the BAST#$%^ as they cross the border it’s time to take the gloves of and close the southern boarder... screw the fence park an armor battalion on the line with orders to destroy anything that doesn’t have a passport... and a green card.....

lawman800
11-30-2009, 20:58
Battalion? I say let's send in the BIG RED ONE!

1st ARMORED DIVISION FTW!!!!

ronduke
12-23-2009, 01:13
Revenge in Drug War Chills Mexico
By ELISABETH MALKIN
MEXICO CITY — It had been an elaborate farewell to one of Mexico’s fallen heroes.

Ensign Melquisedet Angulo Córdova, a special forces sailor killed last week during the government’s most successful raid on a top drug lord in years, received a stirring public tribute in which the secretary of the navy presented his mother with the flag that covered her son’s coffin.

Then, only hours after the grieving family had finished burying him in his hometown the next day, gunmen burst into the family’s house and sprayed the rooms with gunfire, killing his mother and three other relatives, officials said Tuesday.

It was a chilling epilogue to the navy-led operation that killed the drug lord, Arturo Beltrán Leyva, and six of his gunmen. And it appeared to be intended as a clear warning to the military forces on the front line of President Felipe Calderón’s war against Mexico’s drug cartels: not only you, but your family is a target as well.

Prosecutors, police chiefs and thousands of others have been killed in the violence gripping Mexico, with whole families sometimes coming under attack during a cartel’s assassination attempt. But going after the family of a sailor who had already been killed is an exceedingly rare form of intimidation, analysts say, and illustrates how little progress the government has made toward one of its most important goals: reclaiming a sense of peace and order for Mexicans caught in the cross-fire.

“There will be more reprisals, both symbolic ones and strategic ones,” said Guillermo Zepeda, a security expert with the Center of Research for Development, in Mexico City. “They will take revenge against not only the top people, but anybody who participates.”

The military and police forces who have been fighting the drug war typically cover their faces with ski masks to protect their identities. But the government generally releases the names of police officers and soldiers who have been killed in the drug war.

Responding to the killings on Tuesday, Mr. Calderón said, “These contemptible events are proof of how unscrupulously organized crime operates, attacking innocent lives, and they can only strengthen us in our determination to banish this singular cancer.”

The gunmen killed Ensign Angulo’s mother, Irma Córdova Palma, and his sister Yolidabey, 22, just after midnight on Tuesday as they slept, said Tabasco State officials. An aunt, Josefa Angulo Flores, 46, died on her way to the hospital and Ensign Angulo’s brother Benito died shortly after he was admitted to the hospital. Another sister, who was not identified, was injured.

Ensign Angulo, 30, was killed Dec. 16 when military forces surrounded an upscale apartment complex in the city of Cuernavaca, an hour’s drive south of Mexico City, and cornered Mr. Beltrán Leyva, who American and Mexican officials say was one of Mexico’s most violent drug lords.

Although Mr. Calderón called the death of Mr. Beltrán Leyva a significant victory in the drug war, federal officials warned almost immediately that it could spawn more violence.

Attorney General Arturo Chávez Chávez told reporters the morning after the raid against Mr. Beltrán Leyva that his subordinates would battle among one another to take his place at the head of the cartel that bears his name.

But what officials did not expect was that among the first victims would be the innocent.

Throughout the three-year-old drug war, Mexican officials have argued that only a tiny percentage of the dead are noncombatants. Indeed, the vast majority of the dead are believed to be members of drug gangs settling scores. Half of the bodies are not even claimed by their families, government officials have said.

But the government has also proved to be powerless to protect many of its own forces in the drug war, much less innocent bystanders. In just one case in July, gunmen suspected of being cartel members killed 12 federal police officers in the western state of Michoacán in retaliation for the arrest of one of their leaders.

The killings on Tuesday underscore how vulnerable civilians are. Many local police forces are corrupted by drug money, officials say, and even when they are not, they are no match for the drug gangs’ firepower.

In one of the most frightening attacks directed at civilians, suspected cartel members threw grenades into a crowd celebrating Independence Day in the president’s hometown in 2008, killing eight people. It seemed to crystallize the fear that the cartels could strike wherever and whenever they wanted, despite the deployment of thousands of troops against them.

Analysts said that new levels of narcoterrorism were possible as the drug gangs tried to spread fear among those fighting them.

“Any objective could be vulnerable,” Mr. Zepeda, the security expert, said. “The state should be expecting it.”

Antonio Betancourt contributed reporting.

snair
12-23-2009, 02:08
Why in the world would the Mexican Government honestly try to stop the flow of drugs and illegal immigrants into the United States? Both return huge amounts of cash to their economy. Until we shut off our aid to them and force them to deal with their own problems, nothing will change.:goodpost::goodpost:

Tac 5.8
12-23-2009, 04:04
:goodpost::goodpost:

Trust me, nothing is going to change ten years from now on as well!!

snair
12-23-2009, 09:43
Trust me, nothing is going to change ten years from now on as well!!i know, it would be hard to change but it could be done eventually if they were forced to

Hack
12-23-2009, 10:17
It will be what it will be until enough focus on their own country. Some do, or there would not be people fighting against the enemy in their own country.

Morris
12-23-2009, 10:35
So now the gangs are in covert to open warfare with the Mexican military?

Sorry folks, if it smells, walks, and acts like a low grade civil war . . .

Make me think of Puro and best hopes for him and his brothers/sisters/

snair
12-23-2009, 12:48
Battalion? I say let's send in the BIG RED ONE!

1st ARMORED DIVISION FTW!!!!big red one is 1st Infantry Division

lawman800
12-23-2009, 14:40
big red one is 1st Infantry Division

Sorry... got too excited thinking of a whole division of M1A1 tanks rolling down Mexico City and cleaning up the joint.

ronduke
07-17-2010, 17:18
Car bomb marks new, bloody phase in Mexico's war with drug gangs
BY Sean Alfano
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Saturday, July 17th 2010, 1:52 PM

Drug cartel enforcer confesses to killing U.S. consulate employee for helping rival gangsBloody gang battle near Mexico-Arizona border leaves 21 dead The bloody drug wars ravaging Mexico took a bloody turn for the worse this week.

For the first time in the decades-old battle between drug gangs and the government, a car bomb was used to kill police.

Members of a drug gang in Ciudad Juarez Thursday baited federal officers and paramedics by dressing a wounded man in a police uniform and calling the cops to say an officer had been shot.

When the officers reached the decoy cop, the gang blew up a car holding more than 20 pounds of explosives.

The fake cop, a paramedic and a federal officer died in the blast.

The La Linea gang, which was blamed for the kidnapping and killing of a U.S. consulate employee and her husband back in March, detonated the bomb, police said.

Graffiti in Ciudad Juarez supposedly posted by the gang said they would strike again.

"We have more car bombs," they wrote.

The mayor of Ciudad Juarez said his city is on alert for more attacks.

"We've started changing all our protocols, to include bomb situations," Mayor Jose Reyes Ferriz told the Associated Press.

The mayor also feared that the car bombing could trigger cops to quit or retire.

He said at least 14 police officers had been killed in the last few weeks.
Ciudad Juarez is on the Mexican border with Texas, right across from El Paso and is one of the most dangerous cities in the world, with more than 4,000 people killed since 2009, according to government estimates



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/07/17/2010-07-17_car_bomb_marks_new_bloody_phase_in_mexicos_war_with_drug_gangs.html#ixzz0tz6Uy1yj

Kahr_Glockman
07-17-2010, 17:29
I saw about the car bomb earlier this week. This will collapse the Mexican governmen eventually, and may take our with it from spill over violence.

Hack
07-17-2010, 19:09
I saw about the car bomb earlier this week. This will collapse the Mexican governmen eventually, and may take our with it from spill over violence.

So, what can Texas LE do? We don't want to let them, (the cartels), take it all down. We don't want to let the gang elements take it all down period, in this country.

I think the direction of this country being blown asunder is set, unless the people wake up to the reality of the situation now. Maybe the TEA party movements are helping us head in the right direction, by placing an emphasis on cleaning out the dead wood from US Congress. If we don't get a handle on the nation soon, someone else surely will.

Morris
07-17-2010, 20:21
I saw some interesting parallels in the car bombing as I see in another part of the world, namely the M.E. Surely you don't think our friends from the Hizbollah stationed downsouth could be teaching some drug gangs a few tricks or two?

Naaaa.

Hack
07-17-2010, 20:24
I saw some interesting parallels in the car bombing as I see in another part of the world, namely the M.E. Surely you don't think our friends from the Hizbollah stationed downsouth could be teaching some drug gangs a few tricks or two?

Naaaa.

Actually I have thought that. I would be surprised if they were not.

A6Gator
07-17-2010, 20:50
I saw some interesting parallels in the car bombing as I see in another part of the world, namely the M.E. Surely you don't think our friends from the Hizbollah stationed downsouth could be teaching some drug gangs a few tricks or two?

Naaaa.

I was thinking the same thing. With all the OTMs strolling across the border, it might have been a quid pro quo w/the coyotes for getting them across the border for a crack at those jobs American's won't do...

Gotta figure out of the 52000 OTMs (with a bunch from Iran, Syria, Sudan and Cuba) stopped last year by CBP, and those are the ones that we know about, at least one who didn't get caught could probably figure out how to set up a cellphone device. Just wait 'til they start w/the IEDs...With optimistic estimates that 30% of border crossers get caught, that leaves more than 100K who made it across unscathed.

Kahr_Glockman
07-17-2010, 23:45
To answer simply, civil law enforcement can not stop what is coming. We don't have the skills or equipment to effectively fight this. What our state and federal governments need to do is activate the NG and provide heavy assistance to local LE who know the smuggling trails.

I am talking Bradley fighting vehicles and such operating with the Border Patrol and local Sheriff Offices and PD's. That will never happen and here is why.

The people that are crossing the border are socialist in nature. They are also creating the crisis that this current .gov needs to declare a state of emergency. They will do this if there is another catastrophic attack on US soil.

The complete control of the border will be used as a deterrent to that declaration. If the democrats are thrown out of power in November they will still control the presidency and will be very dangerous. They are still Socialists and Communists. They will do everything they can to make that happen.

God I sound like a tin foil hat wearing guy but I really don't have a good feeling about Washington and the next two years.

The border is the key to all of this. The longer we go with an unsecured border the closer our nation is to being destroyed.

Morris
07-18-2010, 06:51
http://www1.ktsm.com/war-on-drugs/four-dead-in-juarez-bombing

Four dead in Juarez bombing
Play this video
By Eric Fink - Multimedia Journalist
Friday, July 16, 2010 - 7:18pm

Juarez-- People in Juarez are recovering from a car bomb that killed four Thursday night. The victims include two federal agents, an ambulance worker and a doctor who was in the area when the bomb went off.

Tonight, we have learned that it was a car bomb that was detonated with the same kind of sophistication that is used by terrorist groups like Hezbollah.

A number of people were injured during the attack. Today we know that seven federal police agents were severely injured. A news photographer from channel 5 in Juarez remains in critical condition. One woman who owns a business nearby talked to us about her fears.

"As it is, we are not selling much. Can you imagine right now people are scared. We used to have many American customers. Right now that has drastically decreased," says the business owner.

According to police, it appears a Ford Focus was driven into a police convoy crashing into two federal police units. Information from officials indicates that there were hand grenades attached to the gas tank of the car in order to cause the explosion. Juarez mayor Jose Reyes Ferriz said today that the general public shouldn't be worried because recent attacks have been focused on police. "Luckily it has been limited to either the police or the members of those two groups of organized crime. We don't have any information that leads us to believe any attacks are going to be made on the population itself," states Ferriz.

Law Enforcement has arrested the man they say masterminded the attack. The man is identified as Armando Acosta Guerrero. Authorities say he is a high ranking member of "La Linea", the enforcement arm of the Juarez cartel.

lawman800
07-18-2010, 10:44
I have zero doubts that Hezbollah or Hamas or even Obama Bin Laden being involved in teaching some of these guys what to do.

Bombing a convoy? Where does that sound familiar? These guys are worse than the terrorists. These guys will blow up whoever wherever without regard to collateral damage. The fake wounded cop was also a touch straight out of the first "Bad Boys" movie with Will Smith. You don't see that with M.E. insurgents.

What are we doing about it? Nothing. Congress critters are too busy with stealing more money and President Osama says it's just too vast to secure. Oh well. Come what may.

US LE cannot handle this type of threat. We are not trained nor equipped to fight an insurgent war. That is what this is, total war. The cartels have taken off the gloves and are waging total war. They are killing on sight and razing everything in its path.

Even if we have the Minutemen or Border Patrol or all the locals on full alert and fighting back, we don't have the equipment and readiness to combat this type of threat. Sending in NG units with restrictive ROE will guarantee a bloodbath. We need to declare total war as well. Seek and destroy. No converting hearts and minds. Burn it to the ground.

Morris
07-18-2010, 10:49
I half wonder if D.C. doesn't want a war just to solidify or entrench their position. Meanwhile, cops just south of the border are getting killed as well as north.

slewfoot
07-18-2010, 11:05
I have zero doubts that Hezbollah or Hamas or even Obama Bin Laden being involved in teaching some of these guys what to do.



You do know Iran has sent a group of Revolutionary Guards to Venezuela. I wonder what they are doing there?

Could Chavez be training these narco terrorists some new tricks? Fomenting revolt in Mexico is one of his stated goals. He sees himself as the modern day Simon Bolivar destined to unite Central and South America under one dictator, very similar to what Iran wants to do in the Middle East.

Morris
07-18-2010, 12:41
You do know Iran has sent a group of Revolutionary Guards to Venezuela. I wonder what they are doing there?

Could Chavez be training these narco terrorists some new tricks? Fomenting revolt in Mexico is one of his stated goals. He sees himself as the modern day Simon Bolivar destined to unite Central and South America under one dictator, very similar to what Iran wants to do in the Middle East.

Yes to all.

Free Radical
07-18-2010, 12:58
imagine how many more index crimes they would have if 80% of their population wasn't here in the US :shocked:


Actually, it's about 9% of their people that are here.
That is, however, changing daily.

use2b6L32
07-18-2010, 16:34
You want to take on the drug gangs, you gotta let loose the dogs of war and unchain the warriors to freely wage war where they find it. Wholesale eradication and extermination is the only solution. You find them, you kill them. It worked for Wyatt Earp on the Cowboys.

You don't fight a junkyard dog with ASPCA rules, to paraphrase a wise man.

Fuggin ay!

use2b6L32
07-18-2010, 16:48
I have zero doubts that Hezbollah or Hamas or even Obama Bin Laden being involved in teaching some of these guys what to do.

Bombing a convoy? Where does that sound familiar? These guys are worse than the terrorists. These guys will blow up whoever wherever without regard to collateral damage. The fake wounded cop was also a touch straight out of the first "Bad Boys" movie with Will Smith. You don't see that with M.E. insurgents.

What are we doing about it? Nothing. Congress critters are too busy with stealing more money and President Osama says it's just too vast to secure. Oh well. Come what may.

US LE cannot handle this type of threat. We are not trained nor equipped to fight an insurgent war. That is what this is, total war. The cartels have taken off the gloves and are waging total war. They are killing on sight and razing everything in its path.

Even if we have the Minutemen or Border Patrol or all the locals on full alert and fighting back, we don't have the equipment and readiness to combat this type of threat. Sending in NG units with restrictive ROE will guarantee a bloodbath. We need to declare total war as well. Seek and destroy. No converting hearts and minds. Burn it to the ground.

Ixnay on the war-ay.

The current Administration can't even carry out a war on the people that killed almost 3,000 of our fellow countrymen (and women)!

Do you think they're the least inclined to declare war on millions of "Undocumented Democrats"? No effing way...

That was rhetorical, I know you (and most of us here) already know the answer.

SON! :drillsgt:

use2b6L32
07-18-2010, 16:48
To answer simply, civil law enforcement can not stop what is coming. We don't have the skills or equipment to effectively fight this. What our state and federal governments need to do is activate the NG and provide heavy assistance to local LE who know the smuggling trails.

I am talking Bradley fighting vehicles and such operating with the Border Patrol and local Sheriff Offices and PD's. That will never happen and here is why.

The people that are crossing the border are socialist in nature. They are also creating the crisis that this current .gov needs to declare a state of emergency. They will do this if there is another catastrophic attack on US soil.

The complete control of the border will be used as a deterrent to that declaration. If the democrats are thrown out of power in November they will still control the presidency and will be very dangerous. They are still Socialists and Communists. They will do everything they can to make that happen.

God I sound like a tin foil hat wearing guy but I really don't have a good feeling about Washington and the next two years.

The border is the key to all of this. The longer we go with an unsecured border the closer our nation is to being destroyed.

Amen, Brother!

Kahr_Glockman
07-18-2010, 17:07
The question that I have is, what will the US Government do when a car bomb is detonated in front of the El Paso PD or SO.

My bet is, nothing. They will launch an "investigation" and say that they are limiting response to "keep from offending" anyone. Then neglect to label the terrorists and then completely ignore the problem while giving eloquent speeches on unity and how we are all citizens of North America. Then they will prevent a response from the State Guards.

Just my prediction.

use2b6L32
07-18-2010, 17:11
The question that I have is, what will the US Government do when a car bomb is detonated in front of the El Paso PD or SO.

My bet is, nothing. They will launch an "investigation" and say that they are limiting response to "keep from offending" anyone. Then neglect to label the terrorists and then completely ignore the problem while giving eloquent speeches on unity and how we are all citizens of North America. Then they will prevent a response from the State Guards.

Just my prediction.

Pres. Osama will probably just say they "acted stupidly"...

Newcop761
07-18-2010, 17:53
Pres. Osama will probably just say they "acted stupidly"...

Quoted for truth. Winner.

lawman800
07-18-2010, 20:30
Pres. Osama will probably just say they "acted stupidly"...

The Appeaser-In-Chief will say that the Police Officers acted stupidly by getting blown up. Then he'll have a beer summit with the terrorists and the surviving police officers for his teachable moment.

Then Eric Holder will go after the Police Department because not enough white officers were blown up, showing racism in the victim demographics.

bug
07-18-2010, 21:09
Our Grandfathers had the answer long ago, kill all of them.
During WW2 when the Japanese would not surrender a island they just killed all of them.

It is not P.C. or nice but it worked!!!

These people are not going to give up without a fight there is too much money involved for that!!!

Sometimes there is just one solution to a problem.
legalization it will just make it worse.
Talking has done nothing.
Nice police work has done nothing.
jail does not scare them!!
so whats left
send the U.S.M.C to deal with them and tell the to not take prisoners..

use2b6L32
07-18-2010, 21:45
Spot-on to both of the above!

lawman800
07-19-2010, 00:11
Simplest maxim of war... just keep killing the opposition and eventually, when you kill enough of them, they will give up the fight. If they don't give up, then you just kill all of them. Either way, no skin off my back.

kirgi08
07-19-2010, 02:19
Agreed,sorta like a General that referenced that Japanese will only spoken in hades.'08. :whistling:

series1811
07-19-2010, 11:13
Actually, it's about 9% of their people that are here.
That is, however, changing daily.

It does feel more like 80 per cent in certain places, though.

Beware Owner
07-24-2010, 09:30
I agree, we need to let the dogs loose. Some people respect the badge, everybody respects the gun...

lawman800
07-24-2010, 10:48
It does feel more like 80 per cent in certain places, though.

It's the concentration and demographics of the city.

At about over 50-60% concentration in a city, you will start seeing storefronts and entire blocks being transformed to the point that it becomes all ethnic.

SoCal is funny like that. There are enough people of any given Nationality and ethnicity to form their own enclaves.

Glendale, Alhambra, El Monte, Westminster, Korea Town (Mid-Wilshire), Little Tokyo, Maywood, etc., are all areas which exhibit this phenomenon. There are many others at 80% concentration and above.

ronduke
08-19-2010, 03:27
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704557704575437762646209270.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_World

ronduke
12-23-2010, 05:09
Be sure to view the slide show

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703727804576017401470792580.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_World#project%3DSLIDESHOW08%26s%3DSB 10001424052748704700204575643322361758834%26articleTabs%3Dslideshow



http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703727804576017401470792580.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_World#project%3DSLIDESHOW08%26s%3DSB 10001424052748704700204575643322361758834%26articleTabs%3Darticle

OldScribe2009
12-23-2010, 15:16
Actually the only sure cure is to kill the cash flow of the cartels.

How do we do that? Legalize all drugs and make them so cheap that what would cost you $500 only costs 1 cent.

Forget taxing them. Just get the price down to zero as close as possible.

Once you do that the cost of growing and transporting them becomes too much for the cartels.

All the money we will save by not locking up drug addicts can go towards other things. Addicts want their fix? Give it to them. No medical care of course so if they die doing the drugs then that's on them. They choose that life.

This would not only help Mexico but it would help South America as well.

I agree. It's not what most people want to hear, but sometimes it's difficult to face the truth, especially after living a lie for so long.

Careby
12-23-2010, 15:51
A couple of flaws in your arguement. First, the cost won't go down. Look at cigarettes. They are 7-8 dollars a pack for a few cents of tobacco.

Second, you will still be locking up addicts. Cut the cost of drugs in half and they will do twice as much. No company will hire them and they will still burgal and rob to get the money. They will still beat their children. They will still drive impaired and kill people. Also, noone gets incarcerated for drug USE. It's a myth. They get incarcerated for selling and the things they do while under the influence.

There is no other choice. We should have learned all we need to know from Prohibition (of alcohol). To reduce crime, remove the profit opportunity. This works for drug trade AND petty crime by addicts trying to feed their habits. Government funded "FREE FIXES" would take care of that problem, but would only be possible if we get over our denial of the fact that the demand for drugs will be satisfied one way or the other. Substance abuse cannot be stopped by laws & law enforcement. It didn't work for alcohol and it isn't working for other drugs.

Of course it isn't just the drug cartels that profit from the drug war. The other side is raking in big bucks, too.

MannyA
12-23-2010, 16:16
The only sure cure is for us to help out the legitimate Mexican forces, with their permission. However, we're so tied up elsewhere, I don't see us doing it any time real soon. Maybe it's time for strength increases in National Guard. They are over strength by current standards, but you would think it could be changed. Then deploy half of the units along the border.

That and work with legitimate LE in Mexico.

Or allow US citizens to shoot on site anyone crossing into the US.

PuroMexicano
12-23-2010, 17:18
The only sure cure is for us to help out the legitimate Mexican forces, with their permission. However, we're so tied up elsewhere, I don't see us doing it any time real soon. Maybe it's time for strength increases in National Guard. They are over strength by current standards, but you would think it could be changed. Then deploy half of the units along the border.

That and work with legitimate LE in Mexico.

I hear you, and cannot comprehend how so many idiots think it is better to engage in a war with your neighbor instead of helping each other on a problem that AFFECTS BOTH!!!. :upeyes:

Hack
12-23-2010, 21:50
I hear you, and cannot comprehend how so many idiots think it is better to engage in a war with your neighbor instead of helping each other on a problem that AFFECTS BOTH!!!. :upeyes:

Unfortunately that seems to be a popular sentiment among many, concerning the waging of war. The cartels sure don't make it easy to stay away from the subject of war, in that they are warring against each other and innocents being caught up in it.

We have gangs and factions here that are a problem as well. It was not that long ago that gangland really used to have a hold on the US. I think I see a resurgence on the way with the laying off of the good guys here.

PuroMexicano
12-23-2010, 23:17
Unfortunately that seems to be a popular sentiment among many, concerning the waging of war.

Yep, most of them are basement internet kommandos that have never heard a gun battle with automatic weapons in the middle of the street, let alone be themselves in a gunfight.

Happy holidays and stay safe, watch the POS's hands!!
:wavey:

ronduke
05-21-2011, 02:13
How does a weapon made in Tennessee, sold in Missouri and traded in Texas end up at a drug shootout in Chihuahua?.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704904604576335162888589404.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_6#articleTabs%3Darticle

Rohniss
05-21-2011, 19:58
I know this guy personally, he has cojones, the power and the money to pull thru with what he says.

He has one of the biggest firearm collections in Mexico, and rumor has it that 50 years ago, there was not a police officer in San Pedro that didn't have a gun sold by him.

He has a long political career and millions and millions of dollars

Now we'll see if he can do it without going to jail himself for breaking the law.

Everybody here supports him.

How goes the Mexican Los Pepes? or has it got to that point yet (2 years later)?

PuroMexicano
05-23-2011, 19:24
How goes the Mexican Los Pepes? or has it got to that point yet (2 years later)?

What is "Los Pepes"? Are you refering to the Escobar guys?

Regarding that guy (Mauricio Fernandez), San Pedro is still the safest municipality in Monterrey.

His intelligence group, called the "Rude group" was disbanded because indeed he had quite a few leaks and a couple of them got killed and at least one of his CI was actively involved with the dealers.

I'm having a meeting this week with his PR representative regarding some checkpoints that don't get any results but only major traffic jams.

Rohniss
05-23-2011, 19:47
What is "Los Pepes"? Are you refering to the Escobar guys?

Regarding that guy (Mauricio Fernandez), San Pedro is still the safest municipality in Monterrey.

His intelligence group, called the "Rude group" was disbanded because indeed he had quite a few leaks and a couple of them got killed and at least one of his CI was actively involved with the dealers.

I'm having a meeting this week with his PR representative regarding some checkpoints that don't get any results but only major traffic jams.

Yeah, the way I read your QP from 2 years ago was that a connected straight up Mexican Citizen was attempting to setup something like Los Pepes (from Escobar/Columbia) to do similar things in Mexico.

I was incorrect in this assumption as his group "Rude" seems to be more of a intelligence based group rather than a vigilante style group...

While its no contest that what Los Pepes did in Columbia was illegal and extremely cruel/violent, its also my opinion that they succeeded in really turning the screws on Escobar...

Basically I was asking if this guy setup a group like that, or if it was getting to the point where the straight up Mexicans were starting to organize against the Nacro-Terrorists...

PuroMexicano
05-24-2011, 09:44
No vigilante types, yet. Only intelligence groups.

Hopefully someone will create the Mexican Los Pepes and go get some mofo drug dealers under ground.

wjv
05-24-2011, 11:10
U.S. Pledges to Stem Flow of Guns to Help Mexico
By CAM SIMPSON
President Barack Obama on Thursday told Mexican President Felipe Calderón that the U.S. would stem a flow of weapons across the border into Mexico.

Typical Democrat response. . Ban it or tax it. . That's the cure for everything.

lawman800
05-24-2011, 11:18
Typical Democrat response. . Ban it or tax it. . That's the cure for everything.

How about Felipe stem the flow of drugs out if his backwater corrupt 3rd world country first?

If supply is the problem as he says and we have too many guns, then he needs to stop the supply of drugs.

If our demand for drugs is the problem, then he can blame his own criminal element for demanding guns.

It goes both ways. You can't pick and choose your battles when convenient for political soundbites and rhetoric.

PuroMexicano
05-24-2011, 12:04
How about Felipe stem the flow of drugs out if his backwater corrupt 3rd world country first?

If supply is the problem as he says and we have too many guns, then he needs to stop the supply of drugs.

If our demand for drugs is the problem, then he can blame his own criminal element for demanding guns.

It goes both ways. You can't pick and choose your battles when convenient for political soundbites and rhetoric.

You are wrong, you CAN pick your battles when convienient as long as you are an elected official :whistling:

lawman800
05-24-2011, 12:26
You are wrong, you CAN pick your battles when convienient as long as you are an elected official :whistling:

Quite true! I forgot the elected official exception.

Sad thing is that Mexico is a beautiful land with abundant natural resources including some of the most beautiful women in the world but it's ruined by those who do nothing but stand by and watch it self destruct.

Vigilant
05-24-2011, 13:10
Quite true! I forgot the elected official exception.

Sad thing is that Mexico is a beautiful land with abundant natural resources including some of the most beautiful women in the world but it's ruined by those who do nothing but stand by and watch it self destruct.

I suspect that self destruction may in fact be on the horizon if things don't change.

Viva la revolutio'n.

Gator Monroe
05-24-2011, 13:17
Amnesty is the answer ,& Drug legalization & and end to naitive-ist zenophobia ...:rofl:

Vigilant
05-24-2011, 14:01
Amnesty is NOT the answer, comrade. Mass deportation of all illegals is the answer.

Seal off the borders and close the safety valve, and things will get interesting south of the border.

Gator Monroe
05-24-2011, 14:04
Amnesty is NOT the answer, comrade. Mass deportation of all illegals is the answer.

Seal off the borders and close the safety valve, and things will get interesting south of the border.
Ditto that , notice the Rofl Emoticon ,(I was just looking at it from the non Racist Bigoted homophobic bleeding heart pro diversity at any cost Democrat Liberal Progressive POV) ...